Volvo XC90 SUV

kullenberg

watch it with the elderly!! LOL I'm 66, and don't particularly like them, primarily because our summer visitors (read Florida) haven't got the sense or courtesy to dim them. Come to think of it, most of them are ELDERLY also!
Cheers
Pat

eandylee

Acura's HID bothers me

crikey

no offence intended...but it makes sense that the elderly would be most bothered by HIDs. I did not know that HIDs can be dimmed, unless most of the visitors are on high beams al the time

BTW, I'm a Canadian (from Toronto) transplant that currently lives in the Central Florida area. Small world...

kullenberg

There was never an offense taken. Speaking of Florida, and it's drivers; we have a name for them here in the mtns of NC. We call them "Half Backs". Most of them are retirees from the NYC area, who retired to Fla, and found it too hot in the summer, so they come to our mtns in the summer, thus they came "half way back" The truth is most of them never had to drive in NYC, so those skills were never utilized until they retired. We have them using turnsignals on hairpin turns, or not using them at all, or riding the brakes all the way uphill - it's something to see.! Speaking of dimming HID lites; in actual fact they can't be dimmed (most of them), the angle of the reflector is changed, when bright or dim is selected. That's why the auto levelingg is so important.
Cheers
Pat

ladbrandy

and I have my deposit down. Havent heard from the dealer yet with any news.
Are the people with 3 small children going to put them in the 3rd row or will you do 3 carseats across the 2nd row?
I am planning to do 3 across the 2nd row.

So do people think the x plan will discount the xc90 about $4000?

Karen

stickguy

how exactly do you find out if you are eligible (that is, does it extend to your company). Just curious, because my firm handles some HR outsourcing work of Ford plans.

Never know when it might come in handy.

reichowjr

I purchased an S60 2.4 T in May and saved approximately $4000 off retail under the A plan. I believe with a loaded XC 90 your estimate of a 4,000 discount with the X plan should be close.

I have two young kids and one on the way. The three rows of seats should work well.

competitor2

Forbes.com has the most comprehensive drive impression that I have seen to date and states ... Best New Luxury SUV. Here is the link.

http://www.forbes.com/2002/08/19/0819feat.html

crikey

"Half Backs", funny... So, you get a lot of New Yorkers too, huh. Yeah, they seem to come down here to Florida first, did not know they went back up, well at least, half up. Hopefully, their driving skills were not acquired from Florida as it seems this state has the worst drivers in the US. Turn-signals? Those things seem like an option on most cars here as nobody uses them. Thanks for informing me about the HID dimming.

Haven't been to NC, my wife has been dying to go to the Biltmore Estate and to check out the furniture stores. Hopefully, one of these days when the Twins are a bit older.

crikey

ladbrandy, when you placed your downpayment, did your dealer agree to sell the XC90 at X-Plan price?

If I had 3 kids in child seats, I would put them all across the 2nd row.

stickguy, you might have to inquire with your HR department as there is a code that you need to get the PIN.

reichowjr

The sales manager at my local dealer advised the XC 90 would not be eligible for the A plan for the first run Nov/Dec and would not take a deposit from me. He indicated it would be allowed for the second run starting in Jan and would be able to take a deposit at that time. The second run would have the DVD entertainment package priced at $1995. The current production is running slower than anticipated.

Has anyone else been advised regarding A plan. Ladbrandy what were the terms for your X plan deposit?

obiwankenobe

I inquired and was told spring for A plan by two US dealers and June/July by two canadian dealers.
Also I was told that the navigation system will not be available till atleast spring, I plan to wait for that.
Also night vision will be in next model year. Some problem with the manufacturer.

crikey

That's what my dealer said too, i.e. that A/X Plan pricing would not be available until next year (hopefully, early next year).

reichowjr, the DVD system will be almost $2000.00! Wow, that's a lot of moola. I guess it would take advantage of the Dolby Pro Logic II but $2000, I think it's way too much. I might have to settle for a portable DVD system instead. Hopefully, the Alpine system would allow Dolby Digital Inputs, optical, if possible.

obiwan, night vision would be great, i think. this feature might make the need for HIDs not as critical, but still desirable.

I'm still miffed that one cannot get HIDs without the Climate Package.

ktoled

Are the percentages differnet or similar and what's the average dollar savings

crikey

...that A-Plan is internally known as the Ford employee's price (A-Plan price = invoice price?) The X-Plan is for business associates, i.e. suppliers, etc. So, the X-Plan price is a derivative of the A-Plan price, it seems.

For example, the X-Plan price for Volvo products is A-Plan price + 2%. Hope that helps.

ktoled

Do you have an idea what the percentage would be off the MSRP

crikey

Well, if A-Plan = invoice price, then one can get an idea how many % off MSRP that would be given the two figures. And X-Plan would be 2% more than A-Plan.

jr1201

I got a call from my volvo dealer today that pricing for overseas delivery was available. He told me there is no discount off MSRP, only roundtrip airfare. I had already put a deposit down for the overseas delivery program (trying to be one of the first fifty)and find this news very disappointing. The program did almost seem to good to be true, and Volvo has now proved it. It looks like the Avaitor and the MDX will move to the top of my list

crikey

I can't say I'm surprised. Volvo is banking on this vehicle to be a hot seller. Most of their vehicles have not been selling well and pricing them attractively for overseas delivery was an incentive for the program.

Same goes for the X-Plan, right now, dealers are saying that they may honor the X-Plan price in early 2003. Their stories could change once the XC90 starts selling out.

crikey

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/

The review mentions Transmissions are still in transition. At launch, the diesel and 210bhp petrol came with a 5-speed Geartronic automatic which allows you to select the ratios yourself. The 272bhp T6 came with a 4-speed autobox and an ECU chipped to limit power in 1st and 2nd to avoid transmission damage. Soon this box will be replaced by a new, tougher 6-speed auto...

Hmmm...this makes it worthwhile to wait another model year, maybe 2004, and see if the T6 tranny changes. I, for one, am hoping for the change.

sailing216

Not sure if it's been posted, but the reason the T6 is a 4-speed auto instead of a 5 or 6 speed auto is it was so tight of a fit to get the T6 in, they had to throw on a different Tranny. Stick with the T5 IMO and get the car chipped to T6 levels for $500 (chipping post about 15 above). Can you say tranny concerns first model year.

Good review. hmmmm, they have 6-speed Manual T5 listed. Wonder if it'll come over here? Wait a year, bugs gone for the most part, and the 6-speed is introduced...

reichowjr

Check out the latest issue of Motor Trend for another positive XC 90 review.

motormann

I have been in contact with two Volvo dealers in the Detroit Area, and got a message back yesterday from one confirming that they will not honor X or A plan pricing until the "second run" set to deliver in February.

While this is a new vehicle launch where you would expect dealers to go for top dollar, it is disappointing learning from the board here that some equipment is not available on the first run, and that "band-aids" are being applied to get the car launched (i.e., the 4 spd auto on the T-6).

My wife and I have a deposit down at a different dealer for one of the "first run" vehicles due in November, but with the info offered here plus knowing we will be paying top dollar for a $47,000 vehicle not exactly the way we want it, I think we may be cancelling on this one.

Thanks everyone for the info offered here.

reichowjr

Can we assume the GM 4 speed auto being used in the T6 is just for the first run or for the entire 03 model run. I for one would prefer the 6 speed auto.

Has anyone else found additional information other than that from post # 220 regarding the introduction of a 6 speed auto?

crikey

The XC90 getting a 6-speed auto is pure rumor right now. Honest John's review seems logical, if, in fact, the ECU of the XC90 is currently set to limit power and avoid tranny damage. The engine would, then, really need a better tranny.

If one's heart is set on the XC90 for this model year, by all means, please buy one. With regards to the 6-speed auto, pay attention to changes coming for the S80 since the T6 in the XC90 was from the S80. If the S80 gets a 6-speed tranny, chances are that the XC90 will get the tranny also. Well, that is, if it fits in the engine bay.

I, for one, have no immediate need for a vehicle to replace my 2-year old, 16,500 mile, hardly-used Pathfinder. I can wait another year to see how things pan out. Although, a new XC90 around late spring would make for a good birthday gift.

My dealer also told me that X-Plan will be honored around January or February. However, this could all change if XC90 demand exceeds supply.

crikey

...does not really provide definitive driving impressions of the 2 engines. Motor Trend mentions that the 2.5T is an OK motor for suburbian driving but huffs and puffs in the passing lanes on the highway. As horsepower hungry as they are, of course, the T6 is their obvious motor choice. However, they do not really point out anything positive/negative about both engines.

The C&D review is a bit more vague. I will wait for a more comprehensive road test.

wmquan

Has any review posted clocked passing times, e.g. 50-70, 60-80? Usually those are pretty good in assessing passing power.

Both engines seem to be tuned to produce a good amount of torque at low RPM's, so Volvo has paid some attention to issues of power in a ~4400 lb vehicle.

Anyone know how heavy the T6 is? I noticed that Volvo's site only gives the weight of the 5-banger.

gmark2000

I presently have a C$2000 deposit at the local Oakville, Ontario dealership. They gave me all the pricing information for the two models and the options/packages. However, they didn't have any information on the accessories and pricing thereof.

I found the accessory info on the U.S. site but I was astonished at the pricing for the towing hitches.

I primarily want a tow hitch for a folding bike rack. I 'may' want to tow something in the future but nothing really heavy like a boat or an RV trailer - more likely a utility trailer (rental) or a tent trailer.

So... Can I get away with buying an aftermarket hitch from a car-parts store (Reese, etc...)??

As well, are there third party aftermarket manufacturers for fitted cargo mats and brush bars (grille cages à la Landrover Discovery) that have the XC 90 in mind??

Thanks people...

Gary
Oakville, Ontario

crikey

Yeah, it seems the US site doesn't specify the T6 curb weight. I can't find anything that indicates its curb weight.

crikey

Since the sound system will have Dolby Pro Logic II, I wonder if the system will allow external inputs for, say, a portable DVD player that transmits DTS and Dolby Digital sound. Does anyone have any insight on this?

crikey

Well, it seems that the 2003 Jaguar S-Type is now using the ZF Friedrichshafen AG 6-HP-26 6-speed automatic transmission, the same transmission that debuted on the E66 7-Series.

ZF says that this new 6-speed automatic transmissions is lighter, more compact, and more economical than their 5-speed version. It uses 30 percent fewer components than standard 5-speed automatic transmissions.

Since Ford owns both Jaguar and Volvo, it could be possible that this 6-speed tranny can make its way to the XC90 & S80.

A bit more info about the tranny can be found here.

crikey

MotorWeek #2204
With Host John Davis
PBS Broadcast Window Begins September 27, 2002

Roadtest of the 2003 Volvo XC90
Roadtest of the 2002 Mini Cooper S

kullenberg

Something to keep in mind is the effect of altitude on HP. A normally aspirated engine will lose approx 10% power for each 1000' gain in altitude. My ML 430, for instance, is rated at 268HP at sea level ( I forget at what RPM), when I get up to where I live at 5000+ ft. it's down to approx 158 HP. That's a signifigant loss, which BTW, you won't suffer with either of the XC90 engines. The turbos make the eng perform much the same as at sea level. Food for thought. I posted this thought on another XC90 forum (which shall remain nameless), and thought it was worth posting here. It makes the XC90 all the more desirable, and sort of negates all the stuff about the 4sp, 5sp, 6sp tranny.

pf01

The 10 percent loss of power every 1000 feet seems a little bit drastic to me. Imagine all the troubles American military vehicle crews would get into in Afghanistan. Maybe it is every 1000 meters? BTW, the new military "Heavy Equipment Transporter", which is used to carry something like the 60 ton M1 tank, does have turbo engines. The above post also reminds me that all the modern aviation engines are turbo-charged, so reliability should not be a major issue - if we can assume that the operation of aviation engine is similar enough to vehicle engine. Besides the advantage of keeping power in high altitude and compactness(a V8 probably does not fit in the engine bay of XC90}, are there any other advantages of turbo engine? Does turbo engine run as smooth as normal engine?

greenlatern

Many moons ago I searched the web to understand the effects of altitude on a car's engine and it seemed that the general rule of thumb was about 3% per 1000 ft. Turbos do a nice job of delivering extra power (same for superchargers) while still being reasonably economical. While "there's no replacement for displacement" big engines are thirsty engines.

Twin turbos are generally pretty smooth as they deliver boost across the torque curve. Single turbos generally deliver at the high end (hence "turbo lag"). The only downside to turbos is they tend to run a lot hotter than normally aspirated engines.

It'd be nice if Edmunds' Liz Kim would drop by and offer up a performance perspective of the XC90 relative to the X5 (since she's written about both in the last 30 days).

crikey

In the 'driven' section of the UK Car magazine EVO, they tested the XC90. I'll put some of the more notable quips from it about the 4-speed tranny:

That traverse engine may mean plenty of cabin real estate but it also steals so much space between the front wheels that there was only enough room to fit the T6 with a gappy four-speed auto 'box which struggles against the size and weight of this car. The engine constantly kicks down out of fourth to compensate, even on the motorway, to the detriment of fuel consumption, which averaged a sobering 14-15mpg during our test. Couple that with a mean 72-litre tank and the range becomes a pathetic 200 miles...Engineers admit the T6 'box is a problem and a six-speeder in under development for launch late next year.

A new tranny with an extra cog or two should definitely help fuel economy. Well, at least it should.

The drawback is that a new tranny brings about new problems. Hopefully, the XC90 bucks the trend and will be problem-free (yes, that's wishful thinking).

booklaw

Dealers are starting to take deposits in the states and are able to quote prices since they are posted on volvos web site. Unfortunately, they are offering essentially NO INFO ON LEASING. I am very interested in the car, but based on my research, won't be able to actually get one till late Nov or Dec (which is 1-2 months after my current lease expires) and that is only if you are very aggressive w/ the dealers, leave a deposit etc. While I might be willing to make arrangements and wait, I ertainly need an idea of what the lease will be. I want a T6 loaded w/ most features (but the navigation). Dealers have been useless. Now I'm not expecting a bargain (since the car is brand new and very HOT), but I don't want them giving me the kind of number that make it prohibitive. I'm starting to worry that they will give me a monthly premium that will compete with a BMW 7 series. Does anyone know how I can get an accurate fix on this. The car should retail for approx $44-45,000. THANX

crikey

I heard that the XC90 will, most likely, retain 55 percent of its original value after three years/60,000 miles (but the ALG would set the final residual value %age). So, from that, the residual value can be obtained.

You can use Edmund's formula for calculating lease payments:

1. MSRP Price of the car + options

2. Times the residual value percentage (55%)

3. Equals the residual value

4. Negotiated Purchase price of car minus incentives (net capitalized cost) (figure full MSRP)

5. Minus the residual (From line 3)

6. Equals the depreciation over 36 months

7. Depreciation (Line 6) divided by term in months ÷ 36

8. Equals the monthly depreciation payment

9. Net capitalized cost (From line 4)

10. Plus the residual (From line 3)

11. Equals

12. Times the money factor (assume around 6 or 7%)

13. Equals money factor payment portion

14. Monthly depreciation payment (from line 8)
15. Plus money factor payment portion (from line 12)

16. Equals bottom-line monthly lease payment

You have to add taxes on the amount given by #16.

You can also use http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm to get a better idea how much the lease will come out to -- 55% residual value and a money factor of 6 to 7% (.0025 to .00292)

sune2828

I got an invite to test drive the XC90 at Alameda point in SFO next month. According to the website there are similar opportunities in Chicago and Southern California as well. Here's the link:
www.volvocars.com/xc90drive

jqcp

Plunked down my deposit (1000.00) and ordered the T6 model with a few extras (versaltility/security. Dealer said going for MSRP which was no suprise so it came to 43400.
I questioned him on the 4 spd with the turbo and also X-plan pricing. He had a lame excuse for the transmission question and well the X plan isn't available due to the supply and demand principle. Probably not the next release either. After reading some posts here I'm debating whether to really buy the first ones out the door or wait and see the first reports back. I guess I have a better feel at Alameda test drive.

crikey

Guys, please report back on how your testdrives went. Thanks.

Regarding the X-Plan, I will have to agree that supply and demand in one's geographic location will dictate availability. I think the demand for luxury SUVs like the XC90 or the MDX are bit softer in my area than most of the country. As a matter of fact, the MDX sells here below MSRP (about $500 to $1000, depending on how well you negotiate), while it is way above MSRP in the northeast, i.e. NY and NJ areas. So, this will work in my benefit.

If one has doubts regarding first year reliability, I would suggest erring on the safe side and wait for the next model year. That is, if one can wait. Rumors of a 6-speed auto for the T6 are pretty strong.

latoure

ALthough I love the vehicle and all of its features, the one which really got me excited because of the new technoiclogy aspect was the night vision.
After enthusiastically asking a few of the Volvo reps and Volvo corporate about the feature, I have come to find that Volvo has CANCELLED this feature. They say the manufacturer went out of business.

Hmmm Im not sure I buy into that. Most large car manufacturers have 2nd source suppliers for most of their parts and components as to not run into supply problems down the line.

Im very dissapointed in Volvo for putting this feature in their final brochures and then cancelling a MAJOR safety feature/breakthrough such as this.

Cadillac has this features and claims to be the only Auto manufacturer to have it. bar none.

So...the mytery really remains as to what REALLY is the story with Night Vision.

Hopefully its not like Gun control where our government has stepped in and forbidden Auto manufacturers to carry infrared technology to see heat signaturs at night.

It seems that the govt. only wants to have this sort of technology for themselves.

If anyone knows the REAL story on this, please comment.

jqcp

Anyone know what financing thru Volvo is like? I hear talk of low rates but I won't count on it

dougus

Does anybody know what the black panel on the roof is for? It's between the roof rack and tailgate. I saw my first XC90 yesterday (on display at Bloomingdale's Stanford CA) and still can't figure it out. By the way, if you like the way it looks in the pictures, just wait until you see the real thing!

There's a good XC90 article in the October Car and Driver magazine. They list the T6's curb weight at 4600 lbs.

Can't wait for the Alameda Driving Experience!

porknbeans

Just signed up for Chicago on October 5th. Driving down from Madison, anybody want to carpool?

ken125

I've looked in all of the literature, but the Gross Vehicle Weight is nowhere to be found.
What's most important is whether the GVW is over 6,000 lbs. (for tax purposes, this makes it a truck). Has anyone seen the door sticker?

jqcp

I don't know for sure but it could be one of those dealer installed options I was told about. They will install panels around the bottom and wheel wells, etc. Hated that look so didn't pay much attention. Might be nice if your hauling stuff on top.

volvomax

1 T6 Tranny
The 4 speed tranny in the T6 is the same one in the S80. Because of space constraints there is no other tranny in the world that will currently fit into the engine bay. The S-Type Jag has a longitudinal engine tranny combo, the XC90 is transversely mounted, so no other tranny, not even Volvo's own 5spd unit will fit.
The combination in the S80 works just fine, I have no doubt that it will perform adequately in the XC90
2 Black Roof Panel
This panel houses the vehicles antennae. Radio, Telematic, GPS etc.
3 Gross Vehicle Weight
Sorry but according to my sources at Volvo the XC90's rating will be below 6000lbs.
4 X-Plan
According to Volvo there will be no AZX plan pricing available from the Factory for at least the first allocation of vehicles. After that it will depend on the demand. If it is as anticipated don't look for any price breaks any time soon
4 Leasing
No one can tell you what the lease price will be because neither Volvo Finance nor the banks have given out rate and residual info yet.
I ahve heard that ALG will put the T6 residual for 36mo/12k-yr at 61%. Figure a money factor of .00320= 7.68%. Again no subvention because of it being a hot product. Chase may be your best bet, current money factor .00230= 5.52%. BUT you must have perfect spotless credit, whereas Volvo is more liberal in there credit policies.
5 Nightvision
Nightvision is on hold. Raytheon was the supplier, because they princpally supply GM there is a GM vs Ford turf war going on now. Volvo is working to find another supplier or have Ford bend to GM and get the cameras from Raytheon.
Figure nightvision for the end of the 03 model yr or beginning 04.
Hope this info helps,I've been w/ Volvo for 5yrs now.
Max

mdx2003

volvomax, can you address the initial quality for the xc90. People like me are trying to decide between the xc90 and mdx. The main concern I have is the first year model -- relility issue. The past models like the S80 has been poor. Why buy now instead of wait a year or buy something else i.e mdx.

dougus

Max, Thanks for all the answers!! Any word on which telematic services will be available in the US? Will Volvo offer the "On Call Plus" system for collision notification and roadside assistance requests?

I understand the XC90 is using the MOST fiber optic network for GPS and multimedia. Very cool.

Hope the GM vs. Ford turf war doesn't hurt Volvo's supply of 4 speed transmissions as it looks like that's the only one available for the 6 cylinder.