Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair

ndelc

I'm looking at buying a 2000 Honda Civic. It is in unbelievable condition (only 35,000 miles!), but it was involved in an accident in 2001. The seller showed me the repair receipt, and one of the items listed was "Frame/Unibody Repair and Setup" at a cost of $55.00. Is that anything to be concerned about? I got a Carfax report on it, and the accident is listed but under "Structural/Frame Damage Check" it says "no issues reported". I would guess that any frame damage would cost more than $55.00 to repair, wouldn't it? The entire repair bill came to about $1,200 and most of that was to repair the front bumper and headlight.

Thanks for any advice!

Mr_Shiftright

They probably put it on the frame machine and shot it with a laser to see if the unibody was bent. Obviously they didn't have to do much straighening by pulling. I'd guess it was all sheet metal work.

You can cause $1,200 damage on a modern car with a golf ball.

bobber1

I live in the Midwest and am planning on build a new garage with a radiant floor heating system. Does anybody know if heating a garage in the winter will cause your vehicle to rust quicker? I'm not planning on having the thing on all the time, but would like to turn it on when we have or real cold spells or when the snow and ice is built up in the wheel wells or when I'm in the dog house with my wife and need a sanctuary.

Is there a good temperature to keep your garage at? I was going to keep it as low as possible to save energy.

Mr_Shiftright

All you need to protect a car in a garage is air circulation. If your garage is so air tight that it cannot "breathe" (as a wooden garage does and a concrete one doesn't) then you might consider a small cheap fan under the car if the floor gathers moisture.

If you don't see any moisture on the floor, you're fine.

oldfarmer50

"...if heating a garage in winter will cause your vehicle to rust quicker?..."

I have heard that keeping the garage just above freezing is the worst for rust. It allows the salt encrusted slush that gets underneath to thaw and become active but doesn't warm it up enough to melt and and dry out.

I supose that if you never drove on salted roads in winter it would be OK.

oldfarmer50

On a whim I decided to put some wax on the roof of my old Chrysler (1997) to see if it would improve the somewhat dull and faded paint. To my surprise the wax just seemed to sink into the paint. No matter how much I hand buffed, the wax would not come to a shine. Now it looks like I put the wax on and forgot to buff it out, all white and swirls.

What the heck happened, and more important, what can I do now?

Mr_Shiftright

Probably a deteriorated clear coat is what you have.

oldfarmer50

"...deteriorated clear coat..."

I was afraid of something like that. Any cheap fixes? I was thinking of using a mild rubbing compound. Car is too old for a repaint.

Mr_Shiftright

I guess you could try a test spot but usually when the clear coat has curdled, there's not much to be done.

bigfur

$55 is about the going rate to put the car up on the rack and measure it. Maybe a light tug to realign the core support, but nothing major.

mspepper

I have a 2003 Mini Cooper and my back bumper got hit. Body shops say replace the bumper but a bumper specialist said they could repair the original because it's plastic; not cracked and holds its memory. I have to get a new chrome molding stirp (does anyone know where I could get one?) . Would appreciate any input.

Thanks

Mr_Shiftright

Well yeah they can repair them to look rather nice but one does wonder about the paint work and how durable it will be. I'm thinking that if they are the kind of operation that goes from dealer to dealer to do their bump work that maybe in 2-3 years that bumper might not look so good.

The molding strip is a dealer item I would guess.

laxne6

Anyone who can help. Just received my A6 3 months ago, it has the very dark green paint (almost looks black at a distance). A few days ago, my neighbor's kid scratched both sides with a rock (5 years old). I have taken it to 3 different body shops and have 2 stories. One side (the shop my neighbor knows) is telling me that they can wet-sand the scratches out. The other side (the 2 other body shops, one who is a distant friend) is telling me it needs to be painted. I have been told if you can feel with your finger nail, it needs to be painted. Most of the scratches can definitely be felt with my nail.

What should I do? What are the issues with having someone wet-sand the clear coat down (short term or long term)?

Please help!

Mr_Shiftright

Well if you wet-sand the clear coat, that part of the car is vulnerable to further deterioration. The paint under the clear coat is not shiny, it is rather dull. If the clear coat starts to shed, it's going to look awful underneath. You've seen this in older cars.

For a car this new there is really no other choice but to paint the panels if the scratches are that deep.

Put it another way: if a buffer won't get them out with a few minutes work, then that's your answer, for both you and your neighbor.

this is not a 7 year old Buick we are talking about here. If your paint deteriorates, you have suffered a major loss in value.

It's not much different than your kid spraying graffiti over the neighbors brand-new house and suggesting that we sand it off.

mspepper

Thank you for the information and your opinion. So all in all it's best to replace the dented bumper with a new one yes? I was trying to see if the repair was worth it since the person who hit my Mini was my sister :-(

Mr_Shiftright

Oh well your sister. Well then you have to balance family relations with resale value---this is a dark and fearsome place that mere Hosts cannot dare to go :P

I don't want your sister waving a $600--$700 repair bill in my face. I had my bumper repaired (BIG dent) and it looked fine one year later but....I guess if worst comes to worst you could have it repainted again.

oldfarmer50

Has anyone tried a paint touch-up product call "Dr. Colorchip"?

Saw an ad in autoweek recently. The claim is for good match on repaired paint chips and such. If it is to be believed you can get good results even if you have ten thumbs (like me).

Any opinions?

mspepper

..and the rest of the bumper story.....my sister backed into the corner of my mini bumper with her BMW....ouch :sick: ....and her bumper costs more than mine. Balancing family relations is key here. bumper repair here we come! I'll let you know how it comes out. Thanks again.

bigfur

Only way i can put it would be, if its that good they would use it in a body shop.

lupo55

I,d like to keep my car as long as possible. I know that bringing it in and out of a heated garage in winter is the not the best thing for body longevity. If i rustproof will it negate the effects of the using the garage, or should I simply park it outside and play it safe?

Mr_Shiftright

I still think air circulation is the key here, as well as underside car washes if you live in an area that uses road salts. I'd keep in indoors, sure. You've just got to control the moisture in the garage, and a fan will help. You could also add a drying agent to the trunk and interior, like they use in boats. You buy it in little pouches, or you pour the grainular powder into a little basket and it absorbs moisture. Any boat shop knows about this stuff.

allenjackson

Older vehicles had a switch, lever, or knob you could use to select it. Most vehicles today only recycle the interior air on MAX A/C, which is what your car is emulating - when it needs to cool down the interior quickly it engages max A/C mode, which recycles the interior until it can maintain the temperature with external air.

korniemd

I have a 1999 Honda Accord that the clear coat is flaking off and the paint below is deteriorating badly. Called Honda, they told me to take it to a dealer. Dealer said District Parts and Service Mgr had to take a look at it. Bottom line it will cost $1600 to repaint and Honda will contribute $500 toward that. They have all the excuses acid rain, sun etc but not their problem. This is a dark green car and now I am seeing a lot of them with this same problem. I asked Honda how significant a problem this is and was informed they don't keep any statistics on paint. Not a safety issue so who cares. Any recommendations? Car runs great but it is an embarassment to drive.

Mr_Shiftright

I'd take their offer for sure. And soon.

bigfur

DO IT!!! Dont think twice, take the money and repaint. Many cars over the years especially from GM and Ford have had this issue of clear coat de lamination. Of course the American companies said oh well its out of warranty your SOL. This is actually a common problem and it has very little to do with the environment.

jipster

Your car is 10 years old, wanting Honda to pay for a new paint job is a bit unrealistic. A new paint job for $1,100 sounds like a bargain.

oldfarmer50

I just finished polishing up my 12 year old headlights with one of those kits they sell in Pep Boys. I'm pretty pleased with the results but I have heard that after you have at those plastic lenses with all that sandpaper and polish you remove the UV resistant coating. The story goes that over the next few years the plastic will start to yellow from the sun's UV rays.

Is this true, and if so is there anything I can apply to stop the lenses from turning yellow?

jipster

The story goes that over the next few years the plastic will start to yellow from the sun's UV rays. ....is there anything I can apply....

You got any Coppertone or Hawaiian Tropic laying around? Preferrably something with a SP factor of at least 20. :shades:

oldfarmer50

"...Coppertone or Hawaiian Tropic..."

My, my, someone has an awful lot of time on his hands. :lemon:

obyone

Most car polishes offer UV protection. That being the case I'd apply a coat or two of whatever you have lying around every six months. Course Zaino would probably work best but I'm sure Turtle Wax or Mother's would do in this case.

Hawaiian Tropics would last maybe a day or two on the car not to mention make it smell like coconutz. :P

jipster

My, my, someone has an awful lot of time on his hands.

Egads... you're starting to sound like my wife. :sick:

But, since I actually do have a bit of time on my hands, I gave Autozone a call for you oldfarmer. The manager said the same thing that initially came to my mind, before the Coppertone idea... that is Armor-All Protectant. I asked if it would be harmful to the lense... he said it was good for plastics and would be fine. I thought there may be a specific product for that problem, but the manager at Autozone couldn't come up with anything. So, try a headlight with the Armor-All and one with the Zaino stuff, then check back here in about a year or two with the results.

oldfarmer50

"...you're starting to sound like my wife..."

Darn you, Jipster. You get me laughing so hard I forget what my original question was.

Thanks to you and oby. I'll try those items. Chances are that by the time I notice any yellowing, the headlights will be the only thing left of the car.

obyone

Aren't those former Kirby salespersons?

Unless armor all has improved on their formula, I'd take a second look at what it does to a person's dash before applying to anything else.

bigfur

Ok, now you two have me laughing my a**...er um butt off. Second comment would be did you ever think about calling a bone yard for a set of headlights off a wrecked car? Headlights are very easy to replace on most cars but it all depends on how much someone want for the headlights in the first place.

oldfarmer50

"...a set of headlights off a wrecked car?..."

The last year with compatible headlights would be a 2000 model which are likely to be almost as scratched as my 1997s. The $15 polishing kit did a very good job of restoring my originals (can't beat that price) and I just wanted to keep them looking good.

tankbeans

Hi. I was reading a post in another board about paint and washing the car. My question is this, I have a 2003 Accord LX Coupe and the paint, or at least the clear coat is peeling off. There is also a gouge in the paint on the back bumper. Would I be able to put a couple coats of wax on it, when it gets warm to prevent further peeling or would it be worth the money to have the bumper painted?

If it makes a difference my car is silver. Thank you for your help.

bvdj84

I love to detail and wax my car! Creating that shine!! Love it! It makes any car look that much more nice.

When I leased a new car last Spring, I later found swirl marks all over the car. I waxed it several times over the summer, using 2 different waxes. It did make the finish shiny, it did tame down the marks, but it seems as though the swirls are etched into the surface. Is my clear coat permanently damaged? I am assuming the car was swirled when the dealer had it washed with their mobile wash system. I found the car had been on the lot for awhile, according to the date on the car.

I had bought higher end wax, applicators, and it seems like I cannot get the swirls to go away. I am not sure how to approach this again in the spring. Though I have learned to live with the swirls, but why are they not going away.

I have noticed many new cars that sit on the lot for awhile seem to have more marks, I am not sure why the dealers think they need to use a brush on the car, they are just sitting, just a good detergent and pressure wash it good enough. I have seen expensive cars all marked up.

What can be done to get rid of them? I am sure others have had similar problems. There has to be something out there that will help them disappear. Or is it too far gone. Shouldn't the clear coat be fairly pliable?

Thanks!

tallman1

Wax isn't going to get rid of swirl marks. You need a polish for that. There are different grades of polish you can use, depending on how deep the swirl marks/scratches are.

bvdj84

See, I am slowly learning. So perhaps a strong polish will get rid of them?

thanks.

tallman1

So perhaps a strong polish will get rid of them?

Depends on how deep the scratches are. The stronger the polish, the more clear coat is removed too. Light swirl marks will come out with a mild polish.

bvdj84

Well, what kind of polish do people like? Mothers, Zymol, How do I know what grade of polish it is?

tallman1

That's a great question. The place I buy from has four grades, IIRC. There's a link on my CarSpace page. I'm not sure what stores offer but check out some of the car care places on the web and read the tutorials.

There are also folks in the biz that read this forum who know more than I do about the various products out there.

bigfur

For most fine swirl marks you can use a finish cut. Its a white almost milky looking polish that you can apply by had or in your case id probably use a machine. After using the finish cut you want to go back and use the wax again to protect the paint.

Mr_Shiftright

Hopefully doing this once in a great while is all that will be necessary. No matter how fine the polish, it is still abrasive. Every machine buffing means just a little less topcoat on your car.

obyone

Once the clear coat starts to peel there isn't much you can do. The paint will usually follow. A repaint would require stripping the paint down to bare metal (big bucks). Silver somehow seems to deteriorate the fastest for some reason. If the bumper is the only part of the car that's peeling I'd do a repaint.

obyone

It seems the swirls are impossible to eliminate? Using a regular polisher requires skill to polish a car. That's probably what happened at the dealership as an unskilled fella probably did your car. How to fix you ask?

You will need a Porter Cable 7424 dual action polisher. The dual action eliminates the worry of burning the paint. That along with some 3M rubbing compound from Checkers and you will be on your way to swirl free nirvana. Those light swirl removers will not work on something that an unskilled prep person left behind. Been there done that.

tankbeans

Thanks for the tip. Luckily it's only the bumper. There are a few minor dings on the hood and doors, but the paint isn't peeling luckily.

I've been thinking about bringing it to the local tech college to have them do it. All I'd pay for would be materials. Quality about the same as a shop, but a lot cheaper, they have some really good professionals as teachers.

bigfur

WHOA...slow down there obyne. At this point using the white final cut will be enough to get swirl marks out. 3M rubbing compound can very easily burn thru the clear coat and require a repaint of the panel. I would be very very careful of the rubbing compound unless you have experience with using it. Final cut is more forgiving and will clear up swirl marks. Rubbing compound eliminates larger scratches but leaves the swirl marks. General rule of thumb for paint finishes.
1. Rubbing compound (usually done after car is painted)
2. Finish cut.
3. Race Glaze

Once again i do not recommend using rubbing compound on paint if you are not used to using it. I personally have burned thru atleast two clear coats at the body shop i used to work at. (and yes the painter was P.O.ed at me)

obyone

Were you using a Porter Cable 7424 when you burned through the clear coat?

I've used that formula on my '05 Titan and '02 Denali when the dealer prep guys left scratches in the paint by dry wiping it.

I've recently used it on a '99 black C5 that I bought used from a guy who used to dry wipe his car everyday with a chamois. Needless to say there were a ton of scratches in the black paint more like spider webbing. The only way to remove 9 years of dry wiping was the rubbing compound. All those "light" swirl removers did nothing. Course the swirl marks left on tankbeans car could already be through the clearcoat. If a compound was used with a buffer there would be a good chance that burn through already exists.

The porter cable orbital buffer is designed not to burn through any clear coat unless you attach sandpaper to it. I also stated 3M and not the old turtle wax rubbing compound (one is liquid the other is paste). By the way if you attached sandpaper to the porter cable, it is a very good way to refinish marble.

prithis

I have a 2008 Honda Pilot. Last weekend I got sideswiped by another car. This caused a 6 inch dent on the right side of the vehicle, just inches away from the right tail light assembly.

The dent is about 6 inches in length and is elongated oval in shape. In addition there is a scratch mark in the dent where the paint had come off.

I took it to a body shop and got an estimate of $750 to fix it. In order to keep my insurance premium low I have a high deductible of $2000, so it will not be covered by insurance.

So I am looking for advice on a DIY project to fix this. Any advice would be appreciated.