Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wife called me yesterday to report a puddle of water under her Legacy.

    I guess I was overestimating just how much water she meant, it was just condensation from the A/C. She's been running the defroster in the Indian Summer we've had.

    Whew.

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Hello folks, I have a problem with my power antenna. It's not going up or down, but I can hear the motor running. I called subaruparts.com and they quoted me $40 bucks for the part, but they don't have the installation manual. I was wondering if anybody has replaced it themselves and is it difficult to do?

    Thanks in advance.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    did you check around the base of the mast for anything that might be binding it up? Maybe lubricate? Now - the "official" part - I'm not a technician and all I can recommend is bringing it into an authorized Subaru dealer for repair recommendations. ;-)

    My husband had a similar problem about 10 years ago and I saw that his mast was bent a bit. A little tweaking and it was fine - but, I'm not recommending that you try this at home!

    Patti
  • squeezedlemonsqueezedlemon Member Posts: 18
    My 96 Legacy Outback 2.5 L has developed a front differential oil leak from what appears to be the ATF vent. My trusted corner mechanic noticed no transmission problems nor obvious mixing of diff oil and ATF. The dealer suggested that the oil was leaking into a void space between the back-to-back seals and exiting out the ATF vent. Both noted that the trans case was siliconed an indication that previous work had been done and yet I have not noticed any transmission problems.. Subaru said the back to back seals must be replaced and that $1000 would solve my problem. The transmission specialists I've talked to said that was merely a band aid approach, that the oil is likely mixing with ATF and that the problem was likely transmission related and considering the 129 K miles on it the only
    > viable option was to re-build the transmission. My dilemma is that the transmission seems sound i.e no slipping and how could I justify such a costly repair and yet the dealer has failed to explain where the pressure is coming from to push the diff oil out the ATF vent without mixing. Does the Dealer's explanation seem plausible and have you seen anything like it before? Sorry but I am not technically savvy when it comes to autos and would appreciate any lay person explanation if you are able to understand my description. I have a parts diagram if that would help.
    >
    >I realize that its a gamble with my cars estimated value at $3K for a private sale. What chance would you give me for not developing a transmission problem if I go ahead with the dealer's recommendation? I live in the city and commute to work yet I try to go easy on the acceleration and breaking. Possibly 8 or 9 thousand miles out of the 12K that I put on the car since purchasing it 2 years ago are highway miles. The only other repairs have been some front end body work/realignment and replacing engine oil gaskets.

    An on-line buddy with family connections to an out-of-state subaru dealership wrote:
     
    "If it is leaking higher than halfway up the case won't
    be leaking from the top. Those things are only filled
    halfway with fluid. If the fluid is leaking from the
    top tell him to look up that it is not the
    differential. It is also impossible for the
    differential fluid to come in contact with the trans
    fluid as they are 2 separate items. He is most likely
    losing the fluid through a shaft seal not a big deal
    like 200 bucks takes about 2 1/2 hours and part is
    like 25-40 dollars."
     
    What's your opinion about that possibility? Subaru is claiming that it will take them 6 or more hours to replace the back to back seal. I haven't noticed the leak within the past two weeks in the place I noticed it before. Although I have been driving it less and had a shop clean out both vents. Also I recall there were some loose bolts on the transmission case that had been worked on under a previous owner. They have since been tightened. Yet I still smell a hint of diff oil when the car is at operating temp and the heater is on. The smell is not as bad as before though although the weather is considerably colder than before. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

    Thanks,

    Matt
    Boston,MA
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cue Beatles "Hey Jude" music

    Hey Dude... ;-)

    I replaced the one on my Miata with a rubber fixed antennae. $10 bucks or so, plug and play.

    -juice
  • vince14vince14 Member Posts: 55
    huge value to everyone else, but I used to live on Beekman road in Hopewell Jct, NY, moved over (down?) to Wappingers!

    Not surprising, It's almost snow country in what we former city folk call "upstate", and people in Rochester laugh!

    !08,000 miles on my 00 Ltd, new Nokian WR's, and other than the "check engine" light, Subie's running great. I wish the new Nissan Quest we bought had AWD, (couldn't deal with the wait and the arrogance of Toyota dealers), but I'll finally get to do some comparisons between AWD and Traction control. It's odd pulling away from a stop on wet pavement with the van and spinning wheels! Kinda nostalgic! We held on to our 91 AWD Caravan to get through the winter, or at least until my wife feels comfortable enough with the Quest in the snow. Want to get snows on the quest but the wheel size (almost Subaru like) is 225/65 16.
  • cwbarrettcwbarrett Member Posts: 40
    First the front sunroof was leaking into the front map lights. Dealer couldn't find it three times running a hose. I brought it in after a rainstrom to show them. They wanted to charge me $500 to fix. Because I had complained about it when it was under warranty they agreed to fix it. They took it for a day and replaced the front glass. It still leaks. The next time I opened the sun roof the rear sunroof frame broke. They said that (trying to) fix the front sunroof had nothing to do with breaking the rear one. They wanted $1,000 to fix. The rear door leaks now too. Its a lease. I was going to buy it. I can't decide if I'm lucky to get away from this car or upset because they couldn't fix it. I really liked the way it handles but I'll drop it off next week.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I see that we are working on your situation, and have an open case. I'm sorry it's taking so long, but it looks like they are involving the right people to get this resolved for you once and for all. I'll keep an eye on the case.

    I'm sorry this happened to your Subaru.

    Patti
  • catlady245catlady245 Member Posts: 19
    Hi,

    Our family has owned since Dec of 99 a 2000 wintergreen outback wagon. Presently, it only has 25,000 miles on it and at 20,000 the MAP sensor went bad-which means the power steering failed Thank God my husband was driving at the time because I don't think I could of steered the car. This Map sensor problem occurred right after the warranty was up. The repair was over $300.

    Now four months later, I'm started to see the brake light come on. I guess and hope this means my brake fluids are low, but I can only hope.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Matt,

    Run, don't walk, away from that dealer. Here's a quick logic test for what they told you "It's leaking into a void space between the seals and exiting out the ATF vent". If fluid is going into this space, then how could it be going out the ATF vent? Unless they think the ATF vent is connected to that space. Hello??

    We (you and us) are at a disadvantage here in that you don't know where the leak is coming from, nor do you seem to be sure what the fluid is. If it's coming out the ATF vent (you said 'appears to be'), it's not gear oil from the differential. If something's coming out the ATF vent, it's ATF.

    One of the most basic things you have not told us. Is the tranny fluid at the proper level, or is it too high? Ditto the diff fluid? These are key to know.

    Personally, I think based on the loose bolts and silicone from the previous ownership, you merely have a small weep from somewhere due to improper reassembly. If it were my vehicle, I'd simply get very good at checking the fluid levels in both the front diff and the auto tranny and check them monthly. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have them both changed (by a reputable mechanic) or you could to them yourself if you have an hour and can swing a simple wrench.

    You simply open the drain plug in the tranny, then put 4 quarts back in the dipstick tube. Because fluid coming out the vent is an indicator of an overfilled tranny, I'd put in 3 quarts and warm up the tranny at idle, then check the level (standard practise check with engine running at idle after putting the tranny in each gear selector position). You may find it was overfilled, which would be a problem you've solved. If not, then add .5 quarts and recheck.

    Then open the drain plug in the diff and put 1.5 quarts back in.

    This is not rocket science, but I'm sure the mechanic would charge better than $100 for this. You'll pay about $18 for fluids and spend an hour on it if you break for coffee.

    Doug
  • squeezedlemonsqueezedlemon Member Posts: 18
    Doug,

    I noticed the leak myself and I am aware of the distinct difference between ATF and Diff oil. The first time the problem manifested itself the diff dipstick indicated the case was nearly dry. 3000 miles later it was half way down. The diff oil was leaking from the area of the vent on the side of the front diff dip stick not from the dipstick itself. Perhaps there are other leaks as well. I was told by someone that this is the tranny vent. Maybe I'm mistaken. If I could refer you to a parts diagram the dealership gave me: there is a ring (31348) with 4 holes sandwiched between the back to back seals that separate the tranny from the front diff. The ring looks like it is on the tranny side of a plate (31341) that seperates the 2 halfs. One of the holes leads to a vent (99073) that attaches to a plate and then the vent. Both an independent and the dealer came up with the same diagnosis. The fluids were changed twice since I noticed the problem.
  • pathtomaxpathtomax Member Posts: 215
    I have noticed lately that the radio reception on my 01 OB LTD deteriorates when I turn on my rear defrost. I have had cars that have the antennae integrated in the window and this has never happen before.

    Anyone else have that issue?
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Small world - I am 4 driveways off of Beekman road, 1 mile from Rt 55 (tucked in behind the old homes in Beekmanville Hamlet). Another member, SteveK, used to live in Dalton Farms.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Catlady: the manifold air pressure sensor probably failed and made the car stall, thus you lost power steering boost.

    We saw some of those on the Phase II engines before they changed the intake the following year. Any intake mods would make it blow up. Is your car totally stock, or modified?

    You're out of warranty, though.

    Check the brake fluid level ASAP, it's under a yellow cap and near the fire wall. Have the pads inspected for wear and maybe when you change those also bleed the system, the fluid is old by now anyway.

    -juice
  • tbkpttbkpt Member Posts: 1
    I have a 98 outback that I originally took back to the dealer two times in the first year for burning smell and small oil leak at the front. They told me it was just undercoating burning. Later I had the cv boot recall fixed. I have 98000 miles on it and the leak has continued. It doesn't drop my oil level really though. I have been told it is a leak at the oil pan. I took it back to Subaru at 66,000 miles, just over warranty and they told me there was nothing they could do since it was out of warranty. I said I had taken it back several times in warranty and they did nothing about it.
    Now the car smokes after being driven. My mother has a 98 legacy that is doing the same thing. I believe the drip is going onto the exhaust. My sister in law also had a legacy that did the same thing. My mother's mechanic has mentioned he heard of fires due to this condition.

    Any suggestions and diagnois and pricing?
  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    Brigid,

    I have a 98 OB as well and had what sounds to be a similar experience which is fiarly common on our vehicles in this year range.

    Often the oil leak is from the o-ring gasket for the oil pump which is located on the front side of the engine but is behind the timing belt cover. The oil will leak out from the low end of this cover and get blown back onto the exhaust y-pipe which is hot enough to burn it and cause the smoking and smell.

    Like I said, the failure of this seal is pretty common and the dealers service area should be quite aware of this. It is also pretty easy to deterime since there should be an oil trail leading from the belt cover, over the oil pan, and onto the y-pipe.

    The fix for this is to have the gasket replaced and the timing belt as well considering your mileage and that it is probably soaked in oil by now. The price for the parts are minimal, however there is a good deal of labor involved and those hourly rates do add up.

    Tell the service area that you may suspect this to be the problem and get an estimate based on that. Since you have the complaint on record with them, maybe they will help you out on the charges. I'm sure that others will agree to open a case with subaru to see what they can do.

    Alan
    98 OBW Ltd
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    As your brakes wear, your brake fluid level will drop. Most new cars will turn on your brake light when the fluid level drops to a point that coincides with needing new brake pads. Bottom line, as Juice mentioned, don't just add fluid - have your brakes checked for wear.

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Was in your neck of the woods Saturday. My daughter had a soccer tourney at your fields (intersection of 55 and Beekman). Boy, was it cold.

    Greg
  • vonn1vonn1 Member Posts: 26
    Anyone have any info on dropping down a tire diameter size on the Outback? I have a 2003 Outback wagon with standard 16/225/60 series tires on it. I had a 2001 Volvo V70 before and I still have a set of Blizzak LM-22 snow tires on a set of alloy wheels that I would like to use on the Outback. However, the size of the tire is a 16/225/55 instead of a 16/225/60. I know that you can run a .3+- difference on most cars, but this is more like a .4 or .5+-. Anyone out there ever tried this? I am concerned that my speedo and odo might be off by dropping from a 60 to a 55 diameter.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Your speedo will be off by a factor of 1.035, which is an error of about 2mph at 60mph and about 3mph at 80mph (the speedo will read higher than the speed). In addition, the odo will rack up miles by the same ratio -- for every 1000 miles you travel, it will read 35 extra. This is probably not a big deal if it's just for a few thousand miles in winter.

    Make sure the wheels are the correct offset for your Subaru -- that's the issue I would be more concerned about. I believe my LL Bean Outback rims have an offset of +48mm. It is stamped on the back of the wheel, usually says something like "ET48".

    Craig
  • vonn1vonn1 Member Posts: 26
    Craig, thank you for the info regarding my tire question. We would end up putting at least 10000 miles on the car with the snow tires on. I am not willing to add that many non-miles to the odo. Looks like I am buying new snows. Bummer. Thanks for the tip on offset as well. I am OK in the offset department.

    Vonn
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would not recommend using those tires for an entirely different reason - you lose some ground clearance, and exactly when it counts most.

    So consider it a worthwhile investment to buy a new set.

    -juice
  • vetmatsvetmats Member Posts: 71
    I had a wreck in my H6 Outback and I had to get the front grille replaced. Unfortunately, the body shop where I had it repaired did not put a the "H6-3.0" badge back on the new grille. They claimed that they didn't see how it attached.

    Does anyone exactly how the badge is attached to the grille?

    Thanks,
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd suggest a visit to the dealer, to check out a new one. I bet there are plastic clips on the back, something like that.

    Maybe someone has a pic, though, and can save you the trip.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    parking lot tomorrow and see what I can find and I'll report back here later in the day. Sorry about the wreck and I hope you were less scathed than the car!

    Patti
  • ted50ted50 Member Posts: 1
    Hi Folks
    I purchased a 2003 Legacy SE wagon early Oct this year. At first I loved the car but the wind noise is so bad I am starting to hate it. I sounds like it is right next to my left ear...much worse on windy days. By the way I have factory roof rack but no cross bars....doesn't sound like roof racks anyway....any suggestion? desparate...doen't want to get rid of car
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Well, I took mine off since it seemed to clutter up the front of the car (plus there's an H6-3.0 sticker on the back hatch and another near the shifter if anyone really wants to know).

    I popped mine off by releasing some tabs and pushing it forward, so I'd say to line it up from the outside and push it into the hole (towards the engine). It should click into place.

    Note: my LL Bean is an 02, and they changed the grille slightly for 03 and 04.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    No big deal, head back to the dealer and ask them to adjust the window so it seals better.

    You can speed up the process by pinpointing the noise source. Press on the rubber window gasket near the mirror (called the "gusset") and see if that affects the noise. I think that's the most common source in my experience. Also, look at the windows from the outside, and verify that they are lined up right and sealing correctly (you can look at the other windows to get an idea).

    They can adjust the glass angle and position, as well as the gusset angle. In extreme cases, they can replace the rubber gaskets if they are not sealing right.

    You can also open/close the window up/down a little and see if that makes a difference. If it does, that almost certainly points to an adjustment issue.

    The window gusset in my wife's Forester was making a ton of wind noise. I replaced a part myself and adjusted the window, and it's super-quiet now.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wanna sell your H6 badge? I might like to put that on my SVX :)

    -mike
  • vetmatsvetmats Member Posts: 71
    Thanks for the replies about the H6 grill badge. I was pretty sure that it just clips in. The guy in the body shop doing the work must have just been lazy. The service manager said that the guy couldn't figure out how it attached, so he just sent it back to the dealer!

    I guess that's the result of living somewhere where there are few Subaru's around. I'm hoping that they'll become more common with the new Legacy design.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    That's a good opportunity to clear junk out of my garage, but I'll probably hang on to the badge to re-install if I ever sell/trade the car.

    Where would you install it on the SVX? It's a fairly customized part meant to snap into the Outback grille, so I am not sure it would even be useful to you. However, you can order the H6-3.0 rear emblem (which sticks onto any flat surface) for $27 (probably less online):

    Description:ADHESIVE NAMEPLATE
    Part #:93073AE670
    Price:$26.95

    By the way, I just noticed that you can lookup all Subaru parts online at Liberty Subaru's website, which is really cool:

    http://www.libertysubaru.com/en_US/AboutServiceAndParts_1.chtml

    I spent a couple hours there yesterday browsing.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was gonna suggest putting that H6 badge on Franken L, actually, but it's an H4.

    Agree with Craig on the window seals. We have a Forester and a Legacy, both are quiet. It can be adjusted.

    Cool about Liberty, I've ordered from them before and delivery came quick. Their prices were the best I found at that time.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Thanks for the link. I was going to modify it to fit the front grille or something. But I might get one of those flat ones :)

    -mike
  • mn_patmn_pat Member Posts: 67
    Anybody know when they start selling oxygenated gas at the pumps? Does it matter what part of the coutry you are in? I'm in MN.

    Thanks
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    mn pat,

    Think it starts in October, but not sure. I end up buying the non-oxygenated gas (92 octane) for my tractor, chipper and other small engines. There must be a web site around here that will tell us.

    MNSteve
  • mn_patmn_pat Member Posts: 67
    I found the following on the MN Dept of Agriculture site "On November 1, 1992, the EPA oxygenated fuel program began in the Twin Cities area. The program, required by the Federal Clean Air Act of 1990, prescribed the use of oxygenated fuel in the 10-county metropolitan area during the annual “carbon monoxide nonattainment period”, which runs from October 1 through February 1."

    ummm, interesting I went on a hunting trip in Oct and logged one of best MPG/tank in long time (25.35) and it was oxygenated gas. I thought the oxygenated gas caused lower gas mileage? The bitter cold must have more to do with it than the oxygenated gas? Last winter I got as low as 16mpg on a few tanks.

    link to MN AG page: http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ethanol/hugoiowa.htm
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I have no idea if these gas stations actually monitor who puts the non oxygenated fuel in their vehicles, or if anyone can use it if they want to ignore the law, but the Minnesota Street Rod Association has a list of stations that sell non oxygenated fuels.

    http://www.msra.com/NonOxygenatedFuel/Non-OxyFuel.htm
  • mn_patmn_pat Member Posts: 67
    What is the reason for it anyway? Does it prevent gas line freeze up or is it enviromentally cleaner?
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I believe it is pollution related but I can't speak intelligently on the subject, so I won't try. :)
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    IIRC when I lived in MN before 97, the oxy fuel was "oxy" all year round in the Twin Cities. It was easier for the oil companies to do that than change plus as its gasohol they use it keeps the farmers happy!Oxy fuel is supposed to reduce smog in some fashion or other.
    Best thing about it is that you don;t need to add Heet etc in winter anymore!
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    cptplt, I was actually going to say that. I think you are correct. It may even be statewide now.

    Is a 10% ethanol composition considered an oxygenated fuel? I know the gas in the Twin Cities has 10% ethanol all year round.
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Thanks for the link, mn pat.

    They found out in the twin city area that the air wasn't as "dirty" as they thought. So, several years ago they dropped the required yearly test. But the oxygenated fuel still remains with us.

    One year I didn't run the gas out of the outboard. It cost a few bucks to have the carb cleaned and rebuilt as this oxy gas leaves residue when it vaporizes. Now I put Sta-bil in every tank/gas can when they will sit for a while.

    MNSteve
  • mhinkson2mhinkson2 Member Posts: 5
    I have a 03 LLBean OB and at 7k miles my brakes warped. The dealer resurfaced them, but the vibration came back. The dealer would not replace the rotors so I contacted SOA who opened up a case. I brought the car in today and the dealer replaced the rotors at 11k miles. When I picked up the vehicle I noticed that there was no mention of replacing the brake pads. I asked the service representative and he said that SOA didn't authorize the brake pads to be replaced only the rotors. I thought it was necessary to replace the pads when new rotors are put on. I can't imagine that SOA would not know this. Am I not correct in assuming that it is expected that the pads be replaced when the rotors are replaced. Also has anyone heard anything from SOA about the wind noise coming from the driver side window (in the corner by the tweeter). When I asked SOA, he (Barry) said that he had not heard of this problem, yet the dealer said they even lost a sale because of it and I've seen it mentioned numerous times on this web site. I don't feel SOA is taking the responsibility on these issues that they should.
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    My 2001 LLBean's front rotors were turned at 10K and replaced at 22K - along with the front pads. All was done for free - they didn't even tell me until it was done.

    At 51K all is still fine with both, but I need to get the rear pads checked. No other problems with the car (knock on plastic wood).

    So, you should have gotten new pads. Some dealers do it right, some don't...

    Ralph
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Both my Outbacks needed to have the rotors turned in the first 10K miles. They have been fine since. Be very sure that the wheels are not overtorqued, as that is a certain way to warp your rotors.

    I don't think you need to get new pads with new rotors. If the pads are in good shape, they can definitely stay in service. So, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Noise coming from the mirror/gusset area can be fixed. The gusset angle and or glass angle and position are all adjustable. Worst case, the weatherstripping and gaskets can be replaced.

    You can look here:

    http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/gusset/

    for a fix I performed on my wife's Forester. Made a night and day difference in the noise level.

    Craig
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    I am going in on the 20th to have my 4th set of rotors mounted.

    As far as I know, new pads are not required.

    I was looking at Brembo's site, but they don't seem to have a set for my H6... oh well.

    I will insist they hand torque them this time.
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    I am going in for a 24,000Kms service next week, and am wondering what the benifits/drawbacks of using synthetic oil are. Why would I want to switch?

    It is a 2003 Outback H6 3.0

    With thanks
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    In theory you could go to longer drain times though even Mobil 1 don't recommend this though others like Redline, Amsoil do.
    Some cheap dino oils have a low coking temperature which could be a problem with eg turbo engines which can run quite hot.Thats why I use it in my WRX . But I don't use it on my Legacy.
    Will it make that much difference in a H6, probably not. But if you want to go to longer drain intervals and not hassle with getting that oil change as often and you are doing your own changes or supply your own oil to the dealer its not that much more expensive than dino.
    I also use synthetic in my RV as it sits around a lot, regular dino could theoretically drain into the sump more and leave the cylinders etc less protected with an oil film when not used.
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    If you don't put alot of miles on your car, and don't expect to keep it forever, I don't think synthetic is worth the extra cost. I do use it in my Outback, but only because I need to get 150k miles at least, and I drive between 28-30k miles per year (with dino I'd be changing oil almost every month). I use dino on my wife's car which is only driven 12k miles per year, usually Havoline which I feel is a pretty good oil.

    Jon
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At 11k the pads prolly didn't have any wear. Dunno, it may be a judgement call by the mechanic that inspects it?

    The door window angle can be adjusted to fix that noise, but you might want to consider working with a different dealer.

    Great pics, Craig. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

    -juice
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