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Mazda6 Sedan

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Comments

  • My dealer called me last week and said Mazda says this is not a rust issue but a staining problem with the lubricant used. Has anyone else received this response?
  • My current car is dying. Looking to buy new. I've narrowed it to 2 models. The 2003 6 is heavily discounted. Ostensibly, itsa heckuva deal. A great handler and superb crash test results. Problems? The rust issue (will it appear or won't it?) and resale. So I'm also thinking about the Ford Focus--same 2.3L engine, same tranny, a few grand less. But it's smaller and much less prestigious..........the thing is, I pass by a major Mazda dealer every day and it has dozens of Mazda6 autos--most have been sitting there since the summer. The car ain't selling much around here, so come trade-in, I'd be in a pickle. And once the rust issue leaks out, I'd be further pickled. But the 6 is looking mighty attractive.
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    Dinu
  • Dinu's advice :)
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    stain, whatever....pictures look like rust.
  • Buying a Mazda3 is excellent advice. However, I must admit to a certain amount of buy-U.S. bias. I cannot and will not purchase a car made in a foreign country. Granted, it's getting harder and harder to make the distinction, with transplant factories and all. But the window stickers give a decent indication of U.S. content. The Mazda3 has perhaps 10 percent U.S. content, if that. The Mazda6 has 65 percent or so, perhaps a bit more. The Focus is higher still............But that's why I liked the 6. It struck me as an American car (union made, etc) with great Japanese engineering. That's why I'm devastated about this rust issue.
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    That's not too smart - buy the car that's the best for the $ you have. If it's made in Japan or Germany, then so be it.

    I don't feel sorry for the domestics since their products are inferior and would not sell in a more educated European market (things like the Cavalier, Malibu, Neon, etc). What I do feel sorry is our economies (Canada and teh US) and the many people's lives that could be ruined by their lack of making decent products.

    Dinu
  • wongpreswongpres Posts: 422
    Get a remaining '03 Mazda6. As you say, it's a great deal right now and it meets your requirements. Further, the '04s haven't changed much (and many people don't even like the '04 external antenna).

    You also have an advantage in knowing about the staining issue. Since your dealer has many cars, open up all of them and find one without staining (I've seen some cars within the VIN range with no staining). Once you get the vehicle, apply NuFinish or some other car polish in those areas for prevention.

    My parents have a '98 626, which is similar to the '03 Mazda6 in that it's from the same plant and was also a 1st year vehicle. The 626 has been a very reliable car.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    Buying a Mazda3 is excellent advice. However, I must admit to a certain amount of buy-U.S. bias. I cannot and will not purchase a car made in a foreign country.

    I find it's admirable for people who defends the employment in their own country, but I wonder how much this kind of "charity" buy would really help (pardon for the word). The only way to survive is to become competitive. Free market is always an idea that US society is found on, and in an exemplary manner, why make an exception with car industry? Financially, it's a big advantage to have a building plant within the local market. It's pathetic that the Flat Rock plant, with all the advantages, is not up to the expectation.
  • ramped1ramped1 Posts: 159
    on Thanksgiving eve: the M6, the Altima, the Accord, the new Maxima, the new Galant, the Passat, the Camry, the new Malibu - everything resembling a four-door family sedan.

    As I believed all along, for the value, the materials quality and the all-around good looks, the M6 is the best there is right now in that category.

    Having driven most of these cars during test drives this year (except the new Galant and the new Maxima), the performance edge goes to the M6 as well. The Accord is perhaps a better long-term value, factoring in resale, but I don't like the rear styling at all (subjective, of course).

    I thought the new Galant would look better than it did, and it seemed to have rather substandard (like Nissan) interior materials. The car has confusing lines. It looks like the designers were trying little too hard (again, subjective).

    Take away the value and reliability issue, and I'd probably take the Passat, since the Passat is good-looking, handles well and has all the safety equipment.

    Also, the new Acura TSX and TL sedans are tremendous cars, but they should be compared to other luxury cars, not the 6.

    I guess my point is, staining or no staining, the M6 is a heck of a car. I believe it should be near the top of the list for any shopper.

    Well, I've hidden myself away from the Thanksgiving madness long enough. Time to rejoin the fracas. Happy Thanksgiving to all, and enjoy those Mazdas.
  • aromasaromas Posts: 314
    Went to the dealer today to check out the Mazda 3. Didn't have time for a test drive but what a beautiful car inside and out, especially the hatch, and roomy as well. I may be paranoid but I did the rust check which now should be standard for all Mazda cars and although I didn't find any stains on the 3 the paint job on the vertical door channels seemed as bad as my M6 where my car is rusting the most. I know these cars are built in Japan but it makes me wonder.
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    You ARE paranoid!
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I would just buy that I like. I don't really worry where its produced.

    About resale with the rust that is a major worry. I think when Flat Rock changed over for the 04 model 6's they should have fixed their(giant era) in regrards to the rust issue. To me there is always a 50/50 chance of something bad happening to a first year model of car. That does not excuse Mazda at all for the rust issue though.

    I still eye the 6 when I see one too.

    I think Aromas has the worst 6 in terms of amount of rust so thats why he is "paranoid" I guess. I would be too if that happened to me. Oh yeah a metal strip on my roof of my car peeled. I came out of work the other day and I found one of the metal strips coming off a little bit on the end. The little piece of the metal strip is sticking up. This might have happened when I got the hail damage repaired a few months back.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Somebody might come out swingin'. From some of the pictures I've seen, that ain't no "stain".
  • dantodanto Posts: 24
    First of all I want to say how sorry I am to those who have been effected by the stain issue. And that's all that it is folks, stain! Stain from the pink soap that some idiot did not check before approving it for use. I know that for sure because the engineers came out to the floor and removed every once of the soap from the plant a while back. I was concerned my self because I am getting a hatch back when it comes out soon. So I went and asked some of our leadership about this issue and they assured me that it was not as serious as some people are making it seem. I was told that all you have to do is use an alcohol based cleaner to remove the stain. I don't mean to minimize the problem because I know that some people have been effected more than others. But this thing seems to have taken a life of its own and just wanted to share my perspective.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Posts: 2,405
    So are you saying it's not actually a result of rust? It's soap residue?
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    Well then, if the engineers removed all the soap from the factory floor and some people in leadership say it's not serious, then that's it! (just make sure you check your car for rust before you take delivery)
  • "I may be paranoid but I did the rust check which now should be standard for all Mazda cars.."

    Oh come on! The 3 is made far away from Flat Rock with different parts. Some people really get too worked up.

    The rust 'hysteria' is fueled by those who want H&T to be the only car makers selling.
  • Danto, your post is reassuring. However, it is unfortunate that you're dismissing any rust claims. Have you been on the site with the rust pics? Have you read the posts from 'aromas' and others? It's RUST, plain and simple. Even some Mazda svc deptmts are now calling it rust.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    but I still believe it's rust. If it's not, that's some pretty crazy soap. It turns from a pink substance to a brown substance that is a dead ringer for rust. I'd expect the leadership of your plant to minimize the problem. They aren't going to say that it's serious even if it is.
  • aromasaromas Posts: 314
    Well my dealership has said that's it's rust. The trunk gutter has several spots that makes it painfully obvious. These "stains" can't be wiped off. The trunk gutter rust seems to be stemmimg from a really bad paint job. The dealership is not proposing the "fix". When I come in to get my seats replaced they will take it to the body shop and try and figure out what they can do. I might be one of those dreaded "special cases". Could be due to the fact that they know I'm pretty pissed off about this so they know I won't take the Mazda "fix" too kindly especially when I still haven't got a straight answer on how this "fix" is legitimate.
  • seafseaf Posts: 339
    try to dismiss this as a minor stain. There intentions are clear and obvious. What we have to do is see past the PR agenda and look at the real facts.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    A stain is like a stain on a shirt you wear. Rust is totally different. I thought this company was different than it was 6 years ago. Don't look like it. Than again what can Mazda do? They can't buy all the 6's back. The people who bought an 03 6 are stuck with the rusting problem and Mazda is stuck: stuck on having a bad reputation compared with the Japanese Big 3.

    This lesson has told me to totally totally avoid a new car in its first year of bodystyle.
  • dantodanto Posts: 24
    I understand most of your skepticism about the stain. No, I have not seen every picture on the site and some that I have seen, I must admit, seem like rust. But I can only share my personal experience and leave the rest to the experts. Not only have I worked at the Flat Rock plant for the past 16 years, I currently own two of the cars that were built there. One of which is an 11 year old Mazda 626. It has 165,000 miles on it with no rust (In a state where salt is used liberally)! I know that that is not a big deal to some of you but I only bring it up to point out that Mazda and Flat Rock have built good quality cars over the years. We are not a traditional plant, as most of you know. Mazda set up our plant to model the Japanese plants. (What has been encouraging over the past few years is that Ford has been implementing what we have been doing since day one.) I believe what I was told about the soap being the culprit for the stain. And to prove that point, I personally am getting my Mazda 6 hatchback in the spring! I am very confident that Mazda will resolve this issue soon. My confidence comes from seeing the way they have tackled other issues in the past. I believe in the integrity of Mazda and that is the reason that I have chosen to post my input.
  • I went to the 2004 Arizona Auto Show this weekend and even with all the issues with the Mazda6, it still tops my list of future cars. The exterior and interior are incredible and its a great value for the price. In comparison to other American and Japanese cars, the Mazda6 is just the best out there. High on my list in addition to the Mazda6 is the Acura TSX and while the TSX is a great car, I am still more impressed with the Mazda6. The Mazda6 felt more exciting.

    I am also considering some European cars and while I might consider some of them just as attractive on the outside as well as the inside, none of them can compare on price.

    Tony
  • Although Mazda is a Japanese company, isnt their car pretty much Ford doing? I mean I always would like the quality of a Japanese car over an American car, but with so much input on ford im starting to second guess my decision. How much has ford helped mazda, and is still a japanese engineered car? Also, my second question is the reliability of mazdas. Im planning on driving this car for at least 6+ years, and I want something that is going to last. Can a mazda do that for me? Thanks
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Posts: 2,405
    Get a Mazda3 or Protege (while you can...). Both made in Japan.
  • Just in case you were wondering, my previous statement was directed towards a mazda 6s
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    1. Soap Stains

    2. Improper paint job.

    Those of you who have the improper paint job should take up the matter with your dealer directly. Mazda is not going to call in even a TSB for a poor paint job.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    You forgot the 3rd and most important issue: Rust.

    You REALLY want to sweep this thing under the rug don't you?
  • mazdafunmazdafun Posts: 2,329
    It's mostly a Mazda effort, though the V6 uses a Ford Duratec block (the rest is Mazda). I think the rear suspension is derived from the one used in the Millenia, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Though I think the engineering is mostly Mazda, I think some interior bits have been influenced by Ford (passenger-assist grips are held in with plastic clips, not metal screws, as past ones have been, I think form is starting to overshadow function in terms of passenger space...thus the puny rear headroom in the 6 and 3 sedan). Mazda6 made in Japan don't exhibit the rusting issues that those made for NA at AAI have. I think it's local supplier and production process issues.
  • Still haven't seen either of the new 2004 colors for the Mazda6. My local dealership only has maybe 4-5 in stock at any time. Went over to one of the larger dealerships in Grand Rapids last week and they didn't have ANY of that copper color or the metallic ash color, or whatever they're called. All they had were 2003 colors (but on 2004 models with the stubby antennae off the roof).

    I think I'm still the only Speed Yellow in my town. :D
  • "Get a Mazda3 or Protege (while you can...). Both made in Japan."

    This seemes to be accepted at the universal gospel on these boards. If it came from Japan then all will be well.

    I don't want to come off as some local yokel screeming about "merica" and waiving the flag about but let me politely say: horsefeathers.

    The car I had the most trouble with had an "H" on the badge and came from ... Japan. The car I had the absolute best luck with? It was a Mercury Tracer (aka Mazda 323) that had been built in Mexico! Folks warned me about it ahead of time and told me is was going to be a nightmare because of where it was built. They were wrong. It was simply the most reliable car I've ever owned.

    Is there an issue with the M6 in the US plant? Yup. But my M6 has still seen the dealership less than the "H" car that was built in Japan at the same number of miles.

    To blindly rave or dismiss every car built in a particular country is just plain wrong. I know because I've had to pay the bills fixing some of these "perfect" cars.
  • First, do a little research on a car before you plan on plunking down $15-20k. Minimal research on the 6 will show it is no more a Ford car than a Jag is a GM car. Sure, the parent companies have influence on how the manufacturer is going to make a car, but it doesn't turn something like the 6 into a "Ford car."

    Second, I see that some people will continue to cling to their "beliefs" about the staining issue rather than real world people coming in here and sharing their first-hand experiences with others. We've had people who've had the stain (a) wipe it off with their fingers, (b) get the fix, or (c) continue to complain about it and do nothing. We've had employees come in here and tell us the same thing that Mazda told us.

    Third, it appears a handful of people have a more serious paint quality issue that is unrelated to the staining issue. These folks should go to their dealer and look for satisfaction rather than coming on here to post the same old tripe day in and day out. Seriously, if it's a "problem," it should be posted on the Problems forum.

    The 6 is a great car -- no equal can be had for the same kind of money. After having tested the TSX, the Mazda 6 came away a clear winner in terms of drivability and value for the money.
  • seafseaf Posts: 339
    should really have a big icon by their name stating they're dealers. It is truely amazing how all the people here who represent dealers sound alike, praising the car no matter what. Let's all face the facts, Mazda screwed up, and they're not doing a good job of resolving this issue thus far.

    By stating that SOME cars have stain and others have bigger rust problems raises some questions, why are so many cars affected, and where exactly do you draw the line between minor surface stain and internal rust? How much of a coincidence is it that most Mazda6's built at the AAI plant have stains that look like rust in the door sashes? Or maybe they are not two different things but rather the same, just different degrees of the same rust problem.

    Rust can bleed out from crevices and pollute painted surfaces so when you wipe those surfaces, it looks like a surface stain with good paint underneath, but more likely than not rust is created nearby.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "We've had people who've had the stain (a) wipe it off with their fingers"

    I still don't understand why people keep bringing this up, as if it solves the problem.

    "I wiped off the rust on my car....so it's no big deal....why is everybody screaming bloody murder....it wipes right off..there's paint underneath it...bla bla bla....." etc. etc.

    NOBODY is wiping off the rust. What you are wiping off is the result of rust. Don't think it's gone because you wiped it off. That's like wiping off oil drips from a leaky engine and expecting the leak to go away...
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    SEAF......I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer, I am a dealer. Now that seaf is aware that I am a dealer.....

    as we prepare to close the month of Nov. for mazda sales...I can once again confirm that the MZ6 is the best selling Mazda in the Northeast. The Tribute is a very close second. Also, the MZ6 continues its month over month sales increases....The MZ6 is also one of the internets most researched cars. With that, it seems that consumers are aware of the staining issue and it is not preventing them from buying the MZ6...
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "With that, it seems that consumers are aware of the staining issue and it is not preventing them from buying the MZ6"

    Oh gosh. I am going nuts. It's RUST. RUST, RUST, RUST!! A "stain" is what I had in my pants when I saw RUST on my new car. Rust is Rust. It's not easy to candy-coat a problem like this, but that's EXACTLY what Mazda is trying to do by calling it a "stain" and avoiding the word "rust".

    Mazda is using the word "stain" because "rust" isn't a word you want associated with a brand new car. It's PR spin and some of you folks are falling for it.
  • Well, why don't you start a class action lawsuit?
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    When you can show us something that confirms without a doubt its rust....then we will call it rust. until then....its a stain.

    sorry I forgot to ident myself to SEAF.....I'm a dealer
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "When you can show us something that confirms without a doubt its rust....then we will call it rust. until then....its a stain."

    How about this:

    When you can show us something that confirms without a doubt THAT IT ISN'T rust....then we will call it stain. until then....its RUST!

    The burden of proof is on Mazda, not me. I'm losing out on the resale value of my car. Mazda is/will be losing sales. People have come in here and decided not to buy because of this issue. Sales may be going up, but not as much as they would have had this issue never came up. They have the resources to prove that it isn't rust, I don't. Until they come forward with evidence that what we are seeing is not rust stains, then I will continue to believe it's rust.

    Mazda has a lot to lose with this issue. If it indeed is NOT rust, they without a doubt would have come forward by now to clear things up. If not with a public announcement, then with a TSB explaining why it ISN'T rust. They haven't done any such thing.
  • The first seven months and 10,000 miles of ownership with my 6s have been as enjoyable as my 00 Protege ES, yet very different.

    The Stain/Rust on my doors have been the only issue. Not to minimize it. I also had two screws tightened on the drivers window support rail.

    I drive my 6s hard every day on Upstate, NY roads. These are very similar to what you would see on Little House on the Prairie.

    I have not had a clunk, rattle, squeak, CEL, or malfunction of any type. It is as tight as the day I drove it off the lot. It is also quicker than the day I picked it up. I average 21mpg.

    The 6 is a totally different experience than the Protege'. Much more refined, balanced, comfortable and IMO a lot more enjoyable to push hard than my Protege' ES.

    The MZ3 would be a better vehicle to look at. But my experience from a fit/finish/mechanical standpoint is no different between the cars. Rust/Stain issue aside. Again not attempting to minimize it. The US build quality on my 6s is as good as my 00 Protege'.

    Mark.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    you say... I'm losing out on the resale value of my car.

    There has been NO drop off in resale values based on real world auction transactions.

    you say....Sales may be going up, but not as much as they would have had this issue never came up.

    month over month sales numbers keep increasing, when many cars in its class are going down. They might have lost sales but you don't have any idea why and neither does anyone else....but with sales still going up in a down market its hard to hammer something that is selling.

    you say...They have the resources to prove that it isn't rust, I don't. Until they come forward with evidence..

    They came out with the fix of the problem and they call it a stain. I suspect an entire band of lawyers told them not to call it something it isnt. so if it isnt rust, they arent going to call it rust....In the end, does it matter what it's called? no. The only thing that really matters is that it gets fixed.

    you say...Mazda has a lot to lose with this issue

    I disagree. After 20 years in the car biz I have seen alot of problems, big and small. GM gas converted diesel engines, ford head gaskets, Firestone tire problems, GM and chrysler paint blowing off cars, pinto rear end explosions, bad tranny's in Acura's, Nissans that rusted on the boat before they arrived in the US...etc. For anyone with any problem it sucks, and you have my support...but as problems go, this isnt a huge one....people come in with the problem and we are fixing it per mazda's instructions. if mazda called it wrong then they will find another resolve. So far, it's working.

    I have worked with alot of brands, including some very lofty high line brands. Mazda handles problems better than most but, regretfully they can't hold everyone hand while they complete the process. The end result is everyone who is involved will get their car fixed.
  • I am NOT a dealer, but yet I find myself believing more and more that this definitely is 2 separate issues.

    I am one of the few lucky one's, at least of those who frequent this site, that does not have rust or a stain. However, if it truly is rust that is affecting "everyone's" car like a few continue to claim, than I am sure eventually there will be a much larger problem.

    Kind of makes me wonder though why Mazda isn't more worried about it? One would believe that they would be much more concerned if this really is rust on "every" car that has a stain. Just a thought.
  • aromasaromas Posts: 314
    The dealer I first showed my car to also dismissed it as stains until I decided to wipe off that smug look on his face and show him my trunk. That pretty much shut him right up. Imagine that I was one of the lucky few who has a bad paint job on my trunk and stains on my doors. But they're totally unrelated. Uh-uh yeah okay, I understand now.

    Seems to me the only people here who think it's stains don't actually own a 6 that has these "stains". If you went to buy a 6 tomorrow would you check for these "stains"? If you found these "stains" would it stop you from buying it? I'll answer for you. Yes and Yes on both counts. You wouldn't want to take a chance just like us who don't want to take a chance with this fix especially when Mazda can't explain how this fix eliminates the problem. It's funny how Mazda is using sealant and touch-up paint on the doors when they say it isn't rust. Must be one hell of a stain.

    rkf1976: If you were Mazda and you know you screwed up you would do the same thing they would. Try to minimize it, offer a fix that will hide it until the warrenty period is over and blame it on something else if someone complains then. Mazda isn't the 1st company to do this and they sure won't be the last.
  • Yes, when I go to pick up my M6, I will likely check it. But will it stop me from taking delivery? No, it won't.

    LOL, I love that post saying that Mazda should come out with a TSB to elaborate on why it *isn't* rust!! That's funny. Maybe they should also come up with a TSB explaining why they don't have rear headrests in the sedan or why Yellow isn't offered as a color any longer. Please, get real.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "They came out with the fix of the problem and they call it a stain. I suspect an entire band of lawyers told them not to call it something it isnt. so if it isnt rust, they arent going to call it rust....In the end, does it matter what it's called? no. The only thing that really matters is that it gets fixed."

    Why does the TSB call for sealing the door sashes to prevent corrosion? They may not have used the word "rust", but calling for sealant on the door sashes to "prevent corrosion" is a pretty strong hint that it's rust. Could you elaborate a little on what Mazda means by the word "corrosion"?

    "LOL, I love that post saying that Mazda should come out with a TSB to elaborate on why it *isn't* rust!! That's funny. Maybe they should also come up with a TSB explaining why they don't have rear headrests in the sedan or why Yellow isn't offered as a color any longer. Please, get real."

    What's so funny about that? TSBs address common problems and some of them WILL tell you what the problem is, and more importantly, what it isn't. Not having rear headrests and yellow not being offered anymore aren't common mechanical/electrical/structural problems/issues. Get real.

    The TSB for my Acura had to do with the ignitor and the TSB said specifically that the problem wasn't related to the distributor. In other words, the TSB said "it's the ignitor dummy, leave the distributor alone".
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "I disagree. After 20 years in the car biz I have seen alot of problems, big and small. GM gas converted diesel engines, ford head gaskets, Firestone tire problems, GM and chrysler paint blowing off cars, pinto rear end explosions, bad tranny's in Acura's, Nissans that rusted on the boat before they arrived in the US...etc."

    The big 3 have had the biggest problems in the past 20 years. What has been happening to big 3 marketshare for the past 20 years? Do you honestly think their decline has nothing to do with the crap they dumped on consumers in the 70's, 80's, and 90's? Do you think there were a lot of people who had their "paint blowing off their cars" who were repeat customers?

    "but as problems go, this isnt a huge one....people come in with the problem and we are fixing it per mazda's instructions. if mazda called it wrong then they will find another resolve. So far, it's working."

    So far it's working huh? How can you tell? Can you see through the sealant that Mazda is applying to the door sashes to see if there's any rust in there? Do you expect the rust stains to come back even though Mazda covered up the problem with sealant? Out of sight, out of mind? When will we KNOW if this worked?
  • "So far it's working huh? How can you tell? Can you see through the sealant that Mazda is applying to the door sashes to see if there's any rust in there? Do you expect the rust stains to come back even though Mazda covered up the problem with sealant? Out of sight, out of mind? When will we KNOW if this worked?"

    I'm not dismissing this issue at all and have stated many times that I'm rather pi$$ed about the whole affair. Mazda messed up.

    But...

    The "fix" that was applied to my M6 was finished off with clear sealant. That really surprised me because I'd just assumed Mazda would cover it up with black or white sealant. Then it *would* be out of sight and out of mind.

    With the clear sealant there will be no hiding if the problem returns.

    I'm still pissed at Mazda for the issue but can't fault them for the way they have handled it so far.

    If it comes back then I'll start pounding for a different "fix".
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