Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

glocker23

Have a 1996 Outback wagon. IT has been a great car for 120k miles. However, when started (after sitting a while regardless of ambient temperature) it starts right up but if I drive it it wil shake around 40~60mph and then die (it acts as if it is running on 3 cylinders). Sometimes the check engine light will come on. Once the engine has been running for 5~10 minutes (whether warming in the garage or driving) it drives without a hitch. It also consume 1qt of oil /3~4 weeks - but does not smoke from exhaust.

I have had the light diagnosed - it is cylinder 4 misfire.

I have changed the following in hopes to solve the problem:
computer brain
plugs and wires (all)
temp sensor (twice)
coil
cam angle sensors
mass air flow sensor
pvc and air filter
checked and no apparent lose conections on wires

Anybody give help?? Please e-mail me with your comments as I cannot check this forum often (spmiller@seidata.com). Thanks.

barc

You could try swapping the injector to a different cylinder. Check the connector and wires at the injector too. unplug all 4 injector electric connectors, then unbolt the fuel rail to expose the injector tips then turn on the key and see if the injectors drip fuel. My $.02. Do at your own risk.

erics6

Dealer meant fan belts. Timing belt does not need to be replaced. So 83k is a good life for the belts?

c_hunter

83K is pushing it for belts. I think they are listed as a "check and replace if necessary" maintenance item at 30K, 60K, etc...

Craig

pathtomax

I know everyone always asks about the rotors being defective; I would just like to know the signs that they are going...

My brakes seem to be "pumping" lately. I slow down from higher speeds and they seem to tighten, lighten, tighten. I love trying to describe this way!

Thanks for any input!

c_hunter

The common symptoms from warped rotors are:

1) vibration in the brake pedal when braking
2) vibration in the steering wheel when braking
3) buzz/hum noise when braking
4) "oscillation" in braking power

I think you're describing #4 (I also made up that way of describing it). If you don't have #1 , #2, or #3, it's probably not too bad. I wouldnt worry about it unless the more severe symptoms show up.

Craig

ateixeira

Squeeky belts should be replaced. In fact my Miata's belts are squeeky, if it were not so cold I'd change them myself today.

By the way, at 45k miles I'll get about half the life you got out of yours.

-juice

erics6

Okay. You convinced me. Dealer want about $80, which seems a little high to me, since it looks pretty easy to swap them out. (Above my mechanical skill level though.)

c_hunter

The belt (for my H6 Outback) cost about $23 (discounted 20%) and took 10-15 minutes to replace. However, the H6 has an auto-tensioner. On the H4, I believe you have to adjust the tension manually. So, it may take a bit longer and require the ability to judge belt tension properly. I guess $80 is probably reasonable at dealer rates.

Craig

ateixeira

$80 is fair, IMO. My dealer's labor rate is $92 per hour, and some places even have a one hour minimum, which would force the price a lot higher.

It's cold out there, and you'll probably save a couple of skinned knuckles. ;-)

-juice

leo2633

I like your handle. I'm a 21 man myself, but our PD is going G23. I think you understand!

Len

rickrosh

Hi there,
Wondering if any body has heard of a problem with the hood. We have a OB 1997, driving at highway speed the hood came up and smashed the windshield in and obscured vision! Thank goodness all were safe but a freak accident. There was no indication the hood was open (ie. no light indicator) Anyone else have this problem, going to talk to Subaru and insurance agent today! Thanks

ateixeira

Wow, thankfully you were OK. That could have been a mess. In driver's Ed back when I took it, they actually had a simulation of that scenario. Now I know why!

But no, never heard of that happen on a Subie, in fact it's pretty rare overall. I don't think there is a "hood open" light, though.

-juice

stever

There's not one on my '97 Outback I don't think; otherwise I probably would have noticed that I didn't shut it good the other day after checking the oil at the gas station. I don't tend to spot the door ajar lights immediately either though.

I happened to notice the hood rattling coming down the ski hill (where conditions limit your speed to 40 mph or so, tops, and usually slower).

I guess I was lucky that mine didn't pop open like yours, Rick.

Steve, Host

genegold

On the scale of things, this doesn't compare with leaking head gaskets (maybe I'll get there), but it is a longstanding annoyance with my '99 OB. Since early on the low fuel warning light usually has not come on until there is about 0.5 gallons remaining in the tank. It's supposed to come on at 13.9 gallons or so I think, but it does not come on, or even flicker, until into the 15s, and the tank holds 15.9. In fact, even in the 15s it often doesn't come on until the engine is off and being restarted. I know about these amounts because normally I top off (saves time and allows checking gas mileage).

I raised this with the dealer in the first year or so of ownership. They couldn't find anything wrong, but eventually replaced the fuel pump and I think everything else associated with that circuit. But the problem continued. I contacted SOA by email, where the problem was sent to the engineers. Their response was a lot of double talk: it depends on how much it's filled, the calibration of the gas pump, etc., etc., etc.; i.e., we don't believe you, don't want to deal with it and don't bother us. And here I've got the matter documented time and again with receipts! The SOA rep said, "Sorry, that's the best I can do," and that's how it has stood since. I did file a complaint with the National Highway Safety Administration, but can't imagine this type of problem gets much attention until, maybe, someone gets killed on the road or roadside because of it.

Now, I watch my mpg and don't run it low very often by any means, but in the normal course of driving, variations in gas mileage, looking for a low price, and wanting to fill up as little as possible, it does get down there sometimes.

I don't know if anyone has a suggestion. I have just heard that a Subaru rep lurks here. This car has held up well for me and I have to admit this is the only real problem encountered in 5 years and 78k miles -- knock on wood -- but I would like to find a solution. Thanks,

Gene

P.S. Funny, on a spell check, Subaru is considered a misspelled word.

dougb10

To me, the solution is pretty simple. Ignore the low fuel light (or the lack of one), and fill up when the fuel gas gauge shows one quarter tankful left.

ateixeira

Do that and use one of the two trip odometers to measure how far you travel on each tankful.

I usually fill up just after 300 miles. This is usually more accurate than even the fuel guage.

-juice

oregonsubie

Just a follow up to a post by Juice earlier regarding subaru car history. Histories are tied to the original owner, histories only show work down under warranty. You CANNOT get a subaru history over the phone unless you are the original owner. You CAN however take the car to your subaru dealership and they can get the information for you. They are not required to give you this information though. I just purchased a used Legacy GT wagon and found all of this out. You can use carfax to find out if the car has had any accidents, etc..
-Mark

ateixeira

I'm not even sure how accurate those are, Carfax that is.

For a while they had a free one-time offer, so I ran one on my own Miata. It was totally clear, even though it had been hit by a Saab, the door skin and fender on the passenger side were replaced.

So it doesn't have that much detail. It may tell you if the car was ever totalled, though.

-juice

darandall

Thanks everybody for you posts and advice. It was in fact a head gasket, although only on one side of the engine. They also replace the timing belt - suggested that 90,000 miles was a wise limit, and that when "stuff got on the belt it should be replaced sooner. I also had a defective/broken fuel injector. Some of the repairs were not covered by the extended warranty, but I don't feel so bad paying $370 for all that was done. The dealer was very responsive - Cityside Subaru, outside Boston.
Patti - Thank you for your prompt response. Subaru should be glad to have employees like you! Donn

outback_97

FWIW:

The fuel gauge on my 97 OBW is very paranoid... it tells me I'm on "E" at 200 miles or so, even though there are still several gallons in the tank. This is a common problem with Outbacks of this vintage.

On another board someone poasted instructions for cleaning the contacts on the fuel level sending unit(s), maybe this would affect the light as well as the gauge?

My solution: ignore the gas gauge and just use the trip odometer, as Juice suggested. I don't like to let mine get below 1/3 to 1/4 tank anyway, especially this time of the year.

utahsteve

genegold

To dougb10, ateixeira and outback 97:

I don't understand. Why are you blowing off my attempt to find a real solution to the low fuel light problem, and in particular hook up with a Subaru rep or maybe someone who has experience with the problem and actually found a solution via Subaru, another mechanic, or while toying around on their own? Obviously there are workarounds (implied in my original post), but just as obviously I wouldn't have posted here if I weren't looking for something better. If you have anything to offer in that quest, of course you're help is welcome.

Gene

ladywclass

I didn't know they 'blew you off' ... I've driven long enough to know that even the FUEL GAUGE itself isn't always accurate, and with that in mind I've never relied on the "idiot light" ... yes, it's great when everything works as it should, but if you have a 4-5 year old car and this is the only thing you can find to complain about ... count yourself lucky ..

cab12

During first starts in the morning, when shifting from park to drive, it takes 2-3 sec, and slams hard into drive. It also does this when coming out of reverse. Dealer indicates I need a new transmission, find this hard to believe with only 71k miles. Says it will cost $1800. Car has been great up till now, whats my next step

subaru_team

contacts you had with us in 2000 and 2001? I'm not sure if there is any current information that would help, but you could always call in and have it checked out again. FWIW - the Reps. did not intend to minimize your concerns. They had checked it out thoroughly with some of our technical folks and they did reply that it isn't an "exact" science. I'm sorry if it appeared that they hadn't done research.

Has a dealer checked it out for your lately? That is usually the best course of action. If you decide to reopen the case, let the Rep. know that I'd like to see the case file. I'm not sure if we can provide you a better answer, but we'd be happy to work with the dealer to see if there is anything that can be done to make you happier.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team

call into us? Please have the VIN and the name of the repairing dealer available and let the Rep. know that I'd like to see the case file. I'm not sure what we can do, but we can look into it for you.

Sorry about the problem.`

subaru_team

latch mechanism. It is a part that should be lubricated once in awhile. They should be able to see if it was working correctly. I'm really glad that you are okay. That must have been scary to experience. It isn't something that I've heard of happening, but I am aware that the latch should be checked out as part of general maintenance. I guess that's why? Was the hood opened recently?

I'm really sorry that it happened and, once again, I'm glad you are okay.

Patti

taddison

A friend of mine has his 2002 Outback in the shop for the second time now to have a leaking head gasket replaced under warranty - the first time was only 16,000 miles ago. This time they are sending the head to a machine shop to ensure it isn't warped.

I have read previously here that leaky gaskets are a known problem with this engine, so I have a couple of questions that hopefully the knowledgable people here can answer:

1) How might the problem have re-occurred a second time? Does Subaru know what causes the problem and know how to fix it, or do they just replace the gasket and hope for the best? Is it a revised gasket? Different torquing procedures?

2) Is there a TSB for this problem and where might I find a copy of it?

3) What happens if his problem occurs again once the car is out of warranty? Will he then be able to make a warranty claim based on the original problem never having been fixed correctly, or is he out of luck?

4) Has the problem been eliminated on newer models coming from the factory? I ask this for my own benefit because a 2005 is on my shopping list and it looks like the 2.5L engine will carry forward unchanged (assuming I don't go for the turbo).

Thanks for your help,
Tim A.

subaru_team

Your friend should start a case with us so we can look into the situation. I can't say much about this issue right now, but stay tuned. We have been looking into it and no - it is not an issue with newer models (from what I've learned). I'm sorry I can't post more information about this issue at this time, but, please trust in that we always try to do the right thing.

When your friend calls, please ask them to have their VIN, the name of the repairing dealer, and ask the Rep. to let me know when the case is started so I can take a look. I can't handle it personally, but I will make sure everything is in order.

Sorry -

Patti

taddison

Thanks, Patti, I'll pass this on to him.

Tim.

philip22

Any suggestions for replacement tires for a 99 Legacy Outback Wagan? We had a bit of snow last week and I was sliding all over the road. I checked the tires and the front are ready to be replaced. (46K miles). I already took a look at the subaru website and my owner's manual. Any suggestions for brand and models? Anything to avoid?

Thanks

ateixeira

Glad to hear you were happy and resolved that, Donn.

Sorry, Gene, didn't mean to blow you off. Just suggesting alternatives.

I don't think I've ever owned an accurate fuel guage. My Escort would read empty with 4-6 gallons left. My Miata just read empty after 199 miles! I filled up and it only took 8 gallons (tank is 12), that's only using 2/3rds of the entire tank!

Tim: I think they're going about it the right way. There probably was some warping, and machining it back to smooth should help. If it's smooth again, the new gasket should be better.

Repairs are guaranteed for a year, I believe, whether or not the warranty is still in effect. But do open a case with 800-SUBARU3 so they have detailed records. I very much doubt they'd leave your friend out in the cold.

Philip: replace all four tires, not just two. Circumference has to be within 1/4", no way will that be the case with 2 new tires and 2 tires with 46k miles. Shop tirerack.com, www.discounttiredirect.com, and vulcantire.com, you'll find several options.

-juice

philip22

Any suggestions for replacement tires for a 99 Legacy Outback Wagan? We had a bit of snow last week and I was sliding all over the road. I checked the tires and the front are ready to be replaced. (46K miles). I already took a look at the subaru website and my owner's manual. Any suggestions for brand and models? Anything to avoid?

Thanks

K9Leader

"I'm not even sure how accurate those are, Carfax that is.
For a while they had a free one-time offer, so I ran one on my own Miata. It was totally clear, even though it had been hit by a Saab, the door skin and fender on the passenger side were replaced.
So it doesn't have that much detail. It may tell you if the car was ever totalled, though."

Carfax gathers its info from publicly-available government (DMV) records -- mostly title changes/renewals/salvage titles. Accidents won't show up unless it involved totalling the vehicle and an ownership change, possibly/probably involving a salvage title.

Carfax can provide useful information -- title changes (and locations of those changes), odometer readings (at the time of title changes),
and a few other things. So, if you are looking at buying a used car, a Carfax report can rule out a certain car or at least clue you in on its history and problems. But, a clean Carfax does not necessarily mean the car is clean, it just means there is nothing that would show up on Carfax. A clean Carfax report should not be assumed to be a substitute for a thorough inspection and evaluation of the vehicle.

--K9Leader

ateixeira

Cool, that clarifies it.

-juice

dougb10

Philip22....just replaced my tires on our '97 Outback Limited with Michelin X-Ones. These tires are being discontinued and we got them for a good price. Went up one size wider ...just got back from a 6,000 km. trip to the U.S. and they performed perfectly.
We had X-Ones on a '99 Sienna van and I was amazed how well they worked. Had 50,000 km. on them when the car was traded and they still looked almost new. I am pretty easy on tires, keep them properly inflated and don't hot rod around corners like I did when I was a kid.
Check them out if you can still find them...but I have had good luck with all Michelin's. Have a set on my '03 Camry (Michelin Energy).
Good luck. Doug

philip22

Any suggestions for replacement tires for a 99 Legacy Outback Wagan? We had a bit of snow last week and I was sliding all over the road. I checked the tires and the front are ready to be replaced. (46K miles). I already took a look at the subaru website and my owner's manual. Any suggestions for brand and models? Anything to avoid?

Thanks

pathtomax

I have not had to replace my tires yet, but on my two previous cars I had the Michelin MXV4 Plus. They do very well here in snow & ice conditions in New England.

My only obsessive note, I actually like the white lettering on the tires of my Outback Limited. I guess I would give those up once I replace the OEM tires?

ateixeira

Look for tires with "RWL", i.e. raised white lettering. A few offer that.

-juice

outback_97

If you read my post #2316, you'd see I mentioned:

"On another board someone posted instructions for cleaning the contacts on the fuel level sending unit(s), maybe this would affect the light as well as the gauge?"

At the time I posted I didn't have the link at hand, and you didn't ask for it, but here it is:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze730qe/fuel_sending_unit_instructions- .html

As I already mentioned, this may help you with your fuel light problem, it may not.

As for any other problems you have, automotive or otherwise... I think you'll find that people will be more willing to help you when you treat them with respect. I think it's fabulous that there are many friendly, knowledgeable people on this board offering good information without expecting anything in return.

utahsteve

toca

When I come to a complete stop with my car in "D", I feel a vibration that goes away only if I put it in neutral or park. My vehicle is a '98 OB AT w/ 125K. Could the engine mounts be loosening? Any other ideas as to what may be causing this?

Thanks.

bkaiser1

I second that suggestion for the MXV4's -- I had them on my 01 Outback and they were absolutely the best tires I've ever had. The car rode so much better with those than they did with the Dunlop SP Sport A2's (or the OEM Firestones) and the winter/wet handling was excellent. I drive mostly on interstate highways 2-3K miles a month, all in the mountains between Sacramento and Reno, and those tires handled great at high speeds (80mph or so). They're not an all out performance tire (luxury touring, I believe Michelin calls it) but I liked them enough to consider them on my WRX wagon.

Brian

philip22

Thanks for the input on tire selection. Has anyone had any experience with the Michelin Harmony or the Goodyear Aquatred 3?

Thanks

philip22

Are the MXV4 the same as the "Energy MXV4"?

ateixeira

One Forester owner had an early version of the AQ3 tire and they were out of balance. I think that's been sorted out but you might want to read up on it.

-juice

philip22

Are the MXV4 the same as the "Energy MXV4"?

zman3

Your car sounds like mine. This is one of the things I do not like about my Outback. I took it to the dealer under warranty and was told that the idle can't be adjusted due to the computer control, the idle speed is within spec, blah, blah, blah. I've just learned to live with it, but it is an annoyance. I suspect mine is not an engine mount issue since I had the short block replaced and I assume they would have found something at that time.

Has yours just started doing it or is the car new to you?

pathtomax

Yes, they are the Energy.

paisan

My uncle's HG went on his '97 recently at 97K miles. Had to get a new head as well IIRC.

-mike

paisan

After any spring install you need to have the car re-aligned.

-mike