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Comments
BuggWhip mentioned Honda and Toyota have bullet proff repuatations where as Mazda is an underdog. I really don't look at it like that. Thats just so called "perception" by the car buying public.
GO BILLS!!!
As far as that issue goes, I have rust on 2 out of 3 of the 6s in my family, the third car has not even been checked yet. This thing has been coming to rise on this community and the mazda6club community just this week. We have no idea how many complaints Mazda actually has about this issue. Basically, they haven't had ANY chance to react yet. So I think its a little to early to hate your car, get your lawyer on speed dial and bash Mazda. Give them a chance. Its very hard to believe they won't react to these complaints and the future ones they will no doubt get when customers get wind of this problem. Give them a chance. Do you like the car or don't you. This may sit sick in the pit of your stomach like it does mine, but I am not prepared to give up on Mazda or the Mazda 6 just yet, and you shouldn't either.
As a buyer I would beware of dealers that may come aware of this problem and get there techs out on the lot with tooth brushes and touch up paint to mask this issue from educated consumers. It may deter you from buying, or it may not. To me it seems like the rust is a relatively minor issue that can be fixed, but Mazda needs to answer that question for sure as well as figure out why it happened and fix it in future productions for once and for all. If you did buy a 6 I would rest assured that Mazda will step up and this issue will be taken care of. It has to.
All I know is I will give Mazda a chance to redeem themselves but if they try and give me the scrape and paint solution then they're gonna have 1 unhappy customer. They may fix my problem but what about all the other 2003 and 2004 owners where the rust becomes visible after the warrenty is up who don't go on the internet and have no clue about this. I find it highly unlikely Mazda would make this a recall issue, it would be way too expensive if it came down to replacing doors.
On another note, I just saw the offset crash score of the '6 and have to say I am pretty impressed. It turned out to be a 'best pick', which rated better than the Altima and right on with the Accord/Camry/Legacy in offset crash tests. Truly a testimony of the car's structural integrity.
As far as the rust, I hope all owners affected get treated the right way by Mazda.
Hmmm, that made-in-Japan Mazda3 S 5-door is looking better and better every day.
This is one problem that is a dangerous opportunity. Do the right thing or maybe see the end. Literally.
This will be most interesting to follow. My heart is out to those who were drafted without their knowledge to play a role in this play.
I think Mazda will probably go the route of most auto mfg.
1. increase their "perforation warranty" - blanket for all cars
2. attempt to resolve "rust" issues as a paint defect...not under "perforation" on a case to case basis.
because with the limited amount of data we have out here, there seems to be no correlation between build dates and this problem.
I think Mazda will have to do some work to figure out why this happened to the U.S. cars. Where did the AAI paint shop go wrong? This should be easier seeing as the Japaneese produced cars seem to not have the problem. Should just be as simple as, looking at the doors from the two plants and figuring out what is different?
Beyond that what can they really do? Scraping it off or whatever won't stop it, they'll have to replace the doors right? They surely won't do this for all Mazda6's because financially it would kill them and in the process kill their image. Offer an extension on the corrosion warranty, fix the problem in Flat Rock and make sure to announce the problem has been fixed, and then hope people forget about it. Same thing with the Honda transmission issue. Costs too much money to replace every transmission, so they'll just extend the warranty.
Comparing the tranny issue is a little disingenuous. Why replace a transmission that is working just fine because a small number of them may fail. That would be as silly as Mazda replacing doors on ALL Mazda 6's whether they have rust or not. Wouldn't it?
I had my MX6 for 10 years without a hint of rust and I never rustproofed it. In fact that was 1 of the selling points for me buying the 6 as I thought Mazda was superior in thier body and paint construction and that would be one worry I would never had.
I actually got the lifetime rust protection package because thay gave it to me for 1\2 price but I'm pretty sure the lifetime guarantee is only for areas they treat which is not where we have the rust.
darmc96h: My cloth seats are badly fraying at the bottoms. I was told by Mazda H.O. that they have rec'd other complaints and have to make a case based on our problems(they took pictures and the Mazda Rep was very cooperative) and that it could take several months to decide. He said it was pointless to give me the same seats in case it happens again. He said they would put in a new fabric but that they need the go ahead by H.O. so that's why they're not in the 2004 cars. Still waiting on it. This is probably the same procedure they'll use for the rust problems so we will be waiting quite awhile before we get any action on the rust issue.
Based on how well they handled the RX-8 HP problem there is reason for optimism as that problem paled in comparison to this. Unfortunately for Mazda this may cause irreperable damage to the company.
Going back to the Honda tranny problem. Let's say it WAS a manufacturers defect that is causing the problem. Since all of them aren't failing at the same time, they instead gave a warranty on those that DO fail. I'll bet Mazda will have to do something like that. Now the $100,000 question is...What is the remedy? Short of a new car, what could they do? Remember Nissan had to buy back all of those Nissan VAN's a while back since all of them had a potential fire hazard. I don't know if rust is a safety issue though.
If so they may be ale to track down the cars made in that line and call them up. From what I see the rust problem is prominent with cars that have thin paint over the bends in the frame.
My car has pretty good thick paint over the frames and there is not rust where others have shown. I had 2 specks of rust at the end of the channel but I wiped them off and applied clearcoat over them. If it still comes back, then I will worry. Till then, Zoom Zoom.
Not necessarily. I used to do body work on taxis in WI and we were able to fix it if it was just surface rust. However, you have to get down to bare metal and prep it properly (like they should have done at the factory). On the other hand, if it's perforation then the only way to fix it is to cut out the rusted area and weld in a new piece of metal, in which case it would be easier to just replace the door.
I have an idea that Mazda already knows about the problem and the cause and is proceeding carefully so as not to cause a big PR event in the news and maybe even some legal action (can you say "class-action lawsuit"? I thought so). Just speculating on that one ...
Unfortunately(or maybe fortunately) my car seems to have perforated at the edges of the door channels so I have a valid case. My techie said the only real fix with perforation is to replace the doors.
My guess is no recall will be issued and they will take it on a case by case basis depending on how loud you complain about it.(If you demand to get new doors or a buyback for extreme cases they would do it just to shut you up and save face)For PR reasons the minimum they have to do is give lifetime warrenties to all 6's against perforation as a goodwill gesture. I think Mazda has to offer a fix before anybody can proceed with legal action. The scrape and paint solution I hope is not even being considered if head office has 1/2 a brain.
So, everyone with this problem needs to head on down to their friendly Mazda dealer and firmly but politely demand that it be fixed. If they balk, tell them you want to talk to somebody higher up. Memorize this sentence, "Surface rust on a new car is a manufacturing defect, not normal wear and tear".
Everybody should send an email to musa@mazdausa.com too.
"I have been hearing reports and seeing photos on the internet of premature rust on the Mazda6, on the door frames. From the description of the problem and the photos this appears to be a manufacturing defect in the metal prep or paint process. This is a concern for me as I was I was planning on buying an '04 Mazda6.
Can you give me the status of this problem and tell me what Mazda is doing about it? Has the problem been corrected for future builds? I like the Mazda6 but will buy something else if the problem is not corrected."
What do you think?
Dinu
Frank W.
I've been thinking for a few months of purchasing a 6, but I was a little concerned about the almost-inevitable first-year bugs that pop up. The seat cloth and this rust problem seem to be the main concerns at this stage.
Those who are experiencing the rust problems are understandably upset, but at this stage just let Mazda know what is wrong and give it a chance to come up with a satisfying remedy.
Third-party recommendations at this stage are just outside noise. Mazda has too much riding on this model to have unhappy customers bad-mouthing the car. Once it establishes what the cause of the problem is, it will have a fix. My past experience with Mazda (two cars) was always positive, and I believe it will make attempts to satisfy current owners. The great thing about new cars is that they all have warranties.
That makes it about 5 or 6 on this board in the club. Too bad we can't put up a poll on this thread to see what the percentage is here. My guess is it's running about 50%. If that is indicative of the real world then the Mazda bigwigs are in for some sleepless nights.
as far as bad publicity is concerned Honda, Toyota, Chrysler and Ford have gone through that(Faulty tranny's, sludge, Dodge Cavarans had problems with Tranny's in late 90's, and Ford had 10 recalls with the Focus. With Mazda they don't have many customers to fall back on like those companies do. If this gets out like on Dateline or something Mazda won't have any future in the US because most of their reputation got ruined by Ford in the mid 90's and Mazda has never made it back to their glory years of 1988-1994.
Now, it seems it may be widespread rust problems with Mazda6 cars from Flat Rock.
This is a time for Mazda to show what it is made of, or to possibly do permanent damage to itself yet again.
Build date: 3/03
Mileage: 9500
Climate: Chicago, mostly dry this summer but some rain.
Garaged
Hand Washed since I bought it.
Thanks for keeping the discussion constructive.
I am an Industrial Engineer by qualifications and have spent my share of time in manufacturing plants which includes sheetmetal working, assembly, machining, u name it.
Assuming it's a particular line or process isolated at a plant, I'd isolate it, fix it and bring in production from another plant in the meantime.
So far as cars already delivered, I'm not sure what I'd do. That's a lot of money. I'd want to make up for the mistake, but don't want to sink the company to do it. Maybe offer something for the affected vehicles like extra warranty coverage, "lifetime" maintenance, or "enhanced" trade-in (more than book value, for exchange with like vehicle)? Ideas anyone?
Your statement implies that there was no process defined and followed. In modern plants such as these, you find deviations and if researched properly, can be assigned the cause of the deviation.
In my opinion, one cannot start with the assumption that there was no process to begin with. not in this day and age.
I visited my dealer on Saturday and told him why I was not buying the 6. He seemed genuinely surprised by the info I gave him. I directed him to this site. Today he called me back and offered me 10 years rust, 10 years perforation and 5 years paint at no charge, just to get my business.
I need to purchase a car within the next couple of weeks and I don't know what to do now. I had made my decision and this comes up. Maybe it's good, maybe not.
like maybe the operator in the night shift might be sleeping and not maintaining a close watch on the product.
But if Flat rock is following an incentive system, primarily based upon quantity, an operator in charge of Zn-glavanizing could very well be reducing the dip time during his shift in order to show "more" production. I have seen this happen more than enough times.
You can also find that link on the Town Hall welcome page - just scroll down and look under the Chat Icon that you'll see on the right side of the page.
See you there!
:-)
What other models are being built at Flatrock, is it only the 6? I think the RX-8 comes from Japan, what about the Mazda 3?
luv2riteluv: If you really have your heart set on this car the only way I would buy it is with a written guarantee that you get a full buyback in case this happens in the first couple of years and a lifetime rust warrenty with door replacement if necessary. If you can get that then they have to give that to all us charter members of the rust club. They'll laugh at you but it can't hurt to try. Otherwise I would stay away until this is all resolved. As much as I enjoy our club meetings here at Edmunds I hate it when new members are recruited.
Meanwhile as Mazda sits around picking it's collective nose lets all see how red our cars can get over the winter. Hang a wreath inside your car by December and have the most festive car for Christmas. The kids will love it.
Nothing beats getting into your car in the morning and inhaling that first smell of rust to go with your coffee.
issue is merely a flawed component within the door
and not a glazing or metal integrity problem!
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only the Mazda6 is being built at Flatrock right now. Eventually I think the hatch and wagon will be built there and also the Ford Mustang, but as of right now I think only the Mazda6 is being built there right now.
The RX-8 is built in Japan, and also all Mazda3's will be built in Japan as well. The Mazda MPV, Protege, and Miata are all built in Japan as well I think. Only the 6, Truck, and Tribute are built in the United States.