Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't DIY with a new car like that. Bite the bullet is my advice. If you need to save up the scratch I suppose you could get a "Pop A Dent" guy to make it look better at least, temporarily, while you fill up that coffee can with quarters and save up to do it right.

obyone

Last weekend I got sideswiped by another car.

Does that mean the other driver was at fault?

tallman1

I assumed it was a hit and run and he didn't know who did the sideswiping. Just my guess though.

prithis

Yes, the other driver was at fault. He was also unlicensed and uninsured. When I called 911 the other driver was promptly arrested on the spot.

I went through the motions of getting a police report which clearly indicates that the other driver is at fault and that he got citations for driving without license, insurance and driving recklessly.

I spoke to my insurance company, but since the estimate to fix it is lower than my deductible, they will not cover it.

cabover30

I have a couple of questions for the forum.

My son has a 2004 GMC Sierra reg cab that got broken into two nights ago. They gained entry by popped the drivers side door lock into the interior of the door.

So the first question I have is how hard is it to take off the inside panel of the door to retrieve the lock and is the lock any good anymore?

The second question I have is if the factory alarm system had been set properly (it got turned off accidentally) would it have gone off? If it would have alarmed, how did the thief know it was off?

Mr_Shiftright

I doubt the lock is good anymore. Have you carefully examined the outside of the door. Sometimes they actually cut the lock out--that is, enlarge the hole in the door itself.

Professional thieves don't care about alarms. Alarms are pretty much a waste of money IMO, They only discourage the most amateurish of thieves/vandals and are more suited to preventing theft of the entire car rather than anything within it. The pros can smash and grab before anybody can blink their eyes. Speed is their ally and your alarm does not deter them. If a professional thief wants your entire car, even chaining it to the street light will not stop them. C'est la vie.

If you want to tackle this job yourself, I'd suggest you subscribe to www.alldatadiy.com and get instructions on removing the panel and extracting the bits and pieces of the lock. Or if this seems intimidating, have a professional locksmith take care of it for you. Doesn't your insurance cover any of this?

You might also check your public library for a workshop manual, or eBay is often a good source for an instruction book. Don't by the CD, get a printed book.

obyone

Agreed. I doubt the the lock is any good at this point. You will need a locksmith to rekey the new cylinder plus I suspect there will be some minor body work where the door lock got punched in. As far as removing the door panel it's not difficult. Remove couple of screws, lift and pull off. If you need the exact location of the screws, post here and I'll look it up. If memory serves me correctly there are only two or three max screws to remove.

bigfur

Odds are you wont be able to get the lock back in the door. The thief in order to get the lock into the door would have had to make the hole bigger which means it wont fit now. The alarm wont go off unless it was locked with the key fob and unlocked from the inside lock slide. The thief used the rod in the door to fool the system into thinking it was a key that opened the door, Thats why it didnt go off.

mvaussies

I'm looking for a fairly simple way to fix for (future rust reasons) a smallish dent/scratch not my door. I keep my vehicles for awhile. It is not too bad, & the thing is, it will end up under a vinyl stick on business sign. But I'm thinking I should seal it up well before burying it under the sign.

Should I what? Sand area down through rust, prime, rubbery rust paint? then simple spraycan paint, how to wait to put sign on? :confuse: etc.?

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't try to paint it or sand it, no. Just touch up the bare metal spots with a touch-up stick and then when you have the time/money, get it professionally redone.

jwjackson

I am currently deployed to Iraq with the texas army national guard. When i get home i wanted to get into auto body repair. I found a school that when i finish will give me $3500 worth of tools plus an AAS in auto body repair. The military will pay for it completely, but was told that most businesses dont want to hire someone who went to school for it. Apparently they would have to train me the way that they want. Does anyone know if this is true. Any advise on wether or not i should go to the school or try to become someones apprentice would also be very welcome. Thanks

Mr_Shiftright

They may wish to re-train you but if you are asking is it better to go into a shop with zero experience and ask for a job, or is it better to have a trade school certificate, I think the answer is obvious.

You might have a friend back home here ask around some hi-end body shops and see what they say. My impression is that there is a severe shortage for skilled people with an attitude to perform, and with your motivation both to perform successfully in the Guard overseas, and to get an AAS, a shop would be foolish to turn you down.

obyone

I have two friends that own autobody shops. One thing I've noticed over the years is that they will give anyone with a good attitude a chance whether or not they have experience. The quickest way to get on their bad side is when receiving instructions on how to do something replying with "we learned to do it this way in school". While they don't mind if you suggest something, they absolutely hate it when being told by some rookie what they learned in school from an instructor that couldn't hack the business.

Mr_Shiftright

Well sure, you don't want to walk in with a chip on your shoulder; on the other hand, you don't want to start work as a floor sweeper either, the kid who "knows nothing".

If nothing else, the school will teach you the proper use of tools and some common sense. Even if you learned nothing more than how not to break tools and how not to destroy a car's body, that's a good start.

Besides, school's a good way to see if you even like this kind of work.

I'd also inquire as to the school's placement service and by all means talk to graduates. If the school won't help you place, and won't let you talk to graduates, that's not a good sign in my opinion.

bigfur

If you go into a body shop with no experience and are not in a program to learn auto body repair they will laugh you right outta the shop. I was in a course sponsored by GM a few years ago that included having to be in an apprenticeship program, the shop will try to "train" you their way of doing things. You need a basic understanding of the things that all techs do that dont ever change and then each shop will show you their way of doing things. The old timers in the business are called journeymen for a reason, they have been to five to ten shops in the thirty years. They have the basics down and just have to learn the paperwork and other system things that each company does. With out a doubt go to school to learn the basics and go from there.

Mr_Shiftright

Another wild idea that I have actually seen work---is to find a really great shop and PAY THEM to teach you---instead of giving it to a college. In other words, you pay the shop tuition.

obyone

Sometimes no money is enough to pay for the major screwups. However paying them should lessen the blow.

mitchflorida

They may prefer someone with little experience in the field because they can pay him much less. If they hire someone who has been certiified, they would have to pay you a higher salary.

I think the more experience you have, the better.

obyone

From what I've seen they would rather take someone off the street with the right amount of "enthusiasm" rather than someone with trade school experience with an "attitude".

I've also noticed this with restaurants that hire cooks sometimes avoiding those that have graduated from cooking school that think they have qualified as a chef because of that "school" experience.

Mr_Shiftright

A really smart young person can learn much faster in life than they can in a classroom---the only thing the classroom can offer is resources, be it all the right books, lab equipment or welding torches.

bigfur

The course i went thru i feel is the best way to go. We had one semester in the classroom learning the basics of plastic filler and welding. Then we had a semester in the field working at a body shop as an apprentance. Then a semester back in class working on frame work. Followed by a semester back in a shop. And it went on for two years until we had a degree with taking some other classes and we had a job when we were done. Reason i stress the degree part is that half of us who went thru the class are no longer in auto body repair, we are in other automotive industries. Only major down fall is, that since this course I took was sponsored by GM...you guessed it, its dead!!!

oldfarmer50

Let me thank jwjackson for his service.

Then I have a question on new paint.

How long after you repaint a bumper or have pin stripes applied should you wait before you detail a car? Can you wash and wax right away or should you let the paint "cure"? Is it better to park inside or out in the sun?

Sounds like there are some paint pros in here who will know.

bigfur

The rule used to be to wait for i think it was three monthes before waxing fresh paint. And i would park inside as much as possible to aviod getting junk in the paint.

colin_l

My '03 Evo was beat up a bit in a recent hailstorm. :sick:

I had it estimated last week, and was surprised to hear that Progressive was quoting PDR for the whole car. 50+ dents on the hood, 60+ on the roof, 50+ on the trunk, and 2 (haha) on one door.

The hail was quarter to golf-ball sized and there doesn't appear to be any hard creases or paint damage. But the hood and trunk lid of my car are aluminum, so will PDR even work? And will it work on the window pillars? I'm guessing they remove the body panels and do this stuff on a bench, or something.

bigfur

If you have that much damage im guessing the body shop would replace the panels instead of doing PDR. PDR is great for a door ding or two, but not for hail damage. Have a body shop write up a quote not the insurance company. Also insist that the insurance company replaces the panels since the metal will be stretched and the clear coat will be cracked with that much fixing. Let us know how it goes.

gezzyman

what is the best rust inhibitor i can use , i have a couple of surface rust spots that id like to take care of before i repaint my car? any help is greatly appreciated thanks mike

chris789

I just got a new car with cloth seats. I've been looking online for fabric protectors. What would you recommend I use? Below are two I've found. This is for a Camry w/ Light Grey cloth seats.

http://www.metroguardian.net/shop/fabric-protector-by-guardian-c-7-p-10.html

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchgard-4104D-Interior-Protector/dp/B001NPD7BK/ref=s- r_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1249277706&sr=8-3

Thanks,
Chris

tallman1

Scotchgard has been the cloth protectant of choice for many years but I think I remember that they had to change the formula a few years ago. 303 High Tech Fabric Guard is another choice but I know nothing about it. I've never heard of your first product link either. Ultima also makes a protective product.

Sorry, been awhile since I had cloth seats. I found that I never really needed a protectant because there are some great cleaners out there. Good luck!

chris789

I just got a camry 2010 less than 2 weeks old and someone hit the rear bumper in the parking lot. It looks minor but I still want to get it fixed so its new again. The autobody said they can repair and repaint the bumper and I won't be able to see the difference whether it was replace or repaired. Its either $750 repaired or $950 replaced, I'd prefer to save the money if it'll last just as long.

tia,
Chris

kiawah

If the other party is paying because it's their fault, I'd have them replace it.

colin_l

I kind of inferred that the culprit wasn't caught.

I would have the body shop pull the bumper and inspect. If it's fine, paint and re-install. If it's anything less than fine, replace it.

Mr_Shiftright

If the "skin" that covers the bumper is only scuffed up, fine, you can paint it---if the skin is badly cracked and busted up, then no, I wouldn't patch it and paint it.

chris789

Its a friend that hit it so would prefer going with the less expensive quote. The bumper is only scuffed and showing some black paint scrapes. Is there any advantage to having the bumper replaced or will just repainting the existing bumper be as durable in the long run.

Thanks,
Chris

Mr_Shiftright

A professionally done repaint should be fine.

bigfur

With a plastic bumper done worry about the repair, a good shop will fix it to the point you cant tell a new one from a repaired one. Go the cheaper route!

caselynn26

I took my car to two different body shops, one my prefferred who I know to reputable, the other the insurance's preferred shop, I recieved two estimates both stated that PDR would not work well on this much damage. The claims person, was very irritated with the estimates (they were within sixy dollars of each other), sent an adjuster out who is claiming it can all be PDR. Offering 1200.00 for over 3000.00 damage. Had considered not getting fixed, is there something I can do to get them closer to the estimates?

obyone

Does the insurance company have a preferred PDR shop? I'm thinking what they would say if the PDR shop said they couldn't do it. And if there is that much damage I seriously doubt that the PDR shop would do it for $1200.

caselynn26

there preffered shop quoted, 3100.

obyone

Since the adjuster believes that PDR will work why not take it to a PDR shop and get a quote. Just make sure it's one that the insurance company recommends. They may surprise you by telling the adjuster that they can't do it. Most shops won't quote on a job they can't do. Good ones anyway.

bigfur

Here is the fun part about insurance agents and adjusters...they arent the one fixing the car!!! In minnesota about ten years ago or so we had a major hail storm during rush hour. Alot of insurance companies wanted to PDR the cars...as body techs we looked at the estimates and made the company do the repair right. PDR works great for a door ding or two...when you have a whole car peppered with hail dont ever PDR it as the clear coat will end up with tiny cracks and will eventually come off and the car will start to rust.

jwbooth

I have a 2 month old black Acura TL.

Sprinklers have twice left water on the car, and I'm in the Nevada summer climate of about 100 degrees.

I wasn't aware previously of the problems of water stains.

I've been researching this on the web, and have found various contradictory suggestions on how to deal with this.

Using Meguar's products (from Meguar site) - clay.

Then I read don't use clay. Don't try to rub it with microfiber towel.

Use white vinegar. Use 1/2 distilled water, 1/2 white vinegar. Use 4 part water, 1 part white vinegar.

Have a professional detailer work on it.

Please help. Two main issues:

1) How would you deal with getting rid of water stains?

2) What can I do for the future? Was planning to drive up north, including Oregon and Washington where its raining/misting all fall/winter.
How do people in rainy areas deal with keeping their cars water spot free?

Mr_Shiftright

I think that before I did anything drastic (or abrasive) I'd try some of those "instant detailer" products that you spray and wipe with a soft cloth. The stubbornness of the stain depends a lot on the minerals in the water, and that will vary place to place. The water in my area is "hard" and mineralized but a quick wipe of my dark green paint gets the sprinkler stains off.

I think clay is overkill for water spots, as it a professional detailer---both would be last resorts IMO.

As for any "home remedies", which might work just fine, be sure to test them out on the bottom portion of a rocker panel or bumper before you slather any household product on your car.

tallman1

As a resident of Washington state, I have some experience with water.

Actually, there is a difference between water that falls from the sky and water that comes from a hose or sprinkler. Rainwater around here rarely causes any spotting that won't come out when you wash your car. So you can relax when you come to visit. Of course, EVERYTHING shows up on a black car.

As Shifty says, hard water from a hose or sprinkler can cause spotting. I recently had some experience with this in the eastern part of the state where the water is harder than here in the west. I parked in my in-laws' driveway and their sprinklers caught the fender of my car. This was non-potable irrigation water. Ugh. The stains didn't come out after multiple washings but they did come out when I did my annual detailing. That included clay and applying a high quality paint sealant with an orbital. I really didn't pay attention to which step did the job.

IMHO, if you wash the car so that there is no loose dirt or dust, you shouldn't have any trouble with clay or wiping the paint with a microfiber cloth. A fine polish should also do the trick.

Finally, (and obviously) if you wash your car and dry it right away, water spots will not form. When the sprinklers get you and that water dries in the sun, you'll get spots.

oldfarmer50

I've been noticing a number of cars with what looks to be clearcoat failure. This appears to be an area of faded paint surrounded by a hazy border. It looks terrible.

What's the main cause of this? More importantly, what can be done to protect paint from the clearcoat breaking down?

I wonder if certain car brands or colors are more likely to have this happen.

Mr_Shiftright

Lots of things---UV damage, pollution damage, just negligence from not washing the car often enough in a high pollutant area---or using the car's hood as a shelf, etc.

oldfarmer50

"...UV damage, pollution damage...not washing the car often enough..."

So it sounds like the best protection would be a good old wash and wax.

It seems black cars show this kind of damage more often. Red would be second. Any opinion on that?

Mr_Shiftright

Color shouldn't matter, since the clear coat completely covers the color coat. When you buff a clear coated car, you don't get any color on the rag (hopefully not anyway).

This is why I'm really against any heavy buffing of a clear coat car---once you break the clear coat barrier, you can't just repair the top coat---you have to do both clear coat and color coat together.

jipster

What's the main cause of this? More importantly, what can be done to protect paint from the clearcoat breaking down?

I would think an improper repaint and clearcoat application. I had some clearcoat failure on used Nissan Altima I had. I bought a small bottle of clearcoat, scraped off the clearcoat that was loose, and used the liquid clearcoat to seal along the border that was breaking down. Seemed to work fairly well.

oldfarmer50

"...I had some clearcoat failure..."

I probably haven't noticed cars that have small areas of failure. What I've seen are cars that have large areas (several square feet) where the clearcoat seems to be sloughing off either in one spot or several spots on one panel (like the hood).

Makes an otherwise attractive car look bad.

I figured that sunlight was the main culprit but I was wondering if there was anything special I could do to ward off premature failure. Maybe I'll wrap my cars in plastic like they used to do with living room furniture.

obyone

I figured that sunlight was the main culprit but I was wondering if there was anything special I could do to ward off premature failure.

Parking it in the garage usually works too.

I thought you were describing catastrophic failure of the clearcoat. When reading Jipster's reply was beginning to question my reading ability. Glad it wasn't me. :surprise: