Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Everyone platform engineers now adays except for some very high end cars. This is different from badge engineering which is what GM did with most of their lines in the 1980s (remember the Cavalier/J2000 Sunbird)/Firenza/Skyhawk/Cimarons ?). All basically the same car.
It is not a new idea. In the early 1960s a British company called BMC produced many versions of the original Mini under the Morris, Austin, Riley, Wolseley,names. All of them equally awful for North American drivers.
(I must say- of the 80s J cars, I always thought the Olds Firenza was the best looking).
~alpha
I still enjoy the feel you get, as someone above said, of "walking into an Acura or Lexus dealership" when you walk into the service department of a Saturn dealer.
I took a 16 hour (one way) trip last summer with 3 adults and a one-year old child in a car seat, and we were all worn completely out when we got back.
It seems to me that the ION's back seat is just as small, with very little toe and leg room, and is quite hard.
Has anyone else experienced this? Has this been a problem for you, or do you not really use the back seats much.
I am in the market for a new car, and the 2003/4 Corolla LE seems to be winning out for me due to the relatively luxurious and larger back seat. But, I haven't quite made my mind up yet.
Any comments?
Anyone out there who toiled over choosing the Corolla vs. the Ion?
Thanks. - Greg
P.S. I like the Ion's styling - both inside and out.
Corolla was nice but there were a few reasons we went with the Ion (which we liked just as much).
1) Price was less and financing was 0% for 60 mo. Thousands of $$ saved.
2) Better dealership
3) Polymer doors
4) Better highway ride and bigger trunk.
Either car would have done the job but I think the 0% for 60 really pushed us to Saturn. We also had a rotten egg smell in the Corolla a/c which we heard is common and that kind of scared us.
My family (always two people in the back seat) do long trips in our '02 Corolla (the '03 is bigger and seating is even better) and '03 Civic and both are far more comfortable than our Saturns were. I switched from the old Saturn to the Civic due to the uncomfortable seating position for me.
Everyone fits in cars differently, so check them both our carefully before you buy. Ion versus Corolla - you can't lose either way.
You may know this from your previous Saturn ownership but Saturn's interiors creak a lot more than a Corollas, especially with the wild temperature fluctuations we experience here (I am in the Toronto area). Both times I test drove the Ion I noticed a number of interior creaks which were not on either my Civic or Corolla.
Nothing major and they can probably be taken care of to some extent, but annoying if you are used to Japanese cars. Just a thought.
Vuefor2's point about the substantial price difference is also worth noting.
The old S-series were a very old design so perhaps the manufacturing methods and designs were not as good.
After our 1995 SL2 and 1999 SL2, I find the interior of our Ion to be much bigger and nicer in every way, so I think it is interesting that you feel they are the same size. Looking at the hard data, the Ion has an interior 3 cubic feet larger than the Corolla, and a larger trunk as well. The rear seat (which you list as important) of the Ion has 3" more hip room than the Corolla does, although, the Corolla does have about 2" more leg room than the Ion. The Ion las a longer wheelbase than the Corolla, so it should provide a better ride on your 16 hour road trips. The Ion has a bigger and more powerful engine than the Corolla does; however, that also means the Corolla gets better gas mileage. The Ion has a tighter turning radius than the Corolla does, so parking should be easier. The Ion 3 gives you standard 16" alloy wheels vs the 15" steel wheels of the Corolla LE. The Ion also has a few features standard over the Corolla such as cruise control and fog lights.
Again, I think the Corolla is a fine car; but, the Ion offers a larger interior, a bigger trunk, more standard features, a longer wheelbase and a tighter turning radius, plus a larger engine. Also, I would think you would get more for your SL from a Saturn store instead of a Toyota store.
"The Ion las a longer wheelbase than the Corolla, so it should provide a better ride on your 16 hour road trips" I would argue that wheelbase does not correlate directly to a more comfortable ride. If you review Consumer Reports, for example, the Corolla and ION rate similarly.
"The Ion has a bigger and more powerful engine than the Corolla does; however, that also means the Corolla gets better gas mileage. "
Yes, the Corolla gets significantly better fuel economy. But, just because the ION engine is bigger and more powerful, doesnt necessarily mean it is quicker. In fact, from all accounts I have read, it is slower, and many publications have stated puzzlement at why the Ecotec feels and is slower in the ION than in the Alero or L series, both of which weigh more.
It is a preference, but the Corollas interior styling is much more appealing to me, and appears to be much more durable. All the crash test information for the Corolla is very impressive (although I do not put much credo in NHTSA testing of side impacts, as they do not account for head injuries).
In the US, equipped similarly, the ION 3 and Corolla are very close in MSRP:
04 Corolla LE 4sp auto
Options: All Weather Guard Pkg, ABS, Cruise, Alloy wheels, 4pc Floormats, and AM/FM Cassette/CD combo with 6 speakers
MSRP: $17,302
carsdirect.com TARGET price: $15,992
03 Saturn ION 3 5sp auto
Options: Travel Pkg, ABS, Front and Rear Floormats
MSRP: $17,155
carsdirect.com TARGET price: $15,155
No doubt, the Saturn is a decent car. But it does not compete with the best in its class. The Corolla is part of the best in its class.
~alpha
basically anyone can come up with a financial case for one car over another. The points uga made were good and alphas points are good.
One wildcard here is Toyota's excellent reliability history for Corolla but Saturns is not as good as that.
I still think Ion can compete in the Ion1 and low Ion2 range, but once you option it up and get in the higher Ion2 and Ion3 ranges you lose competitiveness on many points. Which then means if you like the car anyways, buy it, but know the other choices are most likely as good or better.
And, in the end, even if you decide to go with Ion, then there is the whole issue of questionable styling and center gauges. Of course, you would get plastic doors.
I still can't stomach the Ion's interior, though.
Larger interior doesnt mean more comfortable interior, longer wheelbase means just about nothing, bigger wheels are nice but so what(especially given the hideous design of the alloys).
If you want a car thats quicker, gets substantially better fuel economy, has a reputation for quality, has already received the IIHS offset top score, has a much more upscale interior, a longer powertrain warranty, better resale value, and a lower cost of ownership (.35 cents per mile vs. .42 for the ION 3 as per Edmund's True Cost of Ownership tool), try the Corolla.
I should add that the Corolla is not for everyone- make sure to try the driving position first- it seems to be better suited for shorter people. That said, hands down, itd be my pick over the ION, even at $800 more expensive initially. If money is of utmost importance, Id go for an Elantra over the ION.
As far as I'm concerned, any car's styling needs only to impress one person: me.
And, for your benefit, I'm the one who complemented the Ion's styling and dissed the Corolla's a couple of posts back.
But thank you for not getting defensive.
Happy driving,
~alpha
just as an FYI- when shopping for a small car, I chose not go to with the Corolla.
Personal we are not supposed to get. :-)
Actually, this discussion is not really reserved for owners and proponents. What I can do is ask KarenS to create an Owners Club for the ION (or perhaps include it in an existing Saturn Club). I think that may be what you are looking for uga.
Are there other ION owners here? Pardon my densosity, but I'm not sure and would like to know.
Uga is correct that extended debates about one vehicle over another do indeed belong in a separate discussion on the Comparisons board.
I do think that most members of the Town Hall instinctively separate opinion type messages from fact type messages, but IMHO, "IMHO" could be used FAR more than it is around here. It helps folks understand that a strongly worded message is not meant to berate others who may disagree.
you know?
A discussion board about any particular model shouldn't be limited to just positives. Life is not all sweetness and light. Likewise, if someone buys a car because they like it, they should not have to defend it at all.
But the points we are throwing out here are not to slam an owner for his/her purchase choice. Its to debate the strengths and weaknesses of the car. Because a particular item is pointed out as a flaw is not meant to beride an owner of the car. But I don't think these boards were intended to just be a mutual admiration society either.
Who knows, i could end up driving an Ion if I need to, and that's ok. For the most part on my test drive I found the car to be likable enough. I may even try to do one on a 24hour test drive. That still wouldn't change my opinions about the fatal flaws like the steering wheel, etc.
A lady at work just bought a Corolla Sport and the body cladding and spoiler are just brutal. You just can't buy anything but the LE or the car looks awful IMO.
saw a red quad coupe the other day and it does indeed look pretty good.
Too bad there is no Ion1 quad coupe. Would be a good seller with the teenies.
I have not seen a real Ion coupe yet. Dindak, did you see it around our little 'burb?
I have seen the Quad coupe at our dealer. i sometimes wish we had got one, but with baby on the way, it's better to be safe with the sedan. Very pleased with the 5-star safety rating announced last week. Anyone know what the safety rating on the Corolla was?
I agree about cladding on the Corolla- I'd skip the S model, but it seems to do well with young females in this area.
~alpha
My Ion's transmission is slipping during the 2nd gear change. It's happening about 2~3 times a week. I've brought the car back twice, the dealer can't find anything wrong. Has anyone here heard of this problem? Can you suggest a site I can go to?
Thanks
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
A friend of mine just had a tranny put into a low mileage 1997 SW2 automatic which she bought new and serviced by the book at her local dealer.
Initially Saturn was not going to do anything but I told her to go yell at GM and they finally coughed up (she had the extended warrantee).
Yours is so new it should not be a problem.
It only seems to happen when the car is very warmed up, after a half-hour or so of driving, and only at the 18mph-gear shift. It's happening more frequently now that the weather is getting warmer. I suggested a service tech take the car home for the weekend, do a lot of low mph driving to keep putting it through that shift change. One of the service managers believes if they do find the problem, it’ll be electrical. Doesn’t make sense to me, but hard to demand a new transmission when I don’t know what’s causing the problem. They checked the fluid levels and transmission computer, everything reads OK.
I was hoping someone else was having the same problem. Is there another discussion board I should check? I’m not car savvy enough to know what kind of transmission it is.
How sick is it that Edmunds neglects its own tool- "True Cost to Own" and instead uses sticker price to ACCOUNT FOR 30% of a vehicles overall ranking? Basically, this says that for 30% of the vehicles overall score, one number, regardless of equipment level, is the determinant.
~alpha
ion_owner : I always tell people the same thing in cases where a problem is intermitant. Video tape it happening. Should be able to see the slipping on the tachometer or hear it. I had a problem with a faulty temp gauge once and that's how I proved it to the dealer and it was replaced immediately.
Dear Sir:
I just read your 2003 Small Car Comparison and I have a few issues. First is the way you tested an Ion 2 instead of an Ion 3. Your winner, the Honda Civic EX, stickered for almost $2000 more than the Ion did. The Ion 3 would have given a better representation of the model versus these competitors. Actually, you could have an Ion 3 equipped like your test Civic for $17,995--about $575 less than the Civic EX tested. This Ion would still have only ranked 4th on the list by price. As a matter of fact, on top of the ABS with traction control, 5 speed automatic transmission, head curtain side airbags and sunroof, you could add the auto dimming rear view mirror with external temperature and compass, maplights, floor mats, and the Saturn Advanced Audio System with 6 premium speakers and an amplifier and still only been at $18,565--or $5 cheaper than the Civic. In addition, the Ion 3 offers other niceties over the Ion 2 such as 16" alloy wheels with performance tires, fog lights, center console, rear cupholders and upgraded seat material. I feel certain these differences would have changed the perception of the Ion in this group. No, I do not work for Saturn. Yes, I do own a Saturn. However, these feeling are based on what I feel are unfair advantages given to the Honda here. I feel you are comparing apples to oranges with these cars. I do not feel the Saturn should have won. I know the Ion is not perfect.
My second issue is the way you tested a Civic EX instead of the Civic LX. The LX would have been priced more competitively. I also feel as though your high regard for the Honda name would not have been so apparent had you not had the VTEC technology and 12 additional horsepower, 14" wheels, no sunroof, no height adjustable seating, no keyless entry, no rear cupholders and no ABS. I think your test gives way too much credibility to the lesser Civic models.
My third issue is the Hyundai Elantra finishing second. I'm not bashing the Elantra. I know your team likes them and I do too. I've owned Hyundai and Kia products in the past and I know they are not bad cars. My issue is in where the Elantra finished in the individual segments. The Elantra had the 5th best engine, 7th best transmission, 6th best brakes, 6th best suspension, 4th best tires, and 6th best steering. I'm not even going to get into its poor crash test results as found by the IIHS. It did pretty well in the subjective areas, but not enough to finish 2nd overall. It had an average finish of 5.6 in the important areas I highlighted--how could it possibly be the 2nd best car overall?
Speaking of subjectiveness, I have my fourth issue. If you are going to subjectively rank the Ion 8th--or worst--in areas like overall build quality, design, climate control and secondary control operation, interior design, rattles, seat comfort and (my personal favorite) "fun to drive" then I should think you could at least print a detailed list of examples of each failing. Just throwing numbers out there with nothing to back it up is a waste of time and should not be taken seriously by anyone who reads it. What I find interesting, you may find revolting. That does not mean the car is at fault. It just means you like boring Civics. It's called personal preference, and it is hard to judge and quantify. I also feel that had you chosen an Ion 3 equipped like a Civic EX the personal preferences may not have been so greatly divided.
In short, do I feel the Civic did not deserve to win? No, maybe it did. Is the Saturn last? In the form you tested, maybe. In a form more in line with its competitors, absolutely not. Maybe not the best--but certainly not the worst.
Thank you,
Clay Waterfill
Duluth, GA
770-
"uga91" in Town Hall
~alpha
A few thoughts on the comparison. I actually own a 2003 Civic and 2002 Corolla and have previously owned an Elantra and Saturn. I have driven all of the cars they tested although mostly in the mid trim level.
They ranked the cars on the overall driving feel, quality etc, even though some scored better in certain areas. Some of you think they are biased. I agree - but I have never seen a comparison that was not.
Edmunds had the guts to recognize the Elantra when few other car mags would. I have driven these on the autobahn in Germany at 170 kmph for long trips and I can tell you how good they are. Kudos to the Elantra and any proud owners out there.
However my ranking would be Civic, Corolla, Protege, Sentra, Lancer, Elantra, Aerio and Ion (based on my own needs which ranks quality and refinement above power and interior space).
But the gap from best to least is not that big - IMHO eight flavours ranging from very good to excellent.
Any one of these cars would be a good choice and if you are on a tight budget the deals could really sway in favour of the Aerio or Ion.