Saturn ION

vcjumper

Apparently the Getrag parts bin Stick shift for the ecotec cars leaves a lot to be desired so automatic is probably the way to go on these cars. Maybe GM should have traded their diesel motors for Honda manual trannies instead of the motors.

logic1

The manual in my L200 with the ecotec is made by Saab and shifts smoothly and well.

I am not even sure if Saturn has shipped any Ions with the manual yet.

The CTS uses a getrag. That's with a V6. I test drove one and thought it worked quite well.

dindak

Getrags are generally very good manuals?

I don't think GM needs Honda's transmissions. Honda could use some reliable GM auto transmissions though.

vcjumper

Review of ecotec equipped GA

That reminds me, isn't the GA due for a new model within the next year or 2 or are they doing the 7 year cycle thing.

logic1

I doubt the Grand Am uses the same manual as the L series. I am not certain the ION and the Grand Am would have the same manual either.

vuefor2

I've seen enough to know they are cheap for a reason and you will need that big warranty so hold on to it.

Tested a Sentra on the weekend. Nothing too special, we weren't all that impressed. I think we have it down to Ion, Protege or Corolla. We decided we will try a Focus next weekend also.

vuefor2

Handling is important, but ride quality, power and quality are more important to us I think. I am not an aggressive driver so as long as it's pretty good handling, we are happy.

vocus

Focus is recalled too many times for my tastes. I had a co-worker who bought a used 2000 with 40K miles on it, and she had nothing but trouble with it since she got it. The brakes and rotors went, the key got stuck in the ignition (that alone was $300!), and other troubles. I wouldn't recommend them.

The Corolla is a nice car, but the Protege definitely feels roomier for the driver (to me anyway).

dindak

I think the newer Focus models are probably much better as I'm sure many if not most of the bugs are fixed. I'm not a huge fan of the car's looks but it does seem to will many awards.

vocus

It handles wonderfully, has nice interior room, and adequate power. I still wouldn't have one if Ford gave it to me though.

vuefor2

We have a friend that has a Focus and she hasn't really had any major issues at all. It's only 8 months old, but it seems to holding together ok.

vocus

It's probably a 2002, right? I hear the newer ones have been better than the first ones. With as many problems and recalls as they have had, though, I still wouldn't trust them. They are nice cars though.

lngtonge18

You trust a neighbor's Ford that is only 8 months old as being a possible reliable car, ignore the past recalls and reliability problems with the Focus, and yet still refuse to believe people's glowing Hyundai ownership reports after 30-60k (one person in the forum even owns a 95 Accent with over 150k with no repairs other then brakes)?? If you are willing to give Ford a chance, than there is no reason why you can't give Hyundai a chance. Give the Elantra a test-drive at least and see how competitive they are for a cheaper price.

vocus

Lngtonge18 totally makes sense there.

saturnfreak01

Considering the price that Elantras go for out my way, under $12,000 with power everything, it isn't a bad value. I have driven one, and I find it "conservative" in the "fun to drive" department. I have also driven the Focus ZTS which had more "fun to drive" qualities, but also at a higher price.

But, I wouldn't buy either personally. It's either Saturn or Japanese cars for me. Always.

vocus

You must have had a good experience with Saturn then, if you choose to only have them or Japanese cars. My co-worker had a 1994 SC2, and it gave him nothing but trouble until the day he traded it for his 2001 Jetta GLX. No problems since.

Another co-worker has a 1993 SL2 with 130K miles on it that you can hear start up from the opposite end of the building, and it leaks oil like crazy as well. She is getting another car soon, she said, because she has a baby on the way.

logic1

Let's see. 9 years old. 130k miles. Apparently she did not bother to maintain the muffler, which would explain the roar. Imagine! A muffler going bad after 9 years and 130k miles. As we all know, there could not possibly be examples of other makes having muffler problems 9 years and 130k miles down the road.

And since she did not maintain the muffler, can't we assume she did not bother to follow oil and filter change schedules as well? Or is your remarkable one year old Jetta reliability example supposed to convince us that other makes do not need oil and filter changes either?

dindak

vocus : VWs are no better than GM in reliability and more likely a little worse. Call it luck of the draw if had a bad car, nothing else. Of course your friends VW is 7 years newer so it better be more reliable.

lngtonge18 : I don't blame Vue42 for skipping the Hyundias. They have a horrible past compared to Ford and although they may be much improved, I still need to see a 5 year old Hyundia look as good as a 5 year old Ford before I "believe". All the mid life Hyundias I see have rust up here.

csandste

I own an Elantra and like it better than the Furd Focus, Madza Pro or Niysun Stanza. I've looked at the Satrun Ion and found it interesting, but haven't driven it yet.

csandste

It's an extremely competant car, but most buyers like Dindak would never consider a Korean car any more than most people in their eighties will believe that Japanese cars are anything but junk.

dindak

I'd consider a Korean car when I see 5-10 year old ones looking like a 5-10 year Japanses car. I have yet to see this. Sorry but if you have seen what I've seen with friends and their Hyundais you would feel the same way. Like I've said before, they have come a long way but I still need to see better long term integrity.

vuefor2

Like dindak said I have seen enough to know that Hyundais still have to prove them selves long term. It may be the case that the new ones are good, but I'm not willing to take that risk. My sister did and she regrets it. We have only driven Hondas and one Mazda and my dad only drives Fords so I know them though I have never bought. We have a Saturn Vue so I know the quality there also, one sticking door handle has been the only issue we have had and we have a dealer that bends over backwards to make sure we are happy.

As far as the Elantra itself goes, I don't really like it's looks and I think it's trying too hard for a small car to be upscale. Please don't assume I haven't done my research either. I don't take Consumer Report's word for anything, I test my self also.

If you enjoy your Hyundia, great. Just don't try and push it on me.

I'd like to get back to the Ion discussion, last time I checked that was the topic.

vocus

My co-worker bought the car used a couple of years ago. I know she does the regular oil changes, because we were talking about that a couple of weeks ago. She said she takes hers to Jiffy Lube, and I asked why since they are expensive (to me). She said because her car drinks oil like crazy, and they offer free refills. That's how I found out the car uses oil. Also, the engine taps when she starts it, not really a cause of the muffler.

vocus

That Hyundais in Canada rust like crazy. We don't seem to have that problem in the US.

And drive what you wanna drive and what you like. You are the one who has to pay for it and live with it in the long run.

dindak

Where do you live? Northern states get just as much snow as we do.

-------------

Moving along, has anyone seen any CDN ION pricing yet? Kind of odd that it's not available yet.

vocus

We don't get alot of snow here. I live in Maryland, just below the Mason Dixon line.

It snowed a total of 5" here last year, I think.

dindak

There you go. It's the salt they use to melt the ice that kills cars up here. American cars are generally the best at resisting these evils.

lngtonge18

dindak: I guess I would have to see the amount of rust you are claiming, although some visible rust doesn't mean the car is a piece of junk. But I also have to wonder how well these cars were cared for. If a car isn't washed all winter, than of course it will begin to rust, regardless of the quality of the car. Example: I bought a 1985 Audi 5000 back in 97. It was a Canadian car for most of its life and I was simply shocked how much rust it had considering Audi was known for their usage of steel that resisted rust (can't remember what it was called). I had brake and clutch metal lines blow out on me due to rust, starting problems due to the rotted fuel pressure accumulator, and an oil pan that rusted str8 thru on the bottom. It was a nightmare and I vowed to run away as fast as I can from any Canadian car.

Vuefor2: I wasn't trying to push a car on you. I was just looking for a reason why you didn't want to look at a Hyundai, and not liking the looks of the car is one. That's fine. I just have to wonder when someone won't even look at one simply because they weren't so good in the 80s, but will look at other not so great cars like Dodge, Ford, and Chevy.

afk_x

One thing the ION has going for it is the top rated service department (according to JD powers) standing behind it.

Hundai is below average so I couldn't tell you exactly where it ranked...

dindak

Yup, some Canadian cars could be bad, especially if they spend their life in colder area with lots of salty roads. Hyundai's and other foreign brands don't seem to hold up too well IMO. Great thing about Saturn is the polymer panels will never rust, a big plus.

d2000one1

I didn't really like the way the article was written but here it is...

www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=06566260

wenb

All car makers make lemons. The Ion being a brand new design, could end up with some irritating service issues. That would be the same with any makers all new design. Cars are like software many bugs in the mix. It is how the problems are handled,when they arise that can make the difference.If I were buying today ,I would give the Ion my first look, followed by the Elantra.One thing to point out,how some service departments are paid on commision. The more stuff they charge for the more they make.I belive the koreon quality gets better every year.The auto sales business is so bad, so much competiton. Doe's Saturn still have the 30 day return policy.that is a huge commitment to customer satisfaction.

vuefor2

wenb :: Yes, the 30 day money back guaranty is still there as are the no pressure sales sales people. Makes you feel good about your purchase that's for sure. Have you tested an Ion yet?

lngtonge18 : My sister has a 97 Accent and while it's been ok over all, many small noises and little problems keep creeping up. It's very annoying more than anything as she seems to be bringing it in to the shop a lot. It has 40K last time I asked. I'm just not so sure Hyundais have improved enough and I think there is more of a reason for the cheap price other than cheap Korean labor.

dindak

Pretty decent review though not very detailed.

I drove by the Saturn dealer today and ION is still not even here yet. The guy said in a couple of weeks.

dindak

http://www.auto.com/industry/saturn31_20021031.htm

vuefor2

Good review. Don't think it's a chick car though.

Anyone actually bought ot leased an Ion yet?

saturnfreak01

To date, I have had good luck as you say with both of my Saturn vehicles, but I don't believe it is simply luck. Back in 1998 when I came into the Saturn fold, I used to believe that all american cars were worthless and unreliable.

I owned a Nissan, and a Toyota before my first Saturn in 1998 however they were less then spectacular. To this day I do not have much confidence in American cars, except Saturn. My retailer has made it clear that they will be there when ever I may need them, something I wasn't expecting. My Saturn's haven't given me much trouble at all and I have no problem giving repeat business to the brand.

IF Saturn wasn't available, I would most likely never buy an american car, Honda or Toyota would be my only choices.

vuefor2

Given our experience with our Vue, our first "American" car (whatever that is these days) I can say that the future looks brighter than the past. We really have had no issues with the vehicle and the service is better than I could have dreamed.

The Ion looks pretty good, but I will wait (like we did with the Vue) to make sure there are no major issues. My wife is leaning Corolla, but I like the Ion and Protege better.

vocus

Saturn service is very close to the top of customer satisfaction surveys, from what I have heard. They often rank with the likes of Lexus and Infiniti...

300silverbulit

I have been looking forward to the ION. I had a couple of S series cars but I diddn't wan't to go back to them. The seating position is way to low.

So I tried a ION-3 automatic. It is a great car. It always felt like it had power low and mid range. I drove on city streets and two lane country roads. The steering is very light and quick. I like the smallish steering wheel. I diddn't get it out on the highways so I can't tell about how the power and steering is at 60 mph plus. The brakes felt similar to the L series. They diddn't take alot of effort or management to use, very light and easy. The extra wieght of the ION over the S series diddn't take away from how light yet secure the ION felt.

I liked the interior alot. It had a tan interior with the silver face guages. The glowing red needles are cool. The stereo is high up but I diddn't use it. I would go for the standard single CD player in a ION 2 and change the speakers if I really needed better sound. I sat in a black ION 2 with a grey interior and black guages and I liked it better than the ION3. The ION 2 seats had a very interesting seat fabric on them. It was very smooth. The seats are very comfortable, with a excellent ratchet seat hieght adjuster that worked very well. There is plenty of foot room for the driver. I was easily able to get a comfortable seat position. The dashboard is modern looking and different. I like it.

The exterior looks really good. The back end is up high with a clean design, inculding the tailamps. I like the grill and chrome strip on the front. The front headlights look really good too. Not overdone like on the new 03' L series.
The roof rails did not really stand out. I could take them or leave them, but they aren't overdone. I would stick with the stock grey ones, and get the carbon fiber or metal look dash kit for the stereo/guage pod. They where hardly noticeable on the black or silverblue. They did stand out more on the medium green color. Which I really liked. With a tan interior it looked really good. Picking a color will be really difficult. I have to wait untill the quad coupe comes out next year.

Lastly, the 15" optional wheels on the ION 2 looked the best. Better than the 16" "plus sign" wheels standard on the ION 3.

I like the ION 2. With A/C, single CD player/radio, hieght adjustable great seats,power door locks with remote I think. The auto trans with transportation charges comes to just under $15,000. there are alot of options too. I would try to keep it down or you could really run up the price. I would stick with the alloy wheels for $350 and the side airbags for $395.

mpgman

I can't speak for earlier models since this is my first. I have an Elantra GT with 28,000 miles. So far, I like it better than the Corolla, Civic, Protege, etc. No comparison on content or comfort. It will take time for people to realize that Hyundai is building a much better car now. Everything is relative. Each to his own. But if you are looking for a solid ride with great content and warranty for the least outlay, give it a shot.

wenb

I have only seen the Ion from the outside in a mall. The color was maroon.I thought the whole car looked great. the front end was very clean. The tailights look very good.I think it looks as good or better than most cars in it's class.If I could describe the styling in a word I would say it looks sophisticated. The Ion 2 was over 16 thousand.To the persistant Hyndai owners, I must say they offer a lot of value. However I would have to give the Ion the first look; especialy after seeing it upclose.

dindak

Do you own stock in the company or sell these car or something? Yesh!!

It's an ION forum not a Hyundia forum.

imaddikt

I have a silver blue manual transmission Saturn ION3 and I absolutely love it! It drives great and is so smooth on the roads. Not only do I work in sales at a Saturn dealership, but this is my second Saturn. My first was an SL2, and I loved that as well. There are many differences in the ION's, being that there are three: the ION1, ION2 and ION3--all coming standard with different features. Let me know if you need info or if you have any questions! work email: jhouck@sutliff.net

vuefor2

mpgman - lets get back to the Ions

imaddikt - congratulations on the Ion - 3 ! You must get a lot of looks as it's such a new vehicle. There are 2 at the dealer near here, but I have yet to see one on the roads. Any issues so far? How fast /smooth is the 5-speed manual?

vuefor2

We love the service. Get a free wash every time, they usually have free donuts /coffee and the people who work in the service area are very friendly. I actually look forward to my visits.

wenb

I took a closer look at the Ion 2 parked in the mall on display.The price was almost 2000 over list because the dealer added some exterior paint prtection and interior protection. There was also an ugly pinstripe on the car.I don't know how many buyers would be fooled by that crap.however it seems to me that you would offend more buyers than you would fool.I still think the car is great.I can't buy now but ordering would be the way to go for me.Is it possible that some auto sales managers have scum running thru their veins or is business just that bad.

dindak

I'm surprised they would have a car like that on display with the sticker on it. Good way to scare people. This adding of "options" must be a US thing, I have never seen it in Canada.

vocus

I am surprised to see Saturn participating in the "adding accessories to jip customers" game. I thought they wouldn't participate in those types of games. Oh well...

vuefor2

Ok, Focus is now off the list. More recalls announced this morning say to me that this car is a nightmare. I can't understand how there could be so many problems with 1 car. Very scary stuff.

Looks like it will come down to Ion, Corolla or Protege.