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Comments
Who me? 3 time Mazda owner that has lost confidence.
Even after I have the "fix" performed, it isn't going to keep me from thinking about what may lurk under the seam sealer for as long as I own this car.
Thoughts??
Then apply the band-aid and wait ...
Thoughts??
If your 6 is showing rust and is NOT included in the VIN range, then bring it to your dealership to log the data and give MNAO more information. The dealeship service departments themselves can proactively survey their inventories and resolve any issues ASAP, while feeding that info back to MNAO, instead of just relying on owners to come in and report on it. Of course, this would probably vary from service dept to service dept, in regards to execution.
That's the problem with cars that inspire passionate people. Their responses can be passionate in any direction.
That's also how I judge good, provocative designs: they usually provoke a love or hate response, preferably more on the side of love, of course. Though "blah" might get more sales in the long run, so long as affordable, reliable and comfortable are also in the mix. "Dirt cheap" can also get a lot of sales, even for heaps (witness the ancient and overly-stylized Cavalier).
Thoughts??
That is a problem. This vehicle was aimed at car enthusiasts. Car enthusiasts are usually very picky about their cars. Although rust on any brand new car is bad, rust on a car enthusiasts's car is REALLY bad because car enthusiasts have a lot of influence on their freind's and family's car buying decisions.
Hmm…I dunno.
Everytime I sell one of my cars, somebody that I know usually wants it because everyone I know realizes that I’m a lunatic when it comes to maintaining my cars. Heck, people were fighting over my Integra when I was selling that. I will not, with a clear conscience, be able to sell my Mazda6 to anyone I know or even any private party buyer. When it comes to time to get rid of this car, it’s going to be sold to a Mazda dealer, even if that means that I won’t get as much as if I sold it to a private party.
- The first three digits comprise the World Manufacturer’s Identifier (WMI).
- The next six digits are the Vehicle Description Section (VDS).
- The remaining eight digits make up the Vehicle Identification Section (VIS).
Of the 8 digit VIS, on the '03 MZ6, the last 5 digits are in sequential order, with the newest vehicle having the highest numerical value in the first postition of these 5 digits.
However, I would feel a lot more comfortable if we could have a better understanding of what is causing the rust. Many of us worry that Mazda is simply cleaning the surface and sealing the area. This will of course keep any rust from "staining" the sash. Many of us, after visiting several body repair shops simply do not believe Mazda. We worry about what is going on inside the door. If the Tech does not perfectly seal the door the rust will grow? So why is the rust growing in the first place? With Mazda's explanation 2+2=3. To us it looks like a fix intended to simply get the car past 50,000 miles.
I don't see anything in your words that say anything other than " we are willing to look at other things if WE determine things are worse than originally anticipated." How are we supposed to gain confidence in your words based on the original response from Mazda? I see cars on the lot built in August with the Rust.
The only reason we are not being offered a just solution is that it took MONA so long to detect the problem. We feel like guniepigs. We trusted Mazda to get it right. We fought tooth and nail in these forums day after day dispelling the onslaught of Mazda naysayes.
Now all we hear is, "we told you so."
If Mazda wants a chance they need to earn my respect first.
Mark.
Another problem is the use of touch-up paint. Splotches of touch-up paint combined with a finger-tooled sealer bead just won't look that professional and that is not what we paid for. It would have been better if they resprayed the door sash area... even color matching wouldn't be much of a problem, since it doesn't integrate into surrounding panels.
I think the vast majority of people, including me, would feel a lot better about this TSB if it included an extension on the perforation warranty, even if it applies only to the affected areas. The would show that Mazda truly stands behind the repair.
We would probably also feel a lot better if we saw something that has changed in the assembly process. We were told that the assembly process was changed on 7/22/03. Unfortunately, the VIN range covers vehicles that were built from Job 1 to near the end of May. And, we have seen and heard about brand new vehicles with build dates as recent as last month still having this "stain." This gives the impression that Mazda has not solved the problem, does not care about the problem, or that they are trying to cover up a problem that has been known internally for quite some time. This impression alone will probably send many Mazda6 owners to different manufacturers for their next vehicle.
Unfortunately for me, this rust issue is the final nail in my car's coffin. I have grown to hate the car and I can't wait to get rid of it. I would have loved a buyback because of the rust because it would be cleaner and cheaper than lemon law proceedings, but it looks like I must take that route now. I wouldn't get another 6 anyways, considering my experience with this car. I can't even say I would get another Mazda, which is something I thought I would never say as this is my 5th one. Right now, I put quality and reliability above all else... great handling and performance do me no good in the parking lots known as Southern California freeways. I just want something that I can drive where I want, not back and forth to the dealership. I paid for a Mazda6, not a Cavalier or Sunfire, which are what I keep getting for loaners.
It appears the rust is coming from the gap between the door frame and the weatherstripping channel. No doubt the steel in this gap area is unpainted (it would be impossible to get paint in there by conventional means). It's going to slowly rust and then the stains will bleed out onto the door frame where they are visible.
I don't think this will be a structural issue, but it's definitely a cosmetic issue. In addition, it highlights a glaring error in Mazda's manufacturing process.
Typically, these types of gaps/joints are filled in with body seam sealer during the manufacturing process (before painting). If you get a chance, look at other seams in your car body, such as around the edge of the doors/trunks/hoods where the outer panels are formed and joined to the inner frame -- you should be able to detect a bead of seam sealer (like caulk) in these areas. It fills in the gaps and seams, and then gets painted over.
I am surprised Mazda is not filling the gap between the weatherstrip channel and the door frame. This is exactly the kind of application seam sealer is made for. It is meant to seal concealed areas that could be susceptible to rust and are otherwise impossible to paint.
The fix suggested in the TSB hints at what Mazda should be doing on the assembly line, *before* the door gets painted.
To me it sounds like the soapy-water issue only accelerated the rust formation, but it would have happened sooner or later. Until Mazda seals up that gap at the factory, the issue will continue.
I believe the TSB fix will take care of the problem if done properly. This is clearly a case where the tech needs to take his time and make sure the work is done properly.
Good luck to all those affected.
Craig
Craig
And while I haven't yet had the opportunity to speak with any of our tech specialist regarding this issue, I feel that c_hunter's comments seem logical.
My Protege5's doors have the same sash cavity on them. The big difference is that the Protege5's paint and finish in this area is impeccable. My Mazda6's paint and finish in the same area looks like they were painted by a 2-year old. Even the 2004 (build date 10/03) I looked at the other day had ridiculous paint quality in the same area. I couldn't find any rust on that car, but it was sunset and the car was that new orange/copper color.
I think all the sealer will do is seal the sash cavity opening and not fill the entire cavity. The bead being applied is tiny... certainly not enough to fill.
I still want to know why the lubricant reacted negatively only with some of the paint on the door sash and not with the paint on or in the door sash rail, which should have gotten the majority of the lubricant.
I am sad to see some of you long time Mazda faithfuls beginning to turn away from the brand, yet I know plenty more newcomers just who just LOVE their 6's, rust/stain be damned....
I'm just HOPING those that are leaving the brand because of this incident don't become an adversary against the carmaker and start trashing Mazda overall by keep mentioning this episode whenever a newcomer drops by to inquire about getting any new Mazda.
Also, can someone point out to me the exact mistakes these guys are making in the TSB which might cause the rust to re-appear? I couldn't understand jstandefer's post above (not sealing the sash cavity). My service manager is being very helpful, and has promised me a chat with some Mazda higher-up.
Technically, the rust won't re-appear. It never disappeared. It's there now, it'll be there when they perform the TSB, and it'll be there when the warranty expires.
For this fix to work and stop or significantly slow the rust, the sash cavity must be completely sealed from moisture and oxygen. Remember, the humidity in the air, when 50% or higher, will cause rust. The TSB does not detail sealing the ends of the sash rail and cavity, which are open. This will still allow air exchange into the sash cavity. See this picture of a bit of my car's "staining." That end where the "staining" is will get the sealer along it's vertical edge, but the horizontal edge at the bottom is not called for sealing in the TSB. Hopefully, the performing technician will seal it anyways.
Same with the 3
Dinu
I RUBBED off this rust painted over it with touch up paint, which by the way is not at all noticeable, and the rust has not again reared its ugly head.
What I think has happened is that the areas with lighter applications of paint have been affected from the so called soapy solution. Once they are covered and touched up the rust will cease.
To me it just underscores the importance of a company being a bit too aggressive in trying to take shortcuts or cut costs in the manufacturing process.
All companies do it though, can't blame em.
A mainstream bread and butter volume product with low profit margins is NOT the product to start taking chances with or making production shortcuts. No sympathy for MAzda from me on that one. I am sure they will make some sort of attempt to step up though.
My point to make is that body and paint integrity / rust is NOT the place to take a chance on new and unproven or cost cutting methods. Why not just use what works. Honestly, screw the environment. If this new process made tiny incremental benefits to the air quality within a 2 mile radius of the manufacturing plant, who GIVES A RIP if all the cars rust away?
Who am I to talk. Ford decided to spline fit sprockets to the camshafts on my car and its a big problem on the v8 Taurus. An obvious design and manufacturing defect. Yet they deny it all in hopes of letting it go away over time. My cam sprockets could let go at any time like many others to the tune of mucho $$$$$. At least give Mazda credit for trying to do SOMETHING to fix the problem, and being somewhat communicative about the deal. A few hours in t he body shop is a lot better than driving a day or tow to some shop somewhere to pull your cam covers and WELD your sprockets to your cams to keep them from slipping because of a FORD defect they have always known about and won't acknowledge or fix. (otherwise the car is a paragon or reliability).
on a lighter side, (not STAINING) hook up with your work buddies and let them know this IS NEEDED....
-car audio
--get rid of Bose.....we want miniplug input jacks on the stereos to plug in our Nomads and Ipods (or could they do bluetooth now?) Its about time a car mfr. adds the miniplug for portable mp3's and pda's to plug right in. Mazda could so start the wave and ride it for audio lovers to be able to do this....and it would be cool for Mazda to get 5.1 car audio and be dvd-audio and SACD compatible. What a marketing tool that would be! NOBODY HAS MINIDISCS ANYWAY!!!! And how about satellite radio?
-push for the wagon and hatch to both have 4 and 6 cyl, man and auto available. Either could very well be my next car and I really want one with a stick and advanced audio features. Don't make me buy the 9-3 or TSX!
BTW anyone want a 40gb Nomad mp3 player? I'd really like to sell it and get an Ipod. Works fine, just kinda bulky.
The Mazda6 5 door goes into production in February for delivery to the dealers in March. Dealers are specifying their first vehicles now. Initial production will be all 6 cyl automatics and option combinations will be limited, for start-up production simplicity. The 5 door will be available in subsequent production periods in both 4 cyl and 6 cyl, 5 speed manual or automatic. All 5 doors will have the cool looking sport package body trim. Option order combos will increase as production goes on. I haven't seen specs for the wagon, but guesstimate that drivetrain options will be similar. I hope so, I want to drive one as a company car!
I'll pass your audio comments onto our product development people.
Check out the accessories section of www.mazdausa.com. We offer a wide selection of audio components that can be added to most of our vehicles. They come with modular units and installation is simple.
- Mark
I immediately called the H.O. rep I've been dealing with who restated I've been the only Canadian owner who has brought the rust problem up. I then said that in no uncertain terms that you better get a Mazda rep out to my dealership real quick to check out my car and I DEMAND a full explanation on why this happened and what they plan to do about getting rid of ALL MY RUST and tell me why I shouldn't be getting new doors and whoever calls better not be arrogant about it! It seems to me Mazda can't be taking this too seriously if they haven't notified the Canadian office as of yet.
Has any Canadian owners contacted H.O. to tell them about the rust so I know if the rep is giving me the run around. I find it hard to believe that they don't know anything about the rust.
So when do you suspect we might see the manual trans models available? April maybe?
The rust is growing and spreading on many of these cars. And it's not just limited to the areas covered by the TSB and they are on cars still coming out of the factory. Looking at the big picture, this TSB won't do much except delay further corrosion somewhat. The problem is not fixed at the factory and Mazda is shooting themselves in the foot.
Oh yeah... for those Mazda lurkers out there... if your QMD techs really wanted to use my car as a test model to attempt to clean the rust off, all you had to do was ask. Or next time, at least put the weather stripping back in completely and do a better job cleaning the rust. I don't appreciate my car being used as a guinea pig, especially when I am not informed of it. BTW, the rust you cleaned off has already returned.
I still do not think if you cover the rust after removing it that the rust will return. At least no time soon. It would need to be getting air and moisture, and if is is properly sealed/coated it will not return. You just have to get to it before it goes out of control, which is why I hit it as soon as I saw it. So far my rust problem has been minimal. I still have every intention of bringing the car in to do "the fix". I have all the sympathy for all those affected, but you need to start being pro active and get the fix done so the problem does not get worse. Like I have said before, you never know it may work.
The one piece of the Mazda6 interior that I am not crazy about is the Titanium colored piece of plastic in the center of the front console. Have you seen any alternatives to piece of plastic?
Thanks
Rv
Regards,
Rv
I for one will question if I will purchase a Mazda mid size sedan in the future because with the 626 10 years ago and the 6 now Mazda messed up both cars. The question is why should I have confidence in Mazda's mid size cars when they have messed up 2 of the last 3 generation Mazda mid-size cars that were made?
This is not Fords' fault it something workers in the Flat Rock plant totally missed before painting the car. Did the workers not rust proof the car enough or from what I have heard there is some kind of solution you have to put on the car before painting it. Was there not enough solution on the car before painting it?
I would buy an MPV and thats probably all I would probably buy from Mazda. The 3 I wouldn't buy because its a compact car and now it has 60% component sharing from Ford which worries me. The Miata is too small. The RX-8 is RWD which I don't like.
Finally, when the changeover from 03 to 04 models happened did the Flat Rock plant re-tune so this rust issue would not happen with 04 6's?
Lastly, like the Big H said all this tech-talk boggles my mind. Its looks like I will be buying Honda's all my life since Mazda is the boston Red Sox of the auto industry: just can't seem to get their act together. To me the Ford AT's were Mazda's first shot in their coffin. The finsher in their coffin is this rust issue. Mazda was given chances to get more customers with the great styled cars of the 93 626 and 03 6 but never cashed in. Its like the Chicago Bulls teams of the 90's with Jordan on them teams never put the Bulls away and let the Bulls hang around. Mazda is like the team that never can put the competition away. They just let Honda and Toyota take their customers right away from them and Mazda even beats themselves? Does it get any worse than that? The answer is no.
I certainly would hesitate to buy a Mazda6 though until it is shown that the problem has been totally solved, and a new manufacturing process has been implemented.
My feelings exactly. Since Mazda is taking this incremental approach to fixing it, it could take several months or even years before we know the final resolution. I really don't want to wait that long to buy a new car, so I may just buy something else. I suspect I'm not the only one thinking this way. The folks at Mazda will probably watch sales figures and won't get more aggressive on this fix unless it appears that it is hurting sales. I'd like to see them be more proactive.
From Jerry's previous post: "Fourth point: Mazda's VIN range is unsatisfactory. I have been getting e-mail after e-mail from owners who have rust but are beyond the VIN range. Their service managers have not been able to answer whether or not their cars are eligible to get fixed."
So Mazda is basically telling some owners that they aren't even eligible to get their brand new, rusting cars fixed?!? How can they have such nerve?
This problem could be the one to finish Mazda for good. They introduced 2 great new products within a couple months of each other (RX-8 and the 6) then have major problems with both of them (this is more major than the HP issue with the 8 though). I am really surprised at Mazda. They have a great product, but lately their attention to detail has been slipping. Must be Ford's influence...
As far as some peoples' opinion of 'aromas' being a PR bully (for lack of memory to what he called himself before), I can't blame him. I would definitely feel the same way if my brand new car were rusting away from underneath of me.
Good luck to all of you in getting what's rightfully yours.