I'm trying to decide which color combination is the nicest from some of the secondary colors (Nordic Green, Winning Blue, Lightning Yellow). I've played with the "Color selector" and "Build & Order" options on the RX-8 site. However, aside from yellow, I haven't seen the blue or green in "real" photos. I did see 1 blue one on the rotarynews.com site but I wasn't sure it looked like the blue from the RX-8 site (could have been a special test color).
Question 1: Would anyone have links to photos that show the actual car in those colors?
Also, what are people's opinions regarding resale for cars with multiple color combinations (i.e. Titanium Gray w/ Chapparal leather, etc.)? I talked to a dealer and he said "the general rule is that a car with 2 colors (for instance, a red car w/ red/black interior) is fine but a car with 3 colors (like the example above) will usually sit. Of course, someone may just come into the dealer and jump on it because they love it, but generally speaking those are harder to re-sell (you may have to swallow an extra $500-$1500 at resale time). The "safest" triple combo is silver w/ red/black leather (like the S2000)."
I see a lot of discussion about what market this car is trying to hit. I'll tell you right now: if they are looking to target 27 year old single males who drive Grand Prix GTPs looking for something a sportier that can still seat four decently, they have scored a bullseye. I want this car!
I don't like anything that has been done with the GTP in the last three years (or the new design coming up). I think all the BMWs, Audis, VWs, and Nissan Maxima and Altima are a little plain. The 350Z is a two-seater. I haven't been trading in because I basically couldn't find a car I liked...now I have.
Somewhat off-topic: I've looked at the Mazda Canada site and the car is selling significantly cheaper over there. Does anyone know how easy it is to jump the border and buy a car? What fees are involved with bringing it back?
I was at Borders yesterday and saw the recent Car magazine (UK). They have a comparison between the 350Z and RX-8. Suffice to say they drew no strong conclusions. They did, however, note the following:
1) The 350Z felt more raw and powerful 2) The RX-8 was more like a BMW 3-Series 3) These two cars are extremely different but both enjoyable in their own ways.
Would be curious as to whethers saw the article and their thoughts.
Is Mazda expecting 10, 15, or 20k of the RX-8's to be produced?
Based on that, how common will the car be on the street by its 2nd production year?
Also, Big H, are you considering waiting for the 2nd prod year due to possible mech issues are you probably going to dive in?
I think I like that Winning Blue color the best - sense is that Nordic Green will be a little sedate for this type of vehicle. Titanium Gray is pretty nice as well w/ red/chap leather - gives it a real modern look.
I spoke to several dealers here in Dallas and they said customers w/ deposits are guaranteed drives prior to making their decisions. Deposits are refundable if it's for a car that they're expecting in allocation anyways. However, if it's a car that is an unusual combination (nordic green w/ chap leather), the deposit is non-refundable. On average each dealer is getting about 3-6 per month. First delivery month is June. They said they have not decided what their position is regarding walk-in customers taking a drive yet. Guess it will be up to the marketplace!
If you want a drive but don't want to put down a deposit, I would get to know a new car sales mgr and let him know you are a serious buyer but are hesitant to plop down $ now. I have "opened the lines of communication" with several here and I don't have a deposit yet.
I would LIKE to get one of these babies hopefully by its 2nd production year (2005?), but, All things considered, I'm not too certain if I will have enough cash hanging around to buy one. If I decide to buy a place to live (I rent right now, it's sucking my wallet clean!) in the near future, I will have to put just about all of my income into that, and the car will have to wait....
Rest assured there are many things that can and will change/affect our lives over the next few years. Neither of us may end up buying the RX-8 or mabe we'll choose some other model (perhaps an RX-8 derivative). Oftentimes I think most of the fun is in the anticipation of buying - the looking around, test driving, reading, comparing, dreaming, and likewise. I bought a home less than a year ago (I used to work for Enron in Houston but relocated to Dallas) and spent about 6 months looking. Homes can be just as interesting. The main difference is that there are an infinite number of "models" out there. Take your time. The RX-8 will only get cheaper while you look for the home.
BTW agree that pinstripes ruin the intended looks of a car!
in the newest issue (April '03), they did a comparison test of 4-SEAT sports-oriented vehicles. They picked a Mustang SVT Cobra, an Infiniti G35 Coupe, and the RX-8 for comparison.
Cars with low torque don't launch well (at least in terms of a good hole-shot) unless you drop the clutch near the power peak, ala S2000.
The RX-8 was not designed to be a drag car, obviously. A better indication of its real abilities would be a measurement of the speed it carries through turns (which is important when you have low torque).
The problem with curve-hugging low-torque cars is that you need more hairpin turns than straightaways in order to come out ahead. Since hairpin turns tend to be short and require long straightaways to string them together, I'm beginning to feel that these cars are disadvantaged in sanctioned racing other than autocrossing. It's true that the RX-8 has an amazing lateral grip and fine handling dynamics, according to that article, but it still couldn't keep up with the Z and Cobra on a road coarse.
This has been the trend for some time. Take a look at Edmunds' 2000 sport coupe comparo. Edmunds brought the cream of the crop of import coupes to do battle--RSX-S, Celica, Prelude, etc., and they all put up marvelous track times. Edmunds also brought along two similarly priced domestic V8 muscle cars for kicks, and those cars utterly destroyed the imports on a track. And no, it wasn't just drag racing. Unless one is driving 500 laps in a really tight circle (think Nascar but a 100 foot diameter loop) torque and horsepower still count for something.
So if the RX-8 is to be judged, it should be judged on its feel, its occasional grip on curves, its quality, its utility and its style. It shouldn't be judged on its track times or 0-60 times; it may not have the muscle to win the former and trying to win the latter will only result in a wrecked transmission.
The thing with the RX-8 is that it's sooo close to being a great sports car. Take out the rear seats and rear doors and maybe save 200 pounds. Increase the displacement of the engine slightly and get, say, 280 HP and 180 ft/lbs of torque -- at a cost of maybe 50 lbs. Then you have a 2800-pound two-seater with great styling that can probably do 0-60 in the low 5's. Zoom zoom zoom.
That's not to say that Mazda is wrong to try the 4-door sports car concept, but I'm really hoping that a lighter, 2-door version comes out soon.
Well, it's all but guaranteed that a convertible version is on its way. And as we know from the example of the Porsche 911, a coupe designed from the ground up for convertible applications sometimes can be heavier than its convertible version, so the RX-8 convertible could well be the RX-7 that some are waiting for.
If you go on kazaa or something, you can download Japanese TV clips of top-end Japanese sports car reviews and races. Interestingly, in every one of those, the current RX-7 (still made in Japan) convincing wins every track trace, and it does so over the very best that Japan has to offer--NSX Type 0, Skyline GT-R, EVO7, etc.
Let them buy it. Maybe they'll put enough money in Mazda's pocket so the sports car gals/guys will have a real sports car to enjoy! Do I hear a turbo charged, 2 seater RX-8 (or what ever they'd call it), with a bit more torque!?
According to Mazda (and they oughta know), the RX-8 was not intended to be a 'replacement' for the RX-7. Hopefully, this car's engine and chassis will serve as the basis for a variety of models.
In the 4-door configuration, it's a way for the Renesis to gain attention and acceptance in the marketplace, which will pave the way for the success of a more overtly sports-minded model.
It's intellectually dishonest to beat up the RX-8 for not being a "great sports car" when that was never the goal of the company that built it.
I think everyone realizes that the RX-8 wasn't intended to be a hardcore sports car in the way that the 350Z was designed. But I also think some drivers are unsatisfied with the weight profile of the Z and are impatient for a lighter, more tossable, new RX-7 to be released...
Re: building the RX8 first - I agree. Mazda is married to the rotary like Suburu is married to AWD. To that end, they HAVE to move the rotary to a wider market. The previous RX7 (and, I would assume, future version) had too small of a target audience for the rotary to be accepted my mainstream buyers. But they can't just put the rotary in their bread'n'butter Protege or new 6 since buyers of these cars would tend to be more conservative. The new 6 is wild enough to attract some typical Camaccord customers seeking some thrills but it would have no chance seeking those buyers if it had a rotary.......at least not yet.
But making the rotary available in a 4-seat coupe opens up a much wider audience than a pure 2-seater. If the new Renesis can finally put to rest all of the perceived 'reliability' issues with rotaries, the RX8 may be the harbinger of a whole slew of new offerings.
There's a great write-up on the RX-8 in the April issue of Automobile mag. They compare it to the 330i and the 350Z. According to the article, the RX-8 is a real sports car, but not in the same way that the 350Z is. Also, the RX-8 is an legitimate 4-passenger sedan, but not in the same way as the 330i.
They complained about the lack of torque (duh), but quickly added that the engine is more tractable around town than the S2000's because of its eagerness to rev. This car is the real deal, folks.
it's a nation-wide autocrossing tour, using spec'd Mazda6's as competition cars. $39 gives you 4 laps of seat time around the course, and all the other activities at the event.
but what does this have to do with RX-8? Well according to the site's FAQ, the RX-8 will be shown at each and every Rev It Up event location!!!!
so if you haven't seen it, go sign up and check it out after you autocrossed the Mazda6!
For real-world use, 7.5 is still pretty damn quick. Certainly more than most people will ever use.
I always got a chuckle about how much money some folks would spend on a car like a Firebird that was already overpowered to get that extra .2 off the 0-60, when they probably couldn't control the car anyway.
last time I checked. Would you feel better if I changed that to "plenty for the majority of drivers the majority of the time, and still faster than most vehicles"?
IMO, Most people are afraid to use the full potential of their cars (acceleration or handling). I recall reading in one of the car magazines about a test on perceived handling limits, and the average driver thought they were about at the limit at about .4 gs or so (guessing at the number, but way under the cars limit, since even a Camry can pull .76-,8 these days).
I don't have many chances to do a full bore standing start acceleration run, but do get to excercise my Maxima in the mid range every so often (merging or passing), and even that car will move quick without having to go over 4K, and once in a while 5K.
If you need more than 7.5 to get around, then get a different car
last time I checked. Would you feel better if I changed that to "plenty for the majority of drivers the majority of the time, and still faster than most vehicles"?
The problem with that is...thats not faster than most vehicles being built today. 7.5 is a poor accleration number to 60mph IMO by today's standards. Especially considering since honda accords, nissan maxima's/altima's, dodge neon turbo's, the list goes on would have an absolute field day against an RX8 in terms of rolling starts. Then again...An RX8 owner (or leaser), could make a fool of himself revving his engine to 8k rpm and holding it there while waiting for the stoplight to turn green.
As far as your perception of people not reaching the handling limits of their cars, well...Couldn't the same be said about top speed? If I see a guy flying through a 35mph limit S-turn at 80mph...well I sure hope he ends up in jail before he kills someone (No matter how performance oriented his car is). The same can be said for the idiot doing 140 on the freeways.
So tell me....why should the average joe be reaching the limits of his car?
You're forgetting that the acceleration numbers for the other cars you listed were accomplished by torque-braking the engine, or by similarly dumping the clutch.
The RX-8 is not a dragster. I doubt that most people who would seriously consider one for purchase would list 0-60 times as a priority. Besides, once the RX-8 gets past 6,000rpm in second gear, there won't be too many cars it can't pull away from. Throw in some curves, and the RX-8 should fairly vanish into the distance.
basically, Sport Compact Car Magazine put the press test car RX-8 on a dyno, and found that the auxilary ports on the intake did not open at 6250rpm to allow extra breathing, thus virtually 'choking' the engine from achieving full power!
having the auxilary ports not opening has a DRASTIC effect on the high-end power output of the engine. My 91 NA RX-7 had its auxilary ports (aka 5th/6th ports) stuck, and you can feel the engine 'choke' above 6000 rpm. Once I had the ports cleaned and opening again, the car pulls HARD after 6000 all the way to redline.
basically, assuming SCC is correct, I'd bet a FULLY OPERATIONAL RX-8 can knock maybe another 0.2-0.3 second off of its 0-60 time...
Actually, wouldn't a real racer boy suggest that any deficiencies in driving talent can ALWAYS be overcome by the application of additional horsepower?
>>7.5 is plenty fast enough. You know what the racer boys say: "If you're a bad driver with 150 HP, you're going to be really awful with 300".
I'm sure that's true. Although, most people interested in sports cars would rather that they not be designed with the bad driver in mind.
It seems that some people prioritize acceleration while others prefer being able to handle curves at higher speeds, to each his own. I doubt that one mindset is necessarily safer than the other. I personally enjoy both.
Comments
Question 1: Would anyone have links to photos that show the actual car in those colors?
Also, what are people's opinions regarding resale for cars with multiple color combinations (i.e. Titanium Gray w/ Chapparal leather, etc.)? I talked to a dealer and he said "the general rule is that a car with 2 colors (for instance, a red car w/ red/black interior) is fine but a car with 3 colors (like the example above) will usually sit. Of course, someone may just come into the dealer and jump on it because they love it, but generally speaking those are harder to re-sell (you may have to swallow an extra $500-$1500 at resale time). The "safest" triple combo is silver w/ red/black leather (like the S2000)."
Question 1: Is this a fair comment?
I don't like anything that has been done with the GTP in the last three years (or the new design coming up). I think all the BMWs, Audis, VWs, and Nissan Maxima and Altima are a little plain. The 350Z is a two-seater. I haven't been trading in because I basically couldn't find a car I liked...now I have.
Somewhat off-topic: I've looked at the Mazda Canada site and the car is selling significantly cheaper over there. Does anyone know how easy it is to jump the border and buy a car? What fees are involved with bringing it back?
Suit claims automakers, dealers conspired to stop Canadian imports
Lawsuits filed over auto prices
Car firms tried to kill exports, suit says
The actual lawsuit
1) The 350Z felt more raw and powerful
2) The RX-8 was more like a BMW 3-Series
3) These two cars are extremely different but both enjoyable in their own ways.
Would be curious as to whethers saw the article and their thoughts.
indirect, maybe...
Based on that, how common will the car be on the street by its 2nd production year?
Also, Big H, are you considering waiting for the 2nd prod year due to possible mech issues are you probably going to dive in?
I think I like that Winning Blue color the best - sense is that Nordic Green will be a little sedate for this type of vehicle. Titanium Gray is pretty nice as well w/ red/chap leather - gives it a real modern look.
My guess is that they will take care of their customers with deposits first.
damn real life interfering with my dream... >:(
Rest assured there are many things that can and will change/affect our lives over the next few years. Neither of us may end up buying the RX-8 or mabe we'll choose some other model (perhaps an RX-8 derivative). Oftentimes I think most of the fun is in the anticipation of buying - the looking around, test driving, reading, comparing, dreaming, and likewise. I bought a home less than a year ago (I used to work for Enron in Houston but relocated to Dallas) and spent about 6 months looking. Homes can be just as interesting. The main difference is that there are an infinite number of "models" out there. Take your time. The RX-8 will only get cheaper while you look for the home.
BTW agree that pinstripes ruin the intended looks of a car!
second year production 30,000 units and this includes a possible coupe and convertable.
first cars are expected to show up at dealerships in june-july of 2003.
guess who won? ;-)
here's the article, as kindly scanned by someone:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2942
some performance numbers (for those that thinks numbers on paper are more important than driving dynamic as a whole) as tested by C&D on the RX-8:
weight: 2940 lbs. (lighter than a Boxter!)
skid pad: 0.91g
0-60mph: 5.9s
1/4 mile (everyone's favorite :rolleyes:): 14.5 @ 96mph
The RX-8 was not designed to be a drag car, obviously. A better indication of its real abilities would be a measurement of the speed it carries through turns (which is important when you have low torque).
This has been the trend for some time. Take a look at Edmunds' 2000 sport coupe comparo. Edmunds brought the cream of the crop of import coupes to do battle--RSX-S, Celica, Prelude, etc., and they all put up marvelous track times. Edmunds also brought along two similarly priced domestic V8 muscle cars for kicks, and those cars utterly destroyed the imports on a track. And no, it wasn't just drag racing. Unless one is driving 500 laps in a really tight circle (think Nascar but a 100 foot diameter loop) torque and horsepower still count for something.
So if the RX-8 is to be judged, it should be judged on its feel, its occasional grip on curves, its quality, its utility and its style. It shouldn't be judged on its track times or 0-60 times; it may not have the muscle to win the former and trying to win the latter will only result in a wrecked transmission.
That's not to say that Mazda is wrong to try the 4-door sports car concept, but I'm really hoping that a lighter, 2-door version comes out soon.
If you go on kazaa or something, you can download Japanese TV clips of top-end Japanese sports car reviews and races. Interestingly, in every one of those, the current RX-7 (still made in Japan) convincing wins every track trace, and it does so over the very best that Japan has to offer--NSX Type 0, Skyline GT-R, EVO7, etc.
LOL
nobody will buy the car unless it has the back doors.
In the 4-door configuration, it's a way for the Renesis to gain attention and acceptance in the marketplace, which will pave the way for the success of a more overtly sports-minded model.
It's intellectually dishonest to beat up the RX-8 for not being a "great sports car" when that was never the goal of the company that built it.
Regardless of those people who are anxious for a new RX-7, I think that Mazda is making the right move by builing the RX-8 first.
But making the rotary available in a 4-seat coupe opens up a much wider audience than a pure 2-seater. If the new Renesis can finally put to rest all of the perceived 'reliability' issues with rotaries, the RX8 may be the harbinger of a whole slew of new offerings.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/03images/cias2_rx8_xmen.jpg
Dinu
I was browsing around, and found this link:
http://www.akimitsu.net/index-en.htm
check out this guy Akimitsu's Spirit R!!!! :drool:
But at least Mazda will get some recongnition with a wide audience for making "cool" cars like the RX8 they saw at the movies.
Mazda can sure use all the "image" help they can get.
Dinu
There's a great write-up on the RX-8 in the April issue of Automobile mag. They compare it to the 330i and the 350Z. According to the article, the RX-8 is a real sports car, but not in the same way that the 350Z is. Also, the RX-8 is an legitimate 4-passenger sedan, but not in the same way as the 330i.
They complained about the lack of torque (duh), but quickly added that the engine is more tractable around town than the S2000's because of its eagerness to rev. This car is the real deal, folks.
it's a nation-wide autocrossing tour, using spec'd Mazda6's as competition cars. $39 gives you 4 laps of seat time around the course, and all the other activities at the event.
but what does this have to do with RX-8? Well according to the site's FAQ, the RX-8 will be shown at each and every Rev It Up event location!!!!
so if you haven't seen it, go sign up and check it out after you autocrossed the Mazda6!
this show is a 3-way comparison test pitting the Mustang SVT, the G35 Coupe, and the RX-8 against each other.
set your VCR/DVR!!!!
Dinu
Dinu
*drool*
drum roll.....
20.4 City/30.2 Highway
this is for the 6 speed version, the automatic version has very similar numbers...
With a huge clutch dump, they got 0-60 in 5.9.
A 'street smart' start of 5-60 (no clutch dump) netted 7.5 seconds.
I always got a chuckle about how much money some folks would spend on a car like a Firebird that was already overpowered to get that extra .2 off the 0-60, when they probably couldn't control the car anyway.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You can't be serious right?
IMO, Most people are afraid to use the full potential of their cars (acceleration or handling). I recall reading in one of the car magazines about a test on perceived handling limits, and the average driver thought they were about at the limit at about .4 gs or so (guessing at the number, but way under the cars limit, since even a Camry can pull .76-,8 these days).
I don't have many chances to do a full bore standing start acceleration run, but do get to excercise my Maxima in the mid range every so often (merging or passing), and even that car will move quick without having to go over 4K, and once in a while 5K.
If you need more than 7.5 to get around, then get a different car
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The problem with that is...thats not faster than most vehicles being built today. 7.5 is a poor accleration number to 60mph IMO by today's standards. Especially considering since honda accords, nissan maxima's/altima's, dodge neon turbo's, the list goes on would have an absolute field day against an RX8 in terms of rolling starts.
Then again...An RX8 owner (or leaser), could make a fool of himself revving his engine to 8k rpm and holding it there while waiting for the stoplight to turn green.
As far as your perception of people not reaching the handling limits of their cars, well...Couldn't the same be said about top speed?
If I see a guy flying through a 35mph limit S-turn at 80mph...well I sure hope he ends up in jail before he kills someone (No matter how performance oriented his car is). The same can be said for the idiot doing 140 on the freeways.
So tell me....why should the average joe be reaching the limits of his car?
The RX-8 is not a dragster. I doubt that most people who would seriously consider one for purchase would list 0-60 times as a priority. Besides, once the RX-8 gets past 6,000rpm in second gear, there won't be too many cars it can't pull away from. Throw in some curves, and the RX-8 should fairly vanish into the distance.
basically, Sport Compact Car Magazine put the press test car RX-8 on a dyno, and found that the auxilary ports on the intake did not open at 6250rpm to allow extra breathing, thus virtually 'choking' the engine from achieving full power!
having the auxilary ports not opening has a DRASTIC effect on the high-end power output of the engine. My 91 NA RX-7 had its auxilary ports (aka 5th/6th ports) stuck, and you can feel the engine 'choke' above 6000 rpm. Once I had the ports cleaned and opening again, the car pulls HARD after 6000 all the way to redline.
basically, assuming SCC is correct, I'd bet a FULLY OPERATIONAL RX-8 can knock maybe another 0.2-0.3 second off of its 0-60 time...
Or am I thinking of boy racer? ;D
I'm sure that's true. Although, most people interested in sports cars would rather that they not be designed with the bad driver in mind.
It seems that some people prioritize acceleration while others prefer being able to handle curves at higher speeds, to each his own. I doubt that one mindset is necessarily safer than the other. I personally enjoy both.