Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Let me try again!!!!!! First of all, I will try to find the site that talked about this but it was some time ago............I read an article that stated that now the SUV market is very crowded and choices are abundant. The 2 best at this time seem to be the CRV and Escape/Tribute (small SUV!). Many CRV buyers are return buyers (as they called it) because this product has been around for a while and has proven its worth, whereas the Escape is new to this segment therefore many buyers are researching and finding these two vehicles to be the most attractive at around the same price and choosing one of them not necessarily having owned Ford before because they were not players in this market until now. CLEAR?
#2
When I said "gut feeling".........I meant that when a vehicle feels good to you you buy it! Simple! I hope that's what you did because that's how I feel about all the Honda's I have owned.
I am happy that you have had no problems with your vehicles (Ford) as I have in the past and that led me to stray away from the domestics BUT ONCE AGAIN......those have been MY experiences ONLY!!!! I am not trying to tell YOU what to do because that would be useless. The thread here is CRV vs. ESCAPE and my experience was nothing short of terrible so that is where my points fit in here! I hope we can move on to something else now instead of you questioning my integrity! Nothing more, nothing less.....COOL?
Baggs, Honda has not always been the highest resale value company but has always been in the top three! I am a little surprised at volks even though I like their products I find them expensive. Acura is not really in the league of BMW or Mercedes as MY personal choice of the ultimate vehicle would aways be a BMW! SURPRISE!!!!
Baggs, I like your salesman theories....they are VERY realistic. I have never really met a salesman that I liked anyways and has yousaid, it is incredible how much they don't know about the car you trying out! When I got my CRV, the salesman took three tries to get the contract right and he has been there for about 5 years now!!! I hope when I get my new one next week, it will be better!!!?
Thanks Steve! You know you are treading on dangerous ground!!!????
Yes, they can. Too bad Ford has failed to in the past 30 years.
"Sorry, but the CRV and Escape are both very good reliable vehicles." - Bess
I'm with you, except for the word "reliable". There is no evidence to prove that the Escape is reliable. To the contrary, there is significant evidence showing that it is not.
This survey is based on both the vehicle and the dealership experience. We know that Honda dealers are ranked near the bottom of the list. So if the dealership experience wasn't so grand, how did the CR-V win? Must be the merits of the vehicle.
...and that survey was done in late 2001 when the Escape recalls were just starting to be forgotten. Like I said, recalls + poor dealers (for the most part) = not on the list for Ford. It is also unclear as to whether or not they only surveyed 2002 CR-V buyers or both 2002 and 2001 buyers. They just tell us that the people bought a vehicle in Nov. or Dec. of 2001.
I didn't realize that Honda dealers were ranked so low when it comes to sales experience. I can see why, but I thought they were better than that.
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=540&CatID=1
They do rank much higher in J.D. Power for service experience though. I'm not going to disagree with that as I've had a few bad experiences with Ford service depts. myself. The only thing I didn't like about Honda's service was the outrageously high prices.
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=635&CatID=1
oops
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
A CARAVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! For more pep??? I won't even go there!
Varmint
haha! I get that feeling too BUT we got into this so now we are stuck!
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Scape2 in reference to your numerous posts,
Excellent milieage with the AC ON, two people, one dog and the back of the vehicle loaded up to the ceiling with a chair, books, and many other dense material! I never had any problems with the CRV dogging up any of the monster hills! Whiny engine??? Not as loud as the V6!
So I went back two or three days but there are too many posts to look at all of them since my absence at the end of July! This is one busy board!
I feel the same way, too.
I feel the same way, too.
I never repeat myself myself. :-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
"I never had any problems with the CRV dogging up any of the monster hills! Whiny engine??? Not as loud as the V6!"
That's all a matter of personal opinion. I drove it with only three people inside in the winter with the heat on. It dogged up hills, and became rather raucous consistently.
Where did you go on your trip and what were the hills like?
Hope you had a good time!
The V6 can get a little loud at high (5000+ rpms), but the low end power eliminates my need to hit those marks the majority of the time. I get most of what I need from 1000 - 4000 rpms.
Again, it's all a matter of opinion. The terrain where you live can make some difference as well.
160 horses at 5,500 r.p.m., 10 more than before, doesn't sound like much compared to Nissan's 175-horsepower Altima. Charlie Baker stopped just short of calling Nissan cheaters; he says his car is a bit heavier than Altima, yet outruns it in a 0 - 60 sprint. With 15 fewer horses? Draw you own conclusions.
This is a quote from a test for the new Accord 4 cyl. This is the same engine as the CRV essentially and the weight ratio is VERY close! Even Motor Trend said it acted like a six! I hope that someday you all will accept that fact as it has been proven over and over in many independent tests lately! You may not like it for whatever reason but it is the best 4 in any SUV out there and it is starting to go ahead in sales of the Escape and has the highest resale value!
FORD HAVING TROUBLE MEETING SUV PROMISE
Ford Motor Co. is having serious problems meeting its promised goal of improving SUV fuel economy 25 percent by 2005, conceded Sue Cischke, VP of environmental and safety engineering. In an interview with Reuters, she acknowledged, “It’s not a done deal by any chance and it’s not as easy as some people might think it is.” At the heart of the problem is the fact that some of Ford’s technology assumptions have proven invalid. For one thing, the automaker has scrubbed plans to build a gasoline/electric version of the Explorer because it could not achieve significant increases in fuel economy. (Ford will follow up with a planned launch of the hybrid Escape next year.) There is some speculation in Traverse City that the automaker’s decision to kill the gas-guzzling, full-size Excursion was influenced by the drive to improve SUV fuel economy. And that seemed to be backed up by another comment Cischke made to Reuters. While the 25-percent mileage increase is looking difficult, “it is a commitment we made and it is driving a lot of the actions at the company.”—Paul Eisenstein
Ford Sees Progress Beyond Costs by Jim Burt (8/5/2002)
Ford has been an American icon for generations of Americans. If Ford was this terrible, bad company that you two are preaching, why are they still in business? Why do they even sell 1 car/truck? Why hasn't Honda put them out of business? Why after all these years to people still buy thier products?
The Excursion was cut because of pressure from government/private parties. The Excursion sold fine.. it was all political.
Hosts can and do have POVs and on those occasions when we do participate in discussion on the boards you can be assured that we strive to do it in the most diplomatic terms. With few exceptions, I generally tend to avoid editorial comment on particular vehicles though I am tempted to stir things up once in a while! ;-)
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
The 2.4L in the Accord is actually a bit different from the CR-V. The power curve peaks later in the range and it's probably tuned for better mpg and emmissions.
Scape2 - You have an annoying habit of putting words in my mouth. Point me to the post where I was Ford bashing.
Go read up on grade-logic transmissions.
Once again, no one ever said that the CR-V's 2.4 was as good (for the situations you describe). Our claim is that it is adequate for hauling and has several advantages in other areas.
Scape........please..^please...please let me say this again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was only stating that you and baggs tend to believe that once you put a couple of people on board the CRV, it automatically becomes a snail!!!!! I have (for another 3 days!) a 2001 and even that doesn't do what you say it does. Of course it will down shift and increase rpm's etc... BUT I can still keep a constant speed. However, the new models have half as much problems as before with this as you have 90% of the tourque much earlier along with vtec and other niceties! WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS NOT A V6 HOWEVER!!!!!!! All the tests noted that it is more than sufficient at what it is intended for whereas the Escape/Tribute is more utilitarian(???spelling) in its tasks! Motor Trend chose the Escape because of this. The CRV is for those that want a wagon with all-time 4 wheel drive.....the Escape if for those that want that and more (or less depending on your experience!!).
I am only using the quotes for Ford lately because I have this very strong belief in reliability and I don't care what you say, Honda is going to outlast Ford easily here.....wait until you get to 100000 miles and let me know! Today, Ford is selling shares at 11$ and Honda 21$. Yesterday they were 12.50$ and Honda was 20$. Things are not all that rosey right now at Ford along with stated engineering problems and cheap auto supply parts, something has to give.
I told you Tidester that you would get yourself in hot water!
My favorite car was my Toyota Tercel that wouldn't die, but that was the only Toy I've ever owned; for some reason I'm more partial to Nissans and am on my 3rd. My folks owned a Galaxie 500 that I busted the block on and a Falcon that I got stuck on the railroad track, but successfully extracted before the Memphis bound freight hit it. So I have a bit of a fear of owning another Ford :-)
If you really want to hear about my biases, we can talk Tim Hortons, Krispy Kremes and Dunkin Donuts....
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
We ALL know that fully loaded, you will pass us DUH! That has nothing to do with 0-60 tests! 40hp 40hp 40hp 40hp 40hp! 40lb/feet......................tourque
You kept telling us that the CRV will never beat the Escape and that those tests in magazines were bogus until Motor Trend came along! I could really care less that it beat your vehicle but I thought I would just rub it in! I guess I can't wait to get my new red CRV on Monday!!!!!! Mine is an auto though! Manual is fun but long term it can be a hassle to shift all the time. If I want a sports car I could get the new 350ZX or something but my wife won't let me!
BUT THE QUESTION IS WHY?
Could it be there is nothing positive to post about the escape???
More personal opinion. It looks good on paper, but how you personally think it feels is a different book. Therefore they both need to be driven to find out which one you like.
"I was only stating that you and baggs tend to believe that once you put a couple of people on board the CRV, it automatically becomes a snail!!!!!"
That was my personal opinion that you spun around into something else there, and I never said it was a snail. I'll repeat myself again (we all do that by the way). The 2002 CR-V is adequate for getting around from place to place. I, and unbelievably my wife too, don't like the way in which it does so. It's all about what you want and not what other people say. I read the magazines too and I would never, ever buy a vehicle based on which one they give the higher marks to. I'd do that with a refrigerator, but only because I actually do want it to last forever. Appliance shopping isn't nearly as exciting as car shopping.
"Things are not all that rosy right now at Ford along with stated engineering problems and cheap auto supply parts, something has to give."
Something already did give. That $11 stock was about 3-4 times higher not too long ago.
They are "rebuilding" now and some of "Jaques the Ripper's" foibles are still showing up from time to time. That's just the way it is and so far they seem to be going the right way.
Who better to rebuild Ford than a Ford?
That was pretty bad suvshopper.
"This is the third time I have recorded you guys..."
What are you, some sort of conspiracy nut? (as in a fruit that falls from a tree just to be clear) I'm sure Edmunds has a hidden agenda to destroy the Ford Motor Company via this thread.
"Ford has been an American icon for generations of Americans. If Ford was this terrible, bad company that you two are preaching, why are they still in business? Why do they even sell 1 car/truck? Why hasn't Honda put them out of business? Why after all these years to people still buy thier products?"
Because people are stubborn to change. There is comfort in the familiar. Nobody is saying Ford doesn't make ANY decent products. We're suggesting in OUR opinion Honda is beating the pants off the Escape for what we need. Now my regular discalimer: What I need is great mileage and limited hauling capacity. My choices for that were the _4 CYL._ Escape or the _4 CYL._ CRV. In my opinion that question is a no brainer because Ford can't compete (at this moment) in the 4 cylinder mini-ute class. You can't compare the 6 cyl. to the 4 cyl. You just can't. It's like saying my two candles are brighter than your one. There is an obvious difference/advantage to having 2. I think where the poking comes in from the Honda people is when they notice their one candle is ALMOST as bright as your 2 candles. It's tempting to start comparing them, but it's just not the same thing.
I bet if we pulled a switcheroo and slapped some Ford tags on a CRV you could find people who would then buy it because "It's a Ford". Don't kid yourself, you Ford lovers are JUST AS BLINDED as many Honda lovers are.
"The Excursion was cut because of pressure from government/private parties. The Excursion sold fine.. it was all political."
Did you check this before you posted it? The news reports I heard on the day it was cut stated the reasons for cutting it were increasing pressure from environmental groups and DECLINING SALES. I remember hearing something about 18,000 units, but I don't recall the context. I'll let you find those numbers if you want to prove them wrong.
Hondaman01:
"No matter if you are right or wrong, it still whipped your Escape in 0-60 test manual or not.......it really shouldn't with 40hp less! You said it was almost the same weight!"
Using exaggeration to make your point usually weakens your point.
Whipped? Some articles do state it beats it, but I think saying the CRV "whipped" the Escape is a bit over-zealous.
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_powered_honda/index.htm
You also contradict yourself at times..
"I don't think it was over-zealous at all freeber. It has 40 hp/lb ft of tourque less! I only exagerated this point because I am also growing weary of people saying that this little 4 is only average! "
If I read this quote from you correctly, your saying your not over-zealous but you do exagerate..
I'm just pickin on you, I do agree the Honda is a good vehicle, and I also do believe that Honda clearly makes one of the best 4cyl auto engines on the market.
You mention:
"Honda is going to outlast Ford easily here.....wait until you get to 100000 miles and let me know! "
How many Honda's have you personally or your family owned that lasted over 100k miles? I've owned 2 Fords that went well over 100k miles (one I gave to my father has at 220k miles and he uses it every day, and it is as reliable as ever.
Between my parents and myself, we've had 8 Fords all lasted well over 160k miles before trading in because we just wanted something newer.. I've owned several other Fords that were also reliable but traded them in early in the vehicles life (less than 75k miles). The reason for trading these in wasn't because of reliability, but because of changes in family dynamics and practicality.. Ford Probe + kids don't go well together.
I'm sure you can understand this to some extent, as your looking at getting an 02 CRV, when you have a perfectly fine 01 sitting in your driveway.
I have no doubt that most vehicles built today are easily capable of 100k+ miles if you follow the manufacturers recommended maintenance schedule (oil changes, etc).
You are right that MOST vehicles are made to last but it's how they get to that magic number (100000) that can be quite frustrating! I will admit however, that I think that overall, the Escape/Tribute should do well here compared to some of their previous (and present)models as if this screws up on them, it may be the end for Mazda and a real nightmare for Ford so they are trying hard.........yes, that was a compliment.
bess, I am having fun here too but I still believe in the reliability theory and that point I will defend all the way! I just don't think Ford is consistent......they may have one model do well and 5 do bad.....at least Honda and Acura are quite consistent and even they from time to time have a few problems but they seem to take them so seriously so they won't happen again. Ford has not to this day fixed the stalling problem (personal experience) with the Escape/Tribute! Odd
As in, "That's one bad-looking SUV you got there, dude!"
Still, my comment had a serious point. Blaming the guy at the top for all the ills of a huge manufacturer that has admitted to quality problems seems a bit simplistic to me.
Yes, the head guy has to take responsibility (now there's a novel concept these days), but I figure the manufacturer's assembly-plant 'culture' has to have been going awry for a long time, longer than Jaques short tenure anyway. So I think that the original post made Jaques a scapegoat.
Bill Ford is going to have to do more than make warm-and-fuzzy commercials to correct the problems they've admitted to.
I do wish him well, though.
I would rather have a door that swings to the side with a full size spare then having either a mini spare inside the SUV, or a full size spare under the SUV.
Have you ever got a flat on a unpaved road? I would take the swinging door with the full size spare any day!
Unless you live someplace where you parrallel park everyday, the swinging door is common sense, especially because it includes a full size spare!
Paved or unpaved, I'd rather NOT have my spare hanging on the back of the car, no matter how cool it looks (and it does look cool, I'll give you that. Easy to get at too...which is the problem. Read on). The sucker is too vulnerable there...all kinds of ugly things can happen to something that is that exposed. I'd rather keep my (never-used, in my case) spare in the back (I don't like them under the car either...even WORSE things can happen, and they're a pain there). Keep it under the floor of the cargo area...reasonably out of the way, reasonably easy to get at, and reasonably protected. Nice balance. Besides, I've been driving for 11 years, and on some not terribly nice roads. Never needed a spare. Ever. So no, I don't worry that much about getting a flat on an unpaved road.
By the way, all you wonderful people who have been hailing the latest MotorTrend SUV comparison and citing the wonderful stuff said about the CR-V. Allow me to point out one fact you forgot to mention. The Escape won the comparison.
"Then, there are the Honda and Ford, and choosing a winner is no easier than splitting hairs. Both provide commodious interiors, excellent handling, and potent powertrains. But the Ford is more of a utility player, with it's higher tow rating, family-friendly interior, cargo accessability, and better off-road prowess. So that's where we'd place our down payments."
Clearly they see both vehicles as being excellent, but they just see the Escape as a SLIGHTLY more excellent and versatile vehicle. The Escape wins all but 3 categories in their report card, and (like they said) most of the scores there were VERY close.
I ran into people just like hondaman and varmit in the Toyota room years back when I decided to purchase a Ranger. I heard the constant "its garbage" "not reliable" hoopla.. My Ranger has almost 70,000 miles on it, and these are not easy miles (I 4x4 with it).. not one problem.
the 2000 cRV weighs in at 3219lbs, 02 is 3,287. There is a 16HP and 29ft/lb of torque advantage for the 02 CRV. These stories of the new 2.4 doing just fine carrying heavy loads up hills doesn't add up here folks..
There is something to be said for cranking the filthy flat up under the chassis instead of putting it inside the car, although carrying a garbage bag will solve that problem too.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsuv.asp
Scape2, my CRV still beat the V6 in a drag. It did great up the hills fully loaded. 70 cubic feet of furniture, bags, and books. With the AC on, going up some monster hills, I NEVER ONCE, had any trouble passing anyone up hills whenever I wanted. In addition I got 24 to 26 mpg!
BTW, my lady just sold the V6 back to the dealer becuase it got lousy mileage (16 to 18 mpg) and she is moving to NYC for a little while. When she leaves the city she wants something like the CRV or Forester which has great pep, space and great mileage. We hope the X-Trail comes to the US soon!
Steve, you have had some lousy luck with flat tires! If I were you, I would carry a box of garbage bags!
It's funny how you read posts the way you want to. NO ONE has ever contradicted your comments about the towing and hauling. We question your theories that with 4 people it can barely keep 50! I have (until tomorrow!) a 2001 with 2 kids and stock and even I have little problem going up hills or keeping 50!
I am sure that if it can beat your Escape 0-60 that it can keep up 50 with 500 extra pounds!! Engineer.....hmmmmmmmmmmm!
It just occurred to me that your post a while back said that while you were driving a 2002 CRV through the mountains, the tranny was constantly shifting, trying to find the right gear for the job. Are you sure you drove a 2002 crv?
I say this because the CRV has a grade logic automatic transmission which means when the vehicle is on a certain angle the vehicle will automatically shift down until the hill is done. There is no searching for gears! This was supported on my last mini vacation with a fully loaded vehicle.
Never heard of a grade logic transmission doing that either!!!!