Saturn ION

rabbit2003

Thanks uga91.

I checked with the dealer today, acturally nothing was wrong with my ion. It was because I had a cup of drink in the cup holder, which caused the parking gear can't be shifted completely. The mechanic said they already had 4 people came by for the exact same problem, I guess the factory should put the cup holder behind the parking break for next year's model.

uga91

It is strange that this has never happened to me since drinks in the cupholder are a common thing for me. Maybe Coke cans are not big enough to cause this? I'm sure Saturn is taking note. You may think about e-mailing Saturn at their web site and letting them know what happened. The more e-mails they get about it happening will cause a quicker redesign--I would think.

uga91

I'm sure basic models are selling under 10 grand every day. What made me notice the price, though, was how low a well equipped LS model was. Isn't this the last year of the Cavalier? The last thing I would want to do is buy a car that will not exist in a few months. However, at these prices, some will no doubt learn to live with it!

rabbit2003

You are right, small cans are ok, before that medium size drink I had a can of coke, it was perfectly fine, but when I put in a 22oz drink there, the problem came. I will definitely email Saturn customer service soon.

vocus

The Jetta is the same way sometimes when I leave my cell phone in the ashtray box thingie ahead of the shifter. I just have to be careful with it. They should definitely change the cupholder to fix this design flaw in next year's model.

vocus

I checked out a Cavalier today, and the LS models are going for $13K with automatic and power everything with the $4000 rebates they currently have. As far as buying a car that won't be around in a few months, look how many people bought the outgoing S Series cars and they aren't around anymore. It's not like they won't make parts for them still or something, they actually have to make parts available up to 10 years after the production, if I remember correctly.

regfootball

as far as spending 14k on an Ion one, to spend the extra money for the good stereo, decnt looking wheels, and decent seats or leather would be the only things that would make the car interesting and enjoyable. The stereo alone would go along way to make me stop moaning about having to turn my neck to the right all the time. I would gladly pay money for real aluminum wheels so I wouldn't have to look at the ones GM offers on the Ion. Plus real tires also, I could get some good handling tires. And good non factory leather for my tushie would go a long way towards making the interior somewhat attractive. If I got someone to put in a sunroof and maybe went for sport seats too. So its those special touches that would make the car bearable.

Just about any car I buy i would put the stereo in. All the other things are for looks, and lets face it, the Ion needs all the help it can get in the looks department.

As far as crank windows, since they don't make the power windows available alacarte on the 1....and an Ion2 is too expensive compared to other competitors even after discount considering what you get.

If I had to consider the Ion2, that automatically defaults me to a Protege, Focus, or Lancer.

New car for cheap + put some extra money to make the car unique and interesting and different = possible.

13k for a loaded Cavalier is still a rip off.......

dindak

Parts will never be an issue with a Cav.

Is the Jetta a w/o?

uga91

I know buying a car in its last year is something that can be manageable. It's just that twice ion the last 10 years, I have bought cars in their last year of current styling--and I did not realize it until after the fact (I'm more up to date now)--and it upset me then. I would be really upset to find out my car does not even exist any more. However, you are right, for a low enough price tag, tens of thousands are willing to buy them.

uga91

I still don't get it. You are willing to sink 14 grand in an Ion1 with upgrades. Except, you will not be able to finance the upgrades, so that will be cash out of pocket now--or, worse yet, money racking up 18% APR on you Visa card. My whole thing is that if you are willing to spend $14k on an Ion, then do it; but, finance it all. With $3000 total rebates, you can get an Ion 3 with leather and sunroof for $14,000. You can still customize your stereo and change your wheels if you really want to--but at least you'll finance the lion's share of the cost at new car financing rates. I don't understand why you insist that an Ion 2 or 3 is way overpriced, but putting $14k in an Ion 1 is a great idea you can sleep comfortably with. It's still $14,000 and the Ion 2 and 3 are nicer cars than the 1. Yeah, you'll have leather seats, but you'll still have to manually let everyone in your car one door at a time because you don;t have power locks. You still have to strain to reach the back window to roll it down since you don't have power windows. Your right foot will still go to sleep on the highway since you don't have cruise control. If you are willing to spend $14k on an Ion, then buy one that is worth $14k, IMO. With your rebates, you can look at models costing $17,000 to find one you like.

However, I think this is all jsut for conversational benefit anyway. You don't like the Ion. We all know you are not going to buy one. Just read your last post again to see that fact. For $14k, I think you should be looking Elantra GT, Protege, Lancer, or some other way towards a car you will be able to stand looking at every day.

debdoozy

Reg: From the way you describe what you would want to change in the Ion, it sounds to me like you should start your own car company because you obviously don't like the way it is now. Oh, and BTY, you don't have to turn you whole neck to look to the right. Just move your eyes slightly to the right instead of slightly down. Not much of a difference. As for the looks department, I think it looks great. The ONLY thing I would change is adding a sunroof to mine, which I'm looking in to doing. I guarantee if you were to drive an Ion for a week, you would enjoy it.

On a different note, I took my Ion3 for it's first long trip from Atlanta to Orlando loaded with camping gear and 3 people stuffed in the car. I have to say that it was very comfortable for the entire trip and we had no problems with the car whatsoever. As for the gas mileage, I couldn't tell you exactly what it was, but I can tell you that it was very, very good. One tank of gas down there and one tank back (of course that was the entire tank). We are very pleased with our Ion3 so far and are happy that we are seeing more and more on the roads here in Atlanta now (I saw a green one on the way into work this morning).

uga91

Glad to hear your trip went well. As far as mpg goes, Atlanta and Orlando are 438 miles apart and the Ion has a 13.5 gal tank. Since you did not run out, we know you did not use 13.5 gallons. Assuming you used 13 gallons, that would be 33.7 mpg. Not the world's best, but not bad, either, with 3 people and their stuff.

uga91

According to saturn.com, an Ion 3 with manual, leather, and sunroof carries a MSRP of $17,000. With $2000 rebate and $1000 from your GM card, you'll finance $14,000. IMO, that would be a much better use of $14,000 on an Ion than loading an Ion 1 with aftermarket upgrades.

regfootball

BUT YOU DON'T GET IT.

I don't like the Saturn wheels, tires or the leather.

I can buy the 1 at 9300 bucks. I add 1700-2200 for leather and wheels/tires. Another 500 or so for a stereo that doesn't suck....i.e. one with ample power and amplifiers and subwoofers and an mp3 input. I'm not taking this car on too many trips so I can live without the cruise control. If I really need the sunroof than i can consider upgrading to the 2.

The bottom line is that the in order to make the car unique and interesting I would need to customize it, because on its own it doesn't do anything for me. That's the part you don't get, and will never get. For me, if I have nice looking 17" or 18" wheels and with a good tire on it and a stereo that kicks butt that provides VALUE. The moonroof I want because its adds to the feel of spaciousness inside the car. Good quality leather is needed because you need something to draw your attention away from the horrendous dash design and plastics.

IT's ALL ABOUT CUSTOMIZATION AND DOING THINGS TO MAKE THE CAR UNIQUE AND INTERESTING......of course if I bought a Focus I probably wouldn't have to do anything with it. Its a good looking car and handles and drives well.

And since I would profit from the sale of MY CURRENT car, I would not have to borrow anything close to the sticker price. I have never been under on any of my car loans, and unlike what you ASSUME.....I'm not stupid enough to do THAT.

Thanks very much for being my financial advisor and telling me what I SHOULD and SHOULD NOT DO. Next time, however......please feel free to keep that advice to yourself.

P.S. not having power windows or locks would surely save me from having to go to the dealer and getting those items fixed at 38,000 miles. How would I look the service manager in the eye when my head is slightly turned to the right? Sorry.....

BTW the Ions I saw on the lot this weekend with leather stickered at 19 grand..........absurd.

pat

Careful, careful. No reason to get into an argument about differing preferences. Those very differences are what keep us so addicted to the subject of cars, yes?

;-)

uga91

......of course if I bought a Focus I probably wouldn't have to do anything with it. Its a good looking car and handles and drives well.

Good quality leather is needed because you need something to draw your attention away from the horrendous dash design and plastics.

Next time, however......please feel free to keep that advice to yourself

Looks like you solved your own problem. You want a Ford Focus. You don't like the Ion, you think it will experience electrical problems at 38,000 miles, and you think it has nothing unique about it. I happen to think the Ion looks like no other car on the road, but that's just me. Sounds to me what you ought to do is take that "9300 bucks" and buy a used Civic. Then you can put 18" wheels on it, a goofy aluminum wing and a couple of "performance" decals then you would be real customized. Good luck on your decision. I will keep my advice about your car to myself from now on.

regfootball

don't want a civic either

hey, the Ion has good power, nice room, nice big trunk, is pretty solid and rides pretty good. Its organized under the hood and is a nice, simple car. There's enough there for my tastes if its a good deal. All I'm saying is if I bought one, I'd spruce it up a bit. Actually, no wings for me, the Ion's spoiler is nice enough looking.

By no means is an Ion a penalty box. I just think if I end up getting one by some wierd chance I'd wanna do somethings with it to make it be a little more personalized.....an no, I don't mean leopard print roof rails.

I wish the Ion coupe red was available on the sedan, as well as the color matched cloth. That would jazz things up a bit. Or hey, how bout a yellow Ion??????

Yes, if my revised budget forces me to go with a smaller car soon I will probably take a 24 hour test drive with the Ion, I will at least give it another objective look. Aside from aesthetics, the car itself was ok, when I tested it before.

dunworth

You want to customize an Ion sedan?. With a kid in the back seat? It does not sound like you want a Fast and Furious look but still - I agree with uga that an Ion2 or 3 makes more sense financially, especially of you ever sell the car. But I am sure you already know this.

Have you seen any nice custom jobs on these cars. I have always like the stock Saturn SL and Ls for their relatively clean lines and good paint. Even the Ion with matching roof rails looks OK in 1, 2 and 3 trim levels. But I have seen so few of these on the road and have no idea what a customized version looks like.

If you do get an Ion and customize it, I definitely want to see photos.

FWIW Saturns have not had a lot of electrical problems that I can recall. GM cars in general are decent for the longevity of their power accessories. My wife's 15-year old Century's power equipment worked to the last day.

BTW the Focus has had its bugs ironed out. With the deals on this why not buy one of those instead. It looks good, is roomy enough for a small family and is quite economical to run.

vuefor2

I'm not sure why the big issue with the rims, the alloys are quite nice and resonably priced though we opted not to get them as we were on a budget.

I can see a lot of people customizing Ions though as you see many SC coupes decked out and tuned up.

regfootball

kid or no kid, WHY WOULD THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW I ACCESSORIZE A CAR?

virtually all wheels on every car in the middle class price ranges are bad and GM is a classic offender in the worst way. The Ion alums are an improvement over typical GM fare in terms of finish quality, if you need an example go look at the horsecrap wheels they have been offering on Grand Prixs from 98-2002. CHEAP. To top it off, TO ME, IMHO, the design of the Ion aluminum wheels is totally unattractive and unacceptable. The look is too wierd for me. So, if I get aluminum wheels, I do not want the factory ones because I don't like the looks at all and cannot tolerate it. I go to tirerack.com or tires.com and there is literally tons of wheels I have to pick from that look good and actually are reasonable priced. A simple 5 spoke for me please. Machined quality looks.

I am not out for a fast and furious car, however I like the look of the nice well machined wheels and low profile tires. No whale tail on the back, the Ion spoiler from the factory is just fine.

a_l_hubcaps

regfootball-

For the most part (and here I am excluding superexpensive BBS wheels and the like), OEM alloys are of better quality than aftermarkets. Do not buy 17"/18" aftermarket wheels if you live in a potholed area...you will be replacing them constantly. In my experience, GM and Toyota offer the best quality OEM wheels, the worst being Mitsubishi and Volvo.

-Andrew L

regfootball

thanks for the advice, but seriously man, GM has never made a good looking wheel. Corvette wheels are even not that great. OEM may be of better quality in durability because they are heavier....however the looks of domestic wheels are usually bad.

there's a wealth of wheels available out there, and all of them look better than factory wheels.

bigdaddycoats

Saabs have pretty sweet factory wheels.

vcjumper

The problem is if something happens and one wheel is busted up, there is a chance they don't make that wheel anymore. But if you really hate the stock ones and want to spend the cash, then its worth the risk.

vcjumper

I like VW's.

dindak

Lots of excellent looking factory wheels out there. The ION does not have the best ones, but I love the ones on our Intrigue. Typically a lot cheaper to get OEM that's for sure!

uga91

We got the optional 15" alloys on our Ion 2 and I think they were only about $300. I don't know what it would cost to buy them after the fact, though. I know that floor mats that come with the car and appear on the window sticker are $80; but, the exact same floor mats bought afterward at the parts counter are $120.

regfootball

typically 'import' makes have had far better OEM wheels then Ford and GM, especially GM.

vcjumper

To me are the ones on recent Mustang LX's. The one that is not uniformly symmetrical. Ugh.
Civics and Corollas have never had nice rims that I can remember. Cannot recall nice Chysler ones either. Everyone's got different opinions on rims, some think bling/dubs is the thing.

vocus

They tend to not be as strong as factory wheels for some reason. Also, you might end up having to change them in winter because of salty road conditions, depending on where you live. Also, the bigger the wheel and the lower profile the tire, the more risk you take in damaging a wheel on a pothole.

OEM wheels aren't necessarily cheaper than aftermarket ones. One 17" OEM wheel for my Jetta is $450, more than some aftermarket ones. Of course, parts are always more expensive for German vehicles than Japanese or American ones.

Also, I like the ION3's wheels. They look kinda different, which is a good thing in this cookie cutter marketplace.

dindak

I saw an 03 L200 Special Edition yesterday with very nice looking factory rims. It's amazing how good they made the car look. I would definitely look at one if I was in the market today. The new look and the discounts make it very attractive.

regfootball

new Ions with air and cd for 7575 in this wkd's paper.

all discounts including olds loyalty and college grad. wow.....

vuefor2

Dindak ::: L200 is a nice car, it was just a little over budget even with discounts.

Regfootball :::: Sounds like a scam. What are the odds on qualifying for all the discounts they are listing?

Vocus :::: I like the Ion wheels also. Not everything has to be 5 spoke,

regfootball

yes, but not everything has to be wierd, either.

dindak

Nothing "wierd" about them. Only "wierd" according to you.

pat

okay, kids - keep squabbling and you'll get sent to your rooms with no dinner!

regfootball

lol

pat

what's really funny is that I thought we were in Grand Prix arguing about cladding when I posted that.

I need an icon for eyes that are so tired they are crossed!

ha!

vcjumper

We need a news and views topic on "What is cladding?" Is mazda skirting more cladding than gp door plastic or ion C pillars?

tomcat630

Ion prodcution is going to shut down next week for a month, to adjust the inventory. When they come back, they will start building 2004's.

Story in www.automotivenews.com

I think Saturn dropped the ball with the Ion styling and interior designs, for sure.

rchall

I'm a newbie (have owned 2 Saturns in distant past) and am trying to decide between a Mazda Protege 5 (yes I know it's a hatchback) and a ION 3. Both are similarly equipped and with cash back/financing/etc. both cars are within $2/month. It seems to me that the Mazda is great handling and has a great interior but is more like a "rally car" with the road noise (I do feel the road well however). The ION has plenty of punch and cruises extremely well--little noise and engine doesn't seem to work as hard. I can't find any comparisons between the 2--5 spd MT is choice with leather. Any ideas?

Thanks,

regfootball

the Mazda would generally be nicer, except it has a coarse powerplant. the question then is, do you go with the Ion, which has a better behaving motor but has some styling moments inside and out, or go with the Mazda for more space, better hadling, nicer interior.

either will probably work for you.

rchall

What about reliability? Also, what is your overall opinion on the 2 cars, especially the engines? Is my evaluation accurate?

Thanks,

RCHALL

dindak

rchall : Ecotec is a very reliable engine. It's been around for a few years now and I have not heard of any mechanical issues. Not sure about the Mazda motor though.

tomcat : I think the ION sales could be easily boosted with a few minor changes like the steering wheel and some other interior bits. The exterior has grown on me a lot.

uga91

Either would be fine for you, I'm sure. If road handling is more important, then get the Mazda. I've never driven a Pro5, but I know my Ion is not the most precise handling car I've ever driven. You may get more for your Saturn from the Saturn dealer, though. When I traded my 99 SL2 for my Ion, I shopped other brands as well and the Saturn dealer gave me about $1000 more than the others were willing to go. But, if you know payment to within $2/mo then this may not be an issue. If you are really going back and forth, then think about why you are considering the Mazda after 2 Saturns. What has Saturn done to lose your business? Anything? As much as we all like to hear other people comment about cars, remember that you are the only one who will drive and pay for your car. Get the car you like the best and do not worry if others question your decision. You only have to impress yourself. Good luck in your decision!

cdavidhess

The handling in the Protege is great, but the ride is jiggly and tiring, at least for me. The Saturn has capable handling and a great ride.

vuefor2

We love our Ion, the Mazdas just don't drive as nice, especially on the highway. Ion is probably bigger but the Mazda 5 does have added utility however (being a hatch back).

No issues for us in the almost 5 months we have had it.

ab348

Actually, Ion production is going to be shuttered for 4 weeks: next week, the previously-scheduled first 2 weeks of July, and then the following week as well. According to Automotive News the move is to "adjust inventory", with a 110 day supply of sedans and a 43 day supply of coupes on hand. The coupe supply is actually below the standard of 60 days but I guess the entire plant must shut down all at once.

According to Automotive News the sales of the Ion so far this year are significantly less than the previous model for the same period (I think the number was off about 15,000 units). Hoo-boy, that's not good.

uga91

I'll bet they are shutting down for 4 weeks to also make changes in the Ion for 2004. When they resume, they will be making 2004 models, right? Saturn might be making some significant changes in the Ion. I hope lowering inventory is not the only reason.

alpha01

Thats optimistic, but it seems doubtful. Saturn is a different kind of company (or however the mantra goes...) but RARELY are significant revisions made after just one model year. Even Ford, with its catastrophic redesign of the 1996 Taurus, didnt "fix" its styling until late 99 for the 2000 MY. High inventories mean even better deals though... so it could be good for those very interested in the ION.

~alpha