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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Does that mean you've used K&N filters, and you prefer OEM's over them as well?
  • knapp3knapp3 Member Posts: 112
    I went to Mobil's e-store today to reorder some mobil 1 oil filters and see that Mobil closed its e-store in June. Then I checked the regular mobil web site and found that all the FAQ's regarding their filters were taken down too. Anyone know whats going on?
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    oil and filters at retail outlets now (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Autozone, and Advance Autoparts).
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    No, I haven't tried the K&N. I tried the Amsoil foam which I understand is different then the K&N. Based upon the hassle of cleaning, re-oiling etc. I don't think I will go that route again even with a K&N which many people swear by.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    They make good Air Filters. I was wondering how the oil filter compares to the Mobil1 High Efficiency oil filter.
  • wainwain Member Posts: 479
    does super tech have a web page?
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    It's been a couple of months since I was doing filter comparisons. But by my recollection, both the Mobile 1 and K&N are made by Champion Labs. You can look at both at Discount Auto Parts for one.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    You may in fact find that K&N filters are made by Champion. Walmart Supertech filters are a very good choice, made by Champion, and you don't pay extra to see K&N printed on the canister. Failing that, go to Kmart and get WIX filters with Castrol or Penske written on them. The savings are worth more than the thrill of the name! >:o?
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    They may in fact be no better but they are not the same. The wall thickness is thicker on the K&N. The element is also different. Whether the media is better-don't really know. I assume the efficiency is better on the Supertech. I know the K&N specifically bosts higher flows. I know a sucker is born everyh minute, but I am using them. I do use the Supertech in a few cars though.
  • fear_hopefear_hope Member Posts: 90
    I have a 99 Chevy Venture. I change the oil and filter every 3000K. We usually do it at home and in that case I use an OEM filter, and always dino oil. I noticed better gas mileage with Castrol 5W30 so that is what I have been using for the last 6 months. However, over the winter I had oil changes done at a shop that used Fram(yeah I know) oil filters. Last change I got 23.8 MPG. Now this past change we did it with same oil but OEM filter and I am only getting 21.3 MPG. Does anyone know if the brand of filter affects MPG, and does it really matter what brand filter is used when changes are done faithfully at 3000K. By the way I almost always use the same brand and type of gasoline. Thanks in advance!
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
  • fear_hopefear_hope Member Posts: 90
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Its also unlikely any one brand of oil delivers better than another. Since the new oil (SL) used some hydroprocessed base stocks. They may deliver some better gas milage similar to syns. Like maybe a couple of percent. Also better gas milage during Summer Months.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Don't forget that during the winter the gas is oxygenated and the diluted mix gets app 10-15% less gas mileage
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    If you change every 3000 miles you could go without a filter and it would make no difference
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes also in the SL testing there is a specific test that measures enhanced 4000 mile protection and of course remaining useful life. Also while buried in the fine print is that the SL oil can go up to 12,000 miles. This is a operative way of saying that oils with the SL or commodity rating ARE far superior!! Why anyone would consider less than 6,000 mile oil changes with the enhanced SL (vs SJ) is a mystery to me.
  • wainwain Member Posts: 479
    and of course what does Jiffy lube base the 3000 mile change on?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Marketing has nothing to do with it!!!
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ruking1

    A soon as I get 5K miles on the Chevron SL I'm currently running, I will do an analysis and post the results. This should give us a good idea just how long this stuff is good for.

    Wain

    Jiffylube's 3K oil change recommendation is based on one thing; making money!
  • wainwain Member Posts: 479
    when in America did the recommendation to change the filter every other oil change transform into "every change"???
    70s?
    80s?
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    No difference by armtdm
    I really think the filter does a lot, even when used only 3K. I remember several old cars that had no filter, and I recall overhauling some engines in my garage. Times change, and engines as well as oil are so different we cannot make direct comparisons. Yet, I guess I prefer to think that yeoman grade filters by the top providers do help increase engine life--
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Filter K&N SuperTech

    Cost $10 $2
    Type HP-2001 ST 3980
    Element Length 3.375 3.375
    # Pleats 59 53
    Quality Thinner Thicker
    Spring Single Leaf Double Leaf
    Inlet Holes 6 8 Larger Holes
    Shell Thickness .019"-.022" .013"-.016"

    AntiDrainback Both similar material, slightly different design

    Bypass valves None None

    These filters are the equivalent of PF-52

    Conclusions: I would Buy either. The element on the Supertech was more uniform spacing. Both are champion Labs. I basically like the heavier construction of the K&N-which is probably overkill.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote:"I basically like the heavier construction of the K&N-which is probably overkill."

    You are no doubt right on that. Nowhere in any of the online oil filter comparisons I have read, have they had a canister of any brand rupture. There was a seam leakage problem with one (can't remember the brand), but no canister failure due to thickness of the steel used.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    My perspective would be: Is one K&N an equal or better value than five Supertechs? This presumes that either will do at least an acceptable filtration job for the application under question.
    By the way, your unbiased, give-the-information approach on this comparo is excellent.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I have been advised that some FRAM motorcycle filters were observed rupturing/bursting under competition conditions, thus leading to them being banned for some time from various tracks and venues. I do not know this to be a fact, but did hear it from a personal friend who sells motorcycle parts.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    I also gave thought to competition, where some very high pressures are present. But I don't think that affects this discussion. Racers are much farther into this subject than we, as street users are.
  • maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    Great discussion. I have a Fram question. I agree that the Fram filters are poorly constructed compared to others on the market. However, does this mean they are a bad filter? For instance, if you have an engine where the filter is on the bottom (oil can not drain out), does it matter if the bypass valve works? Even though there are cardboard end-caps does this mean the filter media is inefficient or will fall apart?

    I have never used Fram (I usually use Purolator). The reason I am asking is it appears that some Honda filters are made by Fram. Why would Honda use substandard filters for OEM if other good, cheap options were available (like the Champion Supertech)? If Honda is using them can we assume they will perform well?

    I am not looking to pick a fight (seems some people really hate Fram). I own a Honda (actually two) and I am wondering if I should use the OEM filter on one of them.

    Thanks
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    The valve you are referring to is the "anti-drainback valve" which is located on the inlet of the filter. There is really no evidence that it is any worse or better than other filters. As was mentioned-if you change oil every 3K as many do (and Jiffy recommends) it really doesn't matter what kind of filter you use.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    adc100 is very close to right, in my opinion. If you split hairs, you can state a case for not using really poor quality filters. They could be so poor as to freely allow particulates to circulate that are known to be of a size (and abrasiveness) very detrimental to internal engine surfaces. In attempting to be very fair to Fram oil filters, I have wondered like you, if the cardboard end cap is really a problem or not. The idea is unappealing, but is there evidence that it is substandard for the task at hand? The motorcycle failure was related to the canister not tolerating the pressure developed under racing conditions and rupturing. Oil hit the track, and was a danger to oncoming racers. And the sudden loss of oil was probably not too good for the engine suffering it! >;^]
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    My truck use to have a lot of valve train noise at startup until oil thinned out, then I read about Fram filters causing the low flow. One day I just swapped out filters (did not change oil) and the noise did not occur again.
    I am not sure if the Fram filter was bypassing 100% and not allowing pressure buildup, or if it was NOT bypassing and obstructing flow, but either way it was definitely causing a noise that other brand filters never caused again.I use the supertech filters now, they seem to be the same as the Walmart version of the AC filters used to be.
    Anyone else have similar experience with the Fram filters?
    see y'all
    Rando
  • tntitantntitan Member Posts: 306
    some are Fram (the ones made in Canada) but most here in the states will have Filtech written on the cannister and are not Fram.
  • wainwain Member Posts: 479
    what caused the old recommendation to change oil filters every OTHER oil change to switch to Every oil change?

    when and why did that happen.

    hard to believe a filteris "full" at 3000 miles?????
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    It's sure enough full of dirty oil! That was always enough reason to keep me from having ever participated in the "every other" routine.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Quote:"hard to believe a filteris "full" at 3000 miles?????"

    For two or three dollars you are willing to leave a pint to a quart of dirty, and chemically (acid) damaged oil in your car when you put in three or four quarts of new clean oil? Not I.
  • wainwain Member Posts: 479
    most oil filters do not hold much oil, especially the small ones.
    then Consumer reports says ok to go long distances say 7.5k so whats so important about a filter every time. where is the data that says thats needed. it used to be every other. And that was when filters were bigger.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    You have a major good point. I have never left an old filter on a car when doing an oil change because it just goes against my nature to pour several quarts of new oil in the crankcase and let it mix with any more "old" or "dirty" oil than I have to. Yeah, at best, you are washing the walls down with your clean oil, but that is less distressing to me than leaving a filter full of "nasty old dirty oil" to mix with the clean stuff. >;o/
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Okay, I just spent about 2 minutes looking for the long-awaited 'search' feature on Town Hall. Is it the "Search Townhall by Keyword" field on the left-hand frame? If so, does that search only the topic names?

    I know this is a repeat, but can someone remind me who manufactures the Castrol Max Pro (white box) filters. I believe it's Champion Labs or Wix, but I can't remember which. I picked up 4 filters that fit our 98 Isuzu Trooper today at KMart for $2.50 each. I'm sure they were on clearance for less at the going-out-of-business locations, but I think I missed my chance on that.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Look down inside the threaded mounting hole, and you should see a metal tube with holes and a tell-tale embossing of a spiral. That spiral is a WIX identifier. The white-box Castrol filters retailed at $3.50 here, and were put on sale for $2.50. Like you, I am thinking that is a clearance, and they will not be available in the future. But then, what do we really know?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    Took your advice and switched from Fram to a Wal-Mart filter and there does seem to be less valve noise on start-up. Thanks for the tip.
  • maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    On one of my cars I use Purolater oil filters. I noticed that most of them have small paint chips, cardboard flakes (from the box) or dust in and around the threaded area (other brands seem to have this too). My assumption is the "dirty" oil goes in the center tube and comes out the side holes. If so, then the paint/cardboard/dust will be trapped in the filter. Do I have this right? Thanks for your help.
  • maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    Found out on another board that the oil comes in through the small holes, passes through the filter and exits through the large center hole. Looks like anything left in the large threaded tube will flow into the engine.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    But it's not a problem. The dust is minuscule in volume, in the larger scheme of things.
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    But I think you might tap it on your work bench to allow any large "anything" to fall out before installing filter!
  • wainwain Member Posts: 479
    I have purchased OE Toyota filters with a plastic piece celophane like glued over the filter to keep dirt out.
  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    Honda filters are wrapped in cellophane also. I quess this is just another quality control step by these manufacturers.
    Anyone else notice from referencing the NTPOG oil filter survey that most of the substitute filters didn't come close to the inlet area and filter media area of the 3 honda oem filters. I wonder if Honda is trying to emphasize oil flow rates?
    Keeping this in mind, whenever the dealer is out of the Filtech oem filter, I use the oversize wallyworld st3950 which comes close to the honda specs.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    the suggested super-tech no. filter for your car (saves me some cross referencing).


    And the link he referred to:


    http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml

  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    The Champion replacements are stp2808, mobil m1-104 and supertech st2808 (same as stp). The oversizes recommended in that survey were mobil m1-105 and stp3950 (st3950 at wallyworld).

    It's too bad we can't get the Japanese honda oem filter here. The Hamp looks good, but is expensive and hard to find.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    If you change your oil and filter regularly, the house brands at Kmart and Walmart are all the filter you could possibly need. I will usually avoid the very small filters for some applications, and look for larger canisters from alternative brands. If Champion or Wix makes the filter, I do not fear using it.
  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    Fleetwood: I'm not putting down those kmart and walmart brands, but because I plan on having this car in my family for 300k (handing car off to children later), I typically use the oem filters because of the apparent improved flow rate. The dealer parts people usually give $2 off coupons with each purchase so the price becomes resonable and comparable to buying online.
    Also, I use mobil1 10w30 and don't replace oil and filter until 6k.
    Like I said, I do use the supertech oversize filter when the dealer only has the canadian oem (Fram) in stock.
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