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Comments
I pumped the brakes in my Chevy, I pumped the brakes in my Chrysler, I pump the brakes in my Tacoma. My mom does the same thing on her 2001 Chrysler van (even though it has ABS). My stepdad does the same thing on his 626 Mazda (even though it has ABS). Anyone can do it, but it's one of those things that general public loves because it simplifies driving for them, and they can sue the automaker later if the ABS does not work in the rain.
Hey Bama, kindly explain to Scorpio the benefits of ABS and why you got them with your Tundra. Is it a LUXURY or did you think you really needed it as you couldn't pump your pedal fast enough.....doh!
Thats about as smart as sticking your finger into a blender
#259 of 305 Pumping ABS by abc246 Nov 26, 2001 (07:31 pm)
I hate this topic but am posting this so people do not pump ABS brakes.
When you pump ABS the computer must start calculations over again and again. The only way an ABS computer knows if a wheel is sliding is by having it slow or even lock. This starts a calculation and triggers a dump valve and starts an electric pump. Once the process has started it is very effective and most systems can pulse the brakes between 10 to 30 times a second. If you pump the brakes all this must start again and the process takes time to start.
By the way, has anyone noticed that the Silverado sometimes pulses the brakes just one or two times on moderate unloaded stops? This is the electronic brake distribution system reducing the brake pressure to the rear discs. The system is sensing the coefficient of friction by getting a feel for the surface and to an extent the amount of load on the truck. If it found no slip (such as when loaded) it would allow the higher brake pressure to remain. My Toyota used a mechanical arm valve attached to the rear axle, but the newer systems are much more effective. I believe the Tundra uses the electronic system also with ABS.
The Silverado ABS system seems first rate. I have used it in 4 lo on ice and was very surprised at how well it works.
So what is it that Scorpio and ndahi12 don't understand? Please try to makes sense of your arguments against ABS.
This is better than going to any sports game or movie. I have never had so many laughs
This is pure speculation on my part, but a good driver could probably stop his vehicle as quick or quicker than an ABS system could. How many racecars are equipped with ABS brakes?
I've driven cars and trucks without ABS all my life, so why would I all of a sudden put everythign on hold, and wait for a couple of month for the ABS on my Tacoma? It's not a vital option for me, more like something that it'd be nice to have, like a sunroof.
Before you jump on bashing Toyota again about how ABS is not offered immediately, thats for Tacoma. Obviously its there for Tundra.
I don't know anything about pumping ABS'ed brakes. I might just try that at work, me and my coworkers built an ABS simulator (using ABS system from some Chevy) for a demo, I'll just try to see what happens.
What doesnt seem clear to is this: when a human can pump brakes maybe 2-3 times a second at most,
usually doing about 1-2 seconds worth of pumping before the car slows down nicely anyway.
How does that interfere with calculations in the ABS ECU? The computer in there is fast enough to "start the calculations all over again".
That makes alot of sense
I personally think all this automatic 4WD, traction control, ABS etc. is a bunch of nonsense. I've driven a lot of V8 Crown Vics, but they're equipped with that stupid traction control. You can't hustle that thing around a corner and use a little throttled oversteer (aka power-slide) to keep the nose pointed where you want to go. Same thing applies to vehicles with automatically engaging 4WD whenever a wheel slips. You have no oversteer capabilities.
I guess all of these new features are useful if you never learned to drive properly in the first place. I personally don't want ABS, traction control, automatic transmission, etc.
Will a truck with ABS brakes stop in a shorter distance than the exact same truck without ABS brakes (assuming the test was done under the same dry road conditions, with the same tires and condition, etc)?
-David
pluto and scorpio: the bottom line is this- ford sells more trucks on this planet than any other maker. that says something for their trucks. people believe in them and trust them. i dont think anyone has ever asked you this question though: WHY DOESN'T TOYOTA EVEN COME CLOSE TO SELLING AS MANY TRUCKS AS FORD IF THEY'RE SO DARN GOOD, AND CHEAP AS YOU CLAIM? im really looking forward to this answer. or will you bow out of this one too? if you really look at you guys' posts, you two are really kind of funny looking.
What is it that you don't understand Pluto? ABS will pump the pedal as fast as 30 times/second. You know anyone who can do that other than Superman?
Let's put it another way....have you mastered the "art"? Scorpio? And as posted by Scorpio, his mother and stepdad pump the ABS regularly. How does this help them? Do they think that their 1 pump per second will be in addition to the 30 pumps per second by the ABS thus netting them 31 pumps per second?
Scorpio-
Trucks have ABS. Toyota offers as an option. Your statement that what we did prior to ABS is a moot point. Why? Cause they come with them now so your point is inconsequential. Unless of course I'm looking to buy a Toyota Hilux....but I understand they all rusted away....lol
Why doesnt Toyota sell as many as everyone else? How should I know? Ask Toyota Corp. that. Get on the phone and ask them. To be honest, I like it that way. Honda has already turned Civic into "everybody has one" car, and I don't want it to happen to Tacoma. I don't care about bestseller lists. I don't go out and buy bestsellers because a bunch of other people liked them. You don't go see movies solely based on movie critic reviews, do you?
They had a quota to sell 100K Tundras this year, and they filled it. I didnt say Toyota was cheap, spending 21.5K on a vehicle seems somewhat ridiculous to me. But Toyota still is a better deal, as far as I am concerned, when compared to Ford. Overall it is a better deal. Yes, I acknowledged that there are some areas where Ranger wins (I wouldnt mind having 210hp engine, but 190 is plenty for me right now), and there are areas where Tacoma wins.
I've given you some reasons before why I think Toyota is not a bestseller, such as:
a. People who like to buy domestics. If you remember in the ranger vs taco forum, people said that in CA there were a lot more Tacomas than there were Rangers. It's all demographics, and I doubt that some farmers from Missouri who lived in a town of 600 people all their lives would all of a sudden go out and buy a Toyota (I've been to towns like that in MO, it isnt pretty).
b. Price. There are always (and a lot of) those who buy cheapest possible things. I've once talked to a woman who I worked in WalMart with during my college years, her view on the things was "I'm going to buy a $500 rusted up 197x car, and drive it until something big breaks, then, instead of fixing it, I'll take it to a junkyard, and go buy another one". If you want the live demonstration of "hunting for cheapest prices", go to your local retail store during "tax-free" day. All those people come out at 6am to WalMart so they can save 30c on a tshirt, but spend 2 hours in a line. People like that would never buy a Toyota. Why buy it, when there is another truck that costs $2-3K less.
c. Good business sense. Why flood the market with stuff now, and have decline in sales later (Being a publically traded company, Ford is obligated to make money constantly), when you can experience a steady growth throughout the times? Draw a parallel to the stock market: what happened to all those companies that had a 100%-200% growth a year ago? Delisted off NASDAQ. Company where I work has kept the growth to a specific number, and just kept pasing along, and now we are picking up the good engineers from the companies that went under. And getting bonuses.
Thats what I can think of right now.
http://cartalk.cars.com/Mail/Letters/05-16-97/9.html+ABS+brakes +stopping+distances&hl=en
Pay attention to the part saying "The Institute for Highway Safety has issued statements claiming antilock brakes do not provide a substantially shorter stopping distance on dry pavement, nor have they reduced the number of crashes in vehicle insurance claims...ABS may increase stopping distances on loose gravel or soft snow..."
The biggest advantage ABS offers is maintaining stability because the wheels don't lock up. IT IS NOT THAT ABS DECREASES STOPPING DISTANCES.
I've seen tests where ABS and non-ABS brake equipped cars slam the breaks. In EVERY ONE of them, the non-ABS car's driver locked up the wheels, INSTEAD of using threshold breaking, which is what a good driver would do.
WRONG AGAIN, OBYONE!!!
Tbunder, I don't even know what you're talking about. Maybe you can clarify your jumble into something coherent I can respond to.
PS. This program won't let me post any word greater than 115 characters (why, I have no idea). To access that link, you will have to type it in manually in your address bar.
You seem to avoid the question posed to you. Let me ask you again....
What is it that you don't understand Pluto? ABS will pump the pedal as fast as 30 times/second. You know anyone who can do that other than Superman?
Let's put it another way....have you mastered the "art"? Scorpio? And as posted by Scorpio, his mother and stepdad pump the ABS regularly. How does this help them? Do they think that their 1 pump per second will be in addition to the 30 pumps per second by the ABS thus netting them 31 pumps per second?
Have you noticed that Scorpio has nothing to say on this issue...I wonder if he let his mom and stepdad know?
Good luck on this one now!!!
I guess when you figure out how to post a link you'll do so...if it even exists...hehe!!
Seelig-
What can I say....
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http://cartalk.cars.com/Mail/Letters/05-16-97/9.html
As far as have I mastered the art of braking, lets say that I can stop when I need to. And I won't lose that skill because I'll be driving a Tacoma without ABS for the next 5-7 years. And no, I didnt let them know, I'll let my stepfather figure it out, he's a smart guy. Maybe he doesnt pump the brakes anymore, I don't know. Havent been home in a while.
YOU stated that ABS stops faster because it can pump the brakes faster than a person. YOU'RE WRONG, and there's a wealth of information out there proving it. If you choose to ignore it, that's because you're an ignorant person.
This all reminds me of your harking on the Tacoma's safety rating for months on end. Then you found out the Tacoma had been rated overall the safest compact truck. I guess you'll just have to ignore that too.
You're starting to stoop to Tbunder's level now!
Just a reminder that the News & Views chat is on tonight (5-6pm Pacific/8-9 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
Tonight's topic is On the road again: Your best road trips in 2001!
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html
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