Mazda6 Sedan

jstandefer

I'm glad to hear you are enjoying your car! Please keep an eye on the rust issue... Mazda claims the problem has been fixed at the factory and all vehicles with a build date of 7/03 and higher should not have the rust problem. Keep us informed!

windchime

I was informed by my dealer service manager that Mazda will definitely fix the rust and that a solution will be ready in about a month. (Gallery Mazda, Norwood, MA)

carguy58

Because the US companies can pay workers overseas less money than an American Worker. Whenever you see a product now it always made in China or something like that.

I should note the Accord and Camry have had their teething problems their first year out and those plants aren't unionized. I have seen people with people post that they have had problems with Accord's that were made in Japan even. The only thing I worry about with unions in the Automotive world is the health care and pension plans they make the Domestic Big 3 pay out and the debates about what plants you can close and what plans you can't close. Where I live in NJ Hyundai was thing about making cars in Edison, New Jersey where Ford is making their pick-up trucks but Hyundai couldn't offord to pay those workers the money Ford was paying them. Hyundai is now making a new plant in Alabama. I don't know whats going to happen when Ford stops making pick-up trucks in Edison, NJ and the plant closes up in a couple years.

jstandefer

I got a call from my service manager yesterday. He called to tell me that he did send in his rust report on my car, which he personally looked over. He also stated that he was participating in a region-wide teleconference with Mazda and other dealerships regarding the rust issue. I'll have to hound him to see what he has learned.

flypaper

Got mine the other day for my 6s I bought in June. Nice gesture, although the touch-up paint doesn't do anything for my nice new door dent. Is it too much to ask for people NOT to hit your car when they open their doors? It really is amazing (end rant).

Also did a quick rust check this morning -- none visible on door (have Sepang) but will try the q-tip test later.

chikoo

How can the Q-tip be of any help? It is too thick to enter any gaps in the door.

BTW, the paint is nice and thick on my door frames. And no rust.

mazda6s

What is your build date? Wait, your profile still says you have a Pro.

vocus

Chikoo has both a Protege ES and the 6.

shov6

So build dates of 07/03 and later are supposed to be alright? That's the date on my car, so I guess I shouldn't have to worry....?

stickguy

if the 7/03 cars are OK, that means Mazda obviously knew about the problem (since the corrected it) before all the to-do started on the internet boards, and people started showing up at the service department.

Hopefully it is really a superficial issue that can be easily fixed, and they throw owners a bone or 2 (free service and a gift card) + extend the warranty to lifetime on the doors.

That should take the sting out of resale, not that most consumers will know about this years down the road (if the problem is resolved correctly).

Plus, if they really did cure the problem at the factory, I can once again consider the 5 door when it comes out (although the 3 looks like a winner also).

mazda6s

Or maybe when they found out about the problem they went back and found out the reason it happened and were able to determine why it happened, and when it started and stopped. For example, personnel, process or materials (or suppliers) could have changed.

glideslopes

When was the 2 month period they shut down production due to claimed excess inventory?

I thought it was 6/03 and 7/03? I'm wondering if some major changes in the primer process were undertaken during the shut down?

shov6

Mine very clearly says it was produced in July, so I can only assume that the plant was not closed in that month.

johnclineii

Pardon me for snoozing, but how is it we KNOW that the problem has been located and newer examples are not afflicted with it?

caliatenza

I checked on my car for the rust (its performance white) and i didn't find any. I also looked in the trunk too, just dirt, no rust. My build date is 1/03. Other than that, my car has been great! Everyone, here at my college, is simply amazed whenever they sit in or take a ride in my car. Heck, it still has the new car smell (just over 4000 miles on the clock).

audia8q

ok....I can't say much until Mazda makes an official statement but, the issue was production related and fixed. There is a fix for current owners coming in short order. I will pass along the offical info when I get it late this week.

Rich

johnclineii

Thanks, audia8q. Although I like to rib you from time to time, your participation here is both invaluable and appreciated!

mazdafun

That's good news.

chikoo

is 06/03.
arrived at dealership from Factory on 08/04/2003.

how much time does it take to ship the car from Factory to Dealer?

Rich?

mazda6s

I think it usually takes a couple of weeks. Most go by rail and then by truck. But it could sit in a depot somewhere for a while.

midwesttrader

Found this on another forum;

From: Technical Services Dept (Mazda)
Sent: Tuesday, October 21st, 2003 10:40 a.m.
To: All Dealers All Regions - OF; All Dirs All Rgns-SR
Subject: Mazda 6 Door Sash Rust

Importance: High

Mazda North American Operations is aware of 2003 Mazda 6 surface rust/staining, mostly on the door sashes, and is currently investigating the issue and working on a solution. Detalied repair procedures and warranty information will be sent to you by October 31, 2003.

If Mazda 6 customers come into your dealership before October 31 with a concern about door rust, please let them know Mazda is aware of the situration and is developing repair prodcedures. We recommend taking customers' names and contacting them to schedule an appointment when repair procedures become available.

We appreciate your cooperation and support in this matter. Thank you for your commitment to customer satisfaction and "Fix-It-Right-The-First-Time."

Mazda North American Operations
Quailty Group
Technical Services Department

glideslopes

I spoke to Mazda USA this afternoon to see if any new information was available. The person I spoke with was surprisingly forth coming with details. They explained to me that the problem was with the "soap solution" not being fully washed off the metal components during the cleaning prior to priming. The procedure has been changed. They stated that Mazda was not looking at simply re painting the areas as a solution. Mazda wanted a more permanent solution. What ever that means.

A few things concern me:

1) When did Mazda find out? Surely if cars after 7/03 are ok then something was changed in 6/03. Correct? We know there was a period that the plant was shut down.

2) The wording in the above post such as "mostly in the door sashes" makes me very nervous. When I pushed the person on the phone to say it was only the doors that were affected, they would not confirm.

3) What other metal was cleaned with the same procedure? Are we seeing the rust on the sashes first due to the thinness of the paint in that area?

4) Unless Mazda can prove to me that only the doors were cleaned with the faulty process I'm going to assume the entire car was improperly cleaned prior to the priming. I think everyone else should do the same.

I don't think anyone should settle for anything less than a buy back offer. I would buy another 6s in a heartbeat. What do we do if Mazda extends the corrosion warranty? Bring our cars in for touch up painting every year or so? Even factory painted doors won't match. I certainly do not want my 6s re painted with new doors by a dealer.

Sorry for the diatribe, but my phone call really set me off.

Mark.

chikoo

about the thinness of paint to Mazda. I would not accept thin paint on my door frames. Mine are nicely painted BTW.

jstandefer

I thought the soap solution was used as a lubricant to aid the installation of the weatherstripping? Now, it was the cleaning process prior to the metal being primed? I'm confused. Heck, Mazda is confused!

Perhaps a 20/20 special can fish the real story out... man, this is a roller coaster ride! Up and down, up and down. Unfortunately, it's a $20k+ roller coaster ride!

aromas

Anybody who wants a buyback will get it, as long as you promise to buy another 6. I have no problem with that, I'd rather have the hatch. You're gonna have to scream like a banshee to get it though. They could sell the car you traded in at a reduction to fleets. Cost wise for Mazda it's probably cheaper to have you trade in for another 6 than to replace doors and repaint. It's a better PR move as well as it shows that Mazda is serious about keeping their customers happy.

I'm not a bodyshop pro but any scrape and repaint solution is not gonna be permanent. There's no way they can get into those welded areas, at least to my satisfaction. I don't think Mazda knows how effective that would be and I don't wanna be a guinea pig. I can't wait to see what their "fix" is. This board will be hopping the next few months, should be fun.

microrepair

aromas: You are right in saying that there is no permanent fix for the welded areas. 20 years ago I was an engineering supervisor at a large computer company and we stopped spotwelding our cabinet panels together when we started seeing "bleedout" at the flanged areas. It was due to the cleaning chemicals never being completely flushed out prior to plating or painting. From that point on we used nuts and bolts (or captive fasteners) or designed the panels to interlock together mechanically. That way each piece of sheet metal could be properly cleaned and painted without any danger of bleedout or rust at the joints.

The permanent fix for the MZ6 may well be to buyback the car...

buggywhip

It seems more likely that the rust was indeed caused by a soap solution used prior to door rubber installation. The affected areas are too localized to be anything else. I doubt it was a primer problem that affected the entire car's painting process. Mazda would be in deep trouble if that were the case............but how to fix?? Repainting the affected areas seems the only way. But a buyback would be the only truly honorable way.

baggs32

I posted this over in the 6 "problems" board when I first heard about the soap. It's just speculation but I guess it could be true.

"If I recall correctly the rust is forming where two separate pieces of the door meet, right? If so, maybe a "soapy" lubricant was applied where those two pieces meet to aid the robots welding process in that the pieces would gain a better fit if they could slide together more easily. After the welding process, the lubricant was not removed and then paint was applied over it.

I know it's far fetched but it's just another way to look at what jbah's Mazda reps told him. It would also explain how the rust is forming from underneath the paint if in fact the "soap" statement is true.

Mazda's "soap" theory may be right but we just don't have all the details yet."

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that all those with rust will be hearing something soon. I know I'd be writing to Mazda every single day if I had a brand new car with rust.

wleonard

Just got of the phone with MNAO. They have a bulletin that is similar to the earlier post with two differnces (date affected is major).

The cause of rust was due to an additive in a soapy solution the plant used to facilitate the installation of the weather stripping.

This has cause minor surface rusting where the "spiked" soapy solution came in contact with sheet metal.

Mazda "realized" the problem and removed the additive to the solution (they still use soapy solution for stripping install).

**This additive was removed and vehicles not affected Post JULY 22 !! Not early July as reported earlier.

Check your MFG dates.

Call MNAO 1800 222 5500 and talk to Sid x1159 or Todd x1187

Sad that I was calling regarding the buyback return of my RX-8 for HP and MPG issues.

Mazda keep shooting themselves in the foot.

jstandefer

MPG issue in the RX-8? What type of mileage were you getting? Rotaries certainly are not known for their fuel efficiency. Manual tranny RX-8's are only rated at 24 mpg freeway, which usually means more like 20-22 unless you have the cruise set at 55 mph on perfectly level ground.

I'm still not buying the soapy solution excuse for the rust. It doesn't make sense. This solution would have to eat through the paint, primer, and galvanization (if any) to expose the sheet metal for rusting. Our doors still have fairly intact (poor quality, but intact) paint.

baggs32

"I'm still not buying the soapy solution excuse for the rust. It doesn't make sense. This solution would have to eat through the paint, primer, and galvanization (if any) to expose the sheet metal for rusting."

Man, what happens if you get that "soap" on your skin?!

bob08857

I just got back from the service dept. to check a CEL I got this morning. The service rep told me that they've been getting a few 6s coming in with a misfire code on cold starts. He suggested I use a higher grade gas, i.e. move up to Plus. He pulled the plug from the cylinder that read the misfire, and while still good, it showed some white residue. This has me a bit concerned, as one of the attractions to this car was that it was specifically rated for Regular. Has anyone else had this issue with the V6, and was given similar advise? I wonder if it's a Cold Weather issue, as this was the first cold morning in the northeast. I'll give their suggestion a try.
I took the opportunity to check a couple of 6's on the showroom for the dreaded rust problem. My car was produced at Flat Rock on 02/03 and I haven't seen any evidence of the problem, BUT, I did plainly see rust on the White 6s with a build date of 06/03 in the weatherstripping channel. Both the sales staff & service manager stated that they hadn't heard a thing about the problem. The second car was a Redfire 6s with a build date of 08/03 and NO sign of rust. No word from anyone on how the rust issue will be addressed. Thank God for the internet (or Al Gore) for making me aware of the issue.

markjenn

CELs are very common these days - I wouldn't change fuel grades or do anything drastic when you get a single one that goes away after a reset. Sounds like the service people are just making a random suggestion. Drive on and see what happens.

- Mark

fowler3

a Mazda6-i costing less than a Mazda3-s? The prices have been posted on Mazda's web site and a MZ3-s equiped like a MZ6-i with AT and AC, same engine, would cost $22,400!

fowler3

stickguy

for 22,400, you must be looking at a 3 with HID lights and the Nav system, both of which the 6 won't have. I don't think you can get a normal light 3 over 20K (at least not the sedan).

mazda6s

OK, you got my curiousity up, so I did the math.

However, to get the same engine you have to get the MZ3s, so that has to be included in the comparo. Anyway, once you equip the MZ3i comparable to the MZ3s there's only about $700 difference, so IMO you'd have to be nuts to get the MZ3i, unless you realy don't care about the stuff in the 1PP package.

Here's how they compare:

MZ3i
base $13680
AT1 $900
AC1 $850
1PP $1190 (power pkg. with alloy wheels)
dest $520
total $17140

MZ3s 4-door
base $16405
AT1 $900
dest $520
total $17825

MZ6i
base $18750
AT $850
alloy wheels $400
dest $520
total $20520

This may not be the way you would equip yours, but this shows the pricing with the roughly the same equipment. Sure you CAN equip a MZ3 to be more than a MZ6, but not with comparable equipment. If the way they packaged the MZ6i options means you can equip one for less than a MZ3s, then it could in fact be less expensive for you to go that route. If you can live without power windows and such (and don't mind the smaller engine), the MZ3i could be a better choice for you.

jstandefer

As I updated my site with Mazda3 information, I found that a fully loaded Mazda3s hatchback tops out at $23,045 with all available options, not including accessories. However, it has xenon HID headlights, leather, moonroof, SAB/SAC/ABS/EBD, navigation system, tire pressure monitoring system, 17" alloys (standard), 6-disc changer, sport AT, sport package (standard), red/blue electroluminescent gauges (standard), and electro-hydraulic rack and pinion steering (standard).

To get a Mazda6i with all of that, it would cost a whopping $25,165 and it still doesn't have the 6-disc changer (not available with moonroof), xenon headlights, navigation system, tire pressure monitoring system, and electro-hydraulic steering. The 3 is actually quite a bargain, and it is not that much smaller, noisier, or less refined. In fact, the suspension components come right off the 6! And the 3's lower weight will give it better handling and better performance compared to the 6i.

ian2

Just a few weeks after getting my 6 back from the shop, I'm now facing another insurance claim. I inadvertently bumped into a car in front of me this morning. Low speed, minor scratches, but the other car happens to be a Carrera4S. 8 years of driving without any claims and now I get two in two months, on top of people running me off the road, almost hitting me going down the wrong way of the street plus another near miss with a guy driving with no lights in the night... I'm starting to think that my car is cursed. Time to get a new car, maybe?

bean3422

I never immediately take my car to the dealer...if it is a minor problem you can usually disconnect your battery for about 5 minutes. When you connect it back up, it will send the computer into a reset mode. This usually takes away any check engine lights. (this also resets radio presets, etc, so be careful!)

Now if it is a persistent problem, or something is really wrong, then the light will come back on. Then you definitely want to high-tail it to the dealer.

To date, on my Mazdas, I have never had one come back on the second time (at least not for tens of thousands of miles.)

My brother's Mustang was a different story...we tried resetting it, and it immediately came back on. Sure enough, a $400 dealer bill was fairly quickly forthcoming.

I think they set the CEL with ridiculously low tolerance either because of government emissions requirements, or they really want that $80 to hook up your car to an analyzer. (-;

mazda6s

"In fact, the suspension components come right off the 6!"

Only the rear. The Mazda3 has struts up front.

robr2

Thank you for taking my black cloud!! Since November of 2002, I've been rearended 4 times and hit by an errant tire on the highway.

redkey1

Why put luxury features (NAV / Xenons) on a "compact" car and not their midsize sport sedan?

jstandefer

"Why put luxury features (NAV / Xenons) on a "compact" car and not their midsize sport sedan?"

Mazda is very strange indeed. The U.S. is the most profitable car market in the world. We are generally willing to spend more money on a car than most of the world. And yet, navigation, xenons, and stability control have been available on the 6 overseas since day one. But, this wouldn't be Mazda's first marketing mistake... I figured that would have been one good thing to come out of their relationship with Ford.

redkey1

US consumers would pay for those features on a midsize, doubtful on a compact.

baggs32

"US consumers would pay for those features on a midsize, doubtful on a compact."

I agree. I'm most likely going to buy a 3 instead of a 6 but since we will probably never take the 3 on long trips, where the nav would be most useful to me, it's useless. I would be more inclined to take a 6 on trips instead of the Escape mostly due to it's extra passenger and cargo capacity.

If I get a good deal on a 3 with the nav then I will take it but I'm not going to ask for it specifically.

One other note, opting for the SAB/SAC/ABS package on the 3 does not require anything else if you go for one of the s models. Even if you want the i model you still only have to get the power group and A/C. They made it a lot easier to get only what you really want on the 3.

A comparably equipped 6 will be about $6000 more than the 3 I want. The 6 holds two advantages the way I see it, a V6 and more room. Other than that it's pretty much a wash.

stickguy

just cause an expensive gadget like Nav (or HID lights) is offered, doesn't mean that anyone is going to buy it. And if they do, expect to see them added to the 6 soon.

shahmask

i have no concrete basis for this but it may have to do something with where the parts come from and where it's built. if i read correctly, the 3's are coming directly from japan. another thing may be that the compact market is a bigger market for mazda and therefore more customization was neccessary to hit corrolla and civic hard(although you'd think think this is what they'd do against camry and accord and maybe even extend this to tsx). one other thing i could come up with(and its more like a conspiracy theory) is that ford doesn't want mazda to compete so directly against the third best selling car in america(although i don't know how that piece of junk could be the 3rd best selling car in america).

jstandefer

I do enjoy conspiracy theories. However, Ford's goal is for Mazda to be the sporty, semi-upscale branch. The 6 is already more upscale than the Taurus and Sable. The Taurus replacement, the Futura, will be based on the Mazda6 platform, but less sporty and less upscale. Unfortunately, the Futura will be built in Mexico.

wleonard

YEP, you bet ya. Check out RX-club forum and do a quick search for MPG. You will see owners, like me, not happy.

It is a sports car and it is a rotary, but the EPA sticker states 18 city 26 Hwy.

Owners logs are reporting 15 to 18 mixed. Also tank is 12 gals, so going to the gas station every 3rd day is no fun - sports car or not.

I traded my 3.5 ton Ford Excursion(Triton V-10)it got 16mpg all day long.

Well Mazda corp is making good and fair offer to buy it back. Back she goes. Nice, fun, free, 3 month test drive.
Cheers.

mazda6s

"Why put luxury features (NAV / Xenons) on a "compact" car and not their midsize sport sedan?"

Here's my theory. It's probably an engineering and/or supplier problem, more than anything else. The Mazda3 will be be sold globally in larger volumes than the Mazda6, and in most of the world the Mazda3 is considered a full size car. So, they had to get the engineering and production issues completed for putting this equipment in the Mazda3 first. Remember that the Mazda3 is built in Japan for the whole world. Different engineering groups within the company may have been responsible for the two cars.

This equipment will appear on the Mazda6, maybe mid-year or on 2005 models. Very few Mazda3 units will be sold with NAV/Xenons in the US.