Mazda6 Sedan

r2s2

"Nothing kills a car faster than BAD NEWS. Look how long it took Audi to recover from the transmission problem, where their cars seem to go into gear all by themselves. I don't recall what the cause was, but it took years to rebuild confidence."

The "cause" was CBS News's "60 Minutes" which synthesized some stories of hysterical owners who were bad drivers and essentially fabricated the issue of "unintended acceleration" in Audis in order to increase their audience.

Funny, I have also thought of the Audi business as I've observed the mass hysteria here in the "rust" posts. There may or may not be a serious problem; I seem to be one without rust so far. Let's have a reasonable dialog with Mazda and I suspect they'll take care of us if there is a threat to our cars.

And while I'm at it, I wonder if the rust discussions couldn't be taken to the Problems and Solutions board so that those of us who still love to drive our cars can talk about it here unmolested.

mazda6s

Dang, now I gotta look up "onus" to see what the heck that means.

Ah yes, here it is:

onus
A difficult or disagreeable responsibility or necessity; a burden or obligation.

ANT14

As I've mentioned, the process which the body panels are rust proofed isn't necessarily a shortcut the manufacturer did to save money, it's just the process wasn't LONG enough to effectivly work.

I've also been told by someone else, that back in the 80's Honda Civic's had a major issue with rust which the company had to recall vehicles. NOT sure about this since it was mentioned to me elsewhere.

JSTANDER: Ford is already aware of the issue, which is why I mentioned having the IP's sourced to find out where they are coming from.

  I've stirred the coals a bit at Ford and I need to lay low for awhile, but I'll keep an eye on the forum and watch the progress. Good luck to ALL!

buggywhip

Sales of any car drop off in the Fall. The 6 sales drop (right now) probably has nothing to do with the rust issue. But I dread to see what will happen when that issue explodes. This ain't just a bad solenoid or something, this is structural rust...............I caution everyone to be discreet when mentioning rust on their cars. There is a relatively new legal concept called corporate slander, which means a corporation can (in theory) sue someone for spreading false or malicious rumors about their products..........don't get me wrong--I totally believe everyone who claims rust on their 6, and photos don't lie. But let's approach this rationally and wait for Mazda's response. The regional auto shows are coming up soon, let's see what those guys have to say.

aromas

Don't think it's a good idea to contact any newspapers or magazines because in the end us owners will suffer the most when our resale really goes down the toilet.

I'm trying to be patient, although somewhat frustrated, but the only sensible thing right now is to wait and the way cases are growing it shouldn't be too long before we get an official response.

baggs32

For those of us who have not purchased a 6 yet, does anyone know if Mazda has corrected the problem at the FR plant yet?

It is apparent that they do know what's going on and I would think they'd be smart to correct the problem at the source first. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the sooner non-rusting vehicles start showing up on dealer lots, the sooner you current owners are going to see a "fix".

carguy58

Mazda had shut down the Flat Rock Plant for the summer because 6 sales weren't meeting Mazda's standards in the first quarter and a half of this year.

captevans

just thought I'd chime in that I was very tempted by a speedy 6, even to the point of making an offer on one -- rust discussion has stopped me in my tracks here. Wife, meanwhile, is building momentum for subaru legacy, so this rust discussion may well need to be addressed by mazda ....my 2 cents may be headed elsewhere

aristotle

Does anyone know of any dealership still having unsold 2003 Mazda6 S with auto transmission?

Thinking of getting one but worried about the rust issue. May be I can use this to bargain.

cookie01

Lemon law rules vary from state to state, but in most that I've seen the defect in the car has to be one that would cause a "driveablitly" or safety problem. Rust on a car would have to be pretty bad to make it do you couldn't drive the car or that the car was unsafe. Also, most all Lemon Law rules require the buyer to give the seller several chances to fix the problem. No one has done that yet.

Also, for some of us who had to travel to another state to buy the car, you might want to check on the lemon law rules in the state the vehicle was purchased. I, for example, waved all my lemon law rights by buying my car in Washington. I live in Oregon. Oregon LL ONLY covers cars purchased in Oregon. And Washington LL ONLY covers cars licenced in their state.
Those things are tricky... You can't just fall back on them and hope they work.

jeff612

Picked up my 6i on Sept. 30 and a few days later I stumbled onto this board. Sheesh! I checked, (redfire metallic) very carefully and only found 1 pinhead-sized speck on a door frame. Built 6/03 and was on the dealer's lot since August...and we had a wet summer. Watchful? Yes. Annoyed and upset? Within reason. Bottom line: The car is a hoot to drive and the price was right.

Captevans: I just got rid of my '01 Legacy when I picked up the 6. Great car, served us well in some horrible winter weather. No problems at all...real dependable transportation. We also have an '02 Outback.

mazda6s

This is what I got back in response to my emailed question about the rust problem:

"Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.

Mazda is aware of the rust concern some customers have told us they're experiencing with their MAZDA6. Mazda's engineering team has identified the problem, and we're currently working on a solution. The concern seems to have affected only a particular series. If ever there is a concern with a vehicle model, such as this one, Mazda will work to resolve the matter at large and always covers defects under that terms of the warranty.

This matter should not deter you from purchasing a MAZDA6, as it specific to a distinct series and will be fully resolved. If anything, our handling of this matter should demonstrate to you our dedication to customers. We recently gathered information that indicated a concern and immediately began working towards technical support to address it.

In Each Mazda dealership has access to Mazda's Quality Assurance Department via a technical hotline. This is offered to each dealership should they need assistance from Mazda with diagnosing or repairing a Mazda vehicle. In any matters such as this one, technical resources are provided to ensure that each MAZDA6 ownership experience remains a fulfilling one."

chikoo

>>> Suggested solution (?): Apply silicon caulking to minimize the moisture penetration in the gap between channel and door frame before rust starts. More vent opening like the ones on the rear door channels may also be necessary to release condensation from air within the partially sealed space. <<<

Well, my 1999 Protege ES had blackout tape stuck on the channel and the door frame so as to cover up that gap. I guess it worked?

mazdafun

Let's see what they actually do.

1wiseguy

I added my info to the site. Only a small amount of rust so far, but any amount is too much given the newness of the car.

fowler3

I wondered what that black tape was for, it's on my '01 Pro too. Now, I'm wondering what is under it? My first thought was Mazda was hiding a bad paint job; then maybe it had something to do with blending with the black window frames.

"Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you."

Hmmm, doesn't this read like propaganda from some tin-horn dictatorship?

"Mazda is aware of the rust concern some customers have told us they're experiencing with their MAZDA6. Mazda's engineering team has identified the problem, and we're currently working on a solution."

They are across the street at a bar wondering how long they will keep their jobs, and figuring out a quick solution customers will buy.

Aristotle: A dealer in NC has 30 2003 Mazda6's on the lot, many are AT. Various trims: Sport and Value Packages.

fowler3

darmc96h

This post kind of confirms the copy of the e-mail copied above, with the exception of the part where Mazda plays this off as a problem on a "particular series" but, I just spoke to the Service Manager at my dealership and he confirmed that Mazda is currently looking into the rust problem on the 6. He said that he spoke to his rep just this week. He advised me to wait to do anything, because they have not come up with a fix for the problem yet. Mazda US is working with Mazda Japan to find out what happened and what has to be done. He gave me the indication that this IS a wide spread problem (he said 75%) and in his experience, may have to be rectified with a recall. I guess they are looking into things that may have gone wrong with the painting process on the interior portions of the door. So stay tuned. I found it interesting that he and my sales guy both said it was ALL over the internet. He said that he believes Mazda wants to move quickly on getting this rectified. I would still encourage you guys to speak with your individual dealerships and make them aware of the problem if they are not. My particular dealership seems like they have people who monitor sites like this one, but not all dealerships do that. So now we sit and wait.

chikoo

I guess experience speaks....

flatliner

Thought I would share my experience with my 6 so far. Just crossed over 5000 miles. I have a black 6s 5sp (the ONLY way to go) with the Appearance Package and the Bose upgrade sound system. I've been very happy driving my new car since day one. No problems at all. But, I do have a few comments to make. I didn't opt for the leather seats when I purchased my car. I didn't want to wait for a special ordered car, so I settled for the stock interior. Though I like it, I don't feel it's as good of quality as my former Honda (CRV) which also had stock interior. I like to keep a car a long time, and I don't know if this will hold up as long...even though it's fine so far. One sure thing: the mats that come with the car are pretty cheap. My driver's mat is already showing wear. As for the drive: I love the way it drives. But is doesn't have as much power accelerating from a stop as I thought it would. I just expected more from a 220 horsepower engine. Don't get me wrong, though. This car is FUN to drive! The biggest thing to get used to is the clutch. (This is NOT my first manual tranny). You really have to pay attention to avoid harshness between shifts. I've read that in a few reviews elsewhere.

I really recommend the Bose upgrade. The stock radio is really bad. Plus, after market systems may not be available yet that don't ruin the looks of the dash. So the only other option is the Bose upgrade, which is very good. I usually listed at between 17-20, with the bass set to 1, treble at 0. There is less volume from the rear, but that's on purpose: the imaging is fantastic from the driver's seat. I feel the sub works just fine.

A comment about auto climate control: I live in Atlanta, which is usually warm. I keep it set at 74 degrees. At this time of the year, when it's cool outside, I thought the a/c would automatically shut off, but still operate the fan. But that hasn't happened yet. I've even had warm air blowing out, but the a/c is still on. According to the manual, the a/c on/off should be operated by the auto mode. Minor problem, if it is a problem at all. As for the performance of the a/c in hot weather: I think it's great. Best a/c I've ever had.

My mileage has been a slight disappointment. I average about 21.5 miles per gallon, less than I thought I would get, but still okay.

My only problem was my own fault: I scraped the paint from the underside of the front sport dam. Went into an inclined driveway just a little too fast and scraped it that way. So far, I haven't gotten it repainted. It can't be seen, but I know it's there. I'll get it done some day, but I get it won't be cheap from my dealer.

Only other comment: my dealer's service techs (the ones that write up your service order) are pretty cockie and don't make you feel good about using their service center. I think Mazda needs to work on after the sale techniques of service techs.

Sorry for being long. Just wanted to share that my car has had NO problems at all, and drives like a charm. My build date was 03-03.

Good luck to all the other owners. And, if you read this site to get other opinions before you make your purchase, I can tell you now....Just go ahead and buy one! You won't regret it!

ashutoshsm

I was in at my dealership to have them replace my tape deck which ate up the first tape I ever played in it! It wouldn't eject and would say 'No Tape'. Sometimes, on bumps, the tape would reseat and upon switching to Tape mode thereafter, it would play just fine.

The dealership asked no further questions, ordered a replacement, called and mailed me to inform me of its arrival, and took a total of 45 minutes to replace it this morning!

Works flawlessly (for my 15 mile commute) now.

VERY satisfactory dealership & warranty-handling experience. The dealership has (like others, I'm sure) received instructions from higher-ups in Mazda to get their act together, because it was consistently rated one of the worst in the DC metro area before. Today, my first experience with warranty service on ANY Mazda (my previous one was bought used) - and they garnered FULL marks!

mazda6s

Did you check your doors for rust?

ashutoshsm

flatliner

I haven't checked for rust yet. Have been away from this discussion for a few weeks and didn't know about it until now. Will check and let everyone know. By the way, the name flatliner is a knickname I have from my tennis team mates (tennis is big here in Atlanta). Why flatliner? When I return the ball, it just barely clears the net....in a flat line. So, now you know.

Mike

mazda6s

Sorry, I guess I have a weird sense of humor.

chikoo

>>>The biggest thing to get used to is the clutch. (This is NOT my first manual tranny). You really have to pay attention to avoid harshness between shifts. I've read that in a few reviews elsewhere. <<<<

I had the same thing...but lasted only 500 miles.
After that I can shift like butter. No problems whatsoever. All it needed was for the clutch to wear out a bit (break-in) and lose its bite. After that, no herky jerky shifts.

fowler3

I checked the door post on my Pro, that isn't blackout tape, it's black paint. My first impression of why they painted it is the same, so the Sand Mica color on the B-pillar would not show through the door-frame gaps. The window frames are painted black. That whole section is a separate piece of painted steel.

fowler3

regfootball

so far it seems as though there may be some encouraging response from MAzda.

fowler3

car manufacturers test the components and materials for durability before using them in production cars. For instance, the seat materials, they should have a seat department that tests fabrics in advance and order accordingly. The way it looks with the fabric fraying on some 6's, they bought what a supplier offered as their low bid.

Customer Caring, before manufacturing, would go a long way in offsetting frustrations with Customer Care after manufacturing.

fowler3

darmc96h

The unfortunate thing is that with any new product, not just cars, certain defects are just not going to come out in the tests. The 6 was essentially tested in Europe before it came here. However, with regards to the rust problem, obviously something done in the AAI plant was not up to specs and it is coming out now. That is why it is usually good to wait a year or two on a new model before buying one or be ready to put up with some of these problems.

darmc96h

I agree with Chikoo, I am totally used to my clutch and can make this car shift fine. I think you have to get your timing with ANY manual even within the same model because they all feel and shift a little different.

newcar31

You'd think Mazda would have a handle on rust prevention by now. Put Mazda and Ford's experience together and you have well over 100 years of making cars. You'd think they'd know what works and what doesn't work by now. It's 2003, there shouldn't be any issues with rust, ever.

regfootball

agreed. ever. this reeks from cost cutting.

newcar31

I know there is pressure from the bean counters to cut costs, however, it's up to the engineers to find out where to cut costs. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but cutting costs that might affect body integrity is a big no no.

mazdafun

I think it's more from the galvanizing process wasn't run correctly, or was done out of order (say, before welding instead of after).

I know this was several years ago, but I recall seeing a picture of a Mazda galvanizing line and it was a bath-type (in fact, I think it was a door panel being dipped in the photo). I think this is the best type, if there is a mechanism to shake air bubbles off the parts.

I'm not sure what process they use at the Flat Rock plant, but any number of things can go wrong (solution not right, not enough current, not enough voltage etc.).

bullmoosey

I disagree that this problem has anything to do with cost cutting. As I said a few days ago, as a mechanical engineer I see a design flaw here. Not a major one but an avoidable one. If I'm correct this rust problem will eventually show up on every Mazda 6 no matter what production plant it came out of. It is just a matter of time.

Cause: Condensation in a small air gap that will retain moisture and that cannnot be easily be coated or painted. Note that this rust is NOT "structural" as I saw at least one message refer to it. If this little weatherstripping channel is a structural member of the vehicle then we (and Mazda) are really in trouble.

carguy58

its from a design flaw.

Its good to see Mazda responding to this "rust situation" and not looking the other way.

Secondly, As far as Mazda customer service is concerned its good to see Mazda dealers cleaning up their act. They have no choice about that I feel. CR has rated Mazda customer service cosistently rated at the bottom in their surveys.

Finally, This is still very bad with the rust problem that Mazda is having with 6's. 75% as somebody said before is really a big number of cars. Its going to cost Mazda alot of money to recall all these cars.

mazda6s

I understand what you are saying about a small air gap. However, many cars must have these small air gaps on their body work and the manufacturers seem to get them rust-proofed OK. It could be that this area on the Mazda6 is diffcult to coat and they didn't get it right.

aromas

Oh well, in my futile attempt to keep this rust thing a secret from my buddies,(if you knew how I gushed about this car initially in comparison to theirs then you would understand it was necessary) all is for naught.

Went golfing this morning with 2 friends and we decided to take my tRUSTy 6. One friend noticed the rust on the vertical channel in the rear door which is not covered by the weatherstripping. I swear it has spread from 2 weeks ago. He was aghast and couldn't believe it was rusting so fast. He owns an Accord so the Mazda bashing started all the way home without even a whimper from me as I could not offer a defence.

I loved this car and bragged about the handling and it's looks but the passion is gone. It's like your favorite team that doesn't make the playoffs. "Wait til next year". By the time this rust thing is resolved I'm sure it will be next year so I guess that's applicable.

ANT14

It wasn't a cost cutting effort, it was a manufacturing error.

kdshapiro

In the end does it really matter? Matters to Mazda I'm sure, but not to the effected owners. It's a horrible thing to happen to new owners of a new model vehicle.

newcar31

"Note that this rust is NOT "structural" as I saw at least one message refer to it."

You're forgetting about the rust showing up in some people's trunk gutters.

anonymousposts

lol aromas. I would do the same thing if I were your friend. Nothing sounds better to some people than three simple words ... told ya so.

I bet Mazda is actually happy now that sales didn't meet their earlier predictions. More cars on the road = more problems. Unfortunately for them this will not be something they can blame on a supplier.

newcar31

"told ya so" doesn't work in this case.

I never heard anyone saying "Don't buy a Mazda, it'll be rusting at 4000 miles".

Nobody really expected this, not even gee or anon.

anonymousposts

Well, told ya so could apply if the friend said "you shoulda bought an (insert car here)" when they saw the 6 for the first time. Now the friend could say "told ya so, you REALLY shoulda bought the (insert car here)

This is the last thing you would expect with a new car, especially from Mazda.

newcar31

there was no other car to consider for me. I would have kept the Protege if I couldn't have the 6.

regfootball

try to trade a one year old car with visible rust.

accord7

The 6 rust problem is like seeing a beautiful girl, great personality, gorgeous from every angle, cute figure, great eyes....then she smiles. She hasn't been to the dentist in her whole life!!

gee35coupe

She smokes. I hate a pretty girl that smokes. Talk about class less. I saw a picture of Demi Moore smoking yesterday. Killed my whole image of her.

Talking about bad teeth though. Spend some time in a country with no flouride in the water. Ewwww.

dinu01

Couldn't agree more. I defended the 6 for months, but this is too much - this is not some loose gas cap or a rattle: this is right at the core of the vehicle, its skin if you will.

Dinu

doctord33

I'm on the verge of buying either a 6 or a Passat GLS and was leaning towards the 6 until I stumbled across this thread. Question: Have any of you driven the 6 in the snow? How is it? And -- if you could go back, given these rust problems, would you NOT by the car?