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Saturn ION

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Comments

  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I do not think most Americans are as conservative as the males who post here. What matters is what works for the driver.

    The ideal guage display is not under the steering wheel. It is on the windshield, slightly to the right of the driver.

    Readable heads up displays cost too much to be feasible in a car that sells tops for 18k or so. A center guage stack, angled toward the driver can be closer to the ideal than a poorly placed steering wheel guage stack.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Wow, things have picked up here!

    re : center gauges. I'm not sure what the big deal is either. Really, it takes a few days to get used to but it's hardly "weird" as there are already a few car models on the road that have this and a few others coming that will have it. I think old people may have trouble as they are rigid in their ways, but most people will be fine with it.

    It's nice to hear lots of good things about the ride quality and power. I am getting excited about the possibility of another Saturn.

    Anyone know when exactly they will go on sale??
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Looks like they could show up anytime at dealers..


    http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/ION/2003/firstionsshipped.shtml

  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    bravedave...spot on

    logic...wrongo on the gauges.....

    parking brakes should be on the console and gauges in front of the steering wheel....I think its a UN resolution.....
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    regfootball-

    "parking brakes should be on the console"

    No way, I like my pedal-operated parking brake. Console hand brakes are a waste of space. But I won't tell you how many times I've popped the hood when trying to pull the brake release! :-P

    -Andrew L
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    "but I think that may prove difficult if they aim too far off center".

    Well, they seem to be aiming straight at the center (of the dash). Yuk, yuk.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    You must be an older person as your thinking is very one dimensional and your views are very set. You really need to be more open to different ideas. You probably also thought DVDs were just a silly passing fad also.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I got a bag full of stuff from the ION test drive the other night when I went. I tossed it in the back seat of my car when I left, and forgot to get it out until last night when I got home from work.

    Anyway, in the bag was a t-shirt (size XL) with "ION" on the front, and a big pic of the ION on the back of it. Also included was the new Goo Goo Dolls CD (I guess they use their songs in commercials or something). And there was a Matchbox replica of a Saturn ION quad couple, in that bright blue color, in there too. A flash card-like set of pics of the ION on one side, and facts on the other, was included too (I don't know what the point of these were). And, the coolest thing, a pen with "ION" printed on it. What's so cool is that when you push on the tip of it, it lights up in this ionic blue color. Totally cool! :)
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    It seems like the free crap they foist on you is cooler than the car itself! :)
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    boy you sure are stereotypical, thinking I am an older person because I have different views than you....that's called age discrimination......

    FWIW you are wrong....I'm 33. I like what I like.

    I happened to buy a DVD player when the first ones came out. Maybe that's because I owned a Laserdisc player for 10 years before that and couldn't stand the inferior quality of VHS.......I owned maybe 3 or VHS tapes in my life.

    I can like what I like, you can like what you like.....although it seems if GM does it a certain way, that's your thing.

    I really could care less what you like, as long as you like what you like.

    All I know, is if I'm shopping cars, I want the handbrake, the floor shifter and gauges in front of the wheel. The handbrake doesn't have to take up space...on my Diamante its inbetween the seat and the console...it doesn't take up any space on the console and its right there at my hand when I need it....the Taurus SHO I had with a stick, boy that had a footbrake.....what a pain. Even now my SHO with Auto I wish I a handbrake.

    so A)

    I'm NOT OLD as you suggest.

    B) I'm terribly open minded

    BUT

    when it comes to cars.....handbrake, floor shifter, gauges in front of the wheel.....

    WHat if this was motorcyles, would you put the gauges off to the left, the shifter over on the right and move the clutch to the foot?
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    I see many people here discussing the center mounted gauges, which clearly makes for a good debate. But, what about those horrible gray/charcoal roof rails on the sedans?

    I called Saturn's CAC last evening in hopes that I had mis information, but was proved right. The ION sedan will either come with "GRAY/WHITE/or SILVER roof rails, and as of this moment, matching body color roof rails are not an option on the sedan.

    I think that, will be more damaging to the ION, than the center mounted gauges, and personally, I love the ION, but hate the roof rail mumbo jumbo. Any thoughts?
  • gch2gch2 Member Posts: 7
    I am going to offer to paint roof rails that match the color of the car after the colors are available at the body shop. I am going to have S cars left over to sell to the customers who do not want to buy the ION because of the center gauge cluster.
  • bravedavebravedave Member Posts: 100
    Hmmm... let's see... interchangeabe roof rails... interchangeable console cover.... center mounted gauges... sound like someone is trying too hard to be different. Sounds like a poor gamble to make when Honda sells 300K + Civics per year & Toyota has similar numbers for the Corolla. BUT, to each his own. I can see where some people may like the radically different styling elements--- but I think they will be in a distinct minority.

    This is such a pity for car that rides & drives light years ahead of its predecessor.

    For the heck of it, I took a poll in the office (we have internet access). I showed the ION to about ten of my coworkers-- all of them were under age 30. They all had strong reservations about the gauge placement, & the style of the car.

    Granted, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think this will be a tough sell despite all the car's good qualities.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    But really, what do you like?

    ;-)

    FYI you certainly don't come off as open minded at all since you have never driven the ION and already say you hate things about it. People who are open minded try something before they criticize. That said if you say you are open minded, then I have to take your word for it.

    As for the motorcycle changes you suggest, they sounds bad but I would give them a shot.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Roof rails and console covers are totally gimmicks, but hey, it's all optional and for people who like to personalize things it could be a selling point. Better to have more options I always say.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    roof rails-----I can't wait to see the Leopard spotted rails and the cow spotted rails, the rails with carbon fiber look, etc. how bout chrome
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    We were talking about that the other night at the drive, about the leopard rails. You know someone's gonna get those. How hideous!

    The center gauges isn't as big of a problem as the very, very light steering, for me anyway. It compromises control of the car for me. It's Olds Alero light, and that's the lightest steering I have ever driven with.

    They would do well by losing the go-cart steering wheel too.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The electric power steering will be the wave of the future as it saves energy. I wonder if it can be modified to feel heavier as though the automobile has traditional power steering.
  • gch2gch2 Member Posts: 7
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I have heard very good things about the electric steering. I didn't notice it at all when I tested the VUE in the spring.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    maybe the driver's ed IONS can have reflective roof rails so at night people will for sure steer clear of them.....
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    TCC marred an otherwise fair review of the ION today by claiming the delta platform will base the 9-3 and the forthcoming Malibu and Grand AM. Big time ooops!
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    I was very much against the center mounted gauges until I drove the vehilce, and was surprised that its actually easier to look at them. I almost never look at the gauges anyways, except to occasionally check speed. To me as a consumer this isn't a big deal one way or another.

    The roof rails have positvies and negatives. On a positive side they're EXTREMELY easy to exchange, and allow you to make your ION different.

    On a negative side they are coming with a different color from the factory, so they're not an option. This is a stupid stupid move IMO on Saturn's part. I don't think it will stop people from buying the ION but it will be a negative factor for most folks I'm guessing.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    One of the IONs at the test drive was black with silver roof panels. Everyone thought they looked kinda neat..
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I've seen some pix and they look interesting. I wouldn't likley buy them, but my little sister thinks they are cool.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Thursday night I went to the local Saturn dealer to see if they had any ION's in stock yet. And they had 7 of them. A couple 1's, 2's, and 3's. There was a lot of people looking at them and test driving them. I had to wait about 15 minutes and then got to take one out. My initial impressions are this-
    -the car drove very nice, good feel for the road
    -electric steering was very light at low speeds but felt firmer at higher speeds. Maybe a little to light at low speeds for my tastes.
    -engine noise was normal for cars in this class and it felt very responsive. Definitely more power than a Civic.
    -all of the cars the dealership had were automatic, which is too bad because I would really like to try the manual. But, the auto felt like a great transmission. I shifted smoothly and you could even feel the transmission help slow the car when it downshifted - kind of like a manual.
    -the center gauge cluster is a little strange at first, but I think that it would be an easy adjustment. I'm not sure if this feature will hurt sales or not, not everyone is willing to change?
    -roof rails. The salesman told me that as of now all ION's are coming standard with the silver ones. He thought that eventually the will come with the car color. It is kind of a unique idea that will probably help sales to some extent.
    -seemed quite roomy inside though maybe not as much so as my focus. TCC was correct in their comment on the front foot tunnels in that it did feel a little cramped. That review does seem to be pretty accurate.
    Overall I do think that Saturn has a winner with this one. The Quad Coupe should be pretty cool as well especially if they build a performance version. I really want a CTS or a new 9-3 but with a new house and my wife driving a new car I might end up with a ION. And current financing or 3.9% for 60 months on a brand new model is pretty good.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    did not drive it but sat in it.

    in comparison to the S, which it replaces....the interior did not seem a whole lot more spacious. The seats were still low and unsupportive with the same basic fabric on them. The view outside the car was good, though.

    The door panels and dash were awash in the cheap plastic that has plagued all GM cars for some time. To some extent the shapes and textures drew your attention away from the actual material quality. Creidt them with trying to do something unique with the design, even if I don't care much for it.

    Mainly I wanted to check out the dash with the center pod. Sitting in the car, you first realize how much space the dash hogs because of the center gauge arrangement, but the thing you notice most is why the gauges are in the center. The steering wheel is small and tiny and almost forces you into a sit up and beg position....the wheel did not fall into your lap, its like you have to reach up for it. With the wheel up so high, it would block the sight line to gauges, had you put them in front of the wheel. So in that respect, putting the gauges in the center makes sense only because if they put them in front of the wheel there's no way you would even see them because the big marshmallow on the steering wheel would block the whole view of it.

    Shoulder and hip room were improved over the S. Trunk room was not as much as i expected.

    The look of the exterior in person has somewhat a similar stance to the Neon in front and rear tail, with more creases in the body that maybe try to mimic the edginess of the Focus a bit. The rear pillar is awkward and the doors had a clunky cheap sound when shutting.

    Yet in character....the Ion has a similar feel to the S series in an eerie way so its safe to say the brand character has been retained.

    Since I didn't drive it I can't comment on that part of it, but I would guess with the Ecotec motor, the car is a good drive, at least motor wise.

    Those GM fans drawn to the Ion for the Ecotec motor would be wise to just go to the Olds dealer and get an Alero. More room, better looking, more trunk.....Even to me the Cavalier is more attractive....the Cavalier has simple dash layout that preserves more room left for the occupants....the L series 200 for a little more money makes sense too.

    Apart from things that would reveal itself in a test drive, I still think the Protege, Corolla, Focus, Sentra all seem a nicer choice, at least for me.

    I think though there is enough in the packaging of the Ion that should keep a fair number of satisfied buyers though.......it will do ok in the market. It won't be an Aztek flop.

    Just wish they would put a real steering wheel on the car.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    regfootball : I'm shocked that you didn't like it! ;-) That said you were kinder than I thought you would have been. Why no test drive?

    bigdaddy : 3.9% is decent. They had the same when the Vibe came out over at Pontiac.

    I drove through the local dealer on Saturday and they had nothing yet. Like the new 03 L-series wagon though!
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    NO TEST DRIVE.....MADE THE DEALER CLOSE TO CLOSING TIME AND I HAD AN APPOINTMENT AT THE NISSAN DEALER TO TAKE A MAXIMA 6SP. OUT FOR A SPIN.

    PLUS I WAS AFRAID IF I TOOK AN ION ON A TEST DRIVE MY NECK WOULD BE STRAINED AND DISABLED FROM LOOKING TO THE RIGHT SO MUCH AT THE GAUGES.....
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Don't quit your day job.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    YEAH IT WOULD BE HARD TO TRY TO STARE STRAIHGHT AHEAD AT MY COMPUTER SCREEN AT WORK IF I COME INTO WORK IN THE MORNING AND MY NECK IS ALL TWISTED UP FROM 'LOOKING RIGHT' ALL ON THE DRIVE IN.......
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    reg :: You certainly can be a pain * sometimes. People want to discuss the Ion seriously, not listen to your repetitive banter about the same thing all the time.

    bigdad :: I saw an Ion in my local Saturn store in the window on Sunday so I could not see it up close or sit in it. They had none on the lot though the owner may have taken one for the weekend.

    dindak :: I too like the new look of the L-series. I didn't like the pictures but it looks good in person. The wagon is real nice, but it's a bit expensive for us so we are looking at the Ion. I will try and test one this week.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    When you drive, it is highly recommended to "keep you eyes moving", not stare straight ahead. Anyway, sounds like someone wants Saturn to fail and will stop at nothing to scream (ALL CAPS)about something trivial.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    the sales numbers will decide if the center gauges and window switches on the console are a mistake....wish I could find the link for the article I just read the other day...a test of the Ion, forget which magazine or web site it was......ripped the Ion hard for the center gauges and window switches on the console.

    just so happened my caps were locked that day.....didn't find it worth the effort to shut it off before I posted.

    time will tell if the center gauges are a passing fad or a worthy improvement....using all your logic, I am expecting that the Lseries and Vue will have new center mounted gauges for 2004 and that all other current models for sale will have new or modified dashboards to accomodate center mounted gauges ASAP as it is better, right?

    If it really is better, you'd seen it on more than 2 vehicles by now. You'd probably see it show up on cars from the industry leaders in safety like Saab Volvo and Mercedes.

    In the mini, its more a styling issue. In the Echo and Ion its a styling thing also, and it also makes the car easier to switch left and right hand drive.....I would lay money down they did it more to create a different style than they did for function. If it really was for function, the Vue would have it as well, as the two vehicles were roughly developed at the same time.

    So if you like the style of it, fine....that's cool. I just can't buy the argument its a better function, because if it truly was, we'd seen it already.

    I might have to dig through old Echo articles and test reports and long term tests and see what the consensus was on the center gauge thing.

    One thing, with the gauges out there for everyone to see, its not a real 'intimate' thing for the driver.......feels like you are sharing your information with the whole world to see......
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Where are the folding side mirrors, passenger assist grips, driver's side lumbar support, driver's side foot rest, storage areas in the center stack, rear leg room, telescoping steering wheel, improved mpgs from a 5 speed auto (same mpgs as the heavier L with the 4 banger), etc? Nice car on the whole but you can't come up so short on the above and talk about the car being one for the future.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    In a few years, as technology improves and prices for the technology goes down, guages will be supplemented, then in most lower priced cars, replaced with heads up displays.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Best to avoid responding at this point. regfootball seems to have nothing else to talk about anymore. Not sure what happened.

    I've rented an Echo, it really isn't that big a deal.

    The local paper (Toronto Star) had a great piece on the ION two weeks ago and gave it high marks all around. Looking forward to my test though I understand the ION will not be available in Canada until month end.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "people don't really want all that stuff"
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    I drove a Ion-2 last night. They only had one so I had to wait for 2 others to test before I did. There was alot of buzz at the dealership which made it all the more exciting.

    First of all, the ride is A-1 quality. Very smooth and as good if not better than any thing on road. Power was very strong smooth and refined. The looks of the car are much better than in pictures. I really did not mind the center mounted speedometer ect. and I'm sure I could get used to it in a few days. Steering wheel as mentioned was nice and small and the seats were very comfortable.

    Saturn has done well here and I think they will have a top seller if they have good marketing in place. Driving the car certainly sold me. I think we will replace out old civic with one in the coming months though I still want to test a Corolla to be sure.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    The Corolla feels a good bit smaller inside than the ION does, trust me I drove one right behind the ION. It's good to test them all before buying, but you are going to hate the Corolla. :0
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    It looks good inside and out and it certainly seems to be selling well so it can't be that bad.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Any one tested a 5-speed yet? Sounds like everyone is trying the automatics only.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Autos were the only ones provided at the test I went to, of all the cars. I can't drive stick anyway (not very well), so it's not an issue for me. And getting stuck in a traffic jam where it takes me 45 mins. to go 8 miles sometimes happens. That's tiring in a Tiptronic car like mine (Jetta), let alone a full blown manual. At least I can click my car into auto mode when shifting for myself gets tiring...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I know all about the traffic, same here around the Toronto area. Just interested to hear how fast the 5-speed manual is. I doubt I could drive daily with a 5 speed. I would get premature wearing of my knee, ankle and foot joints. If I had a summer fun car though, it would likel be a manual.
  • bravedavebravedave Member Posts: 100
    Anyone have a clue as to when the Saturn web site will allow you to build your own ION & price it?

    It seems they are lagging a wee bit behind.
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    Considering that their are virtually no ION's ready for sale at this point, and Saturn has yet to start it's advertising for the ION, Saturn doesn't seem that "far behind" as you say.

    It makes sense to omit a new vehicle from the corporate website when it is not availble, and Saturn is trying hard to move out the 02 S Series clogging Saturn lots.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    innovative, but stupid
  • bravedavebravedave Member Posts: 100
    If they are on the car lots (which they are) then Saturn should have their web site up & running to show case the ION in more detail. Granted, they do want to liquidate their S series inventory, I think it would behoove them to make more info available ASAP. As far as the roof rail gimmick is concerned, I wish they could be purchased as the same colour as the rest of the car. As for the center gauges, they are not to my liking. When I drove it last week, the center gauges were a bit too wierd for my tastes. To each, their own....

    But the rest of the car was light years ahead of the old S-Series.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    "Where are the folding side mirrors, passenger assist grips, driver's side lumbar support, driver's side foot rest, storage areas in the center stack, rear leg room, telescoping steering wheel, improved mpgs from a 5 speed auto (same mpgs as the heavier L with the 4 banger), etc?"

    To a certain extent I agree with the above thoughts. At some point cost becomes a factor. There is a storage area in the center stack, standard on the ION 3 and optional on ION 1 and 2.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    It's an economy car so some things always have to go or the price goes up. Saturn has kept the ION prices nice and low which should attract lot of buyers.
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