Fuel and Oil Additives

gregoryc1

Define "personal attacks"!---- A work boat is very different than a pleasure boat. I own a 27' Doral cruiser with a 7.4 MerCruiser V8 & a Bravo 3 I/O drive. The minimum planing rpm for this boat is 3200 rpm. At that rpm the boat is only doing about 20 mph. The hull is very heavy! You admit that you use "Seafoam", so what is the problem? In four cycle engines "Valve and Combustion Chamber Deposits" are more fuel related than they were in the past, and as such, they are much harder. The engines are built to tighter tolerances, and the valves are exposed to less oil through the valve guides. There is also a lack of lubrication in the fuel. In the past oil would leak, and / or be drawn through the valve guides and cause deposits in the combustion chamber. Two cycle outboards run products like "carbon guard" to keep the combustion chamber free of carbon, and the rings free on the pistons. Manufacturers like OMC, Mercury, & Yamaha, recommend the use of a fuel additive to control this carbon build up problem. At 3200 rpm the 7.4 Marine engine is working much harder than is land based cousin. In addition, the quality of the fuel at some marinas is questionable, as compared to the quality of the fuel at land based filling stations. If you think that a "fuel additive" is not important that is "ok". Don't use it! But remember, that is your opinion, and as such, it doesn't mean that there isn't a need for it in the fuel!

Mr_Shiftright

I think what we are saying is that additives make more sense in marine use than automotive use, because those of us with boats know intuitively that boat engine maintenance is much more intense than car engine maintenance.

 

The skull-crushing argument against additives in cars (for me, anyway), is that modern cars rack up incredibly long mileages without a whisper of an additive added beyond that from the fuel and the regular engine oil. That observable fact sort of stopped me in my tracks years ago from advising the use of additives anymore.

imidazol97

repair talk show that a failure rate of 25 times the usual rate for injectors has been reported. The reason seems to be reformulated gasolines. The alcohol is causing problems with injects. I didn't heard where he had gotten the report.

 

Does anyone know where this is reported? I feel better since I've avoided the alcohol-based fuels as much as I can at stations.

Mr_Shiftright

As Carl Sagan once said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

imidazol97

I said that I didn't hear the credit for the information. I'll email the expert who does the program and see. He doesn't return emails; he calls people who email him with their car problem.

0patience

A while back, GM and Ford both had some information about reformulated or oxygenated fuels and the affects on the injectors.

I thought I posted something about it a long time ago, but can't find it.

 

This affected mostly californian vehicles, since California uses reformulated fuels quite a bit.

I'll try and see if I can find the information again, but that was a few years ago and my memory isn't that great.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes I knew you weren't making the claim or able to identify it. Great idea to always try and track down the evidence for this type of statement. Might be true, might not. I haven't researched it either.

 

Shifty the host

badgerfan

Here in Milwaukee recently there was a flap that made the news about increased rates of fuel injector failures which began about the time the oil companies switched over to winter blends. Seemed to affect GM and Honda vehicles more than others.

 

Later on GM's issued a report and conclusion was it was caused by sulfur compounds depositing on the injectors. This supposedly happened more-per local newspaper investigation-to people who bought Citgo brand gas.

 

I haven't read anything since a few weeks ago, and our Ford Taurus and Dodge Caravan both swallowed the Citgo and any other brands we bought during that period without a whimper, so it didn't affect me.

Mr_Shiftright

You know, without some hard science behind it people are just passing their anecdotes and opinions. Someone would have to test this out and that's a lot of trouble and expense to do. You'd have to test injectors side by side, over long periods of time, with and without the various additives. You'd also have to determine what exactly is failing in the injectors themselves.

andyman73

or just a fairytale,

 

I use straight additives, no gas, car runs like greased lightening, till the motor burns up. shoots flames outta tailpipes, scratches with each gear shift, leaves great clouds of mosquito spray everywhere I go!!!

 

Ok, enough story telling. Just wanted to change the pace a little.

shipo

"...car runs like greased lightening..."

 

Greased with oil of snake. ;-)

 

Best Regards,

Shipo

andyman73

Almost choked on my "Milky Way" with that one, Shipo! LOL!!!

 

Still chuckling(not choking) on that one.

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

highroller

Does anyone know if i should add fuel system cleaners first or after every oil change. And what's the best fuel system cleaner in the market right now, Chevron Techron or STP? Can someone compliment on this thanks.

Mr_Shiftright

Use BGK44 every 6 months or so...anything else that you buy off the shelf is probably a waste of money in my opinion. Techron and STP, in the concentrations you get off the supermarket shelf, isn't strong enough to clean a gnat. You could probably drink it (but DON'T!).

I *think* they make a stronger version of techron that is quite a bit more expensive (as is BGK44). You get what you pay for in other words.

tntitan

If you want one that works go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and check out Fuel Power.

Mr_Shiftright

My theory is that if it doesn't burn your skin and sizzle through metal, it isn't worth using (just kidding, but you get the point).

highroller

How much are these additives?

Mr_Shiftright

I think around $15.

dialm4speed

Has anyone tried this Blue Sky stuff? Supposedly improves your gas mileage, reduces smog and prolongs engine life.

Mr_Shiftright

Nothing in a can improves your gas mileage unless it's more gas IMO. "Blue Sky" is an amusing name since it is slang for "all sizzle and no steak" or something like that.

highroller

So basically, fuel/oil additives are really unnecessary correct mr_shiftright? i would like to know which one reallyy works for the engine and gas tank. Any comments on this?

Mr_Shiftright

No that's not what my opinion is exactly...it's more like "fuel additives can do what fuel additives can do but no more than that".

They can:

keep injectors from clogging(maybe)
clean a clogged injector (maybe)
take water out of gas
stabilize fuel
lubricate upper cylinder area
kill algae in diesel tanks

things like that are possible, though really bad cases of the above probably cannot be cured from a "dose".

What the CAN'T do is:

improve gas mileage
extend engine life
repair a defective engine
raise compression

All of the above three claims have fallen down under strict laboratory scrutiny.

I suppose you could say that if the fuel additive unstuck a sticking injector then it "improved fuel mileage" in a weird kind of way, but only because a dead cylinder was re-activated.

andyman73

BGK44, who carries it? Pep boys, autozone..etc?

Thanks.

qbrozen

I've never found it in the store, but YMMV. The best price I've seen is on Ebay.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the really "serious" auto parts stores would have it, like NAPA, but if not, you can buy it from most foreign car repair shops I think. That's where I get it, from my friend's Porsche shop.

It fixed up my Benz diesel pronto, which was idling badly due to one clogged up injector.

You have to differentiate between fuel additives that are for "maintenance" (to keep clean things clean) and for "correction" (to make dirty things clean. Those are two separate animals.

You aren't going to get anything "corrective" for $2.99.

highroller

Can this work for any vehicle?

Mr_Shiftright

Far as I know but of course read the disclaimers on the can.

sequoiasoon

Only places I found are dealerships and some independent repair shops. Contact BG (www.bgprod.com) for the local/regional rep. I did and he gave me a list it was most of the Toyota dealers, many of the local Honda, Infiniti, Acura, and Nissan dealers. Some had it on the parts shelves most use it for their "in house" services and will sell if you ask. So if you go to your local Infiniti dealer and get the $200 fuel injector cleaning and $175 tranny flush know that they are using the BG products and equipment, why, because it works well. If you spend that amount of $$ at the dealer you would not be satisfied with "we did all this but you won't notice any difference for your money, trust us.....it is actually working much better now(yeah right!)" When you leave after spending a bunch of $$ and can tell your friends that BigBuck Infiniti made a HUGE difference in my cars performance that I can feel blah blah blah and you should definitely have it done then you know it works. I got at least a dozen family/friends using BG once a year after I told them my experience (which they respect). They tried it and noticed the same thing and now ask me to buy it for them when I go to the dealer (co-worker family gets me dealer cost)

armtdm

My rpoblem with BG is that it is marketed as a cure all ofr everything. Furthern many dealers, (via a nice agreement with BG) inlcude it with every service and charge the customer for it without even asking if it is wanted. Unethical marketing on the part of the dealers and BG,

Does it work, don't know but I do not like the way it is marketed, it smacks of snake oil. Ask them what nationally recognized lab did the testing that they talk about, Any reputable lab would love to have it s name thrown around maybe results are confidential but the name of the lab, let's have them?

Mr_Shiftright

It won't always work, it depends on how bad the problem is. But it's strong enough to have a "chance" to work, which is more than you can say for stuff in the supermarket. I can only comment upon the perhaps coincidental situation of having my Benz diesel run like crap, pouring this stuff in, and 15 minutes later it was fine and remained fine. The second coincidence was in Highway 5 when my 928 started chugging uphill...poured some in and it was fine after that, too. Happened right after a fill up, so coulda been a bit of water, who knows. It ain't science but I'm happy.

sequoiasoon

"My rpoblem with BG is that it is marketed as a cure all ofr everything." Funny because I had never seen any advertising for them. My experience was from word of mouth. My Dad trained auto mechanics for a living before retiring and had many contacts. My Ford Exploder was pinging all the time. I had tried tune up(plugs wires filters), techron and stp, premium gas, all with no help. One of his friends recommended a couple things (octane plug on fords ecu system etc.) After those he recommended a 'de-carbonizing" of the engine. I gave it to him to try. He did the borescope with videotape before and after he cleaned. There was A LOT of carbon build up in the motor. He used his cleaners did the full treatment, replaced my new Bosch plugs with Motorcraft, my K&N with NAPA gold paper, cleaned MAF and TB, and gave it back to me with the videotape and no more ping (and a bill with all the costs scratched out saying "we owe your dad this and more"). Ping never returned and I watched the video and was shocked at how clean it was after.

My Corolla 5 speed was having problems shifting at high RPM and on downshifts. It would grind lightly as if the synchros were slightly out but was getting worse. I had 3 shops check and all pretty much said that they'd have to rip it apart to find whats wrong which would be big $$. My neighbor who is an A mechanic at a BMW dealer recommended BG Synchro Shift. They used it at the dealer for the cars that were exhibiting the same type of issues and noticed huge improvements. I had changed my GL-5 gear lube every year any way before that. I figured $50 bucks in gear fluid couldn't hurt as a last try. I contacted BG with questions and the rep said that their fluid was a 75w-80 synthetic GL-5 instead of the 75W-90 and gave me the local rep# as well as sending info on that and the 44K. He said that I could find it at many of the local dealers. I had my shop put it in expecting nothing, hoping for a miracle. Left the shop and noticed ZERO difference and was like, oh well and drove the mile back to my house. Next day I went to work (23 miles away) and downshifted as I always do and SURPRISE, NO GRIND!!! I started from the light and went to 5500 rpm in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all with zero grind. With a big ear to ear grin I get back ion the highway and try some more higher speed downshifts all smooth. Would Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 gear lube all have done the same thing? Maybe, but 4 years and at least 50k later I still have no grind so I'm sticking with it. Next I had bought some of the 44K just because of positive experience from the fluid. One tankful later my mileage went up, definitely more power, and ran smoother (I fill up and write down miles and gallons and maintenance every time for all my cars so checking is real easy, dad's fault). This was after at least semi annual Techron treatments with no noticeable difference, I figured it was already clean and I was just maintaining which I was ok with, wrong! Bought more for me and family/friends who had same results. When I drive on a trip or concentrate on "normal" driving I still get excellent mileage (33+ mpg on my almost 190K, 1993 Corolla) Unfortunately my mileage is normally less as I'm in traffic some, either that or it's the full throttle, 5500 rpm, 1-2-3 very smooth shifts, hmmm I wonder.

I've only seen one dealer by me advertising the BG products in their flyers. All the rest you have to ask if they have it and then they volunteer the info and you see the BG equipment in their shop. I've NEVER seen a sales flyer, TV ad, or magazine info on the stuff, or found it in any "chain" auto stores. The prices at my dealer are the same as all the rest of the local shops for tranny and other fluid flushes as well as Fuel Injection cleanings. Granted just my experience but since I never saw ANY marketing it would be hard to say it was marketed as the cure all.

I had asked the mechanic who fixed the Exploder if he had ever heard of BG and what his thoughts were if he did. His reply was "what do you think I used on your Explorer with a big smile"

armtdm

They sponsor a local TV auto call in show in my area and every caller gets the recommendation to add BG to the fuel to cure something or as preventative maintenance.

Mr_Shiftright

Someone just sent me literature on some kind of little electronic chip device you stick on the OUTSIDE of your gas tank, and then you get 10-20% better fuel mileage by doing that. It "realigns" the gas molecules.

right.

I'll post the website later.

highroller

Does anyone know if I can get a good fuel additive at a local store such as pepboys, autozone, napa, or oreilleys? I've tried looking for the BGK44 at Napa's but dey dun carry it here in Dallas,Texas. I suppose they only carry these products at some dealerships. I was wondering if the Chevron Techron complete fuel system cleaner is as strong as the BGk44 product. Can someone please comment on this and let me know thanks alot.

andyman73

Thanks for the www dot com addy. I just looked them up, and found 2 dealers in 25 mile range of me. One only 1.5 miles away, a little service shop and car wash. I will be getting my first dose of BG44K this week! I am quite interested in seeing what the results will be.

Mr_Shiftright

Let us know if there are any miracles, so we can bring the sick to be healed

andyman73

Shifty, you're too much! Best laugh I had all day. And yes, I will keep you in touch for miracles. And I'll let you know if Jesus is in the area too!

Mr_Shiftright

As I mentioned, I dosed my Benz with the stuff and it worked like in ten minutes...it was miraculous...or coincidental perhaps? Certainly worth a shot to avoid expensive repairs!

andyman73

just a little cleansing boost, kinda like them "Hollywood" types going for their annual anema, just to clean them out! LOL!

I just took over the car from the wife, and put Mobil 1 in right away. And now I want to give it some "supplements". To boost the health and such.

I will also use this experience to judge whether or not to buy some, as gifts, to some favorite family members.

highender

so what is this BG 44 ?

do you add it to the gas tank or engine ?

should it be put into new cars ? or just cars with problems ?

thanks...

Mr_Shiftright

It goes into the gas tank. I don't ever recommend putting anything in your engine oil. You can use BGK44 for maintenance or to solve a problem.

highroller

Is there a difference between the BG44K Advanced Formula and the BG44K Power Enhancer? I bought a can today at a local nissan dealership. the can was the power enhancer, but I've seen many other cans that have the advanced formula. My car has been idling pretty rough for awhile now and I figured it wouldn't hurt to try this product. I'm just wondering if both(Advanced Formula or the Power Enhancer) performs the same or one is likely to be better then the other. Any response or comment on this?

Mr_Shiftright

Gee I don't know. Anybody?

And let us know if the car improves.

highroller

Thanks for all the advices Mr_Shiftright. You really helped me maintain my car in good condition. As for the idle problem, the BG44K resolved it! Haha wow it really is a miracle. I have to say that I've been using STP products for about 4 months now. STP products include gas treatments to fuel injector/carbeurator cleaners and to complete fuel system cleaners. I've used these products constantly and according to their schedule but my car was still idling pretty rough at the time. I'm not trying to say that the STP products don't work but BG44K sure works for me so far. (I started drinking the leftover STP products because i have no use for them any more and im always thirsty here in hot Texas; taste like sprite haha jk don't drink it people.)My honda accord had been idling for a couple of months, sometimes rougher than other days. I dont know why though. But after yesterday when i pour a can of BG44K in, theres no more rough idling. If someone know if theres a fuel additive comparison test somewhere on the web let me know! i would really like to know more about these stuff like BG44K vs Lucas vs Seafoam vs Techron vs STP and etc.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I very pleased to hear that.

Shifty the Host

andyman73

on Thursday, dumped it in, and ran to the nearest fuel dispensary. So, any changes yet? Well, I noticed that it starts a little quicker in the early morning, with the colder temps. Also idles smoother in the cold/hi idle stage. The fuel mileage seems to be up, but too early to tell, yet.

I will update as we go along. Does seem a little peppier. Course, my car wasn't a basket case goin in...so...we'll see.

With tax, cost me @18 clams.

Mr_Shiftright

One new injector costs a lot more than that.

andyman73

that, Shifty, I'm sure they will charge more than that to tell you that you need a new injector!

Still runnin on the 1st tank with BG44K mixed in. With my work schedule and overall lack of useless driving, be later next week before I refuel.

I all ready like the fact it starts quicker in the cold.

Mr_Shiftright

I think after hearing all these testimonials that I'm going to dump a can in my car, just for the hell of it!

highroller

Still with my BG44K also, fuel mileage is still up and car feels and runs smoother! I usually have rough idling and nasty car feelings when i drive for more than 30 minutes or so but so far so good for my BG44K experience. I can dig this. Can you dig it? lol