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Comments
APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2003 Mazda6 vehicles with VINs of 1YV*P80****M00001 to M47672
My VIN ends in M51205, so does that mean that I should be alright? I haven't noticed any rust, but until I looked at this website with the diagram and pictures, I wasn't sure exactly where to look, either. But I have looked around the windows under some of the weatherstripping and didn't see anything. Does my VIN mean I'm "safe"?
This pretty much discourages me from buying any vehicle made in NA, as if the Diamler-Chrysler fiasco didn't. What's so different about AAI from NUMMI and the other Honda and Toyota NA plants anyway (not that they haven't turned out their share of faulty vehicles...can you imagine owning an Accord that's missing several weld spots?)?
And even though the 3 comes from Japan, and is likely to better the Protege in most aspects, it will still bear some negative impact from this 6 rust issue and the weak response from MNAO. MNAO sure can take great cars and wreak their market potential, which really bothers me as I like the vehicles Mazda designs and makes and want to see them do well. I'd fire the whole management chain and start over.
We'll see how it plays out. Hold out for satisfaction.
So I guess Honda's aforementioned response to their transmissions and Toyota's for the sludge were "typical Ford-type responses" too?
Wow! When did Ford finally pull the trigger and buy those two out? I guess I can start checking out X-Plan pricing on a new Accord or Camry too!
There's nothing wrong with taking care of number one if you can't get it for everybody. Sometimes you just gotta play hardball. Everything but death is negotiable.
Who are the REAL "PR gangsters"? Mazda, of course. They issue a service bulletin explaining how to remove "stains" without once mentioning the cause of the "stains". Spin it anyway you want Mazda, it's rust.
The first step is admitting you have a problem.
That's a PR militia that will soon be a PR army.
I wonder if Mazda makes the owner sign a legal waiver if they accept the current fix.
I think some people MAY have rust, due to thin paint on the door sash. Cars having a good thick paint on the door sash might have only surface stains(the lubricant was not able to eat thru the thicker paint coat)
again, I am speculating based upon the pictures on Jerry's website and Mazda's repair bulletin.
"All they want to do is come up with a fix that will work for the long term and move on. This is their plan. We dont need a quick fix that will be a problem 5 years down the road."
Do you think the suggested fix is a long term solution?
Even older Hondas RUSTED thru and thru. Still people want to buy Honda. Mazda made one mistake and per their analysis, it is surface stain, not deep rust, and we have to go on a war to make sure that the devil by the name of Mazda is dead.
BTW: Mazda is the Zorastrian(Persian) God of Wisdom, creator of Earth.
I only hope that this is just Mazda's "first offer". Unfortunatley most US/CA car buyers are clueless and will just roll over and take the quick fix. If Mazda makes the owner sign a legal release/waiver at the time of the fix, then this will reduce the number of those in any further negotiations (or class action).
IMO this is a valid approach by Mazda, and the car buying public might just be dumb enough that it might work. Unfortunately it's a little risky because if not enough owners go for the current fix it will become a PR nightmare for Mazda, and not one that they can afford right now.
I would suggest to anyone accepting the current fix that they don't sign any releases or waivers.
Yeah, the older Hondas rusted, but only after several years, not several months. Not the same thing.
The people here who are pissed off are not "PR gangsters", they're not "bullys", they're not "bigots", they're not "whiners", they're people who bought a brand new car that has rust on it.
again, I am speculating based upon the pictures on Jerry's website and Mazda's repair bulletin."
this sounds like the most reasonable scenario and it would also explain some of the variance of conditions from car to car.
although the cars with "staining" even after the listed production # for cars throws everything into question once again...
guess I should be happy that I've been procrastinating on a new car purchase for so long..
He isn't forced to be here, he does it because he likes coming here and offering insight from a dealers perspective.
He's always "played fair", so don't treat him as if he isn't or won't now.
Surface stains? That doesn't make sense. The stains are coming from rust and in order for rust to form, there has to be 3 things present:
Iron
Water
Oxygen
If the lubricant "was not able to eat thru the thicker paint coat", then there would be no stains at all. The lubricant isn't causing the stains, rust is. How in the heck could "surface stains" form on top of the paint without exposed steel?
This is why I don't recommend most Fords, GMs and Chryslers...bad to very bad experiences with several automobiles made by them. In fact, I recommend against models from BMW, Audi, VW, MB, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Mistubishi etc. based upon research I do on data that is public before I make up my mind on a specific model. I'm not blinded by any mfr. I know that even ones with good reputations make mistakes and lemons. And Mitsubishi covered up faults in their vehicles for years. I don't recommend any of them for just that reason. I don't trust them. I am wary of Honda, Nissan and Toyota as well, due to their hush-hush behavior and rough treatment of customers over bad ATs, sludging engines, missing weld joints etc.
As Mazda's models go, I wouldn't recommend the Tribute, Truck or 6 at this point in time. Shame though, as I think the 6 is an excellent car. Get one so long as it's not built at the AAI plant. If you still want one, inspect the affected areas thoroughly before buying. I personally would stay clear until they really resolve this issue. I am VERY disappointed in their response, as it's pretty much the same as everybody else's. I guess I was hoping they'd behave better.
I have little confidence in this solution unless it's a very minor case of surface corrosion. Flaking and bubbling paint indicates MAJOR corrosion, which this clean and seal method won't fix for more than a few to several months. The corrosion will pop up again, in the same spot, or a different spot on the same part.
Now, I can recommend the others (Protege, Miata, MPV), given their excellent balance of characteristics and reliability, and I do when I think they fit the individuals needs and wants.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
me too
see the difference in attitudes between Honda owners and Mazda owners?
My '99 Mazda protege suffered from a "big" problem, however i discovered it after I passed the lemon law statute in my state or else it was have been a declared a lemon.
Mazda did step forward and provided me with a 7year/100k bumper to bumper 0-deductible Mazda warranty in early 2001, after they could not solve my problem. Yes it did take me writing some letters back and forth, but I was not rude, nor did I threaten them.
So what do I do?
I go out and buy a 2003 Mazda6, hapy with the way MNAO treated me. Hopefully it does not have the problem you guys are having or any other in the future.
The transmission issue and the rust issue are not the same, so quit comparing the two. Honda will replace the bad transmission, on the other hand, it appears that Mazda is going to cover up the problem, not solve it.
These two situations might be the same if Honda decided not to replace the bad transmission and instead "fix" it so that it holds out until the warranty is up.
Called H.O. and the rep said she hadn't heard about any fix yet. Told them that I want new doors or a new car and don't even bother bringing up the silly putty solution and made sure she logged that in.
It doesn't matter if other car companies have defects or Mazda is or isn't Ford. All I care about is getting what I paid for and not have to worry about whether my car is gonna look like a dune buggy in 5 years. Mazda screwed up not me. If that means I'm a PR gangster because I expect fairness then I wholeheartedly agree.
The only thing that suprises me is it took Mazda 2 months to come up with this. It took them 1 day and the other 59 days to determine if they could get away with it.
It seems clear from reading the subsequent posts to my own, that I am in a minority of one. Everyone else here seems to think that however you can find a way to beat up the car company, and get them to solve your own personal problem, is fine and dandy. If the car is out of warrantee, and you threaten to create a great deal of bad publicity for the company in order to get them to fix something that should have been your responsibility, that is not necessarily my cup of tea.
Now I quickly confess that it is much easier for me to take the high road, because I do not own a Mazda6 with rust. I do feel sympathetic to your blight. It is hard for a layman to understand whether Mazda's fix, is reality based, or a short term solution that will leave the people taking it at future risk. Perhaps by sticking together you can get things fixed properly, but some of the rhetoric on this thread about Mazda replacing all of the car doors seems entirely impractical.
Anyway, I will leave this subject behind as it is clear, that most people believe that you do what you have to do to protect yourself, and whether or not you have the legal right to what you are asking for, doesn't seem to be entirely relevant.
Stop making excuses for Mazda - they messed up they gotta fix it. If you paid $35K for a car wouldn't you want to get this resolved by replacing the doors or getting a buyback and a new Mazda6 perhaps?
It's $35K not $50 you lost by betting on an NFL game.
Dinu
LMAO!!
Rust on a brand new car is now simply a "personal problem" and not Mazda's fault.
Mazda's solution to the rust problem, and it is rust to all of those nonbelievers, is to hide it and hope it doesn't eat the whole door away before the warranty runs out.
To all of those people talking about honda and toyota. My response is, who cares? I own a Mazda with rust not a Honda or Toyota. Lets keep this discussion about Mazda.
As far as releases go, anyone who signs one is a fool.
As far as refusing Mazda's solution, doing that would be equally foolish. If you refuse it and the problem gets worse, you will likely lose your case on the basis of failing to mitigate your damages. This is a basic principle of law.
I for one plan to accept the "fix" but will first write to Mazda advising that I want my rust warranty increased to something more reasonable in the circumstances.
Although I don't necessarily advocate Aromas' approach, it's hard to say how I'd react if my car was a rusty as his. And I don't doubt that rattling a few cages will get results.
Does the N series refer to Canadian production models? Aromas- do you have an M or an N?
I do own a Mazda 6s and DO have rust and completely sympathize. However, I have taken on some responsibility and some preemptive maneuvers and started rubbing, yes rubbing, off the rust(notice I said rust, not stain) and touching up the areas. So far, which may come as a surprise to many members on this board, the rust has not returned. Do I think Mazda's solution is a bit non credible, Yes, but maybe not completely off the mark. We have established that rust needs a few things in order to develop and CONTINUE to develop. Iron, Oxygen and water and in this case a corrosive. Well since Mazda is claiming there is a corrosive the alcohol removes that. The sealant removes the O2 and H2O. So what are we left with..........Iron, that for all intents and purposes will not rust taking away the other ingredients.
Do I think Mazda is trying the easy way first,......certainly. But you know what, it may just work. For aromas and all of you that have it bad, this may not be the solution. However everone else should knock off the griping let Mazda try their solution, and enjoy the best car they have driven, this being said after having owned 10+ cars in the last 15 years (very bad and expensive hobby of mine).
I assure you if this solution does indeed prove not to work it will be well within the warranty period as you all have been saying how your cars will currently rot away before the year is out.
Will lawsuits and bad press hurt Mazda? Absolutely.........But it will hurt all of us owners as well. If this becomes a huge public forum, I guess I might as well have bought a Kia or Daewoo, because that is what my car will be worth, rust or no rust.
All I'm saying is if you want a proper fix to this fiasco I'm offering you advice on how to maximize your chances. If you don't agree that's fine it's your car that's bought with your hard earned money.
Mazda won't request you to sign anything if you go for this "fix".(ha ha)They want to make this to appear as minor as possible. Having you sign something makes it seem much more serious which they'll want to avoid.
Simply stated I don't care how it happened. I have rust after 6 months and I want the affected parts replaced because those parts are defective just like I would want a defective tranny replaced. It's a logical solution if you think about it. They had better be pretty creative at what they're gonna do about my trunk gutter as well.
1wiseguy: My VIN # starts with an N also so it probably refers to Canadian models. Guess the #'s are more important than the 1st letter as both our cars have proven.
I am quite certain Mazda will not buy back your car without trying their "solution" first. So my focus at this point would be to get it fixed their way and focus all your anger into getting an extended warranty.
It's nice to see that you feel a responsibility to remove the rust on your new $25,000 automobile. The rest of us feel the responsibility is Mazda's.
In some cases doors may be the answer and until Mazda proves otherwise I am hopeful they will assess that on a case by case basis. If you let them TRY their solution it may indeed work.
I am no big fan of big business or Mazda corporate, but the fact remains that it what this is about, cost effectiveness.
I am really upset that my hard earned $25000 is possibly rusting away, but if you don't do some sort of prevention, it will only get worse.
The fault with this reasoning is that the rusting situation is not the same as someone not keeping up with maintenance. Rust, staining, whatever you want to call it, after 6-12 months is not something that can be attributed to owner neglect, like not changing oil at recommended intervals for example can be when a warranty claim arises.
I do agree that Mazda should be given a perform their solution to owners cars first before people get too much in a huff about it. But for people like Aromas who has visible /penetrating rust forming, this solution is almost certainly not going to work.
I do not want to bash anyone's feelings towards their belief what is the correct solution. I just wish everyone would just have a little faith that Mazda is doing the right thing. They have proved it in the past, let them do so now.
Destroying the reputation of an otherwise great car is not in the best interest of all owners.
Mazda has to much to lose by going public with this. Think of how it would effect sales in Europe and Japan. Catch their ear on a case by case basis and you may be surprised at the results.
Sitting back and demanding and waiting for the "perfect" solution is not at all going to help in this situation. The longer you wait the worse the problem becomes. And as I keep repeating, who knows for the vast majority this may indeed work. For the others I would be right there with you screaming bloody murder.
It seems that Mazda threw a curve and is challanging us to hit it. They may strike us out and prove us wrong, but then again we may hit a home run.
Second point: IF it is possible to totally seal off the door sash cavity, then corrosion will stop once it has depleted the moisture and oxygen in the cavity. The sealer is clinging to the paint, which may or may not have been degraded by the corroding sheet metal. If any of the paint releases from the sheet metal, then the seal is broken and corrosion will continue. Mazda's service bulletin does not detail sealing off the ends of the sash rails. If the tech does not seal off the ends or misses just the slightest spot, the sealant will do nothing more than mask the problem.
Third point: Performing any type of repair to this area yourself can void Mazda's responsibility in the matter. In most cases, you are only treating the visible by-product and not the actual problem.
Fourth point: Mazda's VIN range is unsatisfactory. I have been getting e-mail after e-mail from owners who have rust but are beyond the VIN range. Their service managers have not been able to answer whether or not their cars are eligible to get fixed.
Fifth point: I have been getting reports that new 6's with build dates as recent at 10/03 still have rust on them. Mazda never fixed the problem at the factory. The highest VIN in Mazda's range corresponds to vehicles built in 5/03.
Sixth point: Unless I see something different in the next week or so, this is a classic example of a secret warranty.
I don't think Mazda has even the slightest grasp of the whole issue. I believe they do not know what is causing the problem. I've been too happy with too many Mazda's in the past years to contemplate any other, less honest explanations. However, perhaps a couple of years of good sales and lots of media praise has inflated their ego too much. Where's that needle?
"But the United States has been Mazda's Achilles' heel, with the Mazda6 -- a hot seller in Europe -- proving less popular. Mazda has had to spend more than $2,000 in consumer incentives per vehicle to sell its cars, leading to a first-half operating loss in its North American business."
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/031105/autos_japan_mazda_3.html
Well, if Mazda offered a buyback to RX-8 owners over a few missing horsepower figures, then they sure as hell better offer a buyback for this problem.
"Fourth point: Mazda's VIN range is unsatisfactory. I have been getting e-mail after e-mail from owners who have rust but are beyond the VIN range. Their service managers have not been able to answer whether or not their cars are eligible to get fixed.
Fifth point: I have been getting reports that new 6's with build dates as recent at 10/03 still have rust on them. Mazda never fixed the problem at the factory. The highest VIN in Mazda's range corresponds to vehicles built in 5/03."
Good points. Mazda has yet to contact the affected owners, and what they have stated to people so far has been either far-fetched, inaccurate, or an outright lie.
"I just wish everyone would just have a little faith that Mazda is doing the right thing."
They aren't inspiring faith, so far.