Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

bat1161

Re: post#2105 otis123 Oct 27, 2003 1:18pm
Ralph-
Just catching up here, so sorry for the delay.

As someone who drove as a livery driver on the weekends for 10 years in Brooklyn, I can say it is definitely educational, as well as fun. The reason I stopped is because it was not profitable anymore; drive for 12-13 hours, spend $20 on gas, and come home with $40-45. I like to drive, but I've found after stopping that I like sleeping later even better:-) I still have the license though, you never know.

Mark

otis123

Mark,
I used to have a NYS chauffeur's driver license in college. I worked a couple summers for an old hotel - Minnewaska Mountain House outside of New Paltz, NY. I'd drive old (= old) wealthy (= stinking rich) widows from the Upper West & East Sides "up to the country" for their summer vacations.

The car was an old, gigantic black caddie limo that was 2 car lengths long. It was fun fighting (and pushing aside) the NYC taxis as I transversed from one side of Manhattan to the other. The widows would [non-permissible content removed] and complain, fall asleep on the way up and then tip me $40. (1980 $). It was fun and good summer job money...

I like to drive. I wouldn't mind doing airport limo driving when I retire - but I would never pick up passengers from the street. Dangerous way to live...

[Sorry this isn't a problem or a solution.]

Ralph

gearhead4

There is no question that synthetic oil outperforms conventional oils, but the cost is usually four times higher. I was an Amsoil dealer until I found that I could puchase Mobil 1 at a retail store for less than my wholesale cost of Amsoil. Both oils are more stable than "dino" oil. At high temperatures they have a higher shear strength (less likely for metal to metal contact) and will not break down as easily. At cold temperatures, synthetic flows more easily.
That being said, a brand name oil that meets the API specifications will do an adequate job. I log every tankful of fuel I put in my vehicles and find no MPG difference between Mobil 1 5W30 and Quaker State 5W30. In theory, the synthetics should extend the oil change interval, bu no automobile manufacturer will acknowlegde this, so if a warranty claim comes up, you need records of the oil changes at the manufacturer recommended intervals.
I love my Subaru, but feel the Quaker State will do the job for 25% on the cost of Mobil 1.On the other hand, if you want nothing but the best, go with a 100% synthetic. (don't bother with the "Synthetic blends", they offer almost no advantage.

Jim

ateixeira

Ralph: maybe your "problem" is noone makes an AWD limo!

-juice

bat1161

Juice- A person can always drive as a "private", in their own car. That could work if we get another winter like last. When it snows heavily, the car service closes - but not if you're in a Subaru!

Ralph- I didn't do street pickups, it was only radio dispatched. I'm not that nuts (I think).

Mark

paisan

you hang with us, that's pretty NUTS in itself! On a side note, I'm booking the hotels this week or next and we are looking at a 4pm kickoff party in Long Island for the 48hrs.

-mike

bat1161

Mike- Sounds good. I haven't been able to check the "other" site. We're restricted here at work. I'll check tonight or tomorrow. Did you do a sign up sheet yet?

Mark

paisan

Not yet, but Jay is working on the stuff with MADD, waiting to get approval to use their logo. I will be making the webpage shortly for the signup, etc.

-mike

ateixeira

mike - move this to Events, tell us more about it. How far south will you get?

-juice

gtlimitedguy

I have had numerous problems with both of these issues on my '02 GT Limited. I had the rotors turned at about 22K, replaced them at 26K, and turned them and replaced the shot front pads at 32K. I hope these hold out....I am at 34K now...warranty about to expire! The wind noise is an ongoing problem....it has been fixed at least 5 times and just comes back in a month. I am sorry...but for a $27K car...you should not have to cycle your window up and down each time you get in and out! I can't believe that SOA has not found a solution to this problem! My '97 GT never had this problem in 48K...nor anything with the brakes!

Last weekend I had a minor little accident in the car...smacked into a dead deer in the middle of the road. The idiots that hit it never pulled it off the road...and drove about a mile down the road until their '00 Jetta stopped. Totaled their car! Only damage to my car is a broken plastic shield under the engine. The dealer (Calkins Subaru in Lewistown, PA) checked it out and suggested that I have the alignment checked because they could tell that it smacked the rear control arms pretty hard. Insurance is going to count it as a comprehensive claim...so at least I only have to pay $100.

Learned something today though...be careful loading up the trunk! I went to get some rock salt for the church...but 400 lbs in the trunk. The car was weighed down...but didn't seem too bad. However...when I started driving...the steering was SCARY! Very light...felt like I could loose control at any time. Needless to say...I unloaded it ASAP!

c_hunter

Yeah, I remember the days of getting load-induced power steering in old pickup trucks.....

With 400 lbs, I'm surprised the load floor didn't cave in! That's probably the weakest part.

Craig

idahodoug

Sorry, been busy with a variety of projects.

Well, I still cannot see how there would be pressure from one side causing fluid to come out the other since they're both vented cavities. If I had the diagram you mention more might come to me - feel free to scan it and send it to me offline.

Do they feel there's fluid mixing going on? Or is it just that some gear oil is getting forced out (which I can't agree with unless other fluid is being forced in - thus my question about the relative levels of each)?

IdahoDoug

ebony5

The gas gauge on my '96 Outback AT Wagon is not working;it stays on "E". I went away for about a week and when I returned it was not functioning(fine when I left). What causes this,how much should it cost to remedy the situation and could it be indicative of other failings that I should watch out for. I just filled up, tightened the gas cap and still the problem persists

ateixeira

The new GT is heavier than your old one. They up-sized the brake rotors later on, probably due to the extra weight.

Interestingly, the next Legacy is supposed to be a lot lighter. I bet it has fewer brake issues.

They can't fix the wind leak? Ask them to change the seals.

ebony5: probably a faulty sender. I think it's under the rear seat.

Depending on the value of the car, I might just rely on the odometer, zero it out after each fill up. It's more accurate anyway. Mine reads "E" even with 4 gallons left over some times.

-juice

mayfair

I experienced ABS engaging for the first time yesterday. I am glad I have been reading about it or I would have been so scared.

Anyway, I smelled something burned right after the braking and it lingered for a while. Is this normal? Or is it something that needs to be looked into?

Thank you everyone for your help.

paisan

Probably your pads overheating

-mike

ateixeira

Your pads are glazed like a donut.

Just kidding, it's normal. I saw Motorweek test a Pathfinder Armada and that heavy beast took so much energy to stop that the brakes were visibly smoking.

-juice

waynekacz

@135k, I had the 98 Legacy Outback LF axle replaced. After that the vehicle would vibtate when in D while stopped at traffic signals or stop signs. I could feel the vibration/pulse through the brake pedal and steering column. The engine sound also changed but the tach didn't move. I had this axle replaced. same vibrations. @ 145K I had the locally rebuilt axle replaced with a Subaru rebuilt axle. same vibrations. If I shift from D to N, the vibration stops until I shift back to D. If I go from D to P the vibration remains. Turning the steering wheel 1/4 turn R will make the vibration worse, 1/4 turn L and it reduces the amount of vibration

subaru_team

dealer saying?

Patti

c_hunter

It's probably a broken or damaged engine mount, transmission mount, or sub-frame mount. I'm guessing it's unrelated to the half-shaft, but caused during that first repair.

Craig

mayfair

Thanks for the answers. I guess I don't have to lose sleep over it then.
Will be more gentle with the brake next time.

otis123

I reported a rear rotor scraping noise when I turned the wheel left at parking lot speeds 2 weeks ago. 2001 LLBean w/ 51K miles.

Ended up being the wear indicator on the rear brake pad assembly. Installed new rear pads / turned rotors (BTW Patti, off the car, since their on-car lathe has been broken for quite some time - "needs $3K repair and we think the off-car lathe is better."

For comparison purposes....with oil change/lube came to $280. - No. NYC suburban dealer - Curry Subaru.

Also, as someone reported earlier, jambed rear sunroof cover DOES require headliner removal! ARRGG! Crappy design... I'm going to try from the top if it ever stops raining around here...

Thanks,

Ralph

nygreg

Are you happy with Curry? I might try a different dealer next time.

Greg

subaru_team

about the lathe since it's a required tool. Do you mind if I look into that and keep you out of it?

Call us about not getting the coupons. We can check into why. It is a dealer program, so I'm not sure why they didn't check into it for you. Probably someone unfamiliar with how it works.

Anyway, call 1-800-SUBARU3 and we can check into it for you. I'm glad it was just the wear indicators on the pads.

Patti

ateixeira

The only reason they say it's better is because it's cheaper to use the one they have rather than fixing the one they should use. Patti will bust 'em. ;-)

-juice

otis123

Patti,
They are an excellent service department - and sales department. Please leave me out - although they are going to know it's me because I spoke to two mechanics about it Wed. night. If you could wait a couple weeks - or act like it is a routine check - that would be good. I'd hate to sour my relationship with them - especially because I'm thinking about getting another H6 (2005) Outback - to replace my Accord. Having a good working relationship with this dealership is key to my next purchase. They are also open Wed. nights and 1 mile from my house - can't beat it... Thanks.

Greg,

I did a bozo no-no yesterday by mentioning the salesman's name in my post...oops. Here it is minus the name...

Very happy. With the purchase and service.

Last night I asked why I never get coupons from them. They stated that they come directly from Subaru? I've never gotten any - I get "Drive", though. And I'm signed up at Subaru.com, although I hardly use it. Anyway they gave me 10% off my bill (they did it last time I had a high bill at my 30K service).

Straight-shooters.......so far.... :-)

Oh, also referred someone to my salesman from 3 years ago - NYFD member - last week. He purchased a WRX (mid-life crisis) and told me they are going to give me a $50. gift certificate. Haven't gotten it yet (could have used it!).

Ralph

subaru_team

and check on things next month some time. I won't be asking that anyone break their chops. It's just important that they have the tools to properly service customers vehicles. We'd be more likely to help them get it fixed vs. making their lives miserable.

No worry though. I'll wait.

Have a great weekend!

Patti

gm2366

hi had , new to this board. Having an overheating problem with my 2.5ltr outback.just had the water pump replaced when i noticed it leaking. Now car overheats after 15min of highway driving . around town seems fine. Fans are working,and thermostat replaced. Mechanic can't figure it out had car 3 days now.anyone else experience this ? and what was the cause? thanks in advance Gary

lfdal

Two things I've seen do it - especially after the system's been worked on - first is an air block in the cooling system. That ended up wiping out my entire 3.8L Mercury engine.

Second would be a bad thermostat - either installed wrong or just N/G.

I don't know if the 2.5 has a special bleed proecedure for purging air after the system's been worked on.

Anyone else have a clue?

Larry

dcm61

There is a bleeder screw on the top passenger side of the radiator. It has a square head and also accepts a phillips screwdriver. I think the owener's manual explains the procedure for bleeding the cooling system.

DaveM

gm2366

thxs for the reply, I suspected the air block also and had him purge the system. Ive asked him to replace the thermostat again . he sees what he thinks is sealant{ie bars leak or something} in the coolant bottle.Maybe from the previous owner, I don't know. Anyone else , thxs Gary

subaru_team

maybe share the mileage here so I can advise you correctly. If it's in a dealership, we can try to help, but if it is at an independent repair facility, there's not much I can do. Let us know?

Patti

dcm61

Are you sure it's not oil in the coolant bottle. I noticed oil in the coolant bottle of my '96 OBW at around 120k miles. I suspect that it was a blown head gasket but I traded the car at 128k before persuing any repairs. Also, the coolant was not flowing back into the radiator as the car cooled down. I replaced the radiator cap but that didn't fix the flow problem.

DaveM

zman3

Sounds like your attacking the problem in a logical manner. Start cheap and work your way up. I too would think air block, thermostat, radiator cap. If those don't fix it my guess would be a bad head gasket. My 98 needed the head gaskets replaced. Here were my symptoms. It would overheat after freeway driving, say on my way to work. It would be fine while moving, but when I came to a stop, say at the end of a freeway ramp, the temp would shoot up. As soon as I started moving again everything would be fine. This happened intermittently for a month or so until it would start overheating randomly and then just as quickly start cooling down again. Fortunately I always kept my eye on the temp gauge and it never really overheated to the point of steaming. The dealer did a check for hydrocarbons in the coolant and determined that it was a blown head gasket. The tech commented afterwards that there were streaks on the gasket that were barely visible. He was surprised that there wasn't a greater mark on the gasket where the gasses were leaking. Fortunately mine was under the 5yr/60K warranty so it did not cost me a penny. I don't know how much the repair would have been.

Karl

paisan

Warm up the car to "operating temp" Pop the hood, and see if the radiator and hoses are still cold. If they are cold, you have a bubble. We did 10-30K services one weekend, and one of them had a bad airbubble. The radiator and hoses were ice cold, yet the engine temp was in the middle.

-mike

ateixeira

Nice tip, mike, thanks for sharing.

-juice

otis123

Patti,

Thanks for holding off a couple weeks. They obviously don't want to spend the $. I had the front rotors turned on our LLBean at 10K in the Fall of 2001 and it was broken back then...

BTW, the senior Subaru mechanic there [Darin] is really, really good - takes the time to explain things and does the job right (and is recognized - he has several Subaru plaques/awards). He is the main reason I'm holding off replacing our Accord right now - waiting until we can properly assess the 2005 Outback H6 sedan (features, etc.) this spring.

Ralph

slickdog

It's very possible that there is some pour-in type cooling system sealant in your overflow bottle, because it goes everywhere and settles in places where there isn't a consistently heavy coolant flow.

I'd be a bit suspicious if that type of thing has been used in your vehicle, because it sometimes is a last ditch effort for people trying to avoid an expensive head or intake manifold gasket job (it really just delays the inevitable in that case). I've also heard used car dealers sometimes use the stuff to temporarily hide coolant leaks that would be expensive to fix.

I'm also wondering if it's possible for the sealant to settle in the wrong places and restrict coolant flow enough to cause problems. I have seen residue from it on thermostats and other cooling system components, but there doesn't usually seem to be a large quantity in any single location.

darandall

Try a new radiator cap. My 2000 wagon had an awful intermittent overheating problem. Also, when the heat was on, the air came out cold when the car overheating. the dealer did an over the weekend pressure test and there were some little dribble marks around the cap. Try that - it's cheap to replace. Good luck. Donn

subaru_team

I know that we've been testing some of those sealants with our vehicles with good results. From what I've heard (and seen in some of our test vehicles)the results are good. GM has been using sealants in their high-end models for a few years with good results. I hear that it only sticks where there is a leak w/in the cooling system and prevents headgasket (and subsequent head)failures w/o any negatives, or future failures. Just what I'm hearing of course. This isn't an "official" SOA response.

Patti

bholmes3

2001 LL Bean Bean Outback @ 23,000 miles rotors had to be resurfaced, less than 2 weeks ago. Now the symptoms are back including shaky steering wheel at 70 mph on freeway! Can it be something else other than rotors?

c_hunter

I bet they overtorqued your lugs, it will cause the rotors to warp after a period of time. Bring it back to the dealer, let them handle it. They may need to install new rotors this time, since you can only resurface them once or twice.

Craig

slickdog

Patti, are those sealants something that service departments would use, sell at the parts counters, or both? I'd be more likely to use something like that in a pinch if the manufacturer had tested it in their vehicles and made some valid claims about it's effectiveness.

It's a great idea to offer something that one simply pours into the cooling system to quickly fix leaks in tough places, and possibly avoid costly engine repairs. Unfortunately, I've seen the store bought sealants fail to live up to their claims enough times that I just don't have much confidence in them.

paisan

I've used the storebought pellets and they worked great on several cars.

-mike

johnd15

15,000 miles ago the front left coil spring broke on our 96 Legacy while I was driving down a bumpy dirt road. Subaru replaced it along with shocks and a damaged tire. Not long after we noticed some vibration in the front end (flet through steering wheel) at highway speeds. I've just noticed that the inside edge of the front tires are worn down to the steel belt, while the outside edge shows little wear. The dealer claims the front end is out of alignment. I'm wondering if the coil spring incident could have screwed up the front end. Any thoughts? What else could lead to abnormal tire wear where just the inside edge wears down?

ratbert1

I'm back. If you remember, I took my 2002 OB to the dealer and had them check engine "chatter". They tightened the valve tensioner belt and it seemed better. Maybe that was the placebo effect? Last night it got down to 9 degrees and when I started it up, the chatter seemed more like a rattle.It down seem very consistent in that it gets louder when it gets colder and eventually stops when the car is at full temp. But it still makes the noise when the temp gauge is in the middle, but the heat isn't quite hot yet. Do you follow? I have time off from work the last 2 weeks of dec, so I may take it back, but before then I will have to change the oil (28k). Would synthetic fix this? I've checked the oil several times and it is ok. Curious though, if I follow the recommended amount of oil for a change, it seems to be overfull. I drain a little so that it is just under the upper tick mark on the dipstick.

If you recall, the service people at my dealer were very nice and very helpful, but it seems that they may have missed my problem?

ateixeira

john: if you drove on that broken spring for a while before you noticed it, I'd say yes.

My Miata's valves clatter like crazy when it's cold, but it goes away gradually as it warms up. Oil might help, but it hasn't caused any problems for me in about 3 years owning it (it's a '93).

-juice

slickdog

I've not heard much about the pellets, just the powder although it's probably just the same stuff in different form. I've seen the powder work before, but I've also seen it fail, and I've also seen a couple cooling systems that it made a mess of (saw it all over a thermostat once). Could be the result of improper use or attempts to seal leaks that were too large I suppose. Personally, I'd be more comfortable fixing a leak the hard way and knowing that it probably wouldn't return.

canyuntrash

with Subaru brakes and the car in general. My 02 Bean has had the brakes serviced 4 times in 43,000 miles. The most recent time, frt. rotors resurfaced (yep, warped again) and pads replaced.
Granted, first three times done under warranty at no cost to me but time. Dealer replaced rear rotors because he stated they were defective, but why not the fronts?
Now at 47,000 front rotors showing signs of warpage (shudder, wheel wobble on stopping, just like all the times b4).
And the wind whistles... they just keep coming back like a bad habit. Dealer says it's inherent in framelss window design, yet my '98 OB never had the problem.
Of course, called SOA, got terse woman who, after I explained my concerns, asked "well, what do you want us to do?" How about give me a set of brakes that last longer then 10,000 miles? She said "we'll et back to you". Yeah right, 2 months later and nary a word.
Needless to say, "lemon law" is brought up in conversations with friends, but not sure I want to persue that route. I suppose it's an option, but I'd rather just get this situation squared away without lawyers. I'm thinking of having the brakes checked by an independent who will let me in his shop and show me the problem, then go from there.
Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks!

c_hunter

I agree that this is an issue with the Outback -- both my 2000 base model and my 2002 LL Bean needed to have the brakes resurfaced in the first 10000 miles. With the 2000 car, they seemed to be warped from the factory. I hear similar stories from other people. I really hope Subaru is trying to deal with this somehow.

I guess the only thing I will say is that the dealer could be part of the problem. If they fix your rotors and then the problem comes back, it could be that they are overtorqueing your lugs. That's a sure way to warp the rotors on any car. I know my dealer must use a wallop to torque my lugs, because I can barely get them off. Whenever possible, I always re-torque the wheels myself after any service (they usually pull a wheel or two off for state inspections). The dealer should know better, but I think it's a combination of lazy techs and service managers that just don't know any better.

In the case of both of my cars, the brakes were fine after the initial resurfacing, and we've got over 50,000 miles on the 00 car and over 30,000 on the 02 car.

Craig