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HONEST OPINIONS: Are Toyota's Pickups Just as Good as The Big Three?
This is the place where Toyota fans can express their views on the Tacoma and the Tundra and how they fare well against the Ford's Ranger and F-Series, Dodge's Dakota and Ram 1500, Chevrolet's S-10/Colorado and Silverado 1500, and GMC's Sonoma and Sierra 1500.
It is funny that debates like this has not been started until the Tundra arrived two years ago...
Come forth and discuss what makes Toyota a competent contender against the others, or why Toyota has a long way to before becoming "an equal".
It is funny that debates like this has not been started until the Tundra arrived two years ago...
Come forth and discuss what makes Toyota a competent contender against the others, or why Toyota has a long way to before becoming "an equal".
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Comments
Regarding compacts, it seems the Ranger is probably the best competitor against the Tacoma. Evidence suggests the Tacoma beats the Ranger in offroading and quality/reliability, but does cost a little more.
The Ranger/Mazda B Series have been notorious for their off-road prowess...however, Pluto is right on the off-roading skills of Tacoma. With 12" of ground clearance, the TRD package, the lighter frame....
The Toyota did drive smoother and quieter but the interior room was just not large enough. It still felt almost like a midsize truck. If it had the size of the Chevy it would have been a no-brainer to pick the Toyota.
I just need the room cause we take the truck on surf trips and four - five guys won't fit comfortably in the Toyota.
As far as the quality of the Chevy... read the silverado posts in town hall. The 5.3 engine has been problamatic and fit-n-finish of interior is weak.
Neighbor has 2001 TUndra Limited 4x4 w/TRD pkg. Loaded? at $35K, should have quite a bit, but didn't. Maybe some things out of the Sequoia could have been added as at least OPTIONS, but were not.
I do believe, however, that if Toyota wants to become truly successful in the US market, they will have to produce a truck with at least a 5.4L engine, a usable rear seat/crew/ex-cab, and the capacity to tow at least 9000lbs. Like it or not, that is what MOST Americans want in a truck, whether or not they will use these features (most don't).
Plans are already in the making, however, for a bigger full-size Toyota truck. Can't wait...
What my question is to the chievy guys is how is the tundra not full? I know wheelbase is a little shorter, and it's about 3" narrower, but the tundra is taller...
also, these "faults" you say that chevy makes applies to what? options? the only way the step-side bed is available is through an option. you DON'T have to get it. i would assume that the people who get this don't care about bed size. however, the tundra's bed is smaller and that's not an option. so the "fault" you're talking about really doesn't make sense either since it's an option. face it, the big three kill toyota on options along with pricing. im not saying the tundra is junk, its actually a really nice truck. but your comments earlier really don't apply to anything here, since everything you talked about being a "fault" of the chevy, are really just options.
Brand loyalty and brotherhood at work, right?
we can get all four pickups with the same stuff. 4x2, 4.7, 4.6, 4.8, 4.7 engines, extended cabs, shortbeds. Price HAS to stay under $25K. WHich is the better deal?
I have been reading the more than 1500 posts on the Chevy Silverado problems thread. Oh My God. Shakes, tranny, problems, piston slap, oil consumption, electrical gremlins and the list repeats itself and goes on and on.
I also read the 188 posts about the Tundra problems and only one of the posters had as serious a problem as the Silverado posters. Most of the posters had minor problems.
I fully understand that most trucks have lemons in them, but the number of problem trucks among the Chevy ranks are far and away more in numbers and in severity, than the tundra problems.
Some of the posters did not even learn from their mistake of buying a chevy. So they went and bought another Chevy Sliverado. What is the logic here? I really want to know. Why would you ever buy a chevy again? Hell I will not buy one and I am only reading the damn posts.
The Tundra is the best full size truck there is. CR chose it as their best truck and so did JD Powers.
Most of you who complain about the rear seats and the towing capacity do not use them anyway. It tows 7200 lbs and that is plenty. I only need it to tow my race car once a month to and from the track. The rest of the time, I need a reliable means of comfortable daily driver. The truck drives like a car, is exceptionally quiet, and has the most rigid truck chassis in its class.
Also, it is the safest in an offset collision, one of the most common collisions. I will live with the cramped rear seat and the lower towing capacity rather than drive an F150 or a Silverado and not live at all!!!
If Chevy made a 4.7L DOHC engine comparable to the competition's 5.3, and put the package in a truck that won over CR and JD Powers with its much higher than average quality and reliability, which also braked better than the competition, we would ABSOLUTELY NEVER hear the end of it.
But the truck happened to be a Toyota so the Chevy guys will declare it junk.
ndahi- what if you want to tow a 4 or 5-ton boat? and you have a tundra? just not go boating? thought so.
guys, the tundra is nice. but its just a T100 in a prom dress with a manicure. its ALMOST a full-size truck, but not quite. its overpriced (like all toyotas) and cannot equal the work prowess like an F150.
one question for you guys: if the tundra or toyota for that matter is such a good truck, and you all say CR and JD says it is, and i don't doubt it is, why has the F150 been the best selling VEHICLE in the United States for over twenty years in a row? along with the ranger in its respective class. twenty years of "blind consumers? i dont think so. the truck speaks for itself. Ford builds good long lasting trucks. if they didn't, they wouldn't sell so many year in and year out.
you really cannot argue this. these are facts. im sure you will though.
Blind loyalty and especially ignorance has nothing to do with it. To me someone who drives a truck with a one star side impact rating has more to do with the term ignorant...don't you agree?
We have also had the discussion regarding the 4.7 vs 4.8 issue. You don't remember?
Seems like you have nothing else better to do...glad Tbunder straightened you out. Personally, I think its a waste of time discussing a full sized truck with a mini truck owner. DOH!!
ndahi12
Ever check out the website tundrasolutions.com. Ever wonder why its there and no Tundra owners here? Think about it for a moment and visit the site for
TUNDRA SOLUTIONS
Prowess of an F150? Your kidding right. Let us look at some numbers from Edmunds comparo:
0-60 Tundra=8.6; F150=8.9
1/4 mile Tundra=16.7; F150=16.9
60-0 Tundra=134 ft; F150=142 ft
Skidpad Tundra=0.72g; F150=0.70
Slalom Tundra=56.9; F150=54.3
Observed Fuel Economy Tundra=14 mpg; F150=12.3 mpg
Price Tundra=29,548; F150=31,880
And that Tundra in the comparo did not even have the TRD suspension package. Put that on and the handling numbers become even bigger.
The only prowess that the F150 has is that it tows a bit more than the Tundra. Your statement falls on its face because it is contradicted by the facts.
"why has the F150 been the best selling VEHICLE in the United States for over twenty years in a row? along with the ranger in its respective class. twenty years of "blind consumers? i dont think so. the truck speaks for itself. Ford builds good long lasting trucks. if they didn't, they wouldn't sell so many year in and year out."
I will tell you why. The Federal Govt has slapped a 25% tariff on all trucks coming from over seas and that made trucks from overseas not competitive. Second This is the first time Toyota has built a full size truck. So ofcourse the F150 has to be number one. There was no competition from the JDM car makers.
Now Toyota has built its first full size truck in the US. This way they can escape that sill tariff that protect domestic truck makers from competition.
This truck has been two years in production and it already has had the JD Power award and the Consumer Reports award. When was the last time a truck by the big three did that?
Lariat, I would rather have a truck that perfroms better overall than simply does one thing well, and that's tow about 1000lbs more. Besides, let's face it, anybody who plans on towing 8000lbs or so regulary isn't going to get an F-150 or Tundra, they'll go to the next size up.
Anyways, I'll say it again. I will sacrifice losing a 1000lbs towing capacity (which I wouldn't use anyway) for Toyota quality and reliability.
Tbunder, get off your more-Fords-sold = they're better argument. One of the best selling vehicles of ALL TIME is the VW Beetle. Production started decades ago and continues to this day in Mexico, and well over 22 million have been produced. But I think we can all agree the Bug isn't the best car out there.
This will be just like the ranger vs. taco board, now that tbunder is here....."Show me the numbers!" "Oh wait, I made up my numbers, but you are all stupid anyway".
"the Chevrolet nearly dared us to pull larger loads, as the weight we carrierd did nothing to tax the package"
tundra "the lack of bottom end frunt is evident when carrying heavly loads"
"comparing apples to aplles, we'd say Toyota's payload rating is optimistic, while the Chevy's is pessimistic"
and they suggest getting helper springs if you are going to haul with the tundra, what a joke.
Just the opposite, but, we are buying a $30K vehicle and I want a vehicle that has ALL the features I desire. Does the big three have more mechanical problems..yes! Enough to warrant getting less of a vheicle then I want? That is the 30,000 dollar question each of us faces.
I can say this. WHEN Toyota produces a truck with the size and features comparible to the big three it will be worth the 10 -15% premium it will cost.
Until then I will stick with a truck that gives me ALL the features I want.
huh? So in the test the truck wasnt reliable? Wouldnt start? Broke down?
Some people are past beyond brainwashed
lets see the acceleration and skid numbers when you load two comparable equipped tundras and f150's with a couple 1000 pounds. the tundra will be sitting on its rear bumper, and the f150 will be leaving it in the dust up that hill. you're crazy to think the tundra is up to any type of working task like an f150 is. you can't go out and cut a 2500 pound load of wood in a tundra, and expect to cross the creek bottoms and climb up the steep grades to get out of the timber. the payload nor the bottom end grunt needed to do this just isn't there. with an f150 however, it will be no problem.
pluto, again you're ignoring the common sense here. why do you think that people still keep making the ford's the best selling trucks here in the good ole usa? cuz they're junk? problematic? i dont think so. ignore it and deny it all you want, but when a person or people build a good product, you will get repeat buyers through the years. why do people keep buying heinz ketchup and making it the best selling ketchup worldwide? cuz its a good product and they know they can depend on it tasting good. same analogy goes for the fords. they can be depended on so people keep buying them. you simply cannot argue with this fact. if it was in your ballpark concerning your precious tacoma, you'd argue it too. and you know what, i couldn't defend it. cuz when people keep buying a certain product for years, it says something for that product. it must be a good one.
scorpio- i assume your little post was directed towards me. exactly what numbers did i ever make up, and how many times did i have to correct you on your erroneous posts? several if i remember. remember, i constantly reminded you that you needed to upgrade your research skills. this should be fun.
"Ranger is 400-some lbs heavier than Tacoma, because Ranger is made of real steel, it's not a tincan".
Man.....tbunder goes to draw analogies between ketchup and trucks, and when I try doing something like that, I get called dumb.
tbunder.......lets see some NUMBERs. You claim that F150 will climb up the hills, cross the creeks, PROVE IT. Isn't it what you Ranger people have been telling us Taco owners to do for about 2K messages now? Show me the numbers. Show me a fricken video of a Tundra and F150. Have you ever owned a Tundra? No. You can say whatever you want, but please prove it with some good evidence (Oh, and if you are citing any magazines, there better not be any Ford ads in them, since those magazines are sell-outs)
Ryan, Edmunds and JD Powers wouldn't recomment the Chevy because of quality/reliability issues. That's a FACT. Your Chevy STILL wouldn't impress them, or me, if it towed 15,000lbs but had poor quality and reliability.
F150) max. towing- 8400lbs.
Tundra) max. towing- 7200lbs.
F150) max. payload- 2810lbs.
Tundra) max. payload- 1938lbs.
F150) max. GVWR- 7700
Tundra) max. GVWR- 6200
F150) bed depth- 20 inches
Tundra) bed depth- 16.7 inches
so there you are. all these aspects are in the major working category, and shows just how strong these trucks are. when it comes to towing, hauling, and overall weight ratings, the Tundra can't run with an F150. who knows, the chevy's might be even higher or dodge. you asked for the numbers, here they are. use your common sense to establish which truck would pull a 2500lb. load of wood out of the timber without dragging its rear-end or running out of grunt up the hills.
pluto- you need to reread the posts. the only reason Boaz was referring to lightnings is because one of your misinformed toyota brethren was bragging about how awesome his 4x4 tundra accelerated empty and how good it cornered. so if you really want to compare toyota's handling and ford's handling, isn't it fair to bring the lightning in on this? just like you think its fair to compare an add-on item like a supercharger to ford's stock 210 horse SOHC 4.0.
so why couldn't a ford dealer install a supercharger onto a 4.0? i bet they would. and then do you still want to compare horsepower? granted its not a ford s/c, but hey, a s/c is an s/c. with the right installation (ford technician), i guarantee ford would warranty it. with the ranger already making nearly 20 more horsepower than the 3.4, along with more torque, i'd hate to be you when comparing final power ratings.
Heehee
Just nod and say alrighty then
But hey, your max tow rating is 1000lbs more. Hope you're happy!!!
Consumer reports and JD Powers are mainly
opinions. Opinions of the few meant to be
digested by the masses. Yes the articles
list facts within them. Yet the conclusions
are based upon opinions.
Personally I would look at the sales numbers
to see what the PEOPLE want.
One would be wise to only use those reports
as a starter NOT AS GOSPEL.
btw- pluto, final assembly point for F150's is GULP- UNITED STATES. check out carpoint.com and yahoo.com if you need assurance. its NOT MEXICO.
also, the numbers i listed did NOT mention anything about the silverado's. but answer me this, why did it (GM) win the motor trend truck of the year a few years back ('99 if im right) if its so bad. they're a HUGE player in this media game you're so obsessed with. and the gmc envoy winning the suv of the year this year. im sure you've seen the commercial. your reliability statements about gm's just dont go with these prestigious awards gm has been given to its silverado platform. im no big gm fan (love the ZR2) but i assure you, they're not junky trucks.
Hence my comment about not citing any facts from magazines that have Ford/Chevy/etc ads in them, because that same weapon was used against Toyota people by tbunder.
Hard facts are a hard thing to come by. You all have your personal preferences, we have ours. Personally, I don't care for Tundra/Chevy 1500/F150, I dont need them, I don't like the gas milage they get.
What I do hear, though, and what partly makes my opinion about those trucks, is what media says. I do rely on my own judgement and taste when I look at the cars and trucks. Which is why I chose Tacoma. Somehow a lot of Tacoma owners are laughing at people driving Dodge, since the Dodge engine wont make it to say 200K miles (I know my Chevy engine did not, I just finally got rid of a Chevy S10 Blazer, 1993 V6 one, 188K miles on it, every trip to a mechanic cost me $500, and engine was about to go real bad), so maybe there is something to the fact that Toyota is more reliable.
Then again, Tbunder will tell me that his Ranger has 7K miles on it, and it is running flawlessly....so what. My Tacoma has 500 miles on it, and is running flawlessly.
So until I get disappointed in Toyota, I will keep my opinion about domestic-made trucks and cars, thank you very much. I'm actually considering getting the "Friends don't let friends drive a Chevy" stickers, I've had too much pain with my Chevy.
See, gator just said that, basically, JD Powers, edmunds, etc, all amount to nothing because they are opinions. Hey....tbunder, you reading? Didnt you try to cite me JD Powers survey about how Nissan you were looking at was more superior to Tacoma?
You guys might just quit it right now, this is not going anywhere. We are all influenced by our experiences with the trucks, and will not take [non-permissible content removed] from anyone else, wehn they try to bash you. Imagine that....Chevy owner agreeing that they have a crapper truck than Toyota owners do. Maybe, then again, pigs can fly when noone is looking. This board is going to become a ground for personal insults, offers to race for pink slips (tbunder, you still reading?) to prove something, etc. etc. etc.
I've said it in the Ranger vs. Taco board, and will say it again:
until you guys can meet somewhere in the US at equal distance from each other, and put your trucks to a set of pre-designed tests side by side, with impartial judges, and everyone oversee the tests, you'll never know what is the correct outcome. And with reliability record, you have to subject trucks to the same sort of abuse for 5 years, then see who blows the headgasket first.
Until then, this is useless.
also, pluto, is that all you got? the little post about the F150 being made in mexico? i post all those factual numbers straight from carpoint.com, and you don't even acknowledge them? yeah, its what i thought you'd do. you always quietly throw in the towel. heehee
Besides, tbunder, didnt you go all out to prove to us how Ranger was US-made? I mean, it was getting to the point of ridiculousy, Ranger was superior because it was made in the US, and Tacoma is made in Japan. And how you quickly shift gears to the "I don't care where it is made" seeing how others say they don't care. Real good.
He doesn't want to validate that the Chevy silverado has the most return buyers of any truck.
Pluto, they didn't pick between the Tundra and the Silverado. They said if you want a daily driver get the tundra, if you want a mans truck for work get the silverado.
Tundra) max. towing- 7200lbs.
F150) max. payload- 2810lbs.
Tundra) max. payload- 1938lbs.
F150) max. GVWR- 7700
Tundra) max. GVWR- 6200
F150) bed depth- 20 inches
Tundra) bed depth- 16.7 inches"
Some of these numbers are way off. The numbers from Consumer Reports say otherwise for a 4X4:
Towing: Tundra=7,100lbs; F150=7,700lbs
loading: Tundra=1,340lbs; F150=1,290lbs
Also CR conducted a towing test of 7,000 lbs from 0-60 for bothe the Tundra and the F150. The Tundra pulled the trialer to 60 in 25 seconds and the F150 in 27 seconds. So I guess that the Tundra can tow even faster than the F150, but it cannot tow as much as the F150
Did you conduct this test? where are your results? where did this info come from. I listed measureable results from Edmunds about the "prowess" of the F150 and it did not exist. Now you come out with this fictitious test.
I also posted about the fact that the Tundra can tow a 7000 lbs trailer faster 0-60 than the F-150.
I would like to see your proof!!! Plerase show me some hard test results so I can believe you.
Trucktrend 0-60 with 1000lbs in bed
Silverado 9.34
Tundra 9.86
Dodge 10.57
Ford 10.71
the Ford was using the tallest gears of the group
But of course that extra time doesn't help if your bumper dragging on the ground, and you can't get the thing started in the first place because of tundras starting problems.
By the way....check out #2702. You cited the JD Powers survey, calling it "Hard Facts" (In fact, you pulled the same stunt on me with Nissan, but when I went to look there...whoops, Tacoma was the winner somehow, yet you never acknowledged that). Now read above, where people call these "Hard Facts" opinions. So which one is correct?
I mean, you've made it sound like a hard fact that Ranger was 400 lbs heavier than Tacoma, because "Ranger is made of real steel, not a tin". WHen you were pointed out the numbers that showed that Ranger was 60lbs heavier, not 400, you did not acknowledge that for a week, and then said "Oh, by the way, I found out where the numbers came from".
At least I had acknowledged my mistakes when I made them, have you?
Your challenge was accepted, twice, and you still keep on saying like it never was. Is your memory that short, and should I dig through the messages and give you the #s so you can go and contact the other party?
Lastly.......what exactly makes you qualified to talk about the 4 trucks in question here? Anyone (well, almost...unless you live in Florida can read the numbers and say "Oh, this one is bigger, so must be better". You obviously have not owned a Tundra. Have you owned a Silverado? You make these wonderful claims about "Ford will run up teh hill with the bed full of timber".....sounds like you've done it in all 4 trucks here. Have you? Please back up your claim.
You want to talk about the trucks, fine. You want to disagree about the trucks, that's OK too...
But PLEASE stop "challenging" each other.
Thanks
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