By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
1) Will threats and relentless pressure cause Mazda to do something? Yes eventually, but at what cost? Mazda obviously is having trouble in this market, and I do believe it is their own fault, however can you imagine if they pull out like Daewoo? We are all left stranded with rusting, no parts etc.
2) Do I have the answer? No, but I still think that all but the most affected, aromas,jstandefer, would still benefit by their current fix, as lame as it may seem.
Think about this..........If this does not fix the problem they are going to be in even more serious trouble later when door frames fail, and cars slowly rot away. This would be not be good for their image would it?
I have also noticed that the source of my rust is the J channel that holds the weather stripping, as well as the pieces of weld that hold it to the door. Is is possible this metal is of different composition than the door frame itself. Aromas, is the actual door frame rusting or just the J channel? Just curious, maybe Mazda N.A. is using a different supplier??? This would also explain the trunk as there are weld points there also.
This is definitely concerning for me. I have a 6i with a build date of 11/02 that falls within the range. However, I haven't really noticed any rusting or "staining" upon inspection. Could it be that just some are affected and others are not?
I'd band together, hire a consultant, and get some hard data. You may not like what you hear - that the problem is primarily cosmetic and Mazda's fix will generally cure the problem.
- Mark
For light cases (rust stains, but no flaking or bubbling of paint), this solution will probably work. After all, once oxygen is depleted, the corrosion will stop (though it can migrate, though as such a slow rate as to be insignificant). Of course, this depends on how good of a sealing job the tech does.
For more severe cases, replacement is warranted. The issued TSB doesn't provide for this option. And $250 doesn't cover a lot for good body work, which probably means stripping, prepping and repainting. It'd probably cost almost as much as replacement.
And the most disconcerting part is it doesn't seem to be really limited to the stated VINs, which suggests to me they still have an ongoing issue at AAI.
On a good note, Mazda Corporate's profits doubled in the first part of the year, based mostly on increased sales in Japan and Europe. Of course, the 6 sold in those regions aren't exhibiting the rusting the ones made at AAI are, and the design appeals more to their tastes. We seem to like big, cushy vehicles, but there definitely is a market for vehicles like the Protege and 6, of which I'm a part.
As far as what rvwink said earlier about aromas's handling of the problem with the 6 year old Honda, I do question the validity of his response there.. sorry aromas, but I do!
But when it comes to his Mazda rust situation, he deserves a better result, and his more aggressive tactics would be warranted if no further corrective response his given by Mazda.
Aromas more serious rusting/staining/whatever example is one that has yet to be acknowledged in Mazdas scenario, and therefore, there is not yet a designated/authorized remedy procedure to rectify this more acute problem.
If Mazda does not eventually approve a better remedy (new doors? rust removal and repainting with special rebate to compensate for lower resale?, etc.) to the worst examples, then he has every right, within legal limits of course, to get his problem fixed to his satisfaction.
Yes. It is totally possible since the J channel is welded onto the door frame.
Combustible1 thanks for the support.
This leads me to arockwel's comment.........
"Has anyone with rust *proved* it is rusting deep inside the doors and not just the surface? Has Mazda proved that it is not? Anyone?"
Do we really know how far and deep this goes?
Aromas and a few others may be able to claim a deeper problem, but for most it IS a surface problem.
"For light cases (rust stains, but no flaking or bubbling of paint), this solution will probably work. After all, once oxygen is depleted, the corrosion will stop (though it can migrate, though as such a slow rate as to be insignificant). Of course, this depends on how good of a sealing job the tech does."
Totally agree...............
how many of you had the channels fall of due to perforation?
I am willing to give Mazda a chance before shooting them. Let them fix the car. If the rusting, oops, staining does not stop, you have every right to get on the soap box. I will also get you the soap box, if you will.
I fail to understand why they don't want the fix to be done in the first place.
Point being, the feeling I get from reading some of the earlier posts is that people think the doors are made of tinfoil. I don't want to take away from the problem itself, but I highly doubt the structure of the doors will rust away in 5 years.
I just want to throw this out there for you all. Say the doors were rusting from the inside out, but you couldn't see it until 3 or 4 years later when it began to eat out the seams. Then what would you have done. Obviously, the rust doesn't form overnight. It takes years just to perforate which means it may have been there from day one. Would you go back to Mazda and complain because your doors were rusting from the factory.
Again, I mean no disrespect to those of you who are totally disgusted with the current situation, as I would be too. I'm just wondering.
I have a 6s MTX with a light case of rust. My feeling is that the tsb fix will be effective for my situation. I hope those people with the worst cases of rust will allow Mazda an attempt to fix their car (to their satisfaction) before starting a class action lawsuit or trying to create as much negative Mazda publicity as they can. I just feel we should let Mazda fix this problem in a way that works for each owner and allows the company to survive to make more cool cars. It is too early to be wanting to drop an A-Bomb on Mazda.
If I have problems 5 years down the road, or even 7 years down the road with these doors, the problem has been documented. I don't care if the car is out of warranty, if I have problems with these doors, I am going to flip.
If they don't want to take care of it down the road, out of warranty, I'll drive my friggen car right through the front door of the dealership and then start it on fire. Actually, screw the dealership, I'd make a road trip out to Irvine and drive it through MNAO's front door....
OK, I'd feel like doing that, but I (probably) won't do that.
They are rusty. Do I feel like the car will fall apart or the wheels will fall off. No. Because it is SURFACE rust.
Mazda6 says it all............
"I don't think the doors are not rusting through from the inside. There just hasn't been enough time for this to happen. Bare metal will rust in a matter of days if it gets wet, but penetration through sheet metal takes a lot longer. It's surface rust, and as such it's repairable. The big question is whether or not Mazda's current "fix" will work in the long term."
Will it work long term, who knows but as Newcar31 says "it is documented"
Try the fix then if it doesn't work we all get together and drive our cars collectively to Irvine and hold a huge press conference and force Mazda to use our cars in a great big RUSTING sculpture to forever stand in front of their headquarters.
I like the A-bomb idea better. We need to get a hold of a B-29 and a decendent of Little Boy and Fat Man.
Finally, a Japanese Car made car in the US isn't bad its just typical Mazda mess up. This is Mazda's fault and not even Ford's problem. When you don't take care of your customers you don't deserve to be in business anymore.
That being said, it's too early for most of us to be considering legal action. It is for me, anyway. I'm a lawyer and recognize that you often have to take a step back and remove yourself from the emotional aspects of a case. Right now, my main concern was putting Mazda on notice that I had rust and that I wanted it fixed. Once the fix is done, if I see any more unexpected rust, Mazda will get another letter.
We should all take the approach that we give Mazda the benefit of the doubt, but protect ourselves in the event that their remedy falls short of what should have been done.
Lawsuits are expensive, time consuming and emotionally draining. They are also often not economical. A suit right now would cost more than the damages are worth, assuming you retained counsel and brought in proper witnesses (i.e metallurgical engineers). Even then, short of ripping your door open, everyhting is just speculation.
It's too easy to misunderstand the written word. Back off of the retaliatory comments please.
If anything needs fixing, it's MNAO and the AAI.
Of course, the issues with the RX-8 are mostly Japan's plant's fault. Some of them are user-related though (rotary engines ARE somewhat different from reciprocating piston engines, and hey, a lead foot is a lead foot).
==========================
Thank you for your comments. There seems to be quite a bit of
misunderstanding on the internet about the source and solution for this
concern. We understand your questions, and we will be working with our
technical engineers to be able to provide you with a more thorough
explanation of the matter soon. We hope to have more information for
you sometime next week. Rest assured, I will follow up with you at that
time.
Regards,
Jennifer Gray
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
misunderstanding on the internet about the source and solution for this
concern."
Misunderstanding? What else is there to understand?
The door sashes are staining...err..rusting and Mazda wants to remove the rust (that is not easily accessible) with a spatula and some rubbing alcohol and then use seam sealer on the seams.
Please Mazda engineers, tell me that there is more to it....
Jennifer Gray, now working at Mazda not on the silver screen, I thought baby got put in the corner...., no wait, she DIDN'T get put in the corner...NOBODY PUTS BABY IN A CORNER.......
I totally respect those who will go for this goofy fix, it's a lot of trouble to take my route. I might even go for it if Mazda can explain the reason for it and how this fix is 100% effective.(wishful thinking)
What would be disasterous is to not at the very least demand a lifetime warranty against the doors rusting. If Mazda is so sure about the fix then it's not costing them a penny to give you this. If they don't oblige then something's up. Hoping that Mazda will act in good faith 6 years down the road if it's crops up again is idiotic without a written guarantee. Then you'll have to do what I did with Honda when I believed they built a defective door and shouldn't have to be replaced in 6 years, a year after my sister's extended warranty ended.
Pretend you are the head of Mazda and the techs tell you that a real fix is new doors or a temporary fix is the silly putty. What would you do? I rest my case. Putting any faith in a big corporation is asking for trouble. They are interested in thier bottom line and customer satisfaction ends when it really starts costing them.
Yeah, like we don't understand how rust is just "staining".
If so, I'm a little worried about you.
maybe you're having a bad flashback.
Even if the Mazda fix is a good one, I can no longer find the car spec'd out the way I want, as it was only configurable the way I want in '03 model year. (The '04's won't let you get safety stuff without getting a bunch of other stuff I don't necessarily want).
now my questions are more in the line of.. "will the 3 be big and quiet enough for my needs?" or "do I splurge and get the Navi in the TSX?" and "how much am I willing to pay for a TSX?"
Quiet is another question.
Anyway, Mazda's profits are up 50%. Their sales have increased a little more than that, and it's driven primarily by increases at home (Japan) and in Europe, but not in NA. Chalk it up to MNAO and AAI to ruin another great Mazda vehicle. They ruined the 626 with that lousy Ford AT, and I think they have ruined the 6 with this widespread rust issue. They really needed to allay the fears of consumers, but their attempt (while probably fine for most cases) does feel somewhat half-hearted. I hope Mazda can get themselves out of this, as it will hurt the prospects of other Mazdas, even if they don't have any problems.
my size concern is only in regards to trunk and pass-through space. I want to be able to toss a mountain bike in there, taking the front wheel off if necessary. Maybe that 5" of difference between two is the difference in being able to do this or not.
And I don't want to use any racks, as they hurt aerodynamics and expose you to potential theft. Nor am I going to consider the hatchback.. I'm just not a hatchback kindof guy.
ok, so what kind of guy am I??
don't go there, smart alecks!
In response to my question "will Mazda be offering similar concessions to MZ6 owners in response to this rust defect that they offered to RX-8 owners in response to the
horsepower issue?" I received this:
"In regards to your question, no, there will be no programs related to
the concern with your MAZDA6 that will be similar to the RX-8 one that
you referred to. This is a warranty matter, and it will be handled with
a warranty repair. Your warranty will remain on your vehicle and
protect against any perforation for its total term of 50 months.
Remember, your warranty is in place specifically for the stated purpose
of addressing any defects in materials or workmanship. We will
certainly stand behind our products and our warranty by providing the
service that the warranty it is expressly constructed to offer."
So, there you go, people. Absolutely no effort on their part to go beyond their physical fix. I will not buy another Mazda.
Does this suck? Yes it does. But I still do not see how you could expect a buyback.
It seems you are not happy with the car itself because if Mazda did offer a buyback you would not be able to get another MZ6.
We are not as blind and oblivious as many make us to be. We do have a talented staff across the globe involved in your concerns.
Regarding the stain issue, I'd counsel that you allow your dealer and Mazda to perform the TSB. As you see, the first action is to inspect the vehicle. At that time, the dealer service manager and or our Field Staff will determine the severity of your individual conditions. We gather our technical data by physical inspections, which tells us much more than internet photos or posts. Should we find conditions beyond our initial anticipation, we can modify recommended repair procedures. Allow our eyes in the field (dealers and Field Staff) to inspect, document, and attempt repair of your vehicle. That's your first step. And as this is not a safety but a warranty issue, a repair is advised rather than a recall. When body shop repairs are necessary, the $250 mentioned in the TSB is the dealerships' self authorized spending limit; some dealers have higher allowances. Should your vehicle require more costly repairs, they will be performed. It just will need an approval from a Mazda rep when it comes time for Mazda to pay the dealer's warranty claim.
Mazda is indeed the underdog in North America. We are having tremendous growth in Europe and Japan. We need your support and patronage; we need the MZ6 to succeed. Sales have grown steadily since introduction but the ultra competitive US market has made our task more difficult, with the deep pockets of GM setting the bar. The MZ6 is a phenomenal product, as is the RX8, MZ3 and the rest of our line. We have lots more in the pipeline to look forward to. Please give us a chance by working with us, not against us.
And the whole (250, or more if needed, on a case by case basis) thing was so obvious. I wonder why some people still had their underclothing in a wad. Make your appointments already! And lets talk about the coolness of the car (and of course, your stain-fix experiences, which I assume will be satisfactory across the board!)
That said, mazdaman, the point about this being a repair and not a recall is taken, and accepted. Howver, I would be MUCH happier if Mazda were to ...
1. Update the VIN list as cars outside your VIN range ARE exhibiting the same symptoms
2. Be PROACTIVE and send a letter to EVERY M6 buyer in that (extended) VIN range to the effect that : "Folks, Mazda has been made aware of this issue (use whatever description you chose) ... not all cars may be affected, yours may or may not ... but for your peace of mind, and just 'coz that's the kind of company Mazda is ... please call your dealer and set up an appointment for a quick inspection of your doors and trunks ANYWAY"
Now THAT would be balls-y and much appreciated. Can you imagine the spike in good-will from the bulk of buyers? Yeah, there will be some who will cry foul and make a ruckus, but the rest will be glad Mazda brought this to the fore, and offered a free inspection to determine extent and range of the fix.
Since the inspection is but a mere 0.1 hours of labour, this would be around 5000 hours of labor, plus 50,000 envelopes and letters. You will catch a bunch more cars with issues, but it seems like only a small percentage of cars are showing the stain.
Much better than a protracted period of time over which people (who aren't online on this board or the OTHER one) discover 'stains' on their own and raise a ruckus!
So I guess I AM a hatchback sort of a guy. Not a wagon sort of a guy, though.
Let me explain the problem as I see it. In repsonse to an incorrect horsepower figure Mazda offered generous compensation to RX-8 owners to keep customer relations and word-of-mouth advertising positive. In this case, Mazda produced a vehicle that was sold with surface rust, but should have been sold in new condition. The rust is not the same as a defective part that can be swapped out. In that case, I would not expect Mazda to go beyond a warranty fix. With the rust problem, though, we have a compouding defect that is the result of an error in the manufacturing process. Such a problem apparently does not compel Mazda to go beyond the bare minimum for their customers, but a misstated horsepower figure does. This is not to say that I think we deserve something because RX-8 owners received something. I mention it only to show the duplicity and inequity of this situation. Some people may be happy with a company that does not go the extra mile, but I prefer companies that will go beyond the bare minimum for their customers. I thought Mazda was one such company from their prompt, generous response to the RX-8, but I have since changed my opinion.
My advice to Mazda is that your two biggest assets (particularly in relation to the MZ6) are good word-of-mouth advertising and customer relations. To that end, Mazda is doing a poor job in response to the rust defect.
I'm glad to hear that for those with cases that require more body work than can be covered by the $250 "self-authorized" spending limit, they still can be approved, just with additional inspection. I think that will make many folks here feel better.
I think most owners will work with you, as many really like their 6, if they get clear answers to their questions and some confidence in your solution. It's just that some have pretty bad cases of corrosion. I'd be as upset as they if I were in their situation.
While I have your eyes, what will be done for folks whose Mazda6 also exhibit corrosion stains, but whose VINs fall outside those mentioned on the TSB?
If the solutions prove to be satisfactory, and MNAO's responds positively to concerned owners, I will be much happier. I think Mazda designs great vehicles (my wife and self having owned 3 to date) and I want Mazda to succeed (so I can still have Mazdas to choose from when I make my vehicle purchases...as I've stated several times, I like Mazda's design philosophy). I think some bad mistakes have been made in manufacturing and marketing them.
If things work out well, I'll be considering the 3 hatch, 6 hatch, 6 wagon and RX-8 for my next purchase. Most are fun and practical. The RX-8 would be a midlife-car kind of thing.
And my comment about staff lurking the web, that was my response to the reported cluelessness of the staff at a dealership someone posted here in regards to the rusting issue.
I should add that the Mazda6 was my choice over the competition for the same reasons that the 626 was my choice back in 1986 when I bought one new. That car went 244000 miles without a major problem, and was still running when I traded it in. With the Mazda6 I was convinced that Mazda had finally found their way again, but this rust thing has given me serious doubts.
As I've been involved in both the corporate and retail sides of the car business for more than 20 years, I've seen vehicle issues handled every which way. It takes time to gather info, analyze it, and produce a solution. And sometimes after an initial fix, it's found that more is needed (anyone remember '90+ Infinit Q45 A/C upgrades?)
Should anyone's MZ6 fall before or after the VIN range, we'll fix it! I'd surmise our engineers determined the VIN range from plant production records. But by your notifying your dealer, having your concern inspected, we are able to gather more real data. Only then can we be certain the total scope of the situation. If it proves greater, more action on our part will be developed.
Thanks again for your support.
"Got an Envoy instead... but wished I had gotten the 6. It's so hot!"
I was the envy of all.
Calling rust "staining" doesn't work, but I can understand why they did that. Admitting it is rust would be picked up by the press and who knows else, and just make their PR problems worse. But, the current repair it looks like a band-aid, not a real fix.
If you check my profile, my personal car is an '85 Benz wagon. It's had all sorts of corrosion work done over the past decade. Some minor, some severe. Of all the procedures performed on my vehicle, the "staining" and corrosion has not re appeared.
I appreciate mjvchicago's experience...that's what we hear regarding the MZ6 all the time!
Do you see how this can get out of contol????
This might look like a band-aid or a "cover-up", but this fix is what they determined AT THIS POINT should work for most cases. And may actually SOLVE the problem. The only problem I have is whether or not COSMETICALLY it will look right.