Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

c_hunter

Most Subaru dealers around here are a multi-brand franchise. One that I use (based on location) is a Mazda-VW-Audi-Subaru-Jeep dealer. My wife had horrible experiences bringing her old Mazda 626 in for service, but I've done OK with my Subarus. Nothing stellar, and they have overtorqued my lugs, but OK. I have yet to find any dealer for any make that is really good, especially compared to the "Mom+Pop" dealerships my parents frequented when I was a kid. Those places did take good care of the customer.

Craig

emmaline

I think what many of us customers want is a fuel effiecient car that is reliable
and low maintenance. I’m open to Honda, or Subaru, or Toyota (or any other
make). I just want a car that will give me minimal problems for the first 100,000
miles, and be reasonable after that. Thanks to this board, I finally have a clutch
that works in my car. I appreciate postings that helped me solve problems with
my car. Thank you for the helpful posts. Emma

mn_pat

my check engine light came on this am. Is there a way that I can find out why without having to go to a shop to have the code read?

last fall I had the cam positioning sensor and the knock sensonr replaced. What might it be? The o2 sensor? I am certain that it is not the gas cap.

Thanks.

wildcorgis

Anybody know of a way to remove scratches that look like they were made by a brillo pad on the Outback's red light bar that has Subaru written on it?

Thanks,

Steve

rob999

My CEL came on intermittently last spring and it did turn out to be the O2 sensor.

AutoZone will check codes for free.

mn_pat

well, I'm going out of town this weekend and I needed to know, so I brought it to Precision Tune. They put it on the computer and $47 later it turned out to be the Throttle position sensor. They reset the CEL and the cars actually runs better, It was idling at 1100 rpm now it is idling at 4-500 rpm. Maybe, hopefully, resetting the computer cleared up some sort of general blues my car was experiencing???

originalbitman

I had great success with a plastic polish that Griot's Garage sells. Buffed out the scratch I put in my Legacy's tailight.

bit

wildcorgis

Where can I get some?

subaru_team

We did have rainguards for awhile (I'm sorry - don't recall how long ago - maybe in '98?) There wasn't a big demand, thus the cost was a bit high. Also, QC feedback indicated that there was some noise issue with airflow so we stopped offering them. I think there are some out there in the aftermarket. I just don't recall who offers the ones that fit our vehicles.

Rotors - Craig was right - wheel over-torquing can contribute to the problem. Please call the 800 number if you have a consistant problem. Also, it might help if you ask your dealer to give you the measurements from the rotors. Is it all wheels? Are they using an on-the-car lathe? It makes a big difference. All dealers are required to have an on-the-car lathe (as a required tool) by Subaru. It may help you if you ask them if they are using one on your Subaru.

Dealers - I really think that vast improvements are on the horizon. The "Subaru Difference" standards are having a great positive impact on the survey scores we are seeing for the dealers that are going through the certification process. I know it's an issue. I'm feeling pretty confident that customer's will see some impact soon.

Patti

oakvillemark

Does anybody out there have experience with shuddering clutches in their Legacy Outback Wagons? Our 02 5spd has had a shuddering problem since it was 2 months old. The dealer doesn't seem to interested in fixing it.
This isn't the first standard I've owned. I think I know what I'm doing.

bkaiser1

I suffered thru 2 years with an awful, awful clutch on my 01 Outback. The problem cropped up around 3K miles, and continued for the next 40K miles until the dealer FINALLY fixed the problem. At each 3K oil change, I would ask to dealer to look at the clutch, and every time was told the shuddering was normal. Sometimes the shuddering was so violent that I thought the dash and body were just going to fall apart from the stress.

Finally, in December 2002, a redesigned clutch kit was made available from Subaru and my dealer called me to schedule mine to be the first one to receive the new parts. I had the work done and the car's behavior was entirely transformed. No more violent bucking through intersections, no more teeth rattling pulls into traffic. I put about 13K miles on the car after getting the clutch fixed and the shuddering never once returned. I traded the car in July for a 2004 WRX.

If your dealer isn't cooperating, find a different dealer or call a regional rep for help. There IS a fix out there, and you should not be responsible for paying for it. Good luck, I know how frustrating it can be!

Brian

jsun

Thanks Craig. I also suspected the shifter wasn't fully in P or N myself, and I did try shiftting it fully back and forth between P and N a few times but the engine wouldn't crank in either position. I doubt it was the shifter. I got back from work half hour ago and the dealer had left a message on my answering machine saying my car had been starting fine all day today and they still don't know what the problem was.

cwbarrett

The lease is up on my 01 LLBean next month 44,000 miles. Buy out is $16,825. Cost to drop it is about $300. I had leaking sunroof repaired under warranty and have had the breaks done twice (the first time warped rotors done under warranty at 17,000 miles). The car is in good shape. My question is should I get out now or is this car a good investment? I'm leaning toward buying but reading these posts I'm not so sure.

oakvillemark

Thanks Brian.

Looks like there's enough info here to approach/corner my dealer with.

Hopefully they don't give me any nonsense about these fixes not applying in the Great White North.

Mark

mrk610

I had the timing belt tensioner sound the other day when it was in the 40's . I thought the engine was going to rip itself apart . Sounded just like an old deisel engine . I could feel the belt hitting the cover and the car was runnig really rough . I looked at the dash and the cel was just starting to flicker when I hit the gas a little and the noise and the cel went away . Hope I don't have a problem getting the tensioner changed . Wish me luck . I have to go in for the rear suspension recall and some of my 30 k service anyway .

oakvillemark

The dealer replaced the belt tensioner on my 02 Legacy Outback Wagon at approx 20k without any hassles.

mrk610

Hope mine will too . I'll keep all posted about it

c_hunter

My parents experienced the clutch problem in their 00 Outback (formerly mine) and the dealer wouldn't fix it since the car was so far out of the basic warranty. My dad even talked to them about the TSB. Thanks to some advice from Patti, my folks called the Subaru 1-800 number and got a case started. The dealer put a new clutch in early last week, and the car is back to normal now. My parents were very happy (me too).

If your dealer is not cooperative, call Subaru. This is a known issue and they really should take care of you.

By the way, the car never exhibited this problem when I drove it in VA, but cropped up in colder weather in CT. It got worse and worse with time, until it was even an issue in warmer weather.

Thanks again to Patti for her help!

Craig

c_hunter

Personally, I love my 02 LL Bean and will keep driving it for a LONG time. If I were in a lease situation and the timing worked out, I might bail out and get a new 05 model when they came out next spring, since they look very nice.

Other than having the brake rotors resurfaced at about 12,000 miles, my LL Bean has been absolutely perfect. I just did the 30,000 mile checkup a couple of weeks ago, and replaced the engine belt for good measure (it was looking a little tired). Otherwise, I feel really good about the car, and it is holding up very well. I will probably do the whole wash/wax routine this weekend.

Otherwise, this decision probably depends a lot on your personal finances, so you're the only one who can make the decision!

Craig

fibber2

Wow, somehow Edmunds ate my long winded post to you. Let's see if I can reconstruct my logic.....

I have leased 3 times and gone both ways, depending on the deal (bought the Toyota, returned the other two). $16.8k is within about $9k of what you could probably do on a new '04 Bean from one of the volume dealer, given the incentives, etc. Assuming you will take out a used car loan for the buyout, you might be able to get better terms on a new car loan, and if you were willing to add a year, could probably keep the payments flat. In exchange you get a 3 year newer car, zero miles, full warranty, lower maintance costs, potentially less bugs than were present at the start of the model run, etc. You got 44k good miles from the current car. At $9k to move up, your depreciation cost is reasonable ($0.20 per mile or so). I think there is good economic justification for moving on.

Steve

K9Leader

CWBarrett:

I won't address the financial considerations either way, as only you know where your priorities are there. But, you commented that you were leaning to buy but reading these posts had raised doubts.

Try to remember that people come to a board like this to find answers to problems, and tend not to post when there are no problems. Therefore, most posts deal with some problem. But for every post about a problem, there are millions (or maybe "just" hundreds of thousands) of others out there not having problems and not posting on a message board.

Every board for a specific make or model reads like this -- even Subaru, even Honda, even Toyota. One key is whether the problems are confined to a couple or several well-known and discussed issues (typical of makes and models with generally good quality control/design) or whether the problems are wide and varied (typical of makes and models with quality control/design problems). (Go read about Chrysler minivan transmissions to really get your eyes opened!)

--K9Leader
2000 OB Ltd (that I bought in March 2003 from a guy who had just bought it off a 3 year lease and then his wife decided she wanted a different color).

otis123

I have 49K flawless miles (except for the front rotors resurfaced at 10K and replaced at 22K - and they threw in the front pads, too - all under warranty). Knock on plastic wood...

Kind of boring, actually. I miss going to the dealer to try and work out problems with my cars. "I love the smell of grease in the morning."

Well, actually the light for my passenger seat heater went out w/in the last month. I wish the driver side would go out too so I can feel more in balance..

:-)

Ralph

P.S. After a quarter of its life, my only true complaint with the LLBean is that it leans way too much when corning. Too much lean on the Bean...

LOL!

idahodoug

Snowbelter - hope you find a better dealer.

Lovermont - do you have a bug deflector on your car?

IdahoDoug

nowakj66

Here is what my father had to say about the Bean morning stutter. He has had 0ver 60 cars in his life and knows a good bit:

====

It sounds like the mass air sensor is confused and is not telling the computer what is going on. It may also be an engine vacuum sensing problem which would also fail to inform the computer that you want some added power made by the motor.

When you step on the gas, you're really stepping on the "air" mostly. The throttle opens and the engine vacuum draws more air in. The mass air sensor and/or the engine vacuum sensor notices this and directs the injectors, through the car's computer, to supply more fuel to mix with the added air that you allowed in with your right foot. The added air and the added fuel make the engine rev up.

It is also possible that your throttle linkage is not a real metal linkage but rather a "drive by wire" set up that is basically a software communication where the relative position of the gas pedal is communicated to the throttle linkage "motor" and something has gone wrong there.

You may not have a mass air sensor but you have something like it. MAS's work by having a heated element in the air stream and something measuring the heat coming from it. When more air flows in, the heated element needs more electricity to produce the same amount of heat at the heat measurement site. The increase in the amount of electricity required to maintain that heat level is reported to the engine management system and it goes to a table that tells it how much air is coming in and it then directs the injectors to deliver the appropriate amount of fuel. Injectors are highly pressurized and deliver more or less fuel depending how long the circuit is left open, that is, how long are they flowing fuel. An injector squirting fuel for a 1/2 second delivers twice the fuel of an injector squirting for a 1/4 second.

You probably have the latest setup which is injection directly into each cylinder rather than injection into a manifold just upstream from the cylinder.

The dealer has probably seen this before and will provide revised software for the EMS (Engine Management System) computer. My Lincoln had several EMS updates and even a software update for the computer that controls the auto tranny.

subaru41

My 99 outback and last Subaru at less than 63000 Miles has blown its head gaskets which was preceded by the burning smell from nowhere that some write about ( My mechanic said that leaking gasket lets engine push some coolant out of head area creating a hot spot) , and if you like vibrations this one has it with new tires and alignment, did not change with new tires, sounds like the older subaru when they had problems with driveshaft balance.This one also has knock in engine until warm,supposedly piston slap ?, lifters also are starting to get a little noisy!!
This has been the most expensive and troublesome car I have ever owned - other makes have improved their models Subaru has not!!-worse than wifes 96 and I am going to get rid of this problem before they are worthless due to the bad publicity that is starting to develop!!
Good luck everybody!

gearhead4

I welcome reports of problems, but really appreciate hearing about solutions. This is the first time I have heard of cylinder head problems, although I am not worried about it because Subaru stopped manufacturing your cylinder heads back in 1999. All of the Subaru's in the USA have SOHC designs that replace the DOHC design on yours.
What is the story of the bad publicity? Do you have specifics on publications that speak of Subaru reliability problems?
Worthless Subarus? Unlikely. Tell me where I can buy a cheap Subaru that hasn't been wrecked.

gearhead4

zman3

Quite a bit of subaru14's post is venting, but you have never heard of Subaru head problems? Where have you been? The head gasket issues with the DOHC engines are fairly well known, including mine.

bopielski

I picked up my new 04 outback limited with 5 speed manual 3 weeks ago. Several days later I noticed drops of oil in my driveway. Checked the oil level and it was fine. Called the dealer immediately for an appointment and they scheduled for a week later. I continued to watch my oil level everyday. Sometimes several times a day. It was blowing back on my exhaust so I was worried the majority of the oil was leaking when the car was moving. The level did not change. I had a bad thought several days into this leaking problem...maybe the transmission oil is leaking. I check the manual for the dipstick and sure enough it was on the LOW line. Called the dealer so they could get me in immediately. They told me to put Dextron transmission fluid into the fill and drive it to the dealer. The service person said auto transmission fluid would work just fine because that is what they use. I knew the guy did not know what he was talking about but made a call to another dealer just to make sure. Gear Oil NOT transmission fluid is what I was told. This was correct. I filled it an drove it in. They gave me a rental car...only because I purchased a 100/7 0 deduct warranty. They called me three hours later and said they need it for the week because it is more serious than they expected (they expected a loose drain plug--FIRST THING I CHECKED). 5 Days later and no word from the dealer. I called and they told me I had a POROUS (LIKE A SPONGE) TRANSMISSION CASE. Oil is just leaking through the metal. I have never heard of this. Has anyone ever heard of this???? This seems like real BS to me. This came from the same guy who told me to put automatic tranny oil in a manual 5 speed. They are in the process of replacing the transmission case. Who knows how long that will take. I WANT A WHOLE NEW TRANSMISSION NOT THE CURRENT ONE TAKEN APART AND PUT BACK TOGETHER. The level went below LOW and the car only has 500 miles on it. I am worried about the long term reliability give it went below Low. Is my request for a NEW FACTORY TRANNY an unreasonable request? Does anyone know if I have any leverage to get them to do what I want them to do--new tranny. Thanks in advance for your help.

cptplt

I had a tranny fluid leak on my new 98 GT, noticed pink stuff on the garage floor (mine's an auto), I never even actually checked the level, took it in. They needed to repair some gasket or other and the parts took a while to get in and I got a rental for a day or two. I've put almost 90K on since then no problems.
Was the level just at or below the LOW?? If it was just a little below I doubt its a big problem. I don't think you will have much of a case asking for a whole new tranny if it runs fine and it was only a little on the low side but you could always take it up with SOA.
And run as fast as you can away from that dealer who obviously know diddly squat!

fibber2

Joseph,

Your dad sounds like he knows his stuff - well done. But I wanted to add / modify a few points:

The hot wire mass flow controllers have a reputation for being somewhat fragile. I believe Subaru (and others) have gone to a less precise but more robust 'lookup table' system for first order fuel approximation based on throttle position. There are dire warnings in the Subi shop manual about never touching the throttle position sensor! Fine tuning then probably comes from oxygen sensor feedback.

Almost all gasoline engines place their injectors in the low pressure manifold, and spray at the backside of the valve. Gas direct injection into the high pressure cyl (like diesels) is still in its infancy.

Steve

fibber2

Mike,

Contact SoA about your head gasket failure. Unfortunately it is a known problem on both the older DOHC and the newer SOHC design. They may be willing to help you as by both time and mileage you are not too far out of the 5yr/60k plan. But remember - attitude is everything. We welcome you to these boards to tell us your problems and ask for help. You are more likely to get satisfaction if you show less aggression!

Steve

lfdal

bopielski said "I called and they told me I had a POROUS (LIKE A SPONGE) TRANSMISSION CASE. Oil is just leaking through the metal. I have never heard of this. Has anyone ever heard of this???? "

Had it happen one on of my Mercurys' automatics - the case "wept fluid" Also saw it listed on one of the limbs in a diagnostic "tree" of transmission leaks. So it really can happen.

FWIW - I'd insist on a new transmission - I can't imagine them swapping the case without messing something up.

Larry

paisan

Gotta ask the question... Why would you willingly bring your car into a shop that gave you bad info on the fluid to put in your MT? That is a sign from GOD that you should not bring your car there, yet you did anyway, what gives?

-mike

bopielski

Mike,

Good question. The individual giving me the incorrect advice was a weekend Customer Service Rep (ie. Counter Person). The dealer actually has a good reputation as far as I know. I've discount the person on the other end of the phone and am giving the dealer's mechanics the bennifit of the doubt. The second reason is I bought the car there and I though I may have more leverage with them instead of some other dealer who didn't sell the car. They have one chance to do right by me.

paisan

I usually give people enough rope to hang themselves (and my local Isuzu dealer where I bought my truck and sold at least 10-15 subies and isuzus for them over the past 5 years did hang themseves)

-mike

fibber2

Unfortunate, but true. Last year the Honda board had reports of a rash of badly cast transmission cases with high porosity and appreciable seepage on Odyssey 5 speed autos. Their first course of action was to try and fix them using JB Weld epoxy! It worked on some, others had to have them replaced.

Steve

outbackgirl

I recently bought a 2001 Outback. I took it into the local dealer for a few recalls (fuel line/hose assembly and can't remember the other at this moment) and when I returned to pick the car up, the rep told me that I have several small leaks where the axles attach to the transmission casing and that both the axles would need to be replaced within 3,000 to 5,000 miles! I've never heard of such a thing... especially on a four year old vehicle! Has anyone else had this problem? Does it even make sense? I think this guy might be pulling my chain. He also said that it "should" be covered under power train warranty, but wasn't sure and that he couldn't justify making the repairs now b/c the problem wasn't bad enough. So, in other words, he won't be able to get the money from Subaru for the warranty work until the problem gets worse! I asked him how long it would take for it to get worse and that's when he said the axles would most likely need to be completely replaced in 3-5,000 miles. This is my first Subaru and I love it so far... but, this sounds like a joke!

Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks

cptplt

sounds like whatever it is should be covered by the 5/60 powertrain warranty if its not under the B2B 3/36 warranty.
If its tsill under warranty and the dealer tells SOA its bust, SOA will fix it, period.

paisan

Depending on how the previous driver treated the car. The CV boots rip, when they do the grease leaks out and dirt/grime get in and ruin your CV/axles. That's why they are inspected at 30K intervals cause the boot can be replaced if necessary.

-mike

ateixeira

Buy that Bean, a new one is $10 grand more, the H6 has proven reliable, you have some powertrain warranty left over, it's been pretty good to you, plus as the owner you have the best feel for it, and your instincts tell you to buy, so I'd buy.

Folks - if a dealer is fixing something under warranty, and for free, don't complain! :-) You're getting new, zero mile parts for free, whatever they happen to be.

mike: you're 100% correct, my friend. The axle boots on our 626 ripped, and the grease shorted out the 02 sensor and even tripped a check-engine light! We were able to clean the rest of the mess, but it was still a very costly failure.

-juice

analyst59

I have a 2003 Outback Wagon, H4 5 speed. It has a terrible problem with a lurch, or hesitation when you let your foot off the gas without depressing the clutch, worst in the low gears but still present in 4th & 5th. We have had three previous Outbacks of the same configuration and never had this problem. The dealer looks at me as if I'm nuts and says that it is normal with a standard transmission. I'm
beginning to doubt my senses. Has anyone else had this problem? If so I would like to hear about your experience and whether you've found a
fix for it. Again, the hesitation or lurch is upon deceleration, not upon acceleration.

c_hunter

Sounds like a "real" problem to me. I've only owned two 5-spd Subarus, but they don't lurch on deceleration.

Has the dealer even driven the car? You should get them to reproduce the problem.

Craig

bigred00

I have a '98 Legacy L wagon that I purchased used. I would like to hear from other owners on the following situation: is it normal that there is no backlighting on the buttons one pushes to select the airflow choices, and also on the fan speed selector switch? There are little lights under the buttons, but it appears that the icons are merely painted on the actual buttons themselves.

daniell

It is "normal" in the sense that many newer models, from basically all brands, do it. My 2000 Nissan Maxima 5 sp. did it. No matter how hard I tried to finesse the accelerator, the car would still buck like crazy. Nissan eventually came up with an ECU reprogramming which ameliorated the problem.

I can even feel this lurch even in my 2002 Forester S with auto transmission.

Here is the cause: newer ECUs are programmed to squeeze the last bits of fuel efficiency and reduce pollution. When you remove your foot from the accelerator, it will agressively cut the fuel. This is less obvious with an automatic because of the torque converter, but it is really annoying and obvious with a manual transmission.

paisan

The bulb is burned out. Happens on every '97 I know of. My dad had it replaced 2x.

-mike

bigred00

Thanks for the info Paisan. Guess I'll have to get it fixed.

goosegog

This will not help you with your specific problem, but readers may be interested to know that ATF can be used in a manual transmission.

Since the mid 90's it has been highly recommended by owners of manual trannies fitted to V8 Rovers and Triumphs made during the 80's. Not only does the transmission oil pump last longer, but also it fixes a baulky 1-2 sychromesh. Many people have used it with great success for years, even in autocross and racing applications.

But having said that, I don't think I'd want to put it in any other car unless it was an emergency and it was all I had. And I'd get it flushed out and replaced asap.

jovo

I have a -99 legacy. Gone 60 000 miles, new tires this year. I noticed a few weeks ago a low humming noise that increases until 60 miles/hour At 70 it disappeares. Does not seem to come from the motor. No vibrations.

Any suggestions?

c_hunter

What kind of tires? Some tires get noisy after you put a bit of mileage on them.

Craig

chilmark

I have a leak around the top of the gasket of the auto trans filter on my 99 OB wagon. checked the fluid levels- AT fluid was ok, differential fluid was low. anyone experience anything like this? any idea cost to fix? car has only 66K miles.