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I think the parchment is a little on the light side, but I haven't seen a gray interior in person so I have no opinion there.
Touring pkg is cool.
What are the views on the quality of the new Saab's ? I happen to have 3 individuals who work for me who drive late model Saab's and they all have indicated that they've had a nbr of issues (e.g. failed turbos, broken door hinges, broken trim and interior pieces, etc, etc) w/their cars & that while they have been readily fixed under Warranty, they concern me over the long term. I know that the older Saab turbos were problematic, but does anyone have a sense as to whether the turbos on the '03 cars can reasonably be expected to last for the life of the vehicle w/proper maintenance ?
Also, given that neither IIHS nor NHTSA crash test ratings are available for the new 9-3 yet, is it really realistic to expect that the Saab will be significantly safer in a crash than a modern Japanese car such as the Mazda6 ?
Thanks
Thx
The Saab 9-3 is one of only 3 vehicles sold in the U.S. that has tested with a 5-star safety rating in the European crash tests. EuroNCAP's testing procedures and scoring system is more demanding than the U.S. IIHS and NHTSA tests. EuroNCAP uses the offset frontal crash test similar to IIHS's, as well as a side-impact test more advanced than what the NHTSA uses (e.g. they measure for head injury whereas NHTSA does not, and now routinely conduct a "pole test" to measure the effectiveness of side curtains or lack thereof).
Based on this, I have no worries about not having IIHS or NHTSA results for the 9-3.
http://www.euroncap.com/results.htm
and click "Large Family Cars"
I believe only 6 vehicles have achieved 5-stars in EuroNCAP. The other two sold in the U.S. are the pricier Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class, so the Saab is certainly doing something right!
Going beyond crash tests, the Saab has excellent safety features and design. E.g. whiplash-reduction headrests (that IIHS has documented reduce injury).
So far no IIHS-tested Mazda has achieved even a basic "Good" rating in IIHS. Though the 6 may change that, but there's no way to be sure until the results come out.
Yes, I think the Saab probably performs better in collisions than the Mazda. Saab, like Volvo, has a really big emphasis on safety and does extensive internal crash testing and shapes their designs around them. The superb EuroNCAP result validates this.
The one we looked at was the S model (I think). 4 cyl Turbo. Is the turbo reliable? It reminded me of an American car for some reason. Not like a Volvo, more like an Oldsmobile.
I really liked the Mazda6, but the fit and finish were poor. Ditto on the Maxima SE. Both of those cars have great engines. The Mazda6 impressed me quite a bit. But it felt cheaply made. I tend to feel your car says a lot about you (even if what is saying isn't true). I think the Saab 9-3 gives off a better "message" than most cars, but especially the Mazda6. The Saab 9-3 looks more sporty and less like a "gangsta" car driven by some punk-[non-permissible content removed] kid. =8) And best of all, I paid way less than $30K for my car (and many thousands less than a BMW, but only tiny bit more than a fully loaded Mazda6.)
Word.
My VERY favorite color is steel grey which noone seems to have with my desired options. I'm considering waiting for a driver's package + touring package combo. Any thoughts? Wouldn't be able to get the car before the first week of April.
My current deal is pretty good (I think). $3500 down (that includes tax (8.25% here in NY), title & registration, a $1000 bank fee (just went up from $495 in NY) and around $900 cap cost reduction. My monthly is $324 (wanted to keep my monthly low).
This is a 36 month, 10K mile lease. List is $32,285, cost to me $28,316. Any ideas on how I could shave off a few bucks here, a few bucks there?
Thanks.
I think your color choice is the right one, I'd want the darker interior also.
As far as waiting, I wouldn't. I didn't see anything on the driver's pkg I couldn't do without.
If your deal is as I understand it above, I'd pull the trigger.
Good luck!
kyfdx
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I'd only be waiting for the the driver's package to get the steel grey.
kyfdx
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. Here is the info that you're looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear Sedan through Saab Financial Services Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00057 and 50%, respectively. In addition to this special lease money factor, Saab is providing $2,000 dealer cash on this model that bay be used to negotiate a lower capitalized cost.
hope this helps
kyfdx
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1. The car is designed that way, I did not notice that because I was in "honeymoon" with the car before, the 5th gear simply kicks in too early.
2. something's wrong with the turbo or the air intake? I am not familiar with the way turbo work, but I never noticed that the turbo would redline that often?
3. something's broken with my transmission, causing it to upshift prematurely.
For all of you linear/auto owners, please pay attention everytime you are going from 45 to 55 and observe if the same thing happens and post your experience.
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For the Mazda, I was pretty hot on it ... until I drove the Saab. While I did enjoy the multiple 6 test drives I took, we're talking another class of car here. When you start looking at the cost of a loaded 6 vs. the 9-3, the choice becomes much more clear. Go drive the 9-3 and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Dion
Thanks in advance,
kyfdx
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kyfdx
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I am in the process of buying a 1999 Saab 9-3 SE 4 door hatch back.
Anyone have advice of what to look out for mechanically and otherwise?
I remember in the 80's everyone talked about problems with turbo's and "Coking". Is this still an issue or has the problem been resolved?
Any advice for turbo owners?
Anyone who owns this car care to reply with likes/dislikes, etc?
I value all feedback. Thank you in advance and have a great day!
Mike
Most websites qualify their quotes and mention that they may not have all regional charges, and prep charges too. The Saab advertising charge in the invoice varies from state to state. Some states don't have it. Seems that the prep fee is usually in there, though.
(Volvo 2 air fares.)Saab will pay for 1 or 2 night stay, ship the car back to the USA free. I save with the plane fair, the destination fee, and every thing but state taxes. The bottom line The Saab Vector list 37,800 I will pay 33,600 and no destination charges plus $1000 check. No hassle no bargining. Its Great and a great car. I CANT WAIT.
Only good if you plan on going over to Europe for a few months (or year) on business or whatever. I was going to do it, but ended up finding one here.
The cool part is you get a nice factory tour and what have you.
you for your trip.
In speaking with the salesman, he said that the lower hp for the linear was the result of only applying the turbo to 2 of the 4 cylinders and that the Arc/Vector had turbo on all 4 cylinders. My expectation was that the difference was in turbo pressure (even the Saab literature calls them low and high pressure turbos). I'm not too knowledgeable about engines but it wouldn't do to have 2 cylinders with turbo and 2 with normal aspiration.
The line of questioning was related to whether the linear could be chipped down the road similar to what I've been reading about VW/Audi's.
Any help? Thanks.
I doubt the 2-cylinder vs. 4-cylinder. The difference in power is accounted for the fact that they are different turbo units providing different levels of boost.
I'm sure there'll eventually be various upgrades available, but they'll fall short of simply having a bigger, higher-compression turbo.
The Garett turbo on the Linear puts out less boost than the Mitsubishi turbo used in the Arc and Vector. I don't recall what the exact figures are. But that isn't the only difference. I believe that the cylinder heads are different.
There is no way to convert the 2.0t to a 2.0T without changing some of the engine hardware. But the cost of doing that would likely be more than if you just bought an Arc or Vector to begin with.
The 2.0t puts out 175 horsepower with a low pressure Garrett GT20 turbo putting out .7 bar. The 2.0T puts out 210 Horsepower and uses a Mitsubishi TD04 high pressure turbo, at .85 Bar.
Different units, different pressures. Some have posted here that the head units on the 2.0T motors are different too, to handle the increased pressure.
Edmunds says that the TMV for a 2003 9-3 with Launch, automatic and metallic paint is $27,007.
Has anyone had any luck going lower?
Thanks!
On another note, has anyone spruced up their audio systems? I read the post about the 6x9's. I'm interested in whether I'd be able to put in an after-market amp and new speakers all around without major hassle.
54% @10,000 miles/year
53% @12,000 miles/year
52% @15,000 miles/year
Today I was quoted:
48% @ 15,000 miles/year
49% @ 12,000 miles/year
for a Vector. This is a big difference. Which one is right?
Is this just different for a Vector as opposed to a Linear / Arc?
A couple of impressions.
On the Minus side:
1) Although the seats generally have better side bolstering, there is still not quite enough in the Linear (but they are very comfortable).
2) You either feel like you are sitting very low, or the doors seem to be quite too high.
3) The cowl is also very high, making it virtually impossible to see the front corners of the car.
4) The overall quality of materials seems to be downgraded somewhat from the previous car. Makes one wonder about wearability, creaks and rattles several years from now.
5) Although the shifter feels better than the previous 9-3, it is still slightly isolated (in that cable linkage kind-of-way) in comparison to my WRX.
6) The car comes with the basic On-Star system for the first year...but...for whatever reason, if you lock yourself out, it can't open the doors remotely on the 9-3 as it can on virtually every other car.
7) There is no dead pedal.
On the Plus side:
1) The torque band is broad and quite useable. With 195 foot pounds of torque available at 2,500 rpm, the car seems faster than its 175 hp and 3,175 pounds would lead you to believe.
2) Where the previous 9-3 SE had copious amounts of torque steer when pushed hard off the line, it has been virtually eliminated from this car.
3) The car holds a corner well. The previous car's center of gravity was very high. This car is an overall much better driving car.
4) The brakes are fantastic!!
5) Although no hatchback, the rear seatbacks do fold down (60/40).
6) You no longer have the put it in reverse when you shut it down and remove the key.
7) More electronic controls and airbags should make it a safer car overall (although my insurance did not reflect any decrease in premium).
8) This engine requires unleaded fuel vs. the premium of my previous 9-3 SE.
9) The first three year's routine maintenance costs are included. Given that I just spent $175 for a 15K service on my WRX, it can make this car very inexpensive to own.
10) Generally a lot more fun to drive than the previous 9-3. We like the fact that this is a "sport sedan" vs. some pseudo-luxury mobile. I would say that it has 80% of the sensation of driving a 3 series (who knows, maybe the Vector would be a better match).
11) They did a great job on re-styling the car. It is truly one of the best looking cars on the road today.
Overall
Very satisfied so far. Our dealer was General Sales in West Chester, PA. A very nice experience, the 82 year old owner even gave my wife a bouquet of flowers when we picked up the car.
The Saab dealer I'm working with faxed me SFSC's "March 2003 Saab Promotional Lease Program for 2003 Models" since I kept hearing so many different numbers on money factors and residuals. I'll outline what that document says about the 2003 9-3 Vector.
For a 15k mile / year lease, the residuals are as follows: 24 mos, 54%; 30 mos, 49%; 36 mos, 48%; 42 mos, 44%; 48 mos, 41%; 60 mos, 33%.
My understanding (for the Linear at least) is that these numbers are increased by 1 percentage point if the mileage per year is decreased to 12k.
As far as money factors are concerned, this says that for 24, 30, and 36 month terms, the MF is .00108. For 42 and 48 month terms, the MF is .00140. For 60 months, the MF is .00288.
The document also states that the maximum dealer markup for promotional rates (all the ones that aren't .00288) is .00040, and .00167 on the standard rate.
And the last pertinent thing I notice here is that waiving the security deposit requires an increase of .00015 to the money factor.
Bear in mind that all of this is only valid through the end of March.
Hope that helps!
Are you finding that they will apply the $2000 cash back to go "below" the invoice price of the car as the cap cost?
I'm pretty sure that's true. When I've asked my dealer to give me quotes, I've told him to not include the lease support numbers, and he's quoted me numbers that were not $2k over invoice. So I'm assuming I can negotiate him to a few hundred over invoice and then get the $2k off.
He wants to make $500 off the deal, and I noticed there's a $195 "Administration Fee", but my goal is to get him to $200 over invoice, total. We'll see how that goes.
FYI, I'm actually ordering a 9-3 Linear sedan.
- Shafjac
I have been all over the place as far as test driving cars the last few months. I am currently driving an Audi TT but the practical reality of being with child has made my beloved vehicle untenable. Finances aren't as great lately either, so I had narrowed my research down to a Mazda 6 and a VW Passat GLX V6. Actually, I ordered the 6, but they called 6 weeks later to tell me my order had disappeared--and I felt somewhat relieved. The 6 drives great, but it felt a bit tinny and the lack of safety reviews worried me. Meanwhile, the Passat has a great looking interior and handled very well. But the low residual value on my TT has embittered me towards VWs in general.
So I have negotiated a lease deal on the Saab 9-3 Linear. The car handled great. My only wish is that the interior were a bit nicer (we also had a 325XI that we recently sold due to those financial downswings and I really liked the BMW's interior). The safety ratings of the Saab, however, were a powerfully favorable benefit.
My deal:
9-3 Linear Manual (Black).
Driver's Pkg.
Touring Pkg.
Wheel Sport Pkg.
Heated Seats.
Sunroof.
MSRP: $31,340. (it may be a bit higher--not seen car's sticker).
Invoice: $29,744.
Cap Cost: $28,244.
$2,000 down payment, including 4% sales tax (VA).
Net Cap Cost: $26,244.
Money factor: .00072 (a bit higher than the adv. .00057 b/c 12,000 mi/ year).
Residual: 51%.
36 m/12k mi/year.
Monthly payment: $368.
They have to dx the car, so I don't have it yet. Basically, I agreed to give them $500 over invoice, in return for all of the $2000 dealer incentive money, for a net $1500 under invoice. I wanted to get $200-300 over invoice, but there aren't a lot of Saab dealers around, and I didn't want to play a real hardball, high pressure game which would have required multiple trips to various dealerships. Instead, it took 10 minutes to negotiate the deal (name of dealership is VOB Saab in Rockville MD).
Hope this helps.
I noticed a post above asking about residual values--it's apparent that the dealers have a bit of room to negotiate on that. But they should give you the full $2000 dealer money.
LBnova