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Mazda6 Wagon



  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    You both make good points. But Minis (and BWWs) are selling well at high margins, while Mazda is losing their shirt on the 6 and Ford is bleeding red ink like crazy.

    I continue to think that Mazda would do well to be the "Japanese BMW" - Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti have tried, but all failed at it. If this means that the cars cost another $500, but can be equipped ala carte in any option combo, ordered over the internet, and appear in the dealer's showroom six weeks later (if BMW can do it in eight weeks from Munich or Oxford, surely a Flat Rock produced car can do it in six), then I think they might do better.

    But I'm not an auto executive. I do think there is an existence proof that what they're doing right now isn't doing very well.

    - Mark
  • While I tend to think that many people on this board have positively bizarre demands regarding option combinations and would be screaming blue bloody murder at almost any car manufacturer if they were looking to purchase one of their products....

    I do agree that Mazda should probably just go ahead and make certain safety equipment standard across their line-up. It certainly can be done. The Mazda6 has standard ABS in all models in Canada for instance.

    While Mazda needs to renmain vigilant about the price point of its products, I think if they follow the same "tweener" strategy as VW (Most of their products positioned 1/2 class above the competition), people will still be willing to pay.
  • Just for the record...

    1) I didn't say Mazda needed to make all of these options *standard*. I'd be perfectly happy if they were stand-alone options.

    2) I didn't say they need to get rid of all packaging tricks. They are annoying, but I can accept them as part of business. I'm just flaming them for making a safety feature be dependent on a luxury feature. Putting all the safety stuff in a "safety package" would be fine.

    BTW, BMW does have a few options that are package-dependent. For example, wood trim and lumbar support on the 3-series are only available as part of the $3300 premium package. Slightly annoying, but at least these are luxury items.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    cavalier has ABS available for cheap and used to be standard.

    focus has ABS standalone for cheap. Same with Aveo.

    Mazda, what's the deal.
  • One of the things that you need to take into account is that not all ABS systems are the same. Mazda uses a 4 channel, 3 circuit system that is quite advanced. I believe the cavalier uses a 2 channel system.

    This should be taken into account when comparisons are made.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    having to stand on the brakes in an icy snowstorm means I DON'T CARE what setup as long as we can get it.
  • Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town. The rear seat headrests at the LA autoshow were adjustable. I read somewhere that the headrests weren't supposed to get in the way of lowering the rear seats, but they did. Maybe the front seat was reclined back or something.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    was a piece of junk. I remember a clear day in Atlanta when the ABS kicked in on a rental Cavalier and I almost skidded through an intersection. Not good.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Posts: 463
    What do you expect from an ABS system with drum rear brakes. The rear would shutter like the wheels were about to fall off.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
  • The point thought, I think, is that sometimes it seems like two alike things are being compared with one another when that is really not the case.

    Many consumers are unaware, I believe, that their are significant differences in terms of quality, technology and performance of certain car safety features. It certainly shouldn't come as a surprise, we all constantly read messages from people on these boards complaining about the quality of certain manufacturer's car stereos for instance.

    It also stands to reason that certain car makers are able to put a lot of standard safety equipment into inexpensive cars because they are using inexpensive and likely less sophisticated safety components.

    All of this goes to say no two vehicles are exactly alike and sometimes the differences between them are hard to spot, but they are there.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    still doesn't mean the ABS and SABSAC shouldn't be STANDALONE options, availabel on all models and configurations without having to be a package deal.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    Actually, I would have been far better off without ABS. I didn't have to brake hard and the road wasn't slippery. I would have stopped faster without it.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    98% of the time ABS is better to have.

    I've ditched enough cars and done enough inclement weather panic stops with ABS and non ABS cars and can say with absolute certainty that humans cannot modulate the brake pedal the way ABS can.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Posts: 463
    I think too many bone heads think systems like ABS, traction control and now this hyped up anti-roll over logic will allow them to still drive normally (or even more idiotic) on ice and bad road conditions and these systems will save them.
    The first rule is to adjust your road speed and closing distance to avoid ever using these systems in the first place.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    yeah, and that still isn't enough. ABS is needed.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    I started driving long before ABS. I grew up in IL, learned to ski in the UP, went to school in Ithaca, NY. Now I live in New England.

    I've done my share of driving in the snow. Personally, I think ABS is way overrated.
  • boxfanboxfan Posts: 180
    "I think too many bone heads think systems like ABS, traction control and now this hyped up anti-roll over logic will allow them to still drive normally (or even more idiotic) on ice and bad road conditions and these systems will save them."

    From what I've read, that's been the case with ABS: it generally hasn't been shown to avoid accidents in real life, and the thought is that people drive too fast because they think they're safer. It seems like AWD presents the same problem: it's easier to get going faster in snowy or icy conditions, but doesn't help you stop any faster, so it could give you a false sense of security. However, skid-control (or anti-rollover logic) systems have been found in several recent studies to lead to fewer rollovers and fewer accidents overall.

    Nonetheless, I still want ABS, traction control and skid control on my next car.
  • boxfanboxfan Posts: 180
    I haven't used ABS in snow, but I find it very helpful on wet pavement.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    if it saves you the hassle of a fender bender ONCE its worth it.

    its all to often in urban traffic you get the brake masher in front of you. in heavy city traffic there is no 3 second spacing. traffic is so congested that other cars fill in the gaps you try to leave for yourself. inevitably you are jam packed on icy roads with an inattentive driver in front of you who mashes their brakes, forcing you to do the same, as you have no distance ata ll to do the clssic pump your brakes. in a time like this ABS is the only thing that can save you.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    boxfan, I agree with you on this. When you start up from a stop and the wheels start slipping with just a slight push of the throttle, you say to yourself "yikes, it's slippery, I'd better go slow." I'm currently driving a 2003 4WD 4Runner. I can mash the throttle from a stop in snow and the truck moves out fast, with little slipping and no blinking of the traction control unless I get really stupid. So I don't really know how slippery it is until I have to brake or corner. At which point I quickly realize that ABS and stability control can't increase the coefficient of friction...
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    even if you are goin 5 mph on icy roads the ABS will save you a fender bender which you can't avoid trying to pump the brakes yourself.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    if the tires can not get grip no braking system will help. Actually in snow and ice ABS isnt always helpful and at times a menace. But in rain and wet pavement it can be very beneficial.

    Alot has to due with the quality of the ABS system and the quality of the driver. ABS will not make a bad driver better. haha But of course nobody is a bad driver.
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    ABS might not reduce your stopping distance, but it may allow you to retain steering control.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    bottom line, overall, ABS gives you a better chance of avoiding accidents than NO ABS does. there is no way to argue that fact.

    a car with crap for tires is still gonna have a better chance of stopping than the car without with the same tires.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    Mazda6s: I agree it may allow you to retain steering control. But it also may increase your stopping distances significantly, depending upon the road conditions.

    I agree with audia8q -- in certain road conditions, you will stop a lot faster without ABS. Particularly in deeper snow and gravel, where you will stop much faster with locked up tires. You can see information about that here on a pro-ABS industry site:

    Concerning tires, your brakes stop your wheels but your tires stop the car. If you have poor, worn tires, ABS isn't going to help you much -- ABS can't do any better than the tire can do. If ABS is working very well, it will give you the best that tire can do on that surface, but no more.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    99% of folks are on ice, freezing rain, and wet rain more often then 'deep snow' and gravel.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    What about the folks on dry rain? ; ^ )
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    agree to disagree about the worth of ABS.
  • Just last month, on a rainy night, as I was passing through an intersection at about 25 mph, an apparently inebriated person stepped out from the darkness right in front of my car. I slammed the brakes, and with full abs pumping away, managed to steer around her and back into my lane to avoid hitting an oncoming car. I stopped and the person kind of staggered back onto the sidewalk. I was shaking at the realization of what could have happened. There was no time to pump brakes, and without the abs I could never have steered around her.
This discussion has been closed.