Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lemons have to be less than a year old and under 12k miles, usually, so yours doesn't even come close to qualifying. Here is a list of laws by state:

    http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon2.html

    Usually you need 3 strikes on the same component within that time frame, too.

    Any how, call 800-SUBARU3 and give them the full history of your brake problems. SoA can work with your dealer, or another local dealer, and even send out tech specialists to look at your case if necessary.

    What you can do is make sure the lugs are torqued properly (not more than 75 lb-ft). Also, after a hard stop, try to allow the brakes to cool with the pads not touching the rotor, since they cool at different rates.

    Rotors sizes did get bigger in the next model year, IIRC, so those rotors are disporsing a lot of heat to stop all that mass.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    My '00 Outback developed the warped rotors probably around 10k as well. I've never had the rotors replaced or serviced and have lived with 'em for now (currently at 33k).

    But since I've started doing my own maintenance starting in January '03, I haven't noticed the warping as much. It's still there, but not as pronounced and sometimes not noticeable.

    YMMV, ;-)

    -Brian
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    it appears that the Sr. Rep. is working with the DSOM pulling documents to get a handle on the situation. I've asked them to call you right away.

    I'm surprised your experiences with the Rep. you initially spoke with were poor. She is someone that usually is very friendly and goes over and above. I'm sure she didn't intend to sound terse. I will speak to her though.

    Brakes - all I can say is to phone or e-mail in your experiences. The more information we can feed back to FHI about the quality, the better the chance we'll find a way to improve them. I know that some things go wrong due to rotations and torquing, but, overall - you seem unhappy. Please remember to remind your dealers to use the on-the-car lathe. I've seen what a better job they do.

    Patti
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Bob,

    I have a 2000 OBW as well, and I had both front and rear rotors and brake pads replaced at around 33K. Since then, no problems (knock on wood) and I'm at 51K. I remember my service rep saying Suabru had a problem with the brakes in 2000, that's why they changed companies and design for the next year.
        Like Craig suggests, maybe try a different dealer.

    Mark
  • canyuntrashcanyuntrash Member Posts: 7
    from all who responded. And I actually got a call from SOA yesterday, but unfortunately was on a conference call and will call back today. I sure hope we can get this resolved.
    Thing is, I REALLY like the car. Just yesterday, someone remarked "what a nice ride". I bit my tongue about the issues and thanked them. I like the company too, for the organizations they support: I'm a rabid mountain biker and big IMBA fan, even having put up one of the Subie/IMBA trail care crew at my house a few years back.
    This is my 3rd new Subie, and if I can get this issue fixed, it won't be my last.
    Again, thanks to all who responded, especially Patti.
    Have a great weekend!
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    I traded in my 2000 Legacy L Sedan (5MT)in on a 2003 Legacy SE Wagon (4EAT)because I was getting a judder on it's 2nd clutch in 25000 miles and I wanted a little more cargo room.
    I have some concerns with the new Legacy.
    The 4EAT shifts a little firmly, but I like it. I have two concerns. I drove the wagon on slippery pavement today and detected a harsh switch from front traction to the rear. In my sedan, the traction was always endetectible.
    Next, Since the weather has turned cold, I have noticed a clacking sound from the engine (sounds like a wrist pin) until it reaches operating temperature.
    Finally, I hear a very low frequency moan from the chassis at speeds over 50 MPH. The sedan was more quiet. This may be just the nature of wagons.

    The wagon has only 700 miles on it. So, maybe these things will clear up after a few more miles of break-in.
    What do you think? Should I be concerned, or am I nit picking?
    -Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You have a very well calibrated butt-dyno.

    Indeed, your 5 speed had a viscous coupling. Power is 50/50 until one axle slips, that thickens the fluid in the center VC and locks them together. But it's smooth because both axles are already moving and both already get some power.

    The auto sends most power to the front axle, you're feeling more clutches engaging to send more power to the rear. This transition is more abrupt, because you might be going from 90/10 to 40/60 (just an example) all of the sudden.

    Still, most people don't notice.

    Wagons are louder because you have 2 more windows, and a bigger resonance chamber.

    Still, check your tires, make sure pressures are up and they're worn evenly. Next oil change ask them to inspect the wheel bearings, which could be making that moan. Even though your Legacy has the new wheel bearings that hardly ever fail, it would actually be the first case I'd seen.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    With the 4EAT, you will hear/feel a thud if you really get on the accelerator in slippery conditions as the clutch packs lock up and send a bunch of torque aft. If you go easier on the throttle, the transition is much more gentle (I discovered all of this playing in a snowy parking lot a couple years ago).

    I agree with Juice, check all your tires to make sure they are inflated properly, and also maybe get the balanced checked. My wagon is not super quiet, but I don't recall any moans!! I do get a low volume high-pitched whine at high speed (>70mph) which is normal - it's pinion gears or something.

    Regarding the clacking sound, check your oil to be on the safe side, but I'd say it's normal cold engine behavior. It could also be something that will go away as the engine breaks in.

    Craig
  • luke46luke46 Member Posts: 4
    I am also having a mysterious overheating problem with my 96 Outback Wagon 2.5. Some gunk showed up in the overflow tank. I've replaced the thermostat, radiator, and water pump and am still having the problem. At times the temp gauge will go up and down at random. It overheats, blows out about a liter of coolant, but the radiator is cool. After a few minutes I can drive it again. Sometimes 50 miles before it happens again.
     
    A question to anyone else who has had this problem: Did you have an alternator failure back a few years ago that caused your car to over heat? I did. I took it to the dealer and got it fixed. Then a few weeks later I got a refund for the cost and a letter stating if I accept the refund I waive any right to make claims related to the repair. I thought it was odd, but I took the money. Since then the dealership has been sold, and all my service records on the dealers computer system were mysteriously lost in the transaction. They have everyone's service records... except mine... Hmmm. Now this gunk shows up. I am the original owner and have never put sealant in the radiator. I suspect that they knew the alternator problem caused overheating that cracked the head gasket, sealed it and never told me. If this sounds familiar I'd be interested to hear about it.

    Thanks,
    luke46
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Just occurred to me -- that moan noise could be coming from the roof rack crossbars, if you have them mounted. You might want to take them off and see if the noise goes away. I keep my crossbars off most of the time, but they do make a hum/moan noise when I put them on.

    Craig
  • yuyaxyuyax Member Posts: 11
    The note below was posted first in the Sub Crew board. I am here to see if I can get more feedback. Thanks

    If anybody can provide some answers to my questions below regarding my 02 Outback Limited w/manual transmission, I will really appreciate it.

    1- I use Mobil 1 exclusively but I have a hard time getting a good reading from the dip stick. I do my own oil changes and I always refill to approx 4.2 quarts of oil, including a Purolator oil filter. After I drive the car for a few days, I pull out the dipstick to check it. If the car has been sitting on a flat surface, the dipstick shows approx 1/2 inch of oil (1/2 inch from the tip/bottom of the diptsick). Oil covers the whole tip of the dipstick. This is before wiping it clean.

    After I wipe it clean, I re-insert the dipstick all the way in and pull it out to check on it. Now the dipstick shows oil ONLY on the edges, a little less than before, less than 1/2 inch. I am not sure how to interpret this reading.

    The car seems to run fine, no overheating/good temperature, no warning lights, ok mileage, etc.

    When I change the oil, the catch pan has at least 4 qts of used oil.

    Is anybody else having a hard time reading their dipsticks? Or is this dipstick not very well engineered or positioned?

    Could I be really low on oil even though it doesn't 'feel' like it? Any input, suggestions?

    2- The famous vent issues. I read from another poster about the not being able to direct the flow of air completely from defrost, upper body or feet. There is always residual air coming out from the other vents. Is there a fix for this?

    3- My battery is showing some traces of fluid leakage on the outside. There are white sediment trails on the sides of the battery. Is the battery leaking or cracked? Are batteries cover under the 3/36 warranty?

    4- I am also experiencing the smudge areas on the windshield visible only when the wipers are wet and make a pass. I did not notice this problem before.

    Parts replaced previously under warranty:

    1- Clutch has been replaced with the 'improved' one. No more buckling.

    2- Left, exterior side mirror, gusset has been replaced. No more annoying and excessive wind noises while driving

    My driving style and habits are pretty sedate. No burning rubber or jack rabbit starts.

    Just for additional info. This is my second Subaru. Still have my first one, an 88 GL Wagon with the original clutch, engine, manual tranny. No problems aside from the regular maintenance issues.

    Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions,

    Eug
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    My dipstick is also tough to get an accurate reading and as a DIY-er, I also closely monitor and change my oil. I think it's the dipstick tube's rather long angled run vs a straight vertical tube that's the issue. Here's what I've worked out to check my oil accurately:

    Park the car in the garage for the night after whatever driving you do - preferably while the engine's hot. Remove the dipstick and lay it on the radiator after cleaning (on paper towel). Leave hood up as absolute way of not forgetting. In the morning, you will have a single opportunity to check the oil by inserting it and seating it all the way, then pulling it out. The action of pulling it out drags oil up the dipstick tube that then messes up future readings until may hours of slow flow clear the tube again.

    Works for me. I usually do it the day after I change it with 4.2qts and it comes out right.

    IdahoDoug
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    can be downright confounding at times. I get a good read by doing something similar to Doug's suggestion (i.e., let the engine cool down and leave the stick out for a while. The dipstick also reads better on one side than the other.

    Nevertheless, if you're getting the right amount out on your oil drains, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

    Jon
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Hey there everybody,

    I know the rotors on the Outback have been a bone of contention for most of you.

    I recently had all 4 replaced, the 3th set on the front, and 2nd for the rear.

    This time, I ordered the mechanic to hand tighten them with a torque wrench. (Using the impact wrench grossly over-tightens them and holds the rotors in a bent position which they hold after repeated heating.) Natrually, it is the rookies that they stick on brake jobs, and to save time, they use the impact wrench.

    This time, they indicated on the service order (for the first time) that the wheels had been torqued to 65 foot-lbs.

    My commute takes me through the city (small city, but it is a city) then on to the highway. At high speeds, the rotors are as smooth as can be. I have lightened up slightly on how hard I use the brakes, but I am sure that hand-tightening the wheel nuts has made a difference.

    Before people get fed up with warped rotors and threaten not to buy another Subaru, have the dealers replace the rotors and hand-tighten the nuts. It will make a difference.
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    I have a tentative deal on purchasing a '00 Outback pending a dealer inspection. Knowing of the warping rotors problem, I asked the seller if he ever had any problems with his brakes and he says no, never did, all original. Is this possible at 45k?

    Ditto with the clutch, no problem.

    The seller seems like a nice, believable, honest guy. Perhaps this Outback is one that simply did not have any of thse problems, perhaps he is not as honest as I think.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    luke: you probably have either leaky seals or gaskets, i.e. an internal leak is causing that overheating. Unfortunately it won't be cheap or easy to fix.

    andrewk: my '98 Forester has the original clutch, original brake discs and drums, original brake pads and shoes, even, at 58k miles. It's definitely possible.

    -juice
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    Thanks a lot for your replies.

    Your explanations of the 4EAT front/rear torque switching make sense. I feel better about that.

    The sound complaint I now notice at speeds as low as 40 MPH and it really is more of a rumble than a moan. I will recheck my tire pressure. What is really curious is sometimes the noise is present some times it is not. This morning I noticed it went away after making a left turn. The noise is not coming from crossbars, because I don't have any. I was wondering if the rails running front to back could be causing some wind turbulence.
    Juice, now that you mention it, the sound could be a wheel bearing problem, or maybe CV joints that are binding. I'll have my Subaru dealer look into it.

    The engine clack is still bothering me. I would have taken it in earlier, but it is only present when the engine is cold. When fully warmed up, the only sounds are the expected clicking from fuel injectors and valves.

    Again, you comments are greatly appreciated.

    - Jim
  • vetmatsvetmats Member Posts: 71
    andrewk,
     I recently traded in my '00 Outback for an '03. My '00 Outback was a five-speed with 70K on it, with the original clutch, rotors and brake pads. I never had any problems out of them.
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    vetmats, thanks I appreciate it!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I don't think the problems are universal, and the rotor issue is far more likely to happen on auto-trans cars. In addition, I'd bet it's at least 70% due to overtorqued rotors. If the car has been well cared for and nobody was slamming on the brakes, the rotors could be perfectly fine.

    Are the brake pads original? Are they in good shape? The original brakes should be 50-70% worn by about 46K miles, so that would tell you something.

    Craig
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Why do you say that warped rotors are far more likely on cars with automatic transmissions?
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    2000 Legacy changed my pads around 70k. Interesting that the rear pads were almost gone but the fronts still had 40% of the lining!

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably because automatics creep forward when in "D" at a stand still.

    Manuals will be in neutral. Also, more people use engine braking with manuals.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Auto cars chew through brakes significantly faster than manual trans cars, for the reasons Juice mentioned. This ends up meaning more wear and tear on the rotors.

    Craig
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    Good points, I never thought of that
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Brought my '02 Bean in for the suspension warranty fix and they fixed my noisy driver's side window gusset as well for free! They adjusted the gusset in really tight (I brought in a picture someone posted here to make sure they knew what I was talking about - thanks!). Very pleased with the MUCH quieter cabin, now if I only could do something about those noisy tires... :-)

    They even gave me an '03 limited as a loaner...doesn't take much to keep the (non-paying) customer happy ;-)

    Matt
  • luke46luke46 Member Posts: 4
    I'm wondering if trying a engine sealant can cause problems, or if the worst case is that it just doesn't work. I'm considering some K&W Block Seal that I picked up at Auto Zone. Can this stuff harm my engine and make matters worse? Or is it worth a try?
    Thanks!
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    My 01 Outback began making a loud rumbling sound from 30-40 mph on up -- it turns out that all 4 tires were cupped and the feathered tread was causing the noise. I lived with the sound for about 10k miles before putting new tires on, which solved the rumbling sound completely. You might want to chech your tires for the tell-tale light/dark "feathering" on the tread to see if that might be the cause of the problem.

    Brian
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    Brian,

    I don't think it applies in my case. The tires have only 1200 miles on them... Not enough miles to develop cupping or feathering.

    But I appreciate the advice just the same.

    -Jim
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    I'm not sure if this is the same problem as Jim's, but my 2004 Legacy had a slight thumping noise at 60+ mph since day one (I should have driven it on the highway before picking it up). They determined it was one of the tires, so they replaced all 4 Potenzas (car had 3,000 miles at this point) with 4 new Continental ConntiTouringContacts.

    Anyone have any comments on which tire is better -Potenzas or Continentals? The Continentals seem to be quiet (the thumping stopped) and appear to have a good grip on both dry pavement and in the snow.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    That Conti tire has been an original equipment mainstay of upscale European cars for many years. The design is getting a bit long in the tooth, but it's well proven and an excellent choice.

    DougM
  • darandalldarandall Member Posts: 57
    My 2000 Outback 70,000 miles started overheating again. 4 months ago, I had a problem. Pressure tested, no leaks, replaced thermostat. 2 months ago, problem with overheating. Random overheating, no heat when it overheated. Pressure tested over weekend, leakage around radiator cap. cleaned out radiator cap and the problem stopped - for three weeks. Last week it overheated immediately after starting, no heat. Stopped, no coolant. Replaced coolant and dropped it off at dealer. This is getting disheartening, although, for some unknown reeason, I bought an extended warranty good through 96,000 miles. Now it's the dealer's problem. BUT - any help, thoughts, suggestions will be very welcome. My suspicious local mechanic suspects head gasket problems, but they do not appear to have been a problem with 2000 and beyond. Thanks everyone. Donn
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    There have been sporadic head gasket problems with the 2.5H4 in 2000- Legacys, so it could be the problem. Some other people in the Crew have dealt with this, so maybe they can chime in. If I remember correctly, it typically affects only one side of the engine (usually the same side for everybody). You're lucky to have the warranty -- it should be covered no problem.

    Some telltale signs would be to look for coolant in the oil (would appear white and creamy) or oil in the coolant. You may also detect the smell of coolant and/or oil coming out the exhaust. Or, there may be no signs at all!

    Craig
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Please have your vehicle's VIN and the name of the dealer that has the car. If you can't call, can you please provide that information via the "contact us" section of Subaru.com? We can check into it pronto. Please let the Rep. know that I would like to see the case. I can't handle the case directly (you'd end up waiting forever since my responsibilities in the office are a bit different). I'm sure we'll be able to help you sort through it.

    Thanks - sorry for the aggravation!

    Patti
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    While driving upstate N.Y. yesterday my brake light went on after stopping for gas & has not gone off. I did not engage the parking braqke so I
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    You are probably a little low on brake fluid and the fluid level sensor is triggering the light. The brake fluid level goes down as the pads wear. So, it may be time to check the pads as well as topping off the fluid.

    DaveM
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Donn: head gasket or the front main seal (O-ring), two most likely culprits.

    Since you have 70k miles, you may want to consider doing the timing belt, since they might be in that area and the labor will already be paid for.

    -juice
  • outback_97outback_97 Member Posts: 130
    Ebony5:

    When my alternator went out (covered by recall) the Battery and Brake dash lights illuminated at the same time. Might want to check the alternator if it's not something more obvious like low brake fluid.

    utahsteve
  • jwillman1jwillman1 Member Posts: 2
    this car ran hot 3 days after I bought it.The dealer took it in and is replacing all head gaskets.I am afraid they will not check for cracks or warpage of headas.AM I BEING
  • jwillman1jwillman1 Member Posts: 2
    Car ran hot,strong smell of anti freeze.Took car to dealer they have now had it for one week.They say it will be as good as new.I worry because I have only had the car for two weeks,car has 40,000 miles on it.SHOULD I BE CONCERNED??/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would call 800-SUBARU3 first, to get a case file opened. Ask for a history on this car.

    If there is a long service history and the dealer knew about it (they might have worked on the problem before) and failed to tell you, then shame on them, I would push for a full refund.

    They should not have sold the car, or at least warned any prospective owners if such a history exists.

    If not, open a case anyway, have SoA follow the case and possibly support the dealership with the repairs. Keep us informed and we'll try to track their progress.

    I hope they offered a loaner?

    3 days? Smells fishy, honestly. Could be a major coincidence, who knows.

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    as Juice suggested. The only addition? Please ask the Rep. to review the case with me. Our Reps. are trained and empowered to help so I'm sure we'll be able to get to the bottom of this. Sorry about the problem!

    Patti
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    Back from the Catskill Mountains and the brake light went off sometime during the trip home. Before departing I checked the brake fluid and it was full. I don't know if there is a sensor but perhaps it or the cable was affected by the cold snowy weather. In an earlier posting I mentioned that my gas guage was not functioning correctly and I am wondering if these things are somehow related. After the New Year I am scheduling an oil change and will have the mechanic check these things out. Other than that my '96 OBW handled the over 12" of snow on a dirt road OK, but I am thinking that if I had winter tires on instead of the all season Michelins I really would have enjoyed the winter wonderland even more.
  • jon1477jon1477 Member Posts: 11
    Hi my 02 legeacy gt has devolped a knocking in the right strut aera but all seems tight any ideas???
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Our 2000 Outback now has about 83,000 miles. The dealer says the the belts are going. They look fine on the outside but the inside grooves appear to be wearing. They are making some noise now - squeaking - not squealing. Is this normal at 83k?

    A bit of background. When we had the infamous pinging problem the District Service Operations Manager authorized Wentworth Subaru to replace the timing belt. They did, it didn't stop the pinging and the belt starting squeaking. It got worse over time, and the dealer replaced the timing belt tensioner, about 10k after the timing belt was replaced. Basically, they made an ooppsie when they replaced the timing belt. So... the question is do you think a bad tensioner driven about 10k would have caused the belts to go prematurely bad?

    Eric
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Correction. Actually it was about 19k between the timing belt and the replacement of the timing belt tensioner.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    Did the dealer mean fan belt or timing belt? I thought timing belts were a change item at 105k miles? I'd expect you to have many miles to go before needing another timing belt change.

    Jim
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If it's the accessory belt, I replaced mine at 30,000 miles because it showed signs of cracking and ocassionally squeaked in damp weather. It's a typical "wear" item that you should replace from time to time. I'd say 83,000 miles is a lot to get out of a belt if it is the original.

    Craig
  • subah6subah6 Member Posts: 34
    Jon1477,

    I had a knock coming from the strut tower on my new Outback H6. I checked all suspension componenets and like yours all were tight. I decided to then look under the rubber cap on top of the strut tower under the bonnet in the engine bay area. It turned out to be a loose nut on the damper. Not the three bolts that hold the suspension strut but the centre bolt which holds the damper itself. If it is that nut, you need an allen key to hold the centre threaded rod of the damper and a ring spanner to do the nut up. I hope that helps.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    A box wrench (or maybe an open end wrench) for us on this side of the pond.

    DaveM
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