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That should have been a omen right there. Never buy a Mazda not built in Japan. It seems they are the only Mazda models that have major problems right now especially when it seems that the Japan built 6's are having no rust cases.
For what it's worth, someone posted on the other board that the Focus in Europe had this same problem a couple of years back and Ford replaced all the doors. Let's hope they do that here then at least we won't have to worry about door dings for the next few months and can park closer to the mall.
From http://www.nummi.com :
***Today, NUMMI has grown to become a company of 5,500 team members who produce three award-winning vehicles: Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe. In 2002 NUMMI began producing a right-hand drive Toyota, Voltz, which is exported to Japan.***
This was posted in the Mazda3 topic. I think it shows not all factories are created equal.
"Mazda’s Hofu plant is the first car-assembly plant in the world to feature a mixed body-assembly line, which means that many different models can be assembled at the same time without interruption of the production line.
This system enables mixed production of up to 12 different models in variable volumes. It can cope with model changes, addition of new models and fluctuations in volumes without making substantial changes to the facility, ensuring consistent product quality, reduced costs and also minimal preparation time required for mass production.
In addition, the body-assembly shop features 700 robots offering 100 per cent automated spot welding."
There's other stuff mentioned in the article as well.
How many have gone to the service/dealership to seek help? And what were you told? List your dealership, city/state.
I have never heard the Miller cycle engine have problems. The Millenia was a pretty reliable car.
I don't have much control over what Mazda officials do, but I can point Ford's people to take a look at the issue and come to a solution.
I Immediately made an appointment with Krown and had the car drilled and oil-sprayed Saturday. They do inside the door frame and guarantee their product to repel moisture and to both prevent rust and stop existing rust from spreading. That's their claim, anyway. Can't comment on how well it will work until a few years have passed.
If there is any rust forming inside because of accumulated moisture (etc) then I wanted to mitigate any damages. Be proactive.
Since the treatment on Saturday I have been parking my 6 on the street (don't want oil to drip in my garage)and I have noticed for the first time just how must moisture is retained inside this car. Took me a while to clear the windows this AM (over and above the scraping of frost).
Could this be part of a common problem? I'm no engineer, but doesn't it make sense that sealed-in moisture is sealed-in moisture, and the same thing that's causing the windows to fog up(maybe the rubber stripping in the doors)is also accelerating rust?
Just my $0.02. I still like the car and only have one complaint- the passenger window makes a clunking noise when raised. If the rust is determined to be a moisture issue, maybe the fix going forward is a replacement of the rubber. Maybe it's an oilspray inside the doors to stop the progression of rust and/or rectify any deficiency left by the manufacturing process, if any. In any event, anyone who lets their car rust and doesn't take some action (only take action that will not void your warranty)is doing himself a disservice. An assessment of damages in a claim requires an analysis of steps taken to mitigate such damages once the person knew or ought to have known about a potential problem.
Maybe the fix could be for Mazda to pay for oil spray treatment for all 6 owners.
Talked to a nice women named Stephanie who said that this is the 1st time she's heard about it. Suprising since luv2riteluv is from Ontario and had also called. She said she'll check if there are any TSB's or recalls on the issue(highly doubtful). She advised to go to the dealer first to get it checked out and they will get reports thru the dealer before I can lodge any complaint thru them. Doesn't seem like Mazda Canada can be taking this too seriously if all the H.O. reps were not notified right after the 1st calls came in weeks ago thru the U.S.
newcar31 has me thinking maybe we should start checking all family and friend's newer cars of all makes to see if this is a common occurrance with other models and maybe not as serious as first thought. Although I can't believe rust at the hinges would be common. I've checked a 1995 Caravan that didn't have any which is disconcerting, you figure that car having rust would be a gimme. I'm going to check my father's 2000 Maxima tonight.
I too have noticed how "sealed" this car is. I use the A/c defroster ALL THE TIME because the windows fog so easily.
I have no rust at this point.
I do have fraying seats. I will complain about this during my next oil change
I'm taking it to the dealer(will also refuse any quick fix there), contacting H.O. weekly for an update and that's it. I want Mazda to see the full extent of the damage and assess it accordingly. Once you lodge a complaint the onus is on them to be proactive and not unsuspecting new owners IMO. Having a 3rd party start drilling and spraying may complicate matters if Mazda is not as cooperative as we hope.
I don't have any rust under the weatherstripping, nor around any of the hinges. I should add that the weatherstripping on the PT isn't around the doors, it's around the body at the top of the doors. Don't know if that would have anything to do with it, but just letting you know incase that would make a difference.
Again, best of luck with everyone who is having problems with their cars. I hope Mazda makes the right choice and takes care of its customers before they are ruined in the US.
Mazda Canada did say they were aware of the cloth seat problem and have had a few complaints and are still determining what the perm fix will be.
vocus: Thanx for your input. Still trying to figure out if other makes having this is a good or bad thing. Could mean that the 6 problem is not as serious as we thought or all new car owners are gonna end up giving the manufacturers one big headache. I suspect that the majority of cars won't have it.
Trying not to let potential problems damper my enthusiasm for this car, though. So far it's been absolutely perfect.
CL
Dealership body shop hack jobs are not a good idea and I think Mazda knows this. My car has 4000 miles and I don't want ANY body work done to it, NONE. They are not going to replace everybody's doors either, that would kill them. If they handled it on a case by case basis, they could kind of amortize the cost of this problem.
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What's ironic for me is that I put a 1 inch scratch down to the metal on the rear bottom inside panel by the rear seat, not on the door but the body side right next to the back seat. This happened about 3 months ago and I've neglected to touch it up. Funny part is that there isn't a speck of rust yet. Are door frames made of a different metal composition to other panels on the car?. Just wondering since I have no clue why the more exposed scratch would not have at least some surface rust.
About 0 I suspect.
There's a difference between me saying "There's a rust issue on the 6" and "There's a problem pertaining to the yadda yadda, on the yadda yadda, and it could be blah blah, and it's happening on the 6". If I cut down the "possible senario", then they will "meditate" (what I call it when they sit on their butts doing nothing) less on a solution.
Although I do ask for current RUST exhibiting owner's to possibly check under the weather stripping around the front windshield, rear windows as well as under the front hood itself. See if there's any rusting there and maybe I can settle the above speculation.
Thanks
Bottom line- Don't do anything that will void your warranty, but if you can take proactive steps that might (and I stress MIGHT) minimize the damage (but wouldn't void the warranty), then why wouldn't you want to take them?
I was going to get the oil spraying done anyway. In Canada it's a necessity if you want to keep your car rust-free given the temperature changes and the liberal use of salt on the roads in winter.
And I checked again closely yesterday. I found my first small rust spot near the top corner of the driver's door.
Have you told him there's other vehicles dealing with the same problem? Now for him to take care of the issue (out of Mazda's pockets) he would have had to contact them, and THEY given him an approval to fix the issue. OR he COULD be nice and be taking care of the issue out of his own pocket. Therefore I would ask if he has contacted Mazda directly, and what have they stated, and/or are they aware of the problem.
The more I'm reading online, the more it seems that the door panels/hood/truck might not have received propert dipping at the paint/body process. And or, it's happening on places where moisture can get trapped in.
The next step would be for everyone that is exhibiting the rust issue, to go to the dealer's and see what they are able to do. This in turn hopefully will allow THEM to contact Mazda, for a possible fix. It's important now that we have more people from MANY different places visit the dealer, so then Mazda is aware of the issue. It's awhile before anyone realizes there's XXXXX customer's that have come into the service center trying to fix this issue.
Next step (after visiting the dealer) is contacting (on your warranty papers) the appropiate number to lodge a complaint (these include Mazda Customer service and/or Dealer-customer relations).... about this impending issue. Also mention you know of other's that are experiencing the same issue. Mention to them the dealership where you took your vehicle in for service.
This will allow them to have a "blueprint" as to who to contact, SEE if they were contacted by those dealerships, and possible have them contact the dealership for more information.
And for those who have sites such as 4DoorZoom, I would suggest you/they install a (referrer software) ASAP to find out if Mazda officials are scouting the sites for more info. I can already tell you, I have a "feeling" FORD has cruised into that site already and I would be interested in knowing how many "hits" were lodged stemming from Ford HQ :-)
I do wish you all luck with getting this issue resolved by Mazda. Keep everyone updated of the changes.
(coming from someone who has no rust on his doors ... 'cept for a spot on the corners of the front doors at the weld/interface, which wiped clean with my finger leaving no residue) I wouldn't worry SO much about it. I think the dire warnings are blown out of proportion, at least until Mazda has been given a chance to respond with a fix and restitution in those cases where its valid. Look over the car (doors and trunk) that you like at the dealership, bring up the issue, see if it helps your negotiating platform, and drive out with an amazing car!
It is truly unfortunate if this issue and any dragging of feet on Mazda's part keeps anyone from buying this totally fun and otherwise well-built car, but if that's the way its got to be - too bad.
Just thought I'd mention - washed and waxed mine again last weekend, looks amazing, and I have yet to exit the car without a smile on my face. 6K miles
the owner of the site has reported this on the OTHER mazda6club/forums website
I told the dealer that there are other cars with the problem, and he admitted that he had see one other car that had been brought in with the sam rust. I think one of the problems is that there's a type of "catch-22" going on here: Mazda (corp.) won't (and probably can't) do anything until dealers report that cars have been brought in and actually fixed, but if an owner (me, for instance) only wanted a "factory-approved" resolution (fix or repair or whatever), then I'm out of luck. The factory is not going to come up with an approved procedure until some brave souls actually let the dealers perform whatever fix each dealer believes to be sufficient, in order that the dealer report the problem to Mazda. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's basically what I was told by the CS rep I spoke to on the phone: they took the name of my dealer, saying that the dealer would be contacted to find out what the problem was and what the fix was, and to report those findings to the company. Then, I suppose, once enough dealers file these reports, corporate might do something. Bottom line- I don't think dealers, or at least my dealer in particular, are going to contact the company BEFORE the "repair" is done.
This is one reason I'm thinking that I should just go ahead and let the dealer do the "fix." If it looks awful or the rust returns, then I'll complain and get the factory involved if the dealer won't make good. If Mazda eventually comes up with a better fix, I think I'd probably be entitled to it anyway, especially if it affected long-term rust prevention.
The cynic in me says that the dealers are beter off eating the cost of repair and not reporting it to Mazda, to attempt to prevent a "national" situation/scandal from happening (as Mazda could deny knowledge, or try to, since they'd have no internal reports of teh problem). Everyone can claim "isolated problems" and maybe lessen the impact on sales. But I'm a conspiratorialist by nature....
VOCUS:
No, mine is the Glacier Silver. The site's adress is in my message above.
I don't understand how rust can form from inside when there's no moisture inside. Rust is a chemical change, it requires iron, oxygen, and water. If one of the three is missing, it doesn't happen/progress.
On my car, there has only been a few minor spots I noticed inside the door. But along the seams I noticed what could probably lead to further rust in the future. I see two metal sheets in contact like this:
------------------- Metal painted silver
+ ++ + ++ ++ ++ + Slight brown color
------------------- Metal painted silver
And this runs along the inside of the doors.
Also I believe the formal process is that people contact their dealers whenever problems arise, and dealers report this data to Mazda corporate. This is to filter out the minor problems that people might gripe about. Mazda corporate has to notice that it's an issue that is more than just a few isolated cases. So in order for this to go through the right channels, dealers are the way to go first. And if the dealer tries to brush you off or you're unsatisfied, make sure to tell them to report it to Mazda corporate and go higher up in the chain.
PUBDEF- You are correct about the Catch22, some people will have to be the Guinea Pig toward's finding a solution to the issue. But personally, I believe having something done, over nothing, is better than the continuing rusting of the doors. But it's vital that everyone visits the dealer and reports the issue, this places pressure upon Mazda officials to rectify the issue.
As to what the possible solutions will be, first they'll have to study all those vehicles coming in for the issue. See the similarities in all of them. (probably the issue I stated earlier from my own conclusions). Then they must test it on their own, and FIX the issue at the assembly plant. During this time they should be able to fix people's vehicles, at a one by one basis. They'll probably try different methods to fix it, or come to some sort of resolve.
To their credit, at least they SEE the issue and understand there's a problem which is VERY important when it pertains to warranty claims. If you read your warranty information, and read through all the spin, you can probably understand that "IF WE see there's a problem, we will TRY to fix it".
As example, few years ago I tried helping some friends with their VW Passat's (talk about unreliable vehicles) who have had foul smelling odor stemming from the A/C. And each and every dealership's service department pretty much stated "Well, that's all perception, I really don't smell anything" and clean their hands off the issue since THEY do not see a problem. This was many years back.. It wasn't till MORE people spoke out that they later found a fix for it and came clean. Although I still say the VW Jetta's interior smells like burnt crayons, but I won't go into that.
So in this case, it's good that now they are able to see there's a problem. It's just up to everyone to visit their dealerships service center's and mention the problem.
Ha! I'm sorry, but bodywork on my car with 4000 miles is unacceptable to me. Guinea Pig my [non-permissible content removed]. If it comes down to it, I'll sell this thing and take a loss and never look back. I should be able to get a good deal on a 2002 Accord.
By having those methods and techniques in place, it means they're obviously doing something different from Flat Rock. Does that one point have anything to do with improved quality over the Flat Rock plant? I don't know, but if one factory is using different methods and procedures compared to the next, there's a possibility the different procedures in return produce an overall better quality car. Maybe in the form of smaller panel gaps, or a machine doing an insignificant job that maybe a human does in another, or whatever. This may translate into different equipment that may be more hi-tech.
Unfortunately I don't have the article anymore, but I read how the Ohio Honda plant in the next year or so was going to change certain procedures and do a few things differently that would translate into a more efficient plant but the article also said I believe higher quality. It wasn't all about cranking out more cars, the procedures would also improve certain other areas that would improve overall quality it said. Even though the article never said it, one could assume some of the Honda Japanese plants already have these procedures and equipment in place.
If number 100 represents the bare minimum standards the Mazda plant should meet, that doesn't mean Flat Rock is 100. It could go over and beyond that and be a 105 compared to another factory that meets all the standards, but may not have equipment and procedures in place that make another factory more effecient, and in return produce a higher quality car.
I hope what I'm saying is clearer. Where a car is made is not a deal breaker for me and if I wanted a Mazda6 and the rust issue was fixed then I would still consider buying a Mazda6 made from there. I'm just trying to show that some factories may have an advantage over another in certain areas. The guy in the article seemed to prefer having his Mazda3 built from the Hofu plant compared to having it built from the Philippines plant.
Also I remember reading that Mazda sent some of their engineers to the Flat Rock plant during the initial launch to make sure everything would be running correctly. I'm surprised these guys completely missed this rust problem. And did these same engineers return to Japan or did they remain there?
Sometimes some issues do not turn up till some time after the vehicles are assembled and driven by consumer's.
Sometimes the old way is just as good as the new way.
"...I read how the Ohio Honda plant in the next year or so was going to change certain procedures and do a few things differently that would translate into a more efficient plant but the article also said I believe higher quality...one could assume some of the Honda Japanese plants already have these procedures and equipment in place."
One could also assume that Ohio was the pilot plant and that Japan, Swindon, et al would be playing catch up over the next few years.
IMHO, I think that the issue at hand is being overblown. I know it's lousy if it is your car. But to condemn a vehicle, plant, and brand based on a handful of cases is going overboard.
Also, one person here noted their body shop said something about welding the door parts together before painting was wrong - can you ask them how they would weld painted components without damaging the paint?
Have you seen the new pictures up on the Mazda6 rust website? They are DISGUSTING! The doors are rusting from the inside out and not just at the weatherstripping weld. Trunk gutters are rusting also----you cannot "fix" that without cutting metal out and welding new metal back in. NO WAY is that going to happen to my brand new car. At this point, I don't think there is anything short of buying back my car that will satisfy me.
As for how bad this problem is for those who own Mazda6 - it's bad. The resale value of our several month old cars has taken a big hit ALREADY, and if Mazda doesn't provide an adequate fix - the hit will be huge down the road.
What has been presented here is a handful of anecdotal evidence - not solid proof that the entire Mazda company is going down the drain or to merit talk of scandals and coverups. Until there is conclusive evidence of a major problem with a certain number of vehicles, what you have is a bunch of fanatics obsessing.
Also please remember, it's just a car. I'd hate to see your reaction to a genuine crisis like sitting by your child's hospital bed.