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HONEST OPINIONS: Are Toyota's Pickups Just as Good as The Big Three?
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Comments
"Yep, that EPA be puttin them tundra ones in that "standard truck" class, along with them S10, Ranger"
Hmmm: The F150 and Dodge Ram 1500 are "standard size" according to the EPA.
And let's not forget that the Shakerado uses S10 trannys and pumpkins. No wonder they have 40% LESS powertrain warranty than the heavy duty Tundra.
Pictures don't lie. Which truck would you guys rather be in?
So what's the comparison? The one star beats all others hands down? Doh!!
I guess there's no argument that the Tacoma leads in this catagory.
"Who was the guy who needed the headgaskets replaced? "
That is a good question - maybe it was you? You had so much work done on that '99 Lemonado of yours before you unloaded it that maybe you forgot?
"Who has the warping brake rotors?"
Good question. Certainly not me - the only problem I have is picking Chevy bowties out of my towhitch. Those Chevs have really WEAK brakes.
"Who has the engine that won't stay running without the mandatory timing belt rehab every 60-90K miles?"
What is it 60 or 90K? Don't know? Aren't you just expressing your ignorance about Tundras?
"Who could ask for anything more? Not us. Pennzoil certified million mile engine? That's us! "
And anybody who believes this claptrap about 1 million miles deserves what they get. GM sure didn't believe it - and THEY should know what their WEAK engines can or cannot do.
and rusted away within 4 years.
GM trucks ever since and no looking back !
.........Geo
1. Give it 3" less ground clearance.
2. Make the brand new engine knock like a diesel. Tell the unfortunate owners that "It is normal" and refuse to fix it. Make the unfortunate owners (suckers) try to figure out if the rods are knocking or the pistons.
3. Make a rear slider out of cheap plastic. When they fail - discontinue them.
4. Give it WEAK brakes. Did Chevy use Chevette disks on their "mid-size" pickup?
5. Make the owners upgrade the suspension and tires just to put a tow hitch on it. Make a transmission cooler optional. Do not make an engine oil cooler even an option (Can you say WEAK?)
6. Make new Chev owners learn what an "intermediate shaft" is and how to replace it often.
7. Give the WEAK truck 40% LESS powertrain warranty.
VOILA! - You have a brand new Hyundai Shakerado!!!
How silly of me...
They must have made some sort of mistake by deciding that the Tacoma is the safest compact truck.
Yeah right...
I'm not saying it is a good thing that the Tacoma failed the driver's side impact test (I'm not going to try and alter the facts as you yourself seem to do), but if you want to point this out, why don't you point out that the S10/Sonoma seat restraints failed the tests when the Tacomas did not?
You mention some facts but ignore others...
Are you a lawyer or something?
What are brakes suppose to do?
Stop vehicles. And the Tundra stops quicker...
Case closed.
How can you continue an argument like this?
INJURY MEASURES: LEFT LEG POOR Measures taken from the neck and chest in the offset test indicate low risk of injury to these body regions. However, forces on the dummy's head indicate the possibility of injury. Forces on the left tibia and foot indicate the likelihood of lower leg injury.
Tells you how much that test is worth. DOH!!
Here's what your link said about the Silverardo:
During the test the Silverado showed poor cab compression but, surprisingly, its combined score was saved by a lack of injuries to the dummies head, neck and chest.
Lack of injuries. Hmmm....what does that say?
In post #216, if you don't understand the conceptual difference between discs and drums, well....that's good cause you got drums. BTW, ever got water in the drums and see how well they stop? It's obvious which is better between the two. And stopping distance can only be compared if the suspension, tires, and weight of the vehicles are identical. If not, well....and did you see any of the tests perform multiple braking? If they did, you'd find degredation in the numbers posted by the Tundra....due to their cheap drum brakes.
Oh boy what have we come to...
Try to keep the vehicles in their class....
You want to start adding quotes. Fine...
S10/Sonoma
BOTTOM LEFT: The steering wheel moved back sharply, and the dummy rebounded toward the driver door, nearly striking its head on the windowsill during the offset test. Larger photo
Silverado
TOP RIGHT: The dummy's position in relation to the steering wheel and instrument panel after the crash test indicates the driver's survival space wasn't maintained well.
BOTTOM LEFT: Poor control of dummy movement allowed the head to drop below the window sill.
BOTTOM RIGHT: Footwell and instrument panel intrusion, in combination with the driver seat pitching forward, greatly reduced the space for the dummy's legs and feet.
Compare that to the Tundra...
TOP RIGHT: The dummy's position in relation to the steering wheel and instrument panel after the crash test indicates that the driver's survival space was maintained well.
BOTTOM LEFT: Dummy movement was well controlled. During rebound, the dummy's head contacted only the head restraint, as indicated by smeared greasepaint.
BOTTOM RIGHT: Forces on the right lower leg were high enough to indicate the possibility of injury.
Who builds a better truck???
The barrier is actually deformable and absorbs energy similarly to another like size vehicle. Glad to be of help.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/news_releases/2001/pr060401.htm
Oh, and since you like to brag GMC sales are so much bigger than Toyota, that means there's more posers and yuppies in your beloved GMC/Chevy yuppie trucks and SUVs than there could possibly be in Toyotas.
52farminchevy/Quadrunner500/obyone, get your head out of that mud on your pig farm!
Have fun with this one now! Oh, I forgot, that line wasn't funny after the 500th time!
"Did anyone buy a truck because they looked it up under safest before they went down to look at trucks?"
Actually, I didn't pay much attention to safety ratings when I was young. Now that I am older and wiser, I realize that I want the safest vehicle that I can drive (Toyota Tundra).
"The Toyota meets many of the needs of people that don't need a work truck or anything bigger than a ½ ton."
The Tundra was compared towing a 5000 lb load with the Wimperado and Truck Trend said the Tundra "Got the nod". Does this mean the Wimperado is not really "full size"?
Consumer Reports hooked 7000lb to both the Tundra and the F150. The Tundra out_accelerated the Ford. Does this mean the F150 is not "full size"?
Truck Trend loaded 1350lb in the bed of the Tundra and it STILL outbraked the Wimperado. Does this mean the Wimperado is not "Full Size"?
"If you want a full sized truck in a ½ ton or 3/4 ton or even a 1 ton You have to wait till Toyota grows up."
Well, no. The Tundra is the most capable 1/2 ton pickup. No need to wait.
"If you want a V-10 or big diesel Toyota still doesn't get it."
None of the Big2 have V-10s or diesels in their 1/2 ton pickups.
"So if the question is are Toyota's Full sized trucks as defined by the American buying public? "
Who are you to talk for the American buying public? The American public has voted Tundra to the tune of 100,000 trucks a year.
"Are Toyota's well built? Yes."
We agree.
"Do they last longer than a domestic?"
If the T100 is any indication they do. The 1996 T100 won the '01 award for the "most dependable" 1/2 ton pickup by J.D. Power. This is the result of a 5 year study.
"We will continue to buy Chevies, Fords, and Dodges with 350, 351, and 360 CID engines and dream of 400 and 500 cubic inch V-10s. Nobody said business was fair."
Sorry to break your bubble, but the largest engine available in a Chev Wimperado 1/2 ton is a 318. The largest engine available in a the ford 1/2 ton is a 324 ci. While the Dodge Lamb is available with a 360, everyone agrees that it is the weakest and thirstiest V8 available in the Big2. I guess business is not fair.
The Big2 owners are continuously trying to compare their 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups to the Toyota 1/2 ton. This says to me that Toyota has hit the mark since the Big2 buyers don't want to compare their WIMPY 1/2 tons.
Still no comment from obyone on the F-150, Silverado and S-10s dismal ratings.
>Sorry to break your bubble, but the largest engine available in a Chev Wimperado 1/2 ton is a 318. The largest engine available in a the ford 1/2 ton is a 324 ci. While the Dodge Lamb is available with a 360, everyone agrees that it is the weakest and thirstiest V8 available in the Big2. I guess business is not fair.<
**********************************
Bama, you should update your disinformation.
The Chevy 5.3, (actually 5328 CC) is a 325 cu/in but I digress. And the largest engine in a GM 1/2 ton is not the 5.3L anyway, it's the 325 hp 6.0L, in the AWD Sierra C3!!! (We are Professional Grade)
And since you're in agreement with toymota calling that mid-size tindra a 1/2 ton truck, what is Chevy's 1500 CC SB? Good luck on this one now! It comes with a 300 hp 6.0L V8. Look at the payload and tow ratings on it, and you'll agree tindra is a full size farce by comparison. And toymota lovers are extending hope for a 5.4L HD? Sorry to break YOUR bubble, but I'm ROFLMAO!!!
What it comes down to, is your definition of a full size, 1/2 ton, or whatever...is arbitrary, and only to suit yout pathetic argumentative comparisons. You're the expert at parsing out what options can be compared, simply because you have only limited options. So you pick the category! In every size, every flavor, every price, there's a domestic truck that stomps yours, except perhaps Rube's '52 farmin' Chevy. But then again, you'll have to wait 49 years or 1 million miles, whichever comes first, to know for sure..
Here's what your link said about the Silverardo:
During the test the Silverado showed poor cab compression but, surprisingly, its combined score was saved by a lack of injuries to the dummies head, neck and chest.
Compare that to the Tundra...
BOTTOM RIGHT: Forces on the right lower leg were high enough to indicate the possibility of injury.
Now what is it that you don't understand about safety. Anywhere did it say injury in the Silverado? NO! Did they say injury in the Tundra? YES...So what is it that you don't understand?
Pluto-
Only reason I did the compare between the Tacoma and the rado was to help natureboy understand how worthless his '99 Taco really was. And here he thought that it was worth a lot of money. Just spread the word on the one star side impact rating and see who will buy that truck...DOH!!
Also, stuff about the safest truck is BS< you have been posting in edmunds saying you had a tundra since it first came out before their were any safety ratings. so either you don't have a tundra you claim you do or you didn't really care about safety either way you are a liar.
Why can't you just face teh facts bama a Chevy 1/2 ton tows more, hauls more, had more engine options, more configurations, more room, a bigger bed, customizable for daily driving or work, longest lasting trucks on the road, equal interior materials to the tundra, faster acceleration, better handling (truck trend slalom, longer wheelbase (better ride and towing)
The tundra stops faster, and looks like a car, and has an extremely soft suspension. well if thats what you look for in a truck well great.
And when we talk about collapse of the passenger compartment, well, the pictures say much more than words ever could.
At any rate, the Toyota easily beat the "marginal" Chevy, despite your picking the article apart.
While I'm at it, I think I'll continue the Chevy boys' mismatched comparisons and start comparing full-size Toyota Landcruisers to Chevy Cavaliers. I wonder how the Chevy boys will react.
If anything, I'd like to be able to stop when I need to (with as many idiots as there are on the roads these days, I think it's pretty vital to be able to stop). It's not only important to cars, and in fact, it is more important to trucks because they haul weight. Your trucks momentum increases significantly when you haul things, and the truck becomes a cannon ball, for the simplicity sake. If you rearend/hit someone, they will suffer much higher damage compared to being hit by an empty truck. I can attest to the stopping problems, having towed a 3K trailer with my old Blazer S10. The truck braked like a drunk teenager at a slumber party, and the braking distance effectively increased by 100%.
Stopping distance of a vehicle is a direct indication of how well the brakes perform. If thats not important to you, let me know when you are going to be driving through Texas, so I can avoid the highway alltogether.
Yes, there was a word "injury" mentioned, in a context that "it was possible to be injured". Well, it's called an car accident, and you get injured anyway (after you have a car wreck, go to a chiropractor or your family doctor and ask them to take an Xray of your neck and spine, and enjoy what you see there).
However, how about this: cabin in Silverado practically collapsed : "TOP RIGHT: The dummy's position in relation to the steering wheel and instrument panel after the crash test indicates the driver's survival space wasn't maintained well." and Tundra's cabin held together.
Also, dropping a head below the window sill is bad. Thats a guaranteed neck injury right there.
I mean, what are you arguying about?
Silverado: overall Marginal , because of the collapsing cage and the restraints not working.
Tundra: overall Good, with only the left foot placed in danger.
Is that open to interpretation? Would you rather be trapped in a collapsed cage, with your head caught underneath the steering wheel (I don't know whether this happens on Chevys or not, but grill guards, that every second or third Chevy has here in Austin, actually prevent airbags from going off. Which means that picture with the head dropping into the airbag right against the steering wheel becomes the head smacking solidly into the steering wheel), or have your left leg broken? If thats the case, I'd take a chance with having the leg broken. Legs can heal, necks don't.
At any rate, I would think the Toyota was rated higher than the Chevy because its passenger compartment held together so well. In fact, the doors even worked after the impact! Why don't you go back and look at those pictures (especially the F-150 - YIKES) and HONESTLY tell me which truck you'd rather be in an accident with - one that folds like a pancake like the domestics or one that stays together.
Maybe the folks conducting the test realized the importance of a non-collapsing passenger compartment. Apparently, you do not.
Being that the domestics are "full size" and heavy duty and all that nonsense, why didn't they stay together better than the "tin-can mini-truck" Toyotas?
obyone, I'm sure the foks conducting the crash test analyzed the results in much more depth that you (afterall, you weren't even there!). They concluded the Toyota was the safest by a wide margin. Toyota = Good, Chevy = marginal. Why do you have to complicate things?
Anyway.....why isnt Mazda B-series in the top 88% of the trucks sold? If the domestics offer so much to the consumers at such a great, the Mazda Ranger should also sell quite well. Why isnt a Tribute a bestseller, along with the Escape?
Tires are where the rubber meets the road. Nobody has ever argued that oem Firestones are superior to the Dunlops used by the Tundra.
You get some rain in Texas, right? Wet braking performance is rarely evaluated. As Obyone pointed out, soaked drums don't stop very well. And without abs to sense wheel slip, you're much more likely to loop it on those rain slicked, iced over highways in the Texas panhandle. I've seen it happen!
The MARINES have Hummers !
Just a thought...............
ABS is a luxury item. It is designed to simplify the driving for soccer moms so they don't have to pump the brakes while they are chatting on the cellphone and watching the kids in the back seat.
I pumped the brakes in my Chevy, I pumped the brakes in my Chrysler, I pump the brakes in my Tacoma. My mom does the same thing on her 2001 Chrysler van (even though it has ABS). My stepdad does the same thing on his 626 Mazda (even though it has ABS). Anyone can do it, but it's one of those things that general public loves because it simplifies driving for them, and they can sue the automaker later if the ABS does not work in the rain.
The combo of tires and brakes is what stops the truck. If Ford stops longer in dry conditions, what are the chances that it will miraculously stop shorter in rain? Slim. A smart driver will not slam the brakes and burn rubber (I'm guilty of doing that once, as soon as I heard the tires lock up, I pumped them, however). This is not a "Soccer-Mom Chevy Suburban driving" forum, people in this forum here drive (big) trucks, so it can be more or less assumed that they are more knowledgeable about cars and trucks, they know how to drive cars.
I think the point has been made: brakes are for stopping, and the Tundra stops quicker than the Chevy. Case closed.
And there's no sense arguing that drums stop as well in the wet. They don't. And there's no sense arguing you can pump the brakes faster than abs, because you can't. The next tindra will have 4 wheel abs discs, like the Sequoia.
Are you saying your Chevy stops faster than the Tundra if there's water on the roads? Do you have something that can back up your words?
Right, I didn't think so.
And let's not mention what Edmunds thought of your beloved disk brakes on the Sierra. You know, premature ABS activation over every bump resulting in increased stopping distances? That one tester who almost plowed into another vehicle because that stupid truck (with the self-destructing falling-apart interior, leaking transfer case, misaligned doors, engine that missed, shaking steering column etc.) wouldn't stop? Yeah, I sure wish Toyota would put brakes like those on their trucks.
I thought you might know about this since you mentioned throttle induced oversteer. LOL!
>And let's not mention what Edmunds thought of your beloved disk brakes on the Sierra. You know, premature ABS activation over every bump resulting in increased stopping distances?<
They could be as guilty as you for forgetting that stopping distance is only one parameter of braking performance. How about stopping shorter in your own lane? Think that matters?
Take a look sometime at the filthy rims on the front of tindra. (Your truck too?) Why do you think they have that grimy layer of black splooge? Brake dust? Now look at the rims on a late model Sierra or Silverado. No mung. Could it be the 100,000 mile pad life? Full size rotors? Better cooling? All of the above? There's more to brake performance than a few feet shorter in a magazine panic stops on dry pavement, with sticker Dunlops.
You tindra lovers crow about Insurance Institute for Highway safety giving high marks for tindra offset barrier crash. But don't insurance companies give you a discount if your vehicle has anti-lock brakes? Mine does! What do they know?
Something that's really important to consider when looking at crash test "ratings" is relativity. So a Ford Taurus gets 5 stars and a Chevy truck gets 3. Well, both are creamed in the side by an 8 ton delivery truck. Which one has the higher likelihood of survival? TV commercials lead you to think that the Taurus' 5 star rating will have you fairing better in this scenario, but anyone who has ever watched a football game knows how the physics of that really work. Obviously, having more weight on your side of the collision offers a great advantage in safety.
Crash tests are conducted against stationary barriers. Well, that's fine and dandy, but really - how many of us who have had accidents ran into a concrete wall? Most accidents are with other vehicles and weight differences play a big factor.
Now that all of this is said, I find it amusing that the only two things the Toyota fans have to say about their trucks being better is crash test ratings and braking.
Well, I for one, prefer not to get in wrecks, so I consider that point almost moot. Definitely not going to let it trump utility - which is what a real truck owner would buy a truck for.
Another good point made by some people already is that tires affect braking. Toyota sends out their trucks with street tires and Chevy sends theirs out with all terrain tires. Of course the Toyota is going to stop faster on the street in a panic stop. But which one is going to stop me faster on a gravel road? Which one is not going to get stuck in a muddy field? Unless you change the tires on the Tundra to match those on the Chevy, there's not even a debate to be had. Those street tires will have you stuck and sliding all over the place in mud and on gravel. If you do change the tires on your Toyota - you have to spend that extra money and it will certainly lose its braking advantage.
Bottom line, there is no 'formidable' competition for American trucks. Nothing else is as rough and tough or as useful as they are - and that's why I buy them.