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Comments
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Usually you need 3 strikes on the same component within that time frame, too.
Any how, call 800-SUBARU3 and give them the full history of your brake problems. SoA can work with your dealer, or another local dealer, and even send out tech specialists to look at your case if necessary.
What you can do is make sure the lugs are torqued properly (not more than 75 lb-ft). Also, after a hard stop, try to allow the brakes to cool with the pads not touching the rotor, since they cool at different rates.
Rotors sizes did get bigger in the next model year, IIRC, so those rotors are disporsing a lot of heat to stop all that mass.
-juice
But since I've started doing my own maintenance starting in January '03, I haven't noticed the warping as much. It's still there, but not as pronounced and sometimes not noticeable.
YMMV, ;-)
-Brian
I'm surprised your experiences with the Rep. you initially spoke with were poor. She is someone that usually is very friendly and goes over and above. I'm sure she didn't intend to sound terse. I will speak to her though.
Brakes - all I can say is to phone or e-mail in your experiences. The more information we can feed back to FHI about the quality, the better the chance we'll find a way to improve them. I know that some things go wrong due to rotations and torquing, but, overall - you seem unhappy. Please remember to remind your dealers to use the on-the-car lathe. I've seen what a better job they do.
Patti
I have a 2000 OBW as well, and I had both front and rear rotors and brake pads replaced at around 33K. Since then, no problems (knock on wood) and I'm at 51K. I remember my service rep saying Suabru had a problem with the brakes in 2000, that's why they changed companies and design for the next year.
Like Craig suggests, maybe try a different dealer.
Mark
Thing is, I REALLY like the car. Just yesterday, someone remarked "what a nice ride". I bit my tongue about the issues and thanked them. I like the company too, for the organizations they support: I'm a rabid mountain biker and big IMBA fan, even having put up one of the Subie/IMBA trail care crew at my house a few years back.
This is my 3rd new Subie, and if I can get this issue fixed, it won't be my last.
Again, thanks to all who responded, especially Patti.
Have a great weekend!
I have some concerns with the new Legacy.
The 4EAT shifts a little firmly, but I like it. I have two concerns. I drove the wagon on slippery pavement today and detected a harsh switch from front traction to the rear. In my sedan, the traction was always endetectible.
Next, Since the weather has turned cold, I have noticed a clacking sound from the engine (sounds like a wrist pin) until it reaches operating temperature.
Finally, I hear a very low frequency moan from the chassis at speeds over 50 MPH. The sedan was more quiet. This may be just the nature of wagons.
The wagon has only 700 miles on it. So, maybe these things will clear up after a few more miles of break-in.
What do you think? Should I be concerned, or am I nit picking?
-Jim
Indeed, your 5 speed had a viscous coupling. Power is 50/50 until one axle slips, that thickens the fluid in the center VC and locks them together. But it's smooth because both axles are already moving and both already get some power.
The auto sends most power to the front axle, you're feeling more clutches engaging to send more power to the rear. This transition is more abrupt, because you might be going from 90/10 to 40/60 (just an example) all of the sudden.
Still, most people don't notice.
Wagons are louder because you have 2 more windows, and a bigger resonance chamber.
Still, check your tires, make sure pressures are up and they're worn evenly. Next oil change ask them to inspect the wheel bearings, which could be making that moan. Even though your Legacy has the new wheel bearings that hardly ever fail, it would actually be the first case I'd seen.
-juice
I agree with Juice, check all your tires to make sure they are inflated properly, and also maybe get the balanced checked. My wagon is not super quiet, but I don't recall any moans!! I do get a low volume high-pitched whine at high speed (>70mph) which is normal - it's pinion gears or something.
Regarding the clacking sound, check your oil to be on the safe side, but I'd say it's normal cold engine behavior. It could also be something that will go away as the engine breaks in.
Craig
A question to anyone else who has had this problem: Did you have an alternator failure back a few years ago that caused your car to over heat? I did. I took it to the dealer and got it fixed. Then a few weeks later I got a refund for the cost and a letter stating if I accept the refund I waive any right to make claims related to the repair. I thought it was odd, but I took the money. Since then the dealership has been sold, and all my service records on the dealers computer system were mysteriously lost in the transaction. They have everyone's service records... except mine... Hmmm. Now this gunk shows up. I am the original owner and have never put sealant in the radiator. I suspect that they knew the alternator problem caused overheating that cracked the head gasket, sealed it and never told me. If this sounds familiar I'd be interested to hear about it.
Thanks,
luke46
Craig
If anybody can provide some answers to my questions below regarding my 02 Outback Limited w/manual transmission, I will really appreciate it.
1- I use Mobil 1 exclusively but I have a hard time getting a good reading from the dip stick. I do my own oil changes and I always refill to approx 4.2 quarts of oil, including a Purolator oil filter. After I drive the car for a few days, I pull out the dipstick to check it. If the car has been sitting on a flat surface, the dipstick shows approx 1/2 inch of oil (1/2 inch from the tip/bottom of the diptsick). Oil covers the whole tip of the dipstick. This is before wiping it clean.
After I wipe it clean, I re-insert the dipstick all the way in and pull it out to check on it. Now the dipstick shows oil ONLY on the edges, a little less than before, less than 1/2 inch. I am not sure how to interpret this reading.
The car seems to run fine, no overheating/good temperature, no warning lights, ok mileage, etc.
When I change the oil, the catch pan has at least 4 qts of used oil.
Is anybody else having a hard time reading their dipsticks? Or is this dipstick not very well engineered or positioned?
Could I be really low on oil even though it doesn't 'feel' like it? Any input, suggestions?
2- The famous vent issues. I read from another poster about the not being able to direct the flow of air completely from defrost, upper body or feet. There is always residual air coming out from the other vents. Is there a fix for this?
3- My battery is showing some traces of fluid leakage on the outside. There are white sediment trails on the sides of the battery. Is the battery leaking or cracked? Are batteries cover under the 3/36 warranty?
4- I am also experiencing the smudge areas on the windshield visible only when the wipers are wet and make a pass. I did not notice this problem before.
Parts replaced previously under warranty:
1- Clutch has been replaced with the 'improved' one. No more buckling.
2- Left, exterior side mirror, gusset has been replaced. No more annoying and excessive wind noises while driving
My driving style and habits are pretty sedate. No burning rubber or jack rabbit starts.
Just for additional info. This is my second Subaru. Still have my first one, an 88 GL Wagon with the original clutch, engine, manual tranny. No problems aside from the regular maintenance issues.
Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions,
Eug
Park the car in the garage for the night after whatever driving you do - preferably while the engine's hot. Remove the dipstick and lay it on the radiator after cleaning (on paper towel). Leave hood up as absolute way of not forgetting. In the morning, you will have a single opportunity to check the oil by inserting it and seating it all the way, then pulling it out. The action of pulling it out drags oil up the dipstick tube that then messes up future readings until may hours of slow flow clear the tube again.
Works for me. I usually do it the day after I change it with 4.2qts and it comes out right.
IdahoDoug
Nevertheless, if you're getting the right amount out on your oil drains, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Jon
I know the rotors on the Outback have been a bone of contention for most of you.
I recently had all 4 replaced, the 3th set on the front, and 2nd for the rear.
This time, I ordered the mechanic to hand tighten them with a torque wrench. (Using the impact wrench grossly over-tightens them and holds the rotors in a bent position which they hold after repeated heating.) Natrually, it is the rookies that they stick on brake jobs, and to save time, they use the impact wrench.
This time, they indicated on the service order (for the first time) that the wheels had been torqued to 65 foot-lbs.
My commute takes me through the city (small city, but it is a city) then on to the highway. At high speeds, the rotors are as smooth as can be. I have lightened up slightly on how hard I use the brakes, but I am sure that hand-tightening the wheel nuts has made a difference.
Before people get fed up with warped rotors and threaten not to buy another Subaru, have the dealers replace the rotors and hand-tighten the nuts. It will make a difference.
Ditto with the clutch, no problem.
The seller seems like a nice, believable, honest guy. Perhaps this Outback is one that simply did not have any of thse problems, perhaps he is not as honest as I think.
andrewk: my '98 Forester has the original clutch, original brake discs and drums, original brake pads and shoes, even, at 58k miles. It's definitely possible.
-juice
Your explanations of the 4EAT front/rear torque switching make sense. I feel better about that.
The sound complaint I now notice at speeds as low as 40 MPH and it really is more of a rumble than a moan. I will recheck my tire pressure. What is really curious is sometimes the noise is present some times it is not. This morning I noticed it went away after making a left turn. The noise is not coming from crossbars, because I don't have any. I was wondering if the rails running front to back could be causing some wind turbulence.
Juice, now that you mention it, the sound could be a wheel bearing problem, or maybe CV joints that are binding. I'll have my Subaru dealer look into it.
The engine clack is still bothering me. I would have taken it in earlier, but it is only present when the engine is cold. When fully warmed up, the only sounds are the expected clicking from fuel injectors and valves.
Again, you comments are greatly appreciated.
- Jim
I recently traded in my '00 Outback for an '03. My '00 Outback was a five-speed with 70K on it, with the original clutch, rotors and brake pads. I never had any problems out of them.
Are the brake pads original? Are they in good shape? The original brakes should be 50-70% worn by about 46K miles, so that would tell you something.
Craig
Jim
Manuals will be in neutral. Also, more people use engine braking with manuals.
-juice
Craig
They even gave me an '03 limited as a loaner...doesn't take much to keep the (non-paying) customer happy ;-)
Matt
Thanks!
Brian
I don't think it applies in my case. The tires have only 1200 miles on them... Not enough miles to develop cupping or feathering.
But I appreciate the advice just the same.
-Jim
Anyone have any comments on which tire is better -Potenzas or Continentals? The Continentals seem to be quiet (the thumping stopped) and appear to have a good grip on both dry pavement and in the snow.
DougM
Some telltale signs would be to look for coolant in the oil (would appear white and creamy) or oil in the coolant. You may also detect the smell of coolant and/or oil coming out the exhaust. Or, there may be no signs at all!
Craig
Thanks - sorry for the aggravation!
Patti
DaveM
Since you have 70k miles, you may want to consider doing the timing belt, since they might be in that area and the labor will already be paid for.
-juice
When my alternator went out (covered by recall) the Battery and Brake dash lights illuminated at the same time. Might want to check the alternator if it's not something more obvious like low brake fluid.
utahsteve
If there is a long service history and the dealer knew about it (they might have worked on the problem before) and failed to tell you, then shame on them, I would push for a full refund.
They should not have sold the car, or at least warned any prospective owners if such a history exists.
If not, open a case anyway, have SoA follow the case and possibly support the dealership with the repairs. Keep us informed and we'll try to track their progress.
I hope they offered a loaner?
3 days? Smells fishy, honestly. Could be a major coincidence, who knows.
-juice
Patti
A bit of background. When we had the infamous pinging problem the District Service Operations Manager authorized Wentworth Subaru to replace the timing belt. They did, it didn't stop the pinging and the belt starting squeaking. It got worse over time, and the dealer replaced the timing belt tensioner, about 10k after the timing belt was replaced. Basically, they made an ooppsie when they replaced the timing belt. So... the question is do you think a bad tensioner driven about 10k would have caused the belts to go prematurely bad?
Eric
Jim
Craig
I had a knock coming from the strut tower on my new Outback H6. I checked all suspension componenets and like yours all were tight. I decided to then look under the rubber cap on top of the strut tower under the bonnet in the engine bay area. It turned out to be a loose nut on the damper. Not the three bolts that hold the suspension strut but the centre bolt which holds the damper itself. If it is that nut, you need an allen key to hold the centre threaded rod of the damper and a ring spanner to do the nut up. I hope that helps.
DaveM