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Comments
If ordering a specific car that has to come from the manufacturer it is reasonable to put down a small good faith deposit BUT get a signed receipt with a signed statement (from management) that the deposit will be returned if the ordered car is not available in (FILL IN THE BLANK)____ weeks.
there are many NY locations. Hope you find
the deal you're after.
PH in LA
I logged the name into Google and the results were distressing.
Apparently, this is another dealer from hell. The people filing complaints have called the Fuccillo dealership the following terms of endearment: crooks, liars, thieves, can't be trusted, ripoff scam con men and other similar words of admiration.
Gotta love it. Actually, maybe Edmunds will rethink their policy to allow people to list their email address in the following format: "john jones at XXXX dot com." That has seemed to work in other forums while keeping auto spammers from picking up email addresses. (I know, off topic, sorry.)
Just click on Display Preferences on the left-hand side of the page, then mark your e-mail as public..
Go ahead.. you can do it..
thanks,
kyfdx
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I will tone it down.
When you read the complaint websites, line after line of dealer abuse, it makes me angry that this goes on year after year all over the country and nothing changes. Even with government intervention: penalties, fines, class action lawsuits, nothing changes. Auto dealers still do what they do best, play a game that is fixed against the consumer.
2007 Limited Sonata w/Ultimate package (w/pearl white powder exterior and floor mats):
MSRP: $25,630
Invoice: $23,464
Cash price: $22,500
Documentation: $45
Sales tax (8.75% - ouch!): $1972.69
License: $218
CA tire fee: $8.75
Subotal: $24,744.44
Rebate: -$1500
OTD: $23,244.44
Overall, it was a good experience and they didn't play any games with me. There was the required song and dance in the finance office, but I politely declined the extras and signed the papers. The car had been in stock 58 days according to their printout. They were trying to close out on a few cars at the end of the month and gave me the price without knowing about any other offers. I used the fax attack followed up with an email to the general sales manager and internet sales. :shades:
I'm pleased with my deal as it's way better than my first car purchase when I was young, naive, and didn't have much credit history. Live and learn.
As for my other offers...
I was quoted the same price for the same car from Sunnyvale Hyundai's Internet sales manager without telling them about my other offers. After calling the dealership to confirm stock and price yesterday, the general sales manager said he couldn't discount it that much. Too bad, so sad! :P
Cammisa Motorcars was willing to sell for $23,000 after they heard my lowest offer, but they didn't have my color preferences in stock and I wasn't comfortable playing the "give us a day or two to locate a car" game. :confuse:
As a backup in case the Concord Hyundai deal fell through, Stevens Creek Hyundai had quoted me $23,222 OTD for a black Limited Ultimate without knowing about any other offers.
I had some really good prices for silver Limited Platinum Editions, but my wife was very specific about color and only wanted red, black, or white exterior with grey or black interior (absolutely no beige). If it was up to me, I would've paid a little extra for the Platinum Edition and gotten a silver car.
Sligg, I've been reading your trials and tribulations for a while and wish you the best. Your car is out there!
BTW, you are, no doubt, as you said, older and wiser as you got a color that the little lady liked.
Hope can I get a little help calculating my OTD cost. But here's what I paid yesterday in Natick, MA.
Got price down on Black 07 Sonata SE V6 with beige interior, wood grain trim to $17,991 after rebates and getting dealers to bid against each other online thru their internet sales managers.
I paid 1,013 in tax, title, reg, doc fees. (5% tax on 12,991 due to 5,000 trade in).
If my idea of OTD is correct, that makes it $19,004 for my new car OTD? Fill me in!
So you really would have paid an additional tax on the $5K trade and at 5% that would be another $250. Your "true" OTD cost is $19,254
Do you follow me?
... how'd I do? 19,254 OTD for an 07? Good, bad, average? What's the average for everyone else? I'm seeing mostly averages for the Limited.
Thanks.
I just looked up invoice on a 2007 SE and found it to be $20,395. If you remove the $1500 rebate, that puts you at $18,894. If they removed dealer hold-back and advertising fees (which they did in my deal which amounted to over $1200 on my Limited), that will most likely get you down to the price you paid so YES, it does sound like a great deal.
I'm sure that others will chime in and let you know their thoughts on an SE model.
Best of luck to you my friend with you new car.
Did you buy the Fax Attack package or just send out faxes?
Did you wait for a response to the fax before you made contact via email?
Did you negotiate at the dealer or via email?
I wasn't aware that California sales tax 8.75% is higher than in NY 8.375%
When I attended the Auto show in NYC in April, Hyundai was giving a coupon for $500 discount to be applied to a Hyundai car purchase. I wonder if your recent LA car show did the same thing?
It depends in which county one resides. I live in San Bernardino County. I only pay 7.75%. This applies even if I buy a car in another county, which I have done many times. It's the county where you residence is located.
Congratulations to shiwala... you did better than my deal by $100, AND you got the more expensive pearl white paint.
My wife is the one - I suspect this is common - who insisted on the color combo (black with beige). If she's happy, everybody is happy. If she's not... watch out.
I didn't have a particular color preference.
Been driving the Sonata now for 4 days, and no problems.
Very pleased.
PH in LA
I bought the fax attack package and consider it money well spent. I sent my faxes on a Tuesday morning to 20 dealerships and only had 5 responses by noon on Wednesday. Disappointed with this, I started emailing the internet sales guys and in the end, I had 16 offers to compare. I negotiated via email/phone only.
Still getting resistance from some dealers in NYC area. They always want you to come to their dealership. But insist the deal has to be conducted via email/phone...then, the times are changing.
Good work Shiwala.
NONE available on the entire east coast, 4 local dealers told me....but....they are actually produced and sold in the midwest and west, the dealers tell me.
IS that true? My local dealer says I have to put down a deposit and "preference" the car, but now I am a little paranoid---does a stick shift even exist anywhere?? Maybe the local dealer wants to sell me "options", so is blocking me on my request for a stick shift until I agree to put options into the car.....anyway---
Anybody willing to do some casual research? If you can find out if a stick shift 07 GLS is actually on some dealer's lot, or they did see one once, I would be reassured that it does exist. Please don't put a lot into this---I won't actually be buying that particular midwest or west coast car----if I find out at least that it is true that they actually ARE being made, then I will have my local dealer "preference" one, it'll be shipped east, and I have faith I'll get it eventually......maybe even Christmas! :-)
peter van aken
I wonder how they are going to sell more cars if they dont give more incenvites for people to buy these cars.
Sales for Hyundai were down almost 15% this Nov, than last year.
It looks like the people who criticized Hyundai for their reliance on fleet sales to get people in the seats got their wish. Hyundai sharply reduced fleet sales of the Sonata in November.
Hyundai November Sales release
This may (or may not) indicate a beginning shift from a low margin/higher volume strategy towards a higher gross profit margin sales strategy. Time will tell.
Don't understand Hyundai's reasoning especially with a 14% drop in their sales of Sonata.
Dumb move.
Selling Price: $17,049
Doc Fee: $50.00
Tax: $1,069
Title & License: $143
Sub-Total: $18,311
Less:
Rebate - $1,000
Loyalty Coupon - $500
Total: $16,811
How does this figure shape up with others here on the board?? Interestingly, Edmunds.com shows the Invoice price including the two listed options and delivery charge as $18,449.
To put this another way... an Elantra GLS AT with mats lists for $16.6k and has only a $500 loyalty rebate. So you'd need to get a good discount on the Elantra to beat the price on the Sonata, which is a size class up from the Elantra and offers some more features such as power seat, trip computer, leather wheel/shifter etc.
P.S. Is this the Sonata with or w/o XM? XM adds $150 to the list price. Invoice w/o XM is $18,310. I noticed that Hyundai has pushed up the pricing on the Sonata besides adding $150 for XM. For example, the Preferred Package was $500, now it's $550.
The 14% is overall. And as for reasons, aside from the fleet reduction, the strike and the scandal also contributed to the decline, which greatly affected production.
Same trend will happen in December but the year should see a modest gain.
Selling Price $20,591
Doc: $50
Tax: $1,290
Title & License: $143
Sub-Total: $22,074
Less:
Rebate - $1,000
Loyalty Coupon - $500
Total: $20,574
According to Edmunds.com the Invoice is $21,759, thus there is factory-to-dealer money in this quote as well, above and beyond the rebate and loyalty coupon. This quote is not as good as the one given to me in September - $19,940 Total, and a $126 higher Selling Price. The new models with XM radio have also have a higher MSRP ($350 increase as per Edmunds.com). This quote is for one without XM, as is the GLS quote. Perhaps the $126 increase in selling price on this quote implies stronger demand in the Chicagoland area???
Are you sure about that? I checked on the Sonata GLS at Edumunds.com and it looked like a $150 increase for XM.
I don't know why the XM pricing would be higher on the Limited than the GLS. But, there's no doubt that Hyundai is slowly raising prices across the board, and reducing direct to consumer rebates. This could be good for all Hyundai owners in th long term. As you know, Honda typically doesn't offer direct to consumer rebates, but does offer factory cash incentives to the dealer. In fact, I received a quote last week on a 2007 Honda Accord SE for $100 over invoice - not bad, if one wants an Accord.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the model mid-cycle refresh occurs, most likely with the intro of the 2008 Sonata. Rumor has it that the center stack will be redesigned with the radio placed lower and the vents higher, along with some tweaks to the seats.
Are you going to pull the trigger on that 2007 GLS? It's a great price quote!
I keep cars for a looong time, and I'm a bit wary of the potential long-term maintenance costs on the V6 past the warranty period. The valve "shims" replacement/adjustment sounds like a financial horror story in the making. I know the Inline 4 Theta engine also uses the same, but changing out one bank of DOHC's to replace the shims is much easier, and less costly, than two! OTOH, the shims may never need adjustment, who knows? I use Mobil 1 synthetic, and stick to a rigid 3K/3mo oil change interval, so this may be a somewhat moot point.
Simple routine maintenance on a transverse V6 is much more difficult than on an Inline 4. (I know this personally, as I'm currently personally replacing the head gaskets on my Dodge Grand Caravan ES' 3.3L V6 - no fun!). Plus, the replacement price difference on the 17" tires on the Limited over the 16" tires on the GLS is very substantial. I like the leather interior on the Limited, but my wife has never liked leather - which makes the decision more interesting! So, it looks like it may be the GLS with the Premium Option.
It is a excellent price quote from Pugi. I may just have to get into my Elantra and take a hike up to Downers Grove before Christmas!
But, at least with the quote I received, it's better than most. The dealer has to make a reasonable profit, and the sales staff has to make a living. If not, why be in business in the first place? You can't make all of your income from the shop floor.
Now, using the same information, it certainly underscores how much extra those consumers buying Hondas and Toyotas are paying to the dealers up front. I've never know anyone who've stated they've purchased either significantly below the published factory invoice price.
My understanding is that the average mark up on most items one buys at retail is at least 100%.
And then (laugh)if you order a bottle of wine in a restaurant the mark up is more like >200%....and jewerly is way, way up there too.
Anybody know what the mark up is on other durables like refrigerators, ranges, etc.?
Curious.
FWIW, I have seen reports from quite a few HonYota buyers who paid well under invoice, due to mfg-to-dealer rebates (Honda and Toyota), mfg-to-consumer rebates (Toyota), and dealer discounts. It's a tough market out there.
The fact that this invoice price is so readily accessible to anyone has made me doubt the authenticity of the numbers. My conclusion: this number is nothing more than a conspiracy in the auto industry to deceive the car buying public.
There is not one other product where dealer cost is made known to the buyer. I bought an expensive HDTV and the salesman did not whip out the dealer cost sheet and he did not have to run off to the manager to get approval.
Remember...you don't buy a car, the dealer sells you a car only when you agree to his numbers.
When you think you have gotten a good deal you have been fleeced-some buyers more than others.
We have all been suckered.
Scam...scam...scam!
And you can bet there were many people who bought that HDTV for a lot less than you did.
Such is the nature of buying and selling. At least when you buy a new car, you have some data to go on. Not so with other major purchases. If it pains you to think that the published invoice data is inaccurate, just don't use it! Then you'll be in the same position as you are in when you buy other goods such as HDTVs. And you will be blissfully unaware of how much you have been fleeced.
From Bill of sale:
Price of car 18593
doc fee 57
6.75% tax 1259
plates/title 80
total 19989
rebate -1000
balance due 18989
bought on 12/02/2006
Howard Hyundai, Elmhurst IL
Email negotiated price.
the Illinois Department of Revenue says that "manufacturer to customer rebates" are to be applied BEFORE the calculation of sales tax.
Here's my math on the 2007 Sonata Limited Standard quote you mentioned:
Selling Price $20,591
Doc: $50
Less:
Rebate - $1,000
Loyalty Coupon - $500
Sub-Total: $19,141
Tax: $1,196.31
Title & License: $143
(isn't this really 65 title+85 reg = 150 for IL? :confuse: )
Total: $20,480.31 :shades: ($94 less)
What do you think?
In general should one correct that sort of thing before or while you go in to sign papers?
New title/registration and license cost me $143 in December 2005.
Yes, the final numbers should be agreed upon by both parties before you sign the papers.
Hyundai might be a good car and a good value but it will never challenge Toyota/Honda/Nissan.
I repeat,it was a dumb move by Hyundai to lower the rebate. If Hyundai removed the rebates, how many cars would they sell? Probably none. I'm now looking at other brands so I don't know if I'll buy a Hyundai. Hyundai is not the perfect car. Reading the forum, the Sonata certainly has its share of problems not that other brands are trouble free.
Buying a new car is always a dilemma.
However, they evidently increased the manufacturer-to-dealer money, hence the dealer will end up giving you much more than the differential in the rebate.
This is exactly what Honda does. Does Honda ever have many rebates, and if so, how much? But, what Honda does do is give the dealers substantial amounts of manufacturer-to-dealer incentive money, especially at this time of the year. This is one tactic to enhance resale values - offer no or little rebates, but offer manufacturer-to-dealer money. Hyundai is now doing the same, which I personally think is a good move.