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CR-V vs Escape

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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Interesting that the Liberty has a slightly higher static factor for roll-over, but did not exhibit tipping during their dynamic tests. The VUE was about the same as the Escape.

    No other small SUVs have been tested at this time."

    Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the CR-V numbers...
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    oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Another interesting point from the CR report was that the 2005 Escape's stopping distances were significantly longer than previous test results... presumably from a change in original equipment tires.

    As I recall the 4 foot advantage that the Escape had over the CR-V in stopping distance was the cause of a great deal crowing from some (unnamed) Ford supporters. Perhaps it's time to revisit that issue and "eat crow". ;)

    james
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,329
    re: "Not a big deal though, as V6 engines tend to have broad torque curves." v8's are even better :)

    many engines are tuned for a flat torque curve.
    my guess is that the escape v6 torque output is greater at all rpm's than the crv's 4.
    i don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion about 'feel', just the way you are trying to demostrate it.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    ...a V6 Escape is LIMITED to, not "only capable of", towing 3500lbs due to the class II trailer hitch it comes with. A few people have posted on another forum that they have safely towed more with a stronger/larger hitch. I'm sure trailer brakes were present too. At least I hope they were!
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    drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    Not sure what you mean about change in tires. I believe it was tested with the Continental tires that come stock.

    "It had the longest braking distance and lowest maximum speed in the avoidance maneuver..."

    Someone kept insisting 4 feet of braking distance makes a huge difference. I guess they were right.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "my guess is that the escape v6 torque output is greater at all rpm's than the crv's 4."

    That would have been my guess, too. However, a rudimentary comparison we did a long, long time ago suggested that the CR-V actually matched the Escape in the lower revs. Unfortunately, we don't have a real torque curve for the Escape. I think what we did the other year was to calculate torque based on a HP curve someone found floating around on the web. I don't think we ever confirmed its source.

    Regardless, if we assume a 10 lb-ft advantage for the Escape at the rpms below 3,000, the CR-V still has greater thrust due to its shorter gearing and the extra weight in a V6 Escape.

    As near as I can tell, the only two "problems" with the method I've used for illustrating the feel of thrust are the assumption of WOT and peak RPM. Most people do not drive with their right foot pressed to the floor. So using WOT is a tad unrealistic. Nor do most people rev the engine to 4,850 rpms during daily driving. So the calculation does not reflect what a driver would feel during normal driving. Instead, it highlights the maximum capability of the vehicle.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,329
    i'll admit, i've never driven a crv. what i have noticed is that the escape seems to have more ' launch' built into the throttle than my explorer(v8, 3.73 rear end). it takes me about a day or so to get used to it. i'm not sure if it's the computer getting used to me, or the other way around :)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Try and try and try to make the 4cyl CRV out to be as powerful as the V6 in the Escape... I read your posts and get a nice laugh..
    I am confident and comfortable that anyone who even takes a test drive in an automatic 4cyl CRV vs an Automatic v6 Escape will see for themselves the Escape is the winner in this category...
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    of my 01 Escape XLT V6 4WD.. How many 01 CRV owners can say that! I got .9 percent financing for 3 years! How many CRV owners can say that? Also at the time got 500 cash back! How many CRV owners can say that?....
    Contemplating on an 05... Do like the new interior and they are quieter...Mine also doesn't have the side air bags.. weren't available then.. Am going to need new tires soon and a brake job.... Nice not having a car payment though!@.... choices, choices.....
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    jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    Actually I posted a couple weeks ago about this exact same topic. I test drove both, back to back within 1 hour of each other. I couldn't 'feel' the difference between the two; this comment has since sparked a massive debate in the days that followed.

    I'm sure loaded down the 6 certainly smiles down on the Honda 4, but with 3 passengers in the vehicles I honestly couldn't really tell much difference between the two.

    For 05 the CRV is getting a 5 speed auto tranny; I would imagine this will likely blur the line further.

    Jopopsy
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    snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    I am sure any enthusiastic V6 escape owner will take the immeasurable joy to kick I4 CRV’s [non-permissible content removed] on the highway.

    It is nonsense that some CRV owners are trying to impose the idea that I4 CRV has the same power as V6 Escape, please get a grip…
    Varmint, please stop implementing calculations with biased assumptions and numbers, your posts are not objective…
    Jopopsy, you should definitely stick with CRV since you can’t feel the difference….
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "It is nonsense that some CRV owners are trying to impose the idea that I4 CRV has the same power as V6 Escape, please get a grip…
    Varmint, please stop implementing calculations with biased assumptions and numbers, your posts are not objective…
    Jopopsy, you should definitely stick with CRV since you can’t feel the difference…. "

    No one is saying the CR-V has the same power as the Escape V6, just that it has plenty of power for it's own needs. I myself have chirped the rear tires ( which kick in when the front wheels start to spin) when taking off from a standing start. I have had to adjust my foot to prevent it. It is a matter of gearing and RPMs; the Honda is built for a certain RPM range.

    The question is: does the CR-V have sufficient power for it's needs? The answer is yes.

    Comparing the two vehicles, some people will only look at "V4" and "V6" and think that the CR-V will perform the same as the Escape V4; this is entirely wrong - the CR-V performs much better than the 4 cyl in the Escape. This is possibly due to the fact that the CR-V was designed from scratch to work with a 4 cyl, whereas the Escape has always had the V6, and performs best with that engine.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I never said that the CR-V had more power than an Escape V6. I've said that the Escape is fat and has poor gearing. Is that plain enough for you to understand?
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Actually, the 2005 model gets heavier. I haven't done the math, but it probably cancels any advantage in the lower gearing with the 5 speed auto.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Yeah, your experience with the Explorer and Escape could be due to any number of things. It could simply be the throttle response or it might be the gearing. Both will impact how the truck feels.
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    snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    You could be a very good politician...:-))
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Because I don't let people put words in my mouth?

    Sorry, Snowman, but I've been consistent from the beginning. I never claimed that I was talking about "power". In fact, I specifically stated that the Escape's V6 has more power in the original post on this subject. I also posted caveats about these numbers not applying to towing, acceleration, or hauling capacity.

    Read it again. It's all there.

    varmint Sep 4, 2004 7:28pm

    The fact of the matter is engine power is meaningless without factoring weight and gearing.
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    ottawanottawan Member Posts: 31
    One reason why I'm not considering CRV as my next car is a lack of side curtain airbags, second row protection.
    But Escape/Tribute have them, so they are in the list...
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    snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    Over all performance of any vehicle is measured by many factors like torque, HP, thrust (as you put), hauling capacity, and many other little pieces. They come together and create a performance.
    Now, what you do is picking up some of these little pieces that CRV "may have" better figures and comparing them to counterparts on Escape. CRV may have strong numbers on certain things but overall it is weaker than V6 Escape. I believe this is a fact.
    You are not willing to take htis as a fact because you drive CRV. I don't own CRV, I don't own Escape. I just test drove them...
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    snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    "Because I don't let people put words in my mouth?"

    Not really, but because you were flip-flapping...LOL
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    drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    Well you better put the CR-V back on your list.

    The '05 will have side curtain airbags plus a host of other additions. All for an MSRP of only $310 more for the EX trim than the '04. The gap widens.

    I know people don't like to search around here, but three pages back is all the info you seem to have missed. Here's a link from the CR-V thread here as well.

    http://www.hondanews.com/CatID1000?mid=2004091059654&mime=asc
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    drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    At one time Edmund's had a topic for people who are paying off their vehicles, maybe you should post there.

    I hope you enjoyed those incentives. They won't help your resale.

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/cst-fin-autos24.html
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    ottawanottawan Member Posts: 31
    Thanks,
    I got sick by reading the recent "HP" discussion, and missed really important things :-)
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    drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    Occasionally some good info gets through. IMO these are pretty significant mid cycle changes for the '05 CR-V. I'm sure they felt a little pressure but they responded very well. It was a great deal before, that much better now.
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    ottawanottawan Member Posts: 31
    Actually, it's not clear whether they cover second row or not...
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    True. The press release does leave a little room for doubt about the second row. However, if you read between the lines, it seems very likely that the curtain bags will cover both rows.

    Here is the quote from that link.

    "In accordance with Honda's industry-leading 'Safety for Everyone' program, all CR-Vs will now come equipped with a longer list of standard safety equipment including front side airbags, side curtain airbags, and Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control."

    Notice that they specify "front" side airbags for the seat mounted units. There is no such clarification for the curtain style bags. If they were front only, you would think that the text would say so, just like the side bags.

    Also, every other Honda with curtain style bags has them in both rows.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Sorry. In the context of this discussion, I never wrote that the CR-V was more powerful. You're just making stuff up to create a strawman argument. Unless you can prove where I've changed my position, this is not worth my time.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Over all performance of any vehicle is measured by many factors like torque, HP, thrust (as you put), hauling capacity, and many other little pieces. They come together and create a performance.
    Now, what you do is picking up some of these little pieces that CRV "may have" better figures and comparing them to counterparts on Escape. CRV may have strong numbers on certain things but overall it is weaker than V6 Escape. I believe this is a fact."

    Couldn't agree more, except for your last couple of sentences. I also drove both - and a CR-V sits in my driveway. Overall, I prefer Honda engineering, and the ones I test drove showed build quality to be much better on the Honda, which led me to believe it would last longer. There were a whole mass of reasons I went with the CR-V (including the fact that I don't plan to tow anything), which tipped the scale in favor of the Honda over the Ford. Other people go the other way and buy the Escape.

    Now if I could just figure out some reason I need a 2005 CR-V, rather than just want one...
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    ottawanottawan Member Posts: 31
    Would be nice to have them on both rows...
    What do you think about heated mirrors?
    Will they come on overpriced(IMHO) SE version only, together with leather seats?
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    suvtimesuvtime Member Posts: 58
    Heated mirrors are already available on the CR-V in Canada on the EX
    and EX-L trims. I would think they will continue to be available on these lines along with the SE.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "What do you think about heated mirrors?
    Will they come on overpriced(IMHO) SE version only, together with leather seats? "

    Stateside we only get them on the SE.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,329
    The performance "feel" is very subjective, because of the engine sound tuning, interior soundproofing, etc.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I'll hold onto my 01 Ford Escape for now. It runs great and most of all... its paid for in 3 months! I am catching bits and pieces of the 2007 Ford Escape around the internet and it sounds like it is going to be a whole new look, newer V6, more safety features..
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Wow! this is catching steam on the internet and here at Edmunds.. Is this a defect? Is Honda trying to hush, hush this problem or what??
    Smoking CRV in your gargage??
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    snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    That is another reason that CRV is not in my shopping list. For sure, I won't buy any vehicle I can't service my self (of course, up to certain degree).
    Honda is infamous of keeping vehicle information away from DIY. At the other side, Escape information is all over the place. No worries for me while I am changing oil, or specs/tips/tricks are available when I am chaging plugs, sensors etc, you name it.
    Honda parts also are more expensive.
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    jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    The better choice is a Subaru Forester. Excellent saftey, superior AWD system, good content, good mileage. Suffers a bit in space but for me, the other pros make up for it easily. Plus, they're not catchin' on fire and the warranty is very nice. Should have researched them earlier.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    You forgot to mention weak engine (non XT of course) and overpriced.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    The Forester's engine isn't weak, it's just rough around the edges. With only 3,000 lbs to tote around, the non-turbo Forester is a modest performer.

    Now that they've added drive-by-wire, the fuel economy has been boosted, as well. It's a decent little buggy if you don't need much passenger space.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Plus, they're not catchin' on fire and the warranty is very nice. Should have researched them earlier. "

    Well, you may have spoken too soon. I just read about Subaru announcing a recall to prevent fires affecting 2000-2003 Foresters. Unfortuately, I can't find the URL right now. It was something to do with the fuel pump. At least they know what the problem is; I don't really think Honda has a handle on the causes.
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    You might try your browser's history to find the missing link. :-)

    tidester, host
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I just noticed that story; haven't found one yet that doesn't require registration, except this one:

    Fuji Heavy to recall 23,000 Impreza, Forester cars (Japan Today)

    The other headlines I found indicate that there's a fire risk.

    Steve, Host
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Suzuki just recalled the Grand Vitara/Tracker for potential fires this past month, but I believe it was fuel (not oil) related. We're all gonna die. =)
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,329
    they only stall :)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    Yeah seems to me people in glass houses....

    Show me the perfect vehicle. Subarus are getting recalled for fires. Some other vehicle which I can't seem to recall just got recalled (man I love this) for engine fires. Local news just teased a story about a "popular car whose engines can blow up". It isn't a Honda they're talking about. Problems are everywhere.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,329
    chill buddy. i put a smiley on there. it means "i'm just having a little fun."
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    drive62drive62 Member Posts: 637
    I was saying that no vehicle is perfect. I think that's what you were saying too, no? In other words, I was agreeing with you.

    "Glass houses" refers to someone who seems to be taking pleasure with one vehicle's problems when their own also had plenty of issues.

    :) There's my smilie. I always chill. It's only cars.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,329
    wasn't sure, but i agree, too.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The Forester's engine isn't weak, it's just rough around the edges.

    To me it's weak. Didn't you guys just spend countless hours arguing about "feel"? :)
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    jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    Yes, and the whole 'feel' convo/thread was started by yours truly. I've driven a friend's Forester last weekend. If 'felt' less sprighty then the CR-V, however it didn't seem to LUG as much as the Escape FELT to me.

    Heh, that should do it. Light 'em up gang.
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    ottawanottawan Member Posts: 31
    "Subaru Forester. Excellent safety"

    It doesn't have airbags for second row...
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