Mazda6 Sedan

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Comments

  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I noticed whenever they put out a good product out there thats is supposed make a dent in the market Mazda always messes it up.

    Rust is the last thing you expect when buying a new car. Mazda just keeps on finding off the wall ways to kill their reputation. In the last 10 years they have had the tranny debacle, The HP debacle twice(one with the RX-8 and once with the Miata and now the rust with the 6.) This is too many gaffes for a car company to have in a 10 year period.

    I agree with new car's 31 post 14565.
  • livaudaislivaudais Member Posts: 55
    Probably not, even though I have no rust on mine so far. But if reliability were a concern, I wouldn't get a Passat either. I'd get the TSX.

    CL
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Why wouldn't you buy a 6 again? Because of the rust issue or you just don't like it. I'm just curious to why you wouldn't buy one again.

    If I were in the market now the 6 would be the perfect fit but now with the rust issue I would look at a Passat or Accord Coupe. The TSX is very expensive for what your paying for.
  • livaudaislivaudais Member Posts: 55
    Otherwise I like my car even more now than when I first purchased it. Hopefully this issue will be resolved quickly and satisfactorily, but we'll just have to see.

    The Accord Coupe just does nothing for me. Passat was my first choice until I started reading about its reliability issues. I actually think the TSX represents pretty good value for $27k. Still, if rust weren't a factor, I'd buy the same car again.

    CL
  • doctord33doctord33 Member Posts: 14
    Interesting guys ... I'm really torn with what to do. I didn't realize the Passat had reliability issues as well. Most of the CR reviews and such said reliability is above average. But I'm torn between the 6s and the Passat GLS. The TSX is nice, but too expensive. I'm trying to stay between 20 and 25. The Accord and Camry just aren't sharp enough for me. Very cookie cutter-like. Any other suggestions? Thoughts? Opinions on the 6? Things you like/don't like? Anybody driven it in snow yet? One of the things that worried me was not knowing much about Mazda's reputation. Now this rust thing has me freaked.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I like everything about my Mazda6 except for the rust. It would be a dream come true to have the exact same car that I have now without rust.....and with a factory paint job.
  • doctord33doctord33 Member Posts: 14
    Well, that's a ringing endorsement. How is it in the snow?
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    I have 8,000 miles on my 6s AT. The car has been flawless up to the point of finding the rust. It was difficult to find on my Steel Grey at first. I enjoy driving it more than the day I purchased it. I have no worries as to the mechanical reliability on my 6s. No snow experience yet.

    Unfortunately I would have to recommend waiting until this issue is resolved before you purchase one.

    Mark. : )
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    My car hasn't seen snow yet. I bought it at the end of June.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    but would check the car for rust on the door frame under the weatherstrips.....

    It is fun to drive...tonight I was doing 95mph with 5 people in the car....God it was magnificent....and everybody was getting out of my way leaving the left lane open for me....

    too good handling and the road feel that you get.
  • aromasaromas Member Posts: 314
    doctord33: I got my 6 on March 1 and we still had quite a few snowfalls after that and I have to say it was very stable for a car that isn't 4WD. This is probably due to the lower centre of gravity on the car. Then again I had brand new tires so we'll see about this winter(if I still have it).

    That will be the last official good thing I say about this car to anyone as an official protest until Mazda gets rid of my rust. When Mazda gets wind of my protest I'm sure they'll double their efforts into finding a fix. No need to thank me. OK, two more things, it handles like it's on rails and looks really hot. That's it,no more.

    If I was a prospective buyer of a 6 I wouldn't go near any car even if it has no rust visible as it may be encRUSTed inside the seams just waiting to get out a month after you buy it and take it outside. Wait until Mazda has identified the problem and buy one with a build date after it's been rectified. Just my two cents worth which coincidentally is the current resale value of my once beloved 6.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    You could do like I am going to and wait for them to fix the rust problem and get one that was built AFTER the fix was implemented, if you can wait that long that is.
  • darmc96hdarmc96h Member Posts: 9
    doc, I would personally check any 6 you are buying for rust, if it did not have the rust problem I would think you are in the clear. I wouldn't let this deter me from buying the car seeing a few of the facts that are out there. Even within these internet boards not all of the US built 6's seem to have the problem. My case in point, my family has 3 of them, 2 have rust, one does not. The one that does not was built 12/02, the two that do were built 3/03. The one that does not doesn't even show a sign of rust anywhere on the affected areas. Mazda is saying that this is a problem with a "series" of cars, not all cars. In terms of the VW, I would pass. The Passat is over-priced, under powered, built in Mexico and has been having a host of reliability problems since the production of it has been decentralized from Germany.
  • darmc96hdarmc96h Member Posts: 9
    Someone on here was saying the rust is being caused by a design flaw and all 6's would be rusting. I totally disagree with this, seeing as MANY other makes and models use the same type of channel to hang the molding on the doors and do not rust at all. For example a Honda we have in our family uses the same method to hang the molding. With proper galvinization and painting, this design is not a problem at all and you can't say all 6's will be affected.
  • darmc96hdarmc96h Member Posts: 9
    Don't let your hondaboy friend beat you down on your 6. People who care that much to put the car down because of this issue are a bit jeleous of the car and are happy that there is a "flaw" in it that they can pick on. Don't you worry, if he has a new Accord V6, he won't be laughing in a couple of years when that lovely GM tranny that was causing problems with the car's launch right up to the day the began shipping them to dealerships starts to rare its ugly head.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    What GM tranny? And what transmission problem? Even if it is a GM tranny, which I'm fairly sure it's not, GM does build reliable transmissions. And why would GM give Honda a 5-speed auto to use when they don't even use one in their new Malibu?
  • aromasaromas Member Posts: 314
    People, people let's not get into a Honda-Mazda flame war again! We all are suckers!

    Every car made on Earth is designed to siphon your money be it Honda, Mazda, Toyota, GM etc. To say one is clearly more reliable than another is actually pretty funny. The car manufacturer is there to make money and for you to buy more cars. They have been making cars for decades, if they wanted to make a car with no defective parts trust me they all could.

    Any car I've ever had or known anybody else to have has always had something that wore out prematuraly(brake pads, clutches, CV joints, tires etc) and cost you an arm and a leg or needed a replacement part that shouldn't have died(head gaskets, trannys). People who claim to never had any problems are extremely lucky or never put any mileage on the car and had it for a couple of years.

    There is no such thing as a reliable car, our money makes the automotive world go round. For all the people who claim that they had the perfect Honda there are just as many who claim to had have the perfect Ford. In reality they were far from perfect. Perception and reality are very blurred in the car industry. Owners believe what they want to believe. This rust has made me so jaded!
  • r2s2r2s2 Member Posts: 93
    darmc96h said: "The Passat is over-priced, under powered, built in Mexico and has been having a host of reliability problems since the production of it has been decentralized from Germany."

    Unless something has changed, the Passat has always been manufactured in Germany; the Jetta, Golf and New Beetle are made in Mexico.

    I drove a 98 Passat GLX for three years and I've had a 2001.5 Passat GLX for 2 1/2 years. Not a single problem with either of them.

    I also have a Mazda 6s MT with 1800 miles and not a single problem with it, either. No, no rust yet (fingers crossed).

    I enjoy both cars.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    My family has always bought Domestic Big 3 Cars through the 80's and 90's and never really has had any real big problems with them except for one lemon. Its weird because everybody says how bad Domestic Big 3 cars were in the 80's/early 90's.

    I don't think Honda uses GM tranny's. Gm does make a good auto tranny. Honda and Mazda make the best manual tranny's from what I hear. Doesn't BMW use GM tranny's?
  • vkarvkar Member Posts: 28
    I have an automatic 6i, and I notice that whenever I turn the steering wheel clockwise, there is a single "tick" noise. This does not happen when I turn the wheel anti-clockwise. Is this something that should happen, or should I ask the dealer to have a look at it?

    Also, I hear a ticking sound whenever the wipers move up. Is this expected?

    The dealer has put a lot of felt tape in the center console, but it still rattles everytime I hit a bump. Has anybody found a solution to this?

    Thanks for your help.
  • doctord33doctord33 Member Posts: 14
    For all the advice. I truly appreciate it. I'm a research geek when it comes to big purchases and am so glad I stumbled across this thread. To be honest, I'm leaning a little towards the Passat right now, but with the 2,000 cash back it's so tempting to get the 6 -- with a V6 no less -- for some 3,000 less than the Passat GLS four cylinder. I'm just worried about winter driving (I currently own the mother of all clunkers -- a '99 Grand Cherokee) in New England as well as Mazda's long term reliability. A comment on another board, about not mentioning this rust fiasco to Edmunds or Car and Driver out of fear of depreciation and perhaps more drastically, Mazda going belly up. So we'll see. But any other suggestions or opinions are more than welcome. And thanks again.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    it should be alright. The V6 is from a Ford Block but Mazda has finshing touches on it. I think Mazda gets too much hate for that Ford Tranny which shredded their reputation in half. However I agree though the rust is a totally different animal.
  • bluem6ibluem6i Member Posts: 77
    I checked our Lapis Blue 6i and all 4 doors have visible rust under the weather stripping. Also noticed some spots on the top corner weld of the drivers door. No rust in the trunk gutter. It is very slight right now but, it will only get worse. I will be calling my dealer in the morning.

    We bought it in April and it was built 02/03.

    Also checked my 2002 Protege and there is absolutely NO RUST anywhere.
  • accord7accord7 Member Posts: 96
    Mazda has updated their website. I just downloaded the spec sheet for 2004 that shows the i and s models, which then follows with data for the DX, LX and ES models. I imagine those models are for Canada or elsewhere. There just seems to be too much incompetence with Mazda, whether it's on their web site, manufacturing facility or advertising dept. If the car didn't look so good, I'd just turn away and never look back.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    It could be a problem with the page loading or something, which falls on the techie guy. :)
  • superbonesuperbone Member Posts: 26
    I've been going back and forth on what car to replace my Mazda RX-8 with and finally decide on the Mazda6s and then come here and find out about this rust issue!

    Between this and the CA car tax issue, I'll probably just wait.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Now there is an issue worse than the rust on my MZ6. I used to think NY was tough to take. These days I appreciate living here.
  • livaudaislivaudais Member Posts: 55
    Found it starting on my right rear door frame. Count me in :-((

    CL
  • darmc96darmc96 Member Posts: 21
    Yah, Mazda's web site person messed up the website so I guess I had better go buy a Honda because that means Mazda's must be horrible unreliable cars.....
  • barich1barich1 Member Posts: 143
    I'd like to weigh in on the rust situation. First of all, other highly regarded car manufacturers have had serious issues that have affected large numbers of cars. Honda's AT and Toyota's sludge come to mind. Mazda has in the past had commendable handling of bad situations (they offered to buy back RX-8s because of the HP debacle, the same thing that they did with the Miata). Meanwhile, Toyota denied the sludge issues for a long time and chose to blame the problem on poor maintenance. Honda also ignored the AT problems at first. Both manufacturers were only forced to acknowledge the issues when the problems had blown up to very sizeable proportions. Mazda, in the past, has stepped up to the plate and admitted their mistakes. It appears, after reading e-mail responses, that they are continuing to do that.

    This appears to not be a design issue, but a manufacturing one at Flat Rock. If it were a design problem, this would be happening to 6s made in Japan as well, and, as far as I know, it's not. Mazda would likely have already tested the design in Japan and simply told Flat Rock to build it the same way. Obviously, a step was missed somewhere. I have no doubt that Mazda will do whatever is necessary to take care of the people with rusting 6s. They can't have bad word of mouth spreading (as it already seems to be) just as sales are starting to pick up. And their history indicates that they will take care of the problem.

    If I had a new car that was rusting already you can bet I would be unhappy. But I think it's a little overboard to be condemning Mazda for a problem that they will in all likelihood rectify.

    I think Steve Jobs said this (although someone may have said it before him): "Good companies make mistakes. Great companies fix them." In the past, Mazda has been more of a "Great" company than their larger rivals in Japan. Let's wait and see what they do this time before threatening to never buy a Mazda again.
  • darmc96darmc96 Member Posts: 21
    Well said! And owners of other cars that come over here to flame on Mazda why? Jeleous of the attention the 6 has gotten? Anxious to "feel" as if they bought a superior vehicle? This is why I brought up the Honda AT problems in my previous posts. I think Mazda will step up to the plate and take care of this MUCH better than some other automakers would.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >> And why would GM give Honda a 5-speed auto to use <<

    Technology sharing. GM and Honda have this "thing" going between them.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    So far, the only "thing" that has happened between GM and Honda is Honda providing the 3.5L V6 and 5sp auto for the Saturn VUE in exchange for some diesels from Isuzu.
  • aromasaromas Member Posts: 314
    What Mazda does all depends on how many cars are affected. This will be a silent recall, in other words Mazda will fix it if you find out about it. There is no way they would notify all owners. The Toyota and Honda problems were in no way close to how wide ranging this problem is. I'm willing to bet that at least 50% of cars are affected, heck it seems 90% of the owners here have it. The scope of cars is much greater than the RX-8 and Miata HP problems.

    If they had to replace doors for 50% of the cars they would go belly up, they would only do that if maybe 10% were affected. Although if you complain loudly enough(which I will)they will replace doors for special cases. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The most practical thing they could do is scrape and repaint and offer everybody a lifetime warrenty against it and keep their fingers crossed that it works and most customers don't give them a hard time.
  • grubbs1grubbs1 Member Posts: 69
    I own an 01 Protege and several of your user names seem familiar to me, after two years! I guess we have a lot in common.

    I am looking to buy an '03 6s auto in red with the sports package, sunroof and leather. But with the rust problem I have been reading here, now what do I do?

    My wife and I drove an RX8 automatic and a Toyota Solara SE Sport yesterday. The RX8 is exotic, maybe too much so for my blood. The acceleration didn't impress me and it was too pricey. Then we drove the 6, just for fun (back to this later). We headed to the nearby Toyota dealership and test drove the Solara. This car seemed to be a bit oversized and bland.

    After the test driving, my wife and I agreed that the 6 seemed a clear choice: fast, beautiful, sporty, hi-tech, smooth and practical. The leather also smelled very nice.

    Back to my question: Now what do I do?

    To throw a wrench in the mess, we are also considering a Kia Sorento EX. The pricing is very similar as well as the equipment. We are hitting the crossroad: car or suv? Any and all suggestions and/or information is appreciated!
  • darmc96darmc96 Member Posts: 21
    I will start by saying I have the rust on my 6, my fiancee does too, but my father who also has a 6 does not. From what I understand, this problem does not affect ALL 6's built in the US and none of the Japaneese built ones. I would say check the 6 you are looking at for rust based on the information that is out here or have the dealership do it for you while you are present. They may or may not be aware of the issue. If the particular car you are looking at or looking to buy does not have the rust you are more than likely in the clear based on the knowledge that we have as of right now. I am not sure I would totally let this deter me from buying a 6.
  • darmc96darmc96 Member Posts: 21
    I remember several months back they had one of those 20-20 type TV shows discussing the issue of "Where Your Car is Actually Made" and they mentioned the stuff between Honda and GM specifically becasue it isn't a relationship that is "known" like say Mazda and Ford. I can't find anything online about it though, kind of like it never happened or doesn't exist. Wierd!
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    The Solara is too "soft/docile".

    The Sorento is a truck. And it's a KIA. Looks nice, but it's a KIA...

    If the Rx-8 is too much and the 6 concerns you b/c of the rust issue, and you have a PRO, how about a Mazda3 w/2.3L engine, 17" rims, etc....?

    Dinu
  • darmc96darmc96 Member Posts: 21
    Actually, Mazda like other producers of products protect themselves from recall claims with insurance, see below from the IRMI website, which is a risk managment and insurance website:

    "There are essentially three types of coverage available that relate to product recall claims.

    Product recall
    Malicious tampering/accidental contamination
    Product liability

    Any one of these can be a stand-alone policy or an added endorsement to a company's property policy.

    A product recall policy, standing alone, covers the logistical costs of a recall, such as publicity, transportation and storage of the item, repairing and returning the items, and other extra expenses necessary to carry out the recall. This type of policy will not cover the costs of lost profits and rehabilitating a product's public image, although special endorsements may be available to include lost profits coverage.

    Malicious tampering and accidental contamination coverage are similar, yet distinct. Malicious tampering coverage, developed in the years since the Tylenol poisonings, has the higher limits of the two and covers criminal actions to sabotage a company's products. Accidental contamination policies cover instances where an unsafe product has been unintentionally distributed by the company itself.

    Both of these cover all of the costs of a product recall, as well as lost profits and mitigating expenses. A malicious tampering policy would provide protection in a Tylenol-type situation, whereas accidental contamination would apply in such instances as the General Mills recall of pesticide-contaminated grain. Both recalls were valued at over $100 million. [Barnhart, Sky. "When Things Go Wrong, Product Recall Saves More Than Money," Insurance Journal/West, December 14, 1998.]

    A product liability policy, which can be included with or separate from tampering and contamination policies, is coverage that protects only against any claims that may arise from injuries caused by a hazardous or defective product. It does not cover the logistical costs of a recall, nor the associated lost profits."

    Sorry, I am a CPA who audits insurance companies, what can I say! Mazda will probably have to pay some out of its pocket, but will not likely go belly up no matter what has to be offered to us 6 owners.
  • buggywhipbuggywhip Member Posts: 188
    It's very unlikely that Mazda will go belly up. It has Ford's vast resources behind it. If Ford could save Aston and Jag (two automotive dinosaurs), then Mazda has nothing to fear........this whole rust issue is really nutz. I can't believe Mazda would make such an extensive goof. The carelessness goes to the very heart of the auto, its structure. Do not underestimate the damage this could do to Mazda. Nowadays, people expect a certain amount of basic engineering competence and perfection. A new car that rusts in 3 mos. demonstrates a huge, huge screw-up..............aromas, your postings are getting more and more forlorn. It's really breaking my heart. Everything will work out.
  • aromasaromas Member Posts: 314
    buggywhip: If you think I'm depressed now, I'm trying not to think what they're supposed to do about my trunk gutter. Geez what kind of fix are they going to propose for that. I don't feel real comfy about a scrape and paint solution. If they were to replace every part affected they're probably better off giving me a new car. I did do a complete detail Saturday, still looks brand new inside and out so I still have a little enthusiasm left for this car even with crappy seats and stinking rust.

    darmc96: I hope you're right because as much as we all feel screwed by this issue, I wouldn't want Mazda to suffer irreperable damage because they still make the best pound for pound car on the market for driving dynamics.
  • shov6shov6 Member Posts: 177
    Well, I read the posts on the "rust issue" but decided to take the chance and get one anyway.

    The "6" was on my short list, and when one with my desired configuration magically appeared at my local dealer, all I had to do was say "where do I sign?"

    The "desired configuration" was 6S, manual tranny, sport package, and Bose stereo.

    As of today, such a machine is situated right outside my window. :)

    Black, unfortunately, but it was better than getting something else, eh?

    So far I am very pleased. I'll report more after the car has something over 200 miles on the clock!

    -SHOV6
    2003 M6, aka- "Son of SHO"
  • bostongiobostongio Member Posts: 52
    I don't get the same one or two owners who keep complaining about this new issue that has cropped up. It's like folks didn't know that first and second-year cars on a brand-new platform are bound to have problems, ranging from small to large. It's the chance you take when you choose to be amongst the very few to buy a first-year car. All this doom and gloom!! What a hard-learned lesson...

    The fact is, nobody really knows the seriousness of the issue in terms of it affecting the car's durability and long-term performance. Nobody. Everyone who claims to know this will result in all sorts of problems in the future is simply guessing. As others have mentioned, this sort of issue can be found on other cars (I have it on my 90's Nissan Maxima) and it doesn't get any worse.

    Mazda needs a few weeks to look at the issue, understand its roots, fix it and offer a fix to current owners. From my understanding, they just learned of the extent of the problem last week. Continuous speculation about what can or cannot be done about isn't giving much credit at all to the hundreds of dedicated engineers that worked on this car. Give them some credit and some slack and some time and I have no doubt a solution will be made available to all.

    I'm still on for buying the 5 door when released. The 6 is just too great a car for the money to not keep it under consideration.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Do you have rust?
  • barrysobarryso Member Posts: 66
    I don't know if this will make you feel any better but it is worth a shot...

    We're hoping Mazda does right by the rust problem. Mine has it, too. Since Mazda did the right thing for the RX-8 owners a few months ago it isn't hard to speculate they will do right by us.

    Consider it from Mazda's side right now. They have discovered a problem in production that is going to cost them *big* in both reputation and money. While they will have to fix the existing owners' cars, their first objective will be to fix the production line. As bad as this problem is for everyone they will only make it worse if the cars flowing off the production line aren't fixed *NOW*. They have to stop the problem at the source so the probem doesn't get larger and more expenisve. That'll keep them occupied for at least a few weeks or months.

    Luckily this is not a safety issue. Nobody is going to be driving down the highway and have their transmission choke, their breaks fail or have their engine catch on fire. If Mazda takes a few extra months to figure out how to fix the problem for existing owners they would actually be doing us a favor by taking their time and doing it correctly. Nobody wants to take their car in for a rust "fix" only to have the problem come back.

    If it was a real safety issue then the time spent waiting for Mazda to do something would be another thing.

    Frankly I've owned a lot of cars over the years. Mazdas, Hondas, Lincolns, VW's and they have all had things go wrong with them. My first Honda was a lemon and people look at me funny when I tell them this story, as if the magical Honda could ever build anything less than perfection. Ha!

    The most reliable car I owned was a Mercury Tracer (Mazda 323) that went 100,000 miles on wear items alone. The second best was a Lincoln Mark VII (an American car!). The worst? A 1983 VW Jetta that decided to commit suicide one night by catching on fire in my driveway. It burnt to a crisp. But it sure was a great driving car.

    Anyway, sorry to get so wordy on this post. But all cars have problems, even makes like Mazda that have been building reliable cars for years and years. Don't let it get you down.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    How many cars will be affected and what are the build dates that the cars range from? Another question is what will Mazda do with 6's that are sitting in the lots right now that maybe building rust up? Like somebody said before I hope Flat Rock has correted this production malfunction in their system when going through the process of painting 6's.
  • grubbs1grubbs1 Member Posts: 69
    Please tell us...what did you pay for your 6? Please be detailed and also mention your buying experience.

    Barryso: the 'best' car I have owned is also a '89 Merc. Tracer. Great car for the money. It ran like a clock.

    Dumb question: how can you tell where the car was built? Were the 6's that were made in Japan only a certain model?
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    If a 6 is built in Japan I think the VIN number on the car will start with the letter J. I think Us built cars start with number 1 on the VIN number. Just so you know I don't there are any Japanese built 6's in the US. I think they are all built in Flat Rock. Wasn't part of the question but thats just for additional information.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    ur right....i had the Honda GM relationship the other way.

    as far as your 6 goes, I feel for you. But I also trust Mazda to step up and offer a competent solution. In my experience with my Protege, Mazda did take care of my issues without nary a haggling.

    Just be sure to keep in touch with Mazda via musa@mazdausa.com and your local dealer.
    If buyback is the reasonable alternative, they will do that too.
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