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Comments
Dude, I have a car with 4000 miles on it that is rusting from the inside out.
"Also please remember, it's just a car."
Uh, it's also about $300 every month for the next 5 years.
"I'd hate to see your reaction to a genuine crisis like sitting by your child's hospital bed"
Since I don't have a sick child in the hospital, I should be grateful that my biggest problem in life right now is my brand new car rusting from the inside out? Puhleeese.
All I meant was keep it in perspective. You are acting like it is the end of the world - it's not. And yes it is just a car - nothing more than a collection of metal and plastic and rubber albeit a collection you still owe money on.
pkz:
You can't extrapolate the small and unscientific sample of vehicles presented here to the 85K+ sold.
I think we need to give time on this problem. For all we know, it could be just some light surface rust associated with some new technique they're using for welding. The steel they use in cars can't rust in a matter of months, there has to be some contamination issue and it is likely the combination of the contaminant and the metal that is causing light corrosion. I don't think we have enought data to indicate that car is "rusting from the inside out" or that it even indicates the possibility of reduced structural life of the vehicle.
I'm sure Mazda will take care of it ... let's give them a chance. Companies don't solve problems like this in a week or two. They have to survey the issue, find the cause, and develop a fix. It takes time.
None of this would have any bearing whatsoever on my purchase decision on a new 6.
- Mark
I think he wants a Honda Accord.
Otherwise, if he really likes the car, he would be more than willing to let mazda replace the doors on his car. (and that can be done...Ford Europe did that with the Focus with same door rust problem)
I was talking to one of the svc guys and they said they're having someone come in tomorrow to show their rusted 6 so I immediately thought of you. They looked surprised at the rust comment and also said this is the first complain about rust they had.
Good luck! Let us know what happens.
Dinu
I've lost interest in MY Mazda6. If it were just a matter of replacing the doors, I'd be pissed, but I wouldn't be so concerned. If anyone in here knows ANYTHING about autobody, they'd know that discolored paint means rust coming from the inside. It's really simple. Look at the pictures of the trunk gutters. Unlike the doors, these are not replacable body panels. You cannot fix the trunk gutters to be like new. period.
As far as replacing the doors; I don't like that idea either. Who wants a brand new car with body shop painted doors?
The fact that I liked this car so much makes it even harder for me.
There is a poll running at mazda6club website about this and 48 people reported rust, 27 reported no rust. Included in those 27 are people from Europe, Australia etc with Japan built Mazda's, that don't really count. So the sample is not so small anymore and if one believes that it's a sufficiently random sample it's very possible to extrapolate the results to the total number of Mazda 6 built. I personally believe that it is a sufficiently random sample.
For what it's worth, I checked our SI (built 12/02) and Accord (built 8/03 I think) and neither one have any discoloration around the doors or trunk. Maybe tomorrow I will check our 94 Lexus.
I don't know a heck of a lot about statistical sampling (on the other hand, my wife teaches statistics in college) and both of us agree ... 75 responses out of a potential 85,000 is not a sufficiently random sample. Nothing anyone tells those affected will make them feel better, but you simply have to be patient and let Mazda figure out what is happening.
It is not fair to expect the company to go through an entire evaluation and remedy process in a couple of weeks. I sincerely hope that everyone affected will be satisfied with Mazda's response, because I am a potential buyer of the car and I am very interested in seeing how this plays out.
This is a serious issue as not only does it piss off those with rust but it will make you think what other areas that we can't see will rust later on which then could become a safety issue. Mazda's whole process may be flawed. I may be overblowing that aspect of it but if someone told me when I bought the car that I would have rust 6 months later I would of fell on the floor laughing.
I love my 6 but if they offered a buyback I'd take it in a second. My faith in Mazda is shaken and deservedly so. There is no way I'm being a guinea pig as the ends of my door channels and trunk gutter already look like it's perforating. If I have to I will call Mazda Canada everyday until this is resolved to my satisfaction.
Dinu: That's me going to the dealer tomorrow. They seemed rather dismissive on the phone calling it "simple surface rust". Boy are they in for a big suprise tomorrow especially when I check the cars on the lot where I'm sure to find some more cases.
chikoo posted a link at the other site about the 2003 Ford Expedition having seat frames rusting. There is a silent recall on this and they will replace the seats. Apparently it stems from a cost cutting measure Ford implemented to save a couple of dollars per car on paint. If this is the 6 problem then I think I'm gonna need some Valium after I get thru with Mazda.
It is arguable however that our sample is not truly random and is biased towards rusty cars. I personally believe that this bias is small, because those who checked their car and didn't find rust are just as likely to report about it, because they are happy, as those who found rust, because they are pissed. This part is not very "scientific" - just my feeling.
Although it's 'just a car' to alot of people, it means more to you than that, thus it's more important.
Give Mazda a chance to check out your car, at least, before thinking about selling and stuff like that. Be patient, and make an appointment to take the car in.
Good luck to you and everyone else involved in this mess.
I also read this link - that's why I said our rust problem might be some ill conceived cost cutting attempt. Scary, huh?
It's sad to say I saw one 89 Ford Tbird (the oldest on that lot) Did not show any signs of rust. YET, I did see 2 Civic's 96 and 97, that had some faint rusting on a few areas. One 99 Accord had quite a bit which I was surprised, after some questioning it turns out she bought her car used, but it was brought from up north (salt on roads), so that might explain the rust on her car.
Good luck everyone.
Hey guys, one more thing; I couldnt make it ontime for the chat. Did you asked about the problem? If so, what did they telled you?
Thanks
Took a little road trip the other day...filled up my tank Monday night, Tuesday I had a ~260 mile round trip on the highway - set the cruise at about 73 most of the way. Drove around town yesterday just to work and back, etc. Had 3/8 of a tank left this morning when I filled up again.
Got 29.24 mpg on that tank! My city driving mpg has been 24.5-25.3mpg the two times I've checked so far. So this 4-5 mpg increase due to the highway miles was nice!
And mine is a 6i automatic, by the way.
:-)
Time to go to the dealer to show them my little problem and check out the cars on the lot. This should be fun.
-Of those customers who leave, 68% do so because of an attitude of indifference by the company or a specific individual.
-It costs six times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an old one.
-A typical dissatisfied customer will tell 8-10 people about their problem.
;-)
so hang in there everyone, this will require a little time. Let's be fair and give them some room to figure this out.
Managed to time it just right so Bruce Springsteen's solo in "Disorder in the House" was playing as I was taking one of my favorite curves. This road cuts through protected woodlands and is out in the middle of nowhere. Pushed though the curve at about 60 or 70 mph in third gear, wind and guitar solo wafting through the car and with a *huge* grin on my face.
No worries about rust, noise, taxes, war, politics or anything else. Man, what a *perfect* moment.
Later that night the M6 was used to take a group of us out to dinner. It was very civilized and comfortable (just like an adult car).
Questions:
1. what is this tape?
2. Will it be applied by a dealer "under warranty" ?
I also spoke to the Mazda sales manager there and told him about the rust issue (I used to sell there). He said that in the past month or so, Mazda6 sales have dropped off drastically. Since the rust issue is a recent "discovery," it can't be that. However, I noticed many Mazda6's sitting in the service lot that were in for warranty repairs (hat color denotes this at that dealership). Perhaps the car is starting to get a less-than-stellar reputation, and hence the lower price push.
If you have rust, please report it at:
http://www.4doorzoom.1hwy.com/m6_rust.html
The more vehicles we get, the better analyzing we can do. So far, we have vehicles ranging in build dates from 9/02-6/03, 2003's and 2004's, in all regions, and all colors. You can also find pics, diagrams, and details to help guide you where to look and what to do if you have rust.
About the rust issue I really feel bad for Mazda 6 owners. This is terrible. As for the rust issue being overblown I don't think it is. I mean this is rust on a brand new car we are talking about here. I don't get it there was no big rust issue on 626's of the past. My logic would tell me the Flat Rock plant would use the same painting process on 6's that it did on past 626's. Something went wrong when 03 and some 04 6's went through the process of being painted in the Flat Rock factory.
There is no rust on my 02 Acura CL and some people did complain about paint jobs on the 01-02 CL's. The CL's paint job is better than I had on the one with the 626.
New Car 31: I feel for you.
As for somebody stating its only rust on a car and not a baby or something like that thats kind of an understatement I feel. A purchase of a car is the second biggest purchase you are going to make in your life besides buying a house.
I would give my Mazda a chance to respond. There has to be a recall in place for this rust issue. If I were Mazda I would give 10 years/100,000 miles rustproofing. As far as resale is concerned if MZ 6 sales really drop badly because of the rust issue the resale will be very low. This is rust issue is a big deal and needs to be taken seriously. If there are 8 Mazda 6's at a dealer and 7 of them have rust you have a big problem on your hands. I wonder if the NHTSA will investigate Mazda. I know its not a safety issue though.
"And for those who have sites such as 4DoorZoom, I would suggest you/they install a (referrer software) ASAP to find out if Mazda officials are scouting the sites for more info. I can already tell you, I have a "feeling" FORD has cruised into that site already and I would be interested in knowing how many "hits" were lodged stemming from Ford HQ :-)"
I took a look at some raw log data and found many dozen hits from ford.com IPs in the last five days. I will count them later, but I would say at least 60 hits. Most followed the link from BlueOvalNews, but some were direct (typed in address or linked from external e-mail viewer).
I didn't see any Mazda hits, but they may be using a different network other than MazdaUSA.com. I'll keep looking.
If I found such a problem on my car, I would be similarly disgusted and looking for the best solution, and definitely would not think of it as a trifling issue.
Anyway, wish you best of luck to get this resolved amicably.
I wonder if I can get a $2000 rebate on one.
The guy looks at the door frames and says "look it's just dirt from the weatherstripping and I can wipe it off with my finger" Well DUUUUUUUH! The beginning of surface rust can be wiped off when it's spreading from the seams as I pointed out. He retorts "I don't see it spreading out from the seams, this is normal thing with cars". Buddy make an app't with an optomitrist ASAP. Then I showed him my trunk gutter(checkmate pal) where rust is occurring outside the weatherstripping. He changed his tune then and said he'll contact a Mazda rep to come in to check out my car in a couple of weeks. He was pretty much doing his Helen Keller impersonation after that.
I checked out 5 NEW CARS in the nice warm showroom and 2 out of 5 had rust in the same area(silver and grey)not as bad as mine but as soon as it is bought by some poor sap and taken outdoors it will be comparable. The cars on the lot were locked so I couldn't check.
I'm calling Mazda Canada again tomorrow to get a rep to see me ASAP and inform them of the showroom cars having rust. I think this is gonna be a bigger problem than even we all think when new cars are infested at such a high %. They better start working on a fix soon and don't even try to be patronizing with thier customers.
STILL no word about my seat replacement and the Yankees lost. I'm having a bad week.
So you're getting a rep to come see your car and still no word on the seats. Try these guys but if you want to call another Mazda dealer and just explain on the phone you're having rust on your 6 - I wonder what they'll say besides bring it in.
Dinu
One thing I've noticed is I don't think I've heard any reports of rust from owners with black or yellow cars. Wonder if that means anything. Are different colors treated at different areas of the plant when applied?
The grey car I checked was not hard to spot rust so the darker colors aren't really hiding it. If it's there you should be able to see it even if it's red I imagine.
This is why I keep telling everyone to give Mazda time to pinpoint the cause and come up with a resolve. This isnt going to get fixed overnight. Especially since most dealerships still don't know much.
http://www.4doorzoom.1hwy.com/m6_rust_report.html
Nothing kills a car faster than BAD NEWS. Look how long it took Audi to recover from the transmission problem, where their cars seem to go into gear all by themselves. I don't recall what the cause was, but it took years to rebuild confidence. The A4 finally won buyers back.
fowler3
Talked about the cars for a minute then got a flashlight out of my car and told him to come look at my car. Showed him the rust and explained the circumstances and then asked to look at his car. Suprise, suprise he had a few spots on all 4 doors(didn't check the trunk as my boy was whining loudly). He bought the car in July and it was his pride and joy, probably spent every last penny he had to buy it. Told him what's happening and to call his dealer to file a report.
Felt so bad for the guy but I figure it's better that he finds out now then much later when he may be out of luck.
Hey you single guys there may be some good to come out of this. If you happen to run into some good-looking girl with a M6, the rust thing is a great ice-breaker and imagine how grateful she'll be if you do find rust.Then you ask for her # so you can call her for updates after you tell her that Mazda has been using you as a go-between and you two will need to go for dinner so you can explain what Mazda has planned to fix it.
Fowler: You Americans are so lucky, at least you have a Lemon Law. Us Canadians have no such alternative. If you play your cards right and really don't want the car anymore just show the dealer 1 door each visit.
It is unlikely that the assembly plant location will make any difference. The color of the car certainly won't, other than to temporarily hide. If the area was one that could be kept relatively dry that would be of benefit, but in the door areas? Not likely. Hope this is not as severe and widespread as it sounds.
Suggested solution (?): Apply silicon caulking to minimize the moisture penetration in the gap between channel and door frame before rust starts. More vent opening like the ones on the rear door channels may also be necessary to release condensation from air within the partially sealed space.
I got one better. She runs into me and asks me if I know about the rust problem. Then I play dumb and let her explain it to me and show me on my car. While she's doing that I'm checking for a wedding ring, etc. Then I thank her and say something about how cool it is that she knows all about cars, not like most women. Then I offer to buy her dinner in appreciation for her showing me the problem. And then of course I get her phone number so I can check back with her for updates (on the rust of course).
Two problems I have with that. Why wouldn't Japanese built cars have the same problem and how would this explain rust in my trunk gutter that isn't near any gaps between metal?
LOL I think the rust in my car is starting to creep into my brain.
Mazda better make this right, and do it FAST. Why Ford let this happen is insane. They maybe save 15 bucks a car with some crappy paint process and look at what will happen when the press latches on........CORPORATE SUICIDE.....VEGA, PART 2......GET DATELINE AND ABC NEWS ON THE LINE.....let's get some press out now and force Mazda to step up quick. Anyone know any writers for the detroit newspaper?