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I thought I saw a 2nd ION on the highway behind me this morning, but noticed it didn't have the DRLs on. Turns out the car was a 1999 Sentra when it got closer...
Also factoring into my decision has been how long the cars have been in production. The ION since about Aug., '02 and the Vibe since about April, '02. Both have proven engines. I have also been loosely considering potential re-sale value, though I will probably keep any vehicle until my first alternate fuel vehicle in 10-12 yrs, he says wistfully...
vuefor2: It's encouraging to hear that people are getting advertised EPA sticker mileage. My Honda is just the worst relative to sticker.
vocus: Where'd you see the ION for $9995? I'm in northern Virginia. With AC?
Sales rep told me I could get in one via order, in 10 days.
How do those that actually own the ION feel about them? How's your mpg? Are they fun to drive? Any problems yet? Would you buy it again? Thanks.
I decided to go test drive the Ion again this weekend with a close friend who is in the market. When I first tested the car earlier in the year I did not like anything about the car except the engine and the ride.
Having owned and enjoyed my new 2003 Civic for several months now the difference is even more stark. The Ion drives well and has a quiet ride but the odd appearance (although the outside has grown on me), terrible seats/interior and awful manual shifter are a big minuses in my opinion. To add insult to injury, the price out the door here in Toronto is slightly higher on the Ion2 than on a comparable Civic (DX-G). You can haggle on the Civic to bring the price lower but the only way the Ion works out the same is with low financing. I got a price with zero down on both vehicles and it was a wash. If you have a GM Visa (like my friend), the Ion can be slightly cheaper.
I do not doubt the Ion will be a good car having owned two previous Saturns but the Japanese and even the Koreans are building better small cars these days.
At the end of the day, this market is all about competent conservatively styled, high quality cars. The Civic, Corolla, Protege, Sentra and Elantra are all nicer - with similar equipment they are all priced within a few hundred dollars of each other.
The only problem I have had was detached weather stripping on a rear door. This was cheerfully repaired by the dealer.
This is my 6th Saturn.
If you like it, buy it!
Well said!
Always buy the car you love and don't worry if it is selling or not. It may affect resale (although the SLs have done well in the past), but you will have enjoyed the car you like for many years in the meantime.
Sales have not (yet) taken off because of its controversial styling, not because it is a bad car.
No issues to report at all.
;-)
Isuzu Axiom
used BMW 3 series AWD wagon
Accord
A4
Saab 9/3 Vector
CTS
Maxima 2004
Susucki Aerio
Mitsubishi Lancer
but this was what I was able to test drive
Toyota Matrix XRS
Saab 9/3 Linear
Mazda Protege 5
Mazda 6i
Mazda 6s
Saturn Ion
You can see a wide range there...but what I want to do is keep many options open. Baby and new house both due first week of Sept. and still figuring out possibilites for maybe making a switch on my Taurus SLO, which I still love, but am looking at new tires, brakes, other general maintainance stuff. Plus the trunk is a bit small for even a stroller. Might want to trim car expenses some too.
This is where a car like the Ion becomes viable. Even with all my 'bashing', something like an Ion 1 remains viable because it is way cheap, at least in Ion 1 form, and with rebates and stuff. Also GM card. I don't think I can consider Ion 2 or 3 as it gets into price classes where it seems to make more sense to go with other options.
next post.....
As far as exterior styling I have been able to get used to it enough so that it doesn't bother me. Its fine. The silver is not, though. I would need a different color. The Ion 1 has small wheels and hubcaps, so that would be the first to go. I would immediately get some 16" or if possible 17" wheels, to improve looks, and handling/ stability. Of course you will note the Ion 1 has black door handles.
Underhood packaging is nice and simple and the battery in the trunk may have advantages int he future when you need a jump start. I have to admit to being impressed with the trunk size which is actually bigger than the 9/3.
Now the Ion 1 doesn't have an adjustable drivers seat, so this evaluation is a bit limiting. I felt the seat was somewhat unsupportive, but not to a detrimental point. At least the seat is wide enough. I am fine with the seat cloth in the 1. Its just too bad you are limited to gray only. Shoulder room is very good for a car this size. The Protege 5 has good interior room in front as well. An armrest would be the first purchase with an Ion.
Fit and finish of the interior is mostly typical per GM so I won't go into it much but I think it was maybe better than a typical Pontiyuck. The gray plastics were not wonderful but again not as bad as a Pontiyuck. Its not a Corolla but not a penalty box. As I have said before the steering wheel is the prime offender and I understand its already due for replacement. I also was it was a bit bigger. Controls seemed accessible. I was impressed with the location of the shifter and the size of the shifter ball. It fell right into the perfect spot (for me). I felt the seat comfort was ok for the short drive, you can only tell if a seat is bad after a long long test drive. You all know I don't like the center gauges, and I still don't but if I wanted the car I wouldn't hesitate on that issue. So I would give the interior a 'C' or 'C+' mostly on the good size.
I started it up and initially the engine seemed rather coarse, but I must admit, not as coarse as the protege mill. Very good power actually, much more gusto at 75+ mph than my old Prizm. Once on the road, the noise goes away more and is pretty smooth for the most part. At 80mph it was fine. Not liquid smooth like the 9/3 (is it really a four cylinder? can't be!) but actually is more refined than the Mazda mill. With the stick I felt the power was very good. Nothing to gripe about. Loved the hydraulic clutch. Got good feeling from it, didn't feel sloppy like the Protege. Road noise was good, that being it was fairly quiet. Not much wind noise, so good job there.
next post....
Visibility out of the car is quite good.
I think now I can see why Car and Driver said that deep inside is a good car waiting to come out. Maybe an inexpensive touring suspension option would be the ticket for those who might like it.
I think as a commuter car with 4 doors the Ion is probably fine. At 10,300 dollars (for me) I can't rip on it very much, as compared to an Accent. I could live with it every day I think. Its a big jump over the Cadaver. For me, a 4 door Focus would be a bout 2 grand more and having driven my sister's ZX3 I know it drives better. But a wagon or ZX5 costs more still.
I think GM would be wise to do some interior mods and upgrades and fix the sloppy steering and tighten up the bounciness in the suspension just a bit.
I could buy the car as is and be happy with it for 10,300. And Ion 2 or 3 I would not be a s forgiving but for those that like it I think they can be justified by the postives it does have. If I were asked to put down 13-15 thousand I would go elsewhere most likely. The Ion needs a trip to finishing school but for most looking for good value transportation I think you can give it a positive endorsement.
If I buy one I would go with the tire wheels from Tire Rack and maybe check into aftermarket leather. I would like a sunroof, but for factory install you need Ion 2. They can put one in a base model but I'm not sure if that's a factory spec install and will it be too pricey. I thought about a Sparco driver's seat, but I could probably be fine with the seats as is. The stereo looks easily replacable, that's the first thing to go.
If I buy one this fall, I'm driving the living snot out of it. I'm gonna beat the crap on the thing and try and have as much fun as I can with it. Nice thing is that Saturns are a safer car and so no worries there with a new kid along for the ride in the back seat.
ION is a good car that could be better with some minor changes. I agree with you on the price though, go any higher than an ION 2 and the price gets too high. A lady here in the office just bought a Corolla sport and paid more than my Alero and no 0% financing deals. It's no econo box at those prices.
A Corolla LE auto with ABS is about $16,700 on the sticker. What is so unbelievable about that?
~alpha
And if I was comparing a 14000 Ion to others, I may be feel compelled to spend an extra grand or two on something nicer if I had the money available. Like a Jetta or something.
Really my own opinions......to me an Ion makes sense up to maybe 12,500 or 13 or so but after that I would hedge and go look for something else. It doesn't mean its not a good car but for me what it means that after a certain price point the deficiencies it does have aren't worth the money.
I'll update y'all on my other test drives when i get home.
I would buy an ION if I was looking for more basic transport. With rebates however, some midsize choices are right in the thick of ION territory which is why Saturn had no choice but to add incentives. Most others are there now also.
Purchasing the Ion 1 makes sense. It was exactly my sentiment that the 2 and 3 start running into Civic/Corolla territory. Both my previous Saturns were base SL models as the more expensive SL1 and SL2 versions were not as refined as comparable Japanese vehicles.
Dindak raises an interesting point that the Alero/Taurus and other value priced midsized cars. Right now they are similar in price - or sometimes cheaper - than loaded compacts. Here in the Toronto area the latter are very popular. I see lots of loaded Corolla LEs and Acura ELs (our Civic EX) as well as top end Sentras/Elantras and Proteges (Canadians love small cars).
For a family the Ion 1 is a good choice. Lots of plastic inside to wipe clean for fingerprints and other kiddie dirt etc. The cloth in my Civic/Corolla is not as forgiving.
As an engineer, I always look at the functional aspects of a vehicle purchase first. All else being equal, I have always preferred a small, fairly simple, but refined car.
In the past I was on a very tight budget so lowest cost of purchase/ ownership and high reliability were the major selection criteria. This meant paying about $3 K more for a basic Japanese car versus a Saturn SL. Since the Saturn's are just as reliable, and offer better customer service, I bought them. The S series was a good car for the money, but not the equal of the Japanese designs. I would say the Ion 1's value proposition is similar.
This time I wanted ac, pl, cd etc. This bumps into the Ion2, Civic DX-G, Corolla CE Plus which in Toronto without financing cost about the same. Trade-in value for my Saturn SL was similar at all of the dealerships. But, both the Japanese cars (in my evaluation) were better built and more refined therefore offered me better value for the same money.
As a number of posters have pointed out, the Civic/Corolla are not the most price competitive at the really base level or top-of-the-line fully loaded, but the mid grade levels offer excellent value.
Perhaps ION aficionados should practice what they preach:
"Protege and Focus were not on our shopping list. Focus is a car I just do not like at all. I have never even ridden in one; but, I can just tell I would not like it."
Also, even though Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Ford/Mazda etc. dealers arent recognized by JD Power for exceptional service, its not to say there NO dealerships selling these cars that arent a cut above the rest. In purchasing my recent Sentra 2.5LE, I dont think I could have been treat ANY better, even if I was at a Saturn dealership.
The fact that Saturn, as a brand, ensures amazing service has no real connection to the product, at least not for me. I'd rather have a car based on its value and merits than based on outstanding treatment at the dealer. How much time do you really spend there anyway, especially in comparison to the time you spend with your vehicle?
~alpha
"And Ion 2 or 3 I would not be as forgiving but for those that like it I think they can be justified by the postives it does have."
Following that post the posts that dindak and alpha make have lots of really valid points. Especially
"My point is that if I am paying more for a car I expect a better car"
Lowest price isn't the key here, its feeling of value per dollar spent. We all have our own interpretations of what value means.
In the case of the Ion, its a decent car. But there is a point for many of us where it crosses a price line that it just gets too expensive for what you get in return. It doesn't make it a bad car at all.
I am bothered by the notion that Saturn makes the best low priced entry for value though. I mean, about 6 or 7 competitors in this class aside from the Corolla, Civic, and Jetta can equal or better the Ion in many areas and be around that 13-15 grand range of the ion 2 and 3. If we are talking compacts only (not mid sizers)
Elantra - often can be had loaded for about 12k
Proteges- well equipped for about the same as an Ion2 or 3, I have seen as low as 12 grand new
Sentras, Lancers- around 13.5k well equipped
Focus- depending on config anywhere from about 11k to 17k
Neon- loaded with Sunroof and leather for dirt cheap, basic models cheaper than Ions
As far as the value of the Saturn 'experience', yeah that's great. But I would prefer to endure 6-8 hours of the jerk at the dealer at the start if it means I end up with a better car for the same money over the long haul.
Every little bit helps, or so they say.
Actually, that's not so true. I had my Ion3 in service this past Saturday (one of their busiest days) having the oil changed and I was in and out of there in no time at all. In the two previous Saturns that I've had, I had to take them in for different sorts of service and it didn't take long as well. If it was going to take too long and I didn't have a way back home, work, etc., they put me in a fleet car.
Even those on this board who did not choose the Ion in the end, respect the car for its basic goodness (engine, interior space, service, plastic panels etc). IMHO all Saturns share this fundamental DNA.
You are correct that all vehicles in this class are cheap. Because they are cheap, each one represents a different series of compromises and tradeoffs. My Civic and Corolla are smaller than the your Ion and less powerful but they have other qualities which compensate and meet my overall value requirements. Regfootball made the similar point although possibly with different choices. Dindak chose to go to a larger car for similar money.
No one on this board needs to defend a choice but discussion of perceived differences is helpful. I read all the threads of the Civic/Corolla and other boards to hear what people were saying - good and bad.
Oddly some of the things you identify that you dislike about your Ion are the sames things I dislike about my Civic! Like you said they are all cheaper cars, none of them is a Lexus.
Happy driving.
All I know is there is aboot 15 compacts to pick from and all have their strengths.