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Comments
The steel used for those weatherstrip channels must be pretty crappy for it to rust so easily even where painted (like on the edges). Seems like it was not treated/primed or something. Could just be poor quality steel.
Craig
I just test drove a 6s for the 1st time today and liked almost everything about it enough that it's at or near the consideration list. It's a shame to hear about this issue within hours of being so impressed.
They don't seem to think so. They appear to think that they can save money by using this cheap, band-aid approach. Refinishing or replacing the doors would cost a lot more. Unfortunately their approach has considerable risk because if it doesn't work and the rust returns, the car mags and Consumer Reports will be all over this like flies on you-know-what. That will be a PR mightmare for Mazda that will be hard to recover from. Still, looking at the current remedy, it appears they are willing to take the chance to save some money. Maybe the people that came up with this TSB are the same guys that were in charge of making sure the rusty doors were finished properly at the factory.
So, if you are going to lease you should make sure that you get a car built after they fixed the problem at the factory.
Anyway this is not Ford's fault this is a manufacturing defect and yes it well could finish Mazda. I don't think it is a cost cutting move but I'm just pointing out cost cutting is a dangerous thing in the automotive world.
As Mazda failes to speak about the 6's rust problem and as they are selling more 6's they will face more problems with unhappy customers that show up at Mazda customer service centers with rust on their vehicle. By not speaking out about this now Mazda is really taking a chance. If Mazda drops out only Chrysler and VW would be left for making sporty cars. Honda has watered down their exterior styling to be more excepting of the American public with more GM and Ford elements to their styling.
Unfortunate as the Mazda6 rust issue may be, I seriously doubt if this spells the end for Mazda in North America. It seems some people on this board with rust on their cars will not be satisfied with any solution offered by Mazda except for a buy back similar to that offered on the RX-8.
If you bought a new house and some shingles blew off your roof after 6 months are you going to request they replace the missing shingles. Not me because that tells me that they were negligent applying the shingles in the first place and I want a new roof and done properly. If that costs them more than they want to spend fixing it, you know what, I really don't care. This isn't a toaster it's a car and the 2nd biggest purchase for most of us. If I have to contact the king of Mazda to get it done, again I really don't care, I didn't spend 35KCDN on this car so they can put playdoh on my channels and cross my fingers that it works. Anybody that thinks I'm nuts going overboard on this I'm thinking the exact same about you just sitting there and taking it. In fact I'm shocked. Right now H.O. knows me on a first name basis and they're going to get to know me alot better in the next few months. O.K, time to get off my soapbox.
Every friend I've shown this problem to have asked when are they replacing the doors. When I tell them that they want to paint over it instead they look at me and laugh and I laugh (and cry) along with them.
I understand your being upset over the Mazda6, but seller obligations in the real estate field do not extend to being a guarantor of the roof, especially since the shingles may have blown off in a world class storm or not otherwise have been defective in any way. You had an opportunity to inspect the roof before purchase. All of which assumes you aren't claiming the seller knew the shingles were defective and fraudulently did not disclose that.
- Mark
Apparently Mazda is feeling lucky or maybe their execs have become blinded by the recent increase in profits. I would suggest to Mazda leadership that they rethink this solution, and maybe dip into the funds for the bonuses they were planning to give to these misguided execs.
I would suggest to Mazda6 owners that you get together and get a lawyer to write some letters and rattle some cages. There's strength in numbers.
The soapy solution mentioned previously was probably used to remove the oil based coating on the raw steel and it wasn't properly removed prior to painting. All steel comes from the mill with a thin oil based coating on it to minimize the development of rust prior to being fabricated. Once an assembly such as a door frame is fabricated it is essential that all surfaces of the assembly be cleansed of the contaminants prior to painting by use of solvents or "soapy solutions". Then the solvent or cleaning solutiuon must be properly dried off before putting any paint on the steel. If they are left in the "wet" state then they are painted, that can cause problems with paint adhesion and that opens the gate to rust showing up.
Judging from the photos, it looks near impossible to get deep into the seam with sandblasting. Therefore any applied sealant will only be a stopgap solution. The rust will come back someday..
Before priming/painting, car bodies typically go through a bath for cleaning, but they are thoroughly dried before painting.
You're correct, sandblasting is not even an option here. In fact, there's not a whole lot that can be done in this case. I think Mazda is suggesting about the only "practical" fix, though it's clearly not perfect. It will probably satisfy the basic rust warranty on the car, and that's it.
Craig
this is a system that allows a direct plugin of an Ipod into your factory system. This would be a cool sort of setup for the Mazda3 and 6.
If this is the case then I don't believe the soapy solution is causing the rust, because it would have to eat through the paint.
Examining pubdef's pictures of the "soapy solution" residue, I looked at my car on Saturday for the same thing, in addition to looking for any new rust that has appeared due to the recent rains we have had (first rain in over 6 months!). I found a similar residue on mine, and it did feel like dried soap. I can also see the same residue on the paint in the sash rails (weather stripping channels), particularly as it transitions from horizontal to vertical, such as near the exterior mirrors on the front doors. The residue is yellowish-white in color and I found absolutely no degradation of the paint or rust in the those areas. This just confirms my belief that the "soapy solution" has nothing to do with the rust.
I also found some new rust spots which have not been discussed here before. There are many circles (barely visible behind the paint) that are spaced along the sash rails. You have to remove the weather stripping to see them. These look like the areas where the sash rail is spot welded onto the door frame. In several of the spots where the weld is, I have found rust. Because of my cheap digital camera, they are hard to see in pics because I can't control the exposure and contrast. But you can see them here and here, highlighted by the red arrows. They are much larger and much worse in person; I apologize about the picture quality. In the second pic you can see a ventilation/drainage hole. There are several of them and I can see rust forming on the inside edges of them as well.
My service manager told me that he'd call as soon as they heard back from Mazda and they haven't called yet.
If I can resign myself to less horsepower and options - not to mention the fear that what started with the 6 will follow with other models - I'll go for the 3; if not, Mazda has just lost another customer due to their mishandling of a serious manufacturing issue.
The company that produces the ICElink adapter for iPods is charging $200 for what - around $60 in merchandise? Correct me if I'm wrong, but other than a $30 ProClip mount, a $16 CD-changer bus to AUX adapter, and a $13 AUX to miniplug adapter, what are you getting?
I agree with regfootball that Mazda should step up and offer front inputs for mobile MP3 players; this is a demographic of 1 million plus (and growing every day!)
Mazdaman, any opinions?
The 3 will come from the plants that made the Protege, and these have been very reliable.
After driving this car and others like it, I just couldn't find anything that drove as nicely for anywhere close to the price. Can't wait!!
"It's just one more door to rust"....lol
I'd wait anyway. I'd wait to see how Mazda is doing after everybody knows about the rust issue. You couldn't possibly screw up worse than Mazda did in this case. A rust issue on a new car is the worst problem I can think of. VW couldn't even do worse....
As far as the '6', I hope for the owners' sake that Mazda does come up with a more satisfactory plan of fixing the 'staining' (rust) issues on it. And God forbid the press get a piece of this, because it just might hit Mazda harder than they thought.
FWIW, I checked on KBB to see what my Mazda6 is worth. I stopped when I read the definition of a car in "excellent condition". The car has to be rust free in order to be in "excellent condition".
Geez, my car doesn't even have 5000 miles on it yet and it's not in "excellent condition" anymore. Bummer.
Not sure which way I'm gonna go yet. Have to see the 3 in person first.. if I can wait that long. Plus, the TSX is at a time right now when there is the least amount of discounting since it's introduction. There are way too few of them available to meet the demand out there.
My opportunity (lost when I was waiting to see what was going to happen with the 'staining' problem) to find the exact set of options for the 6 have come and gone, and I'm not sure if I'm willing to make any sacrifices now.
http://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/MAZDA/4/e980331.html
So, that said.....where is the PROOF that mazda's explanation is false or fix won't work?? If it's not what mazda is saying, I want to know about it.
anyone??
I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens, and will post pictures of the result. I think I'll have the car back by the end of the week.
RICH: There are areas on my car that look like a "rusty stain," and there are areas that I truly believe are rust--around the small holes in the door sashes, at the ends of the J-channel. I'm not a metallurgist, and I might even give Mazda the benefit of the doubt with respect to some of what's there. I tried to wipe it away with alcohol, and what I could reach I could remove for the most part. The problem is I'm not as confident in Mazda's position as to WHERE and WHAT the source of the staining is. Just because it can be wiped away doesn't prove anything either-- take a piece of iron or steel with a rusty area and pour water on it. You're likely to get a rusty stain on anything the water lands on or migrates to--does the fact that I could then clean away that stain mean there was no rust to begin with? Of course not. The "soapy substance" they talk about I believe I found underneath the weatherstrip on one of my doors, both on the weatherstrip itself, and on the j-channel the strip was in. In that area there is no corrosion whatsoever--so where is the negative reaction they talk about in the bulletin? See what I'm talking about on my site http://www.mazda6.us
That being said, I have taken my car in. There's really no choice at this point but to take Mazda's offer of a fix at face value and move ahead. I don't really care whether what I see is rust or not, I just want it gone. Only time will really tell whether the "fix" is really a fix.
Where is the PROOF that Mazda's explanation is true or the fix will work?
The problem is, we won't know for a while, or we won't know until it's too late. In the meantime, I have a brand new car that needs rust "fixed" and I get to think about whether or not it's going to come back.
2. Long term: in the long term, the car will have more standard powertrain/power modules/suspension issues to be fixed,as with other cars, than the tiny rust stain problem. The rust / stain will be the least of the problems you will worry about. I mean you will be grateful if the car starts up at the first click and be very happy if it does not stop without a warning while on the insterstate.
Way to go Mazda.
I also think c_hunter's theory on the rusting sounds plausible.
Time will tell how things go. Give it a try and some time.
Your rep is lying to you. I wrote Mazda Canada Oct 15 and faxed a letter to Mike Benchimol, Pres/CEO of Mazda Canada. I was called by a customer service person and they told me about the flexible sealant solution before the 17 page TSB was released. I also asked about the warranty extension and was told that it wouldnt be necessary. (except for my peace of mind, of course, which is the most important thing).
Bottom line- you are not rhe only Canadian owner to inform Mazda canada of the rust issue.
1) a 10/21/03 email sent by MNAO Technical Services Dept to dealers only outlining the issue with the subject line saying "Mazda 6 Door Sash Rust." This email only became public because a dealer employee released it to an individual.
2) multiple emails sent to individuals by Mazda Customer Assistance refering to a "soapy water solution" as the cause for a "surface rust situation" and advising that "vehicles built after 7/22/03 are not affected."
3) an 11/3/03 Service Bulletin sent by MNAO to dealers only with a subject line saying "Door Sash/Trunk Lid Surface Staining." The bulletin outlines only the fix not the cause for the problem. Again this info only became public because a dealer employee released it to an individual.
So... unless an individual was lucky enough to pull all these pieces of the puzzle together from multiple internet sources they have no explanantion and more importantly might not learn that their doors and trunk were slowly "staining" away until their warranty was history.
Call it hiding the ball, call it trying to avoid bad press, call it a secret warranty, call it whatever you want, it equals a lack of credibility on Mazda's part.
There is no point in trying to prove or disprove the fix since everyone with the problem is stuck with it (unless they choose to try something on their own or do nothing at all) whether they think it will work or not and the end results are probably months away.
How can you say mazda has nothing official? they have a fix for the problem...that seems official to me... I certainly don't dictate how an auto mfg should or should not operate...but Mazda's procedures for this type of problem is exactly the same as Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Acura, Nissan and just about every other mfg. I don't see hysterical cries about their credability. Toyota has a so called secret warranty for sludge, Honda has a so called secret warranty with auto trannies, the list would go on forever. The bottom line is simple...if you have a problem, go to the dealer and they will fix it. Mazda's staining fix is no secret, we are all talking about it!!! also, if you make an appointment at your local dealer, they will inspect your car and execute the official mazda fix for the staining if needed..
A huge part of the problem is the internet and the desire for people to beleive ANYTHING they read without checking any facts...Next think you know the slighted version of the facts turns into a rolling tidal wave of fiction...
From my standpoint it's mazda's job to produce a fix for the staining problem...which Mazda claims they have done. Now let's see if it works....if it does not work then we have a different ballgame.
Rich - I certainly did not mean to flame you. Many of us very much appreciate your info and input on this board. I guess I just was hoping for more from Mazda than you would expect from the camcord folks.
BTW, for better or worse I bought the car anyway and I love it so far.
Fact:
My car has less than 5000 miles on it and is rusting. What other facts do we need here?
"Toyota has a so called secret warranty for sludge, Honda has a so called secret warranty with auto trannies, the list would go on forever."
First of all, who cares about Honda and Toyota? Second of all, those problems make themselves known. Your engine seizes. Your transmission takes a dump. It's pretty hard not to notice those things. On the other hand, how many people with the Mazda6 will look under their weatherstripping or even think to look for rust? Is it easier to notice a seized engine, or rust underneath the weatherstripping, inside of a small channel between the door frame and weatherstripping holder?