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The CRV we had DID Shift often seeking to find the correct gear.. Could there be something wrong with this CRV?? Thats just unheard of with a Honda! You cannot convince me, nor anyone with 1/2 a brain that 15HP and 29ft/lbs of torque in a vehicle that weighs 72lbs more had no problem hauling heavy loads.. Not going to happen dave..
I had a neighbor who is also a HOnda fanatic... tell me this himself!!
HOndaman, still find it hard to believe you fell for the old "We need your trade, we have people wanting just your year of vehicle" sales pitch@ LOL@! And that a chat room would lead you to go farther into debt!LOL! I have 2 more years to pay on my Escape, I have .9 financing for 3 years.. Gee I wonder how far ahead your going to come out? Your not, and don't even try to manipulate numbers we all know you lost money!
You paid more for the 02 CRV, and more to finance your loan for the CRV. Your going to tell me the dealer was so nice he actually took a loss on the 02 CRV and gave you full Kelly Blue Book for the 00 CRV right?? Give me a break..YOu lost.
Theoretically, would a different set of transmission gear ratios and power curves make a difference? It would seem that a vehicle "searching" for the right gear may not be tuned to a specific speed and incline.
Also, an increase of 15 HP is roughly a 5% increase while 72 pounds greater weight represents less than a 1.8% increase. One might reasonably think that could make a significant difference in marginal situations.
I would advise against estimates of cranial capacity and graymatter quotients as they are both off topic and prone to significant error.
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Hondaman01; do you know of any Canadian venues for after-market accessories?
By the way, I took my name from a previous post and am unashamed to say that I do haul kids with cleats and the CR-V (on paper) beat out the Escape on safety (my top priority), reliability (my husband's top priotity), & price. The only areas I would concede to it are larger engine (for towing )and looks (IMHO). Incidently on test drives we took the kids. Their assesment of back seat comfort was #1 CR-V, #2 Escape (the seatbelt cut into their necks), and #3 Rav-4 (not roomy or cushy enough)
1100$ is all I have to pay! PERIOD! Also, I live in Canada so your figures of whatever you were trying to prove mean nothing to me!
For the last time........this chatroom has nothing to do with any decisions I make in my life as you want to believe that is because I have a life! I also can afford to do this and change cars very often and have never lost a cent! I don't own an Escape.....I own a CRV! It has the highest resale value.....remember or do I have to put up the link again!? Keep your personal comments out of this chatroom. 1/2 a brain! I am wondering why you are still aloud to write here anyways!
To answer your question soccermum02, I find it very hard to get the same acc. as th U.S. but I would suggest that you get the big catalogue from Canadian Tire and look at all the parts they have or can get. If you are looking for something specific, it may be hard. I am not one to really decorate my vehicles but it can be interesting to do so! Also, I am only receiving the new model tonight so I am not really aware of what is available yet but I will look into it. I also got below MSRP cause of the model change so that got me something good. I had everything checked out from my accountant at the office and he said that I was not losing a lot at 1100$ at this dealership and my 2001 is also already sold to an elderly couple......and they even called me to come over and look at mine!! Funny this love affair of Honda right scape?
^p.s. scape I own a 2001 not a 2000!
I didn't even look at the escape/tribute because the CRV met all of my needs, and I've had good experiences with Honda and not with Ford. The RAV4 was ruled out for me because the options were alacarte and expensive. The Subaru was a little too small.
I did drive the 2000 and 2002 CRV's, and can tell you that the engine is torquier, more powerful, and the gearing seems better for acceleration. I don't tow, but haven't had any problem maintaining speeds up hills with full adult passenger compartment. The transmission didn't hunt, either. And, there's a O/D off button, just in case it did, for your next trip.
I can't believe that reasonable people would dismiss the horsepower, more torque, lower torque peak, and gearing changes improving the loaded operation of the 2002 CRV vs the 2001. That's like the difference between a BMW 325 and a 330. It's significant.
But, I don't feel biased, I'm a Nissan Fan
Also, the Explorer outsold the Pilot by an even larger margin, (38,789 vs. 5,361), and if you add on the Mountaineer sales, you would Ford outsold Honda by more than 6 times!
However, sales aren't an accurate way of depicting how the cars run. Chevy sells more Cavaliers than Mercedes do with their C-Classes, but does that tell you which is better? I think not.
Many people think that FORD = 'bad', and HONDA = 'perfect'. Yes, the Civic and Accord are great cars, but Ford spent their resources focusing on trucks, which usually allow for higher profit margins. They sell so many F-Series Trucks, Explorers, Expeditions and Navigators, while Honda scrambles to redesign their CRV, and Pilot. If you are compairing the Escape and the CRV by car standards, Honda has the advantage, but by truck standards, the Escape has the Ford Truck Macho-ism that Honda will never have.
BTW, why would someone complain about gas mileage about a SUV?! IMO it sounds like an oxymoron. SUVs are supposed to be big, oversized, overpowered, a status symbol, and that you can afford tons and tons of gas. If you want fuel economy, go with a focus or a civic.
But Honda owners claim Escape owners aren't seeing the 24Hwy.. I am..
I am going down to trade my Escape in for a CRV! I had my second problem. (First being a squeaky back glass that I fixed). I lost the rubber bushing on my back glass. Don't know if I knocked if off when empting the gear or what? Cost, $1.25, this makes me Escape unreliable!..
(and pardon my canoe bias ).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I received my 2002 last night and have already put about 200km's on it and guess what.......never stalled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only had 300 on the Tribute and it left me stranded twice! Go figure!
Here it is scape NOW PLEASE READ!! I paid "X" for my CRV (2001)... OK so far? Now I had this for 9 months...still ok? Went to a dealer (last week) and he took mine and I paid 1100$ For a new model. You see I got my 2001 at 3200$ below MSRP in the first place cause it was in January 2002 and it was the last one on the lot and had been there for a couple of months. I also paid below MSRP for this one because it is the end of the year! I called 4 other dealers and this one was the best.....so are you still with me here??? To make a long story short, I only lost 1100$ After 9 months.....not bad don't you think? My friend that changed his Escape XLT for a Pilot after 18 months paid 32000$ (Canadian) and only got 23000$ for his return!! That is a lot more than what I lost for sure. You are not investing in real estate with a car as it depreciates the minute you drive away with it........IT IS A CAR!!!! I lost a considerable amount less than I thought and I really wanted this model as I never have a car for more than 2 years if the deal is good.
I work with money everyday in my job and I am lucky to have people that can check this stuff for me and I am also lucky that I don't have to finance my vehicles so this was well verified by people who know what they are doing! Besides, I beleive the dealer made most of his money off my 2001 anyways!
This has nothing to do with knowing my private life scape because I only told you so very little about this and it is relevant to what we are talking about here.It has to do with how you perceive me and others on this board that is frustrating. Your personal views about the CRV are yours but when it comes to saying that I only bought this vehicle to be a better member of this discussion than you have a big problem! I have always wanted the new model and as I said I am lucky to have the ability to change cars often since I can afford to and put a lot of mileage for my job! This has nothing to do with you or anybody else as you were the only one to share your negative comments about this.
It is always a load of fun to make you defend yourself so heavily with your Escape and I have always enjoyed pushing the limit with you until now! Previously, I respected your opinions and always admired the way you defended your choice but to question my integrity is out of bounds of this discussion because if anything, we all question yours a great deal as some of the items you say are not very founded but choose to ignore them so not to go off topic. I question very much your "engineering" skills as you have never given us any indication that you have any yet and I am one that is waiting for that!
Topic is now closed and I wish to move on to how much these 2 vehicles are good at what they were "intended" to do! BUT to also say how much better the CRV is!!! AHHHHH I guess I will touch a few more buttons!
Steve - I also prefer a canoe, but I'm not skilled enough to tackle rapids in one. Lakes and rivers are fine. Class 4 white water is a different animal all together.
As for the trip... My '99 with a mere 146 hp and 133 lb-ft was enough to get us up hills and pass slow logging trucks on the 201. I did have to downshift to 4th when climbing the steepest hills at 55 mph. I don't consider that to be a problem. With about 20% more torque in the lower rpms, I'm sure that the current model would only require a little extra gas pedal. Without the full load, I typically get 27-28 mpg on such trips. This one averaged 26.
Enough power to get the job done and good fuel economy. Where's the problem?
Of course I have not raced my new one yet but I will give her a good try when she gets a couple of thousand km's and really compare. The biggest difference is the interior size and cargo volume that has increased. I love both and each one has its character but I am very pleased to have had this choice right now with my growing kids.
My wife is interested in getting the new 2 door Accord for her pleasure (and mine)as hers is getting up there with 220 000km's even though it is running perfectly.
Is now the time that I should defend all those arguments about the "noisy, gear hunting, gasping 2.4 engine"??? Let me tell you, it is quieter than the Tribute I drove that's for sure.......less suspension noise, rattles and transmission slushing. I have had nothing but compliments this morning and it was fun to take the long way to lunch! Cheers!
It'll get the job done. It's just that not everyone likes the manner in which it does.
hondaman,
Since you keep bringing it up, I'm going to recap for those who are just tuning in.
A Tribute (even the one you rented) with only a few hundred miles on it should not have any rattles, squeaks, suspension noise, or transmission slushing. Our Escape has nearly 5000 miles on the odo, and it does not make a single sound inside.
The stalling/engine dying that you experienced with the rental does not follow the pattern of everyone else who has experienced the real stalling problem (I am one of them). Something else was going on there and it is not representative of every Ford product ever sold. Some people obviously have stalled, but it is always under a unique set of circumstance and the engine starts right back up without problem. Like I said before, it is fixed now, and the fix that they performed on our Escape has made it better in more ways than one.
From all of this, I have come to one of two conclusions. Either the Tribute you rented was abused during its supposed short life, or you really didn't drive one, want one really bad, and are jealous of everyone else who owns one because you are being forced by someone to drive a wimpy little CR-V.
By the way, we stopped at VW, Nissan, and Honda dealerships this weekend to see if we could get a screaming deal on a replacement for our aging Civic (VW is practically giving Jetta's away but they're too small). The Honda dealership had at least ten (that I could see on the main lot) 1999-2001 used CR-V's for the taking. They might be in demand where you live, but they certainly don't appear to be around here.
Remember how we were discussing salesmen? The one who "attacked" us was a real gem. He was doing really well until my wife asked him about the Pilot. He then went into this whole spiel about how the CR-V chassis is based on the Civic's, but the Pilot's is a truck chassis. I couldn't resist that one. Let's just say that he now knows that it is based on the Odyssey's chassis which is essentially a car chassis. I should have asked him which of Honda's zero trucks it was based on. He also pointed out a couple of the Pilot's faults which almost floored me. He couldn't have been there long.
On the other end though, a good friend of mine just bought a 2002 Explorer (to replace their 98)and believed the salesman when he said that it was now built on a car chassis.
I DID rent a Tribute and it DID stall twice and YES it did rattle and the trans was mushy........ so? The first time was at a stop light and I was able to re-start the engine no problem only to have it happen when I stopped again. This time it would not re-start at all so I had it towed. I stayed with the vehicle and they worked on it for a while and I had a nice coffee compliments from Mazda! Eventually they supposedly fixed the problem (something to do with the computer) and I left the friendly dealer. Everything was good until the next day it happened again and I had to have towed once more. I then brought it back to get another vehicle to replace it. I will say that Mazda and the rental company were very good about everything and the service was much better than I would of got from Honda as I agree with you there.
I am very happy that the VW has 10 or so CRV's and I really don't care as the reviews speak for themselves and calling the CRV "wimpy" is a little out of context don't you think?
Are you and scape in the same family??? Insults will get you nowhere!
The Honda dealer had all the CR-V's. I'm guessing everyone is trading them in for new one's or for Pilots.
"Are you and scape in the same family??? Insults will get you nowhere!"
Insulting a vehicle and insulting a person are two different things. To answer your question, no we are not of relation. We just have the same good taste in vehicles.
"I DID rent a Tribute and it DID stall twice and YES it did rattle and the trans was mushy........ so?"
So, something was very wrong with it and I doubt that any of it was a result of past "normal" use.
You are not revealing some dirty little secret that all Escape/Tribute owners are trying to keep so Ford/Mazda will sell more vehicles by repeating your story over and over again. We get it, you had a bad experience with a rented Tribute one time. Do you really think that what happened to you happens to other people on a regular basis if even at all?
If you stalled, couldn't start it again, and had a mushy transmission, something was terribly wrong with that particular rental that didn't originate in the factory. You are the only person I have ever heard of having that many problems at once with the same vehicle.
re: CR-V's interior is ugly? I think it's one of the best interiors available in any small SUV.
When is that rally again??? Is it this weekend or the following weekend? I can't remember off the top of my head. Right now I am in upstate NY, but I grew up in Maine and I love it there. I did lots of kayaking in the Penobscot, and i have also rafted the Kennebec. Gotta love the north woods!
venanzik,
Obviously the looks are subjective... but the CRV interior was a selling point to me. I love the feel and looks of the interior. The Escape feels cheap and when you shut the door it sounds like a "tin sardine can" comapared to the CRV. I do think the Escape looks more attractive on the exterior, although the CRV is really growing on me.
As for your comment:
You are not revealing some dirty little secret that all Escape/Tribute owners are trying to keep so Ford/Mazda will sell more vehicles by repeating your story over and over again. We get it, you had a bad experience with a rented Tribute one time. Do you really think that what happened to you happens to other people on a regular basis if even at all?
I can put back the site about consumer complaints if you wish? I thought that this stalling issue was very dangerous and I am happy it happened at a stop light! Even Motor Trend commented on the Escapes transmission! The one I had never seemed to know what gear to go to. Power was great but the rest was not! Even inside I always felt like I was sitting on a tilt to the right or as if the seat was not bolted properly. My wife and I were not impressed but some evidently are here and that is good.
As I mentioned some time ago, I rent very many vehicles for the company and I have never experienced this type of frustration before. I could just see you or scape having a field day if this happened to you in a CRV!!!! We would never here the end of it. I will comment on the looks, power and Fords courage to take on some big competition and succeeding.
It is nice to know that the Honda dealer has loyal customers (but terrible salesmen!)in your area. The dealer I traded mine in for only had a 98 and mine but he sold mine before I brought it in so I guess their situation is different.
I am happy that you compare your taste to scapes as I have noticed that their are many more positive comments in this discussion for the CRV than the Escape. Maybe you are getting out numbered! I just hope that of all people, you won't turn to insults (like some) to get your point accross as your comments are always appreciated by me!
You say, because your Escape stalled, and other folks have reported that there may be a stalling problem, that what you experienced is the same as what the others have..
The only 'issue' that seemed to be reported more than once is described as stalling which occurs very rarely (on previous models), on an slight downhill at a particular speed (something like 35mph). Also, vehicle would immediately start..
The problem was never classified as 'dangerous'. (another exageration by you?)
What you describe (stalling at lights, can't restart), transmission problems, excessive rattles, tilting seat, is a vehicle that was clearly abused.
(tilting seat? are you sure it wasn't the CRV's seat that was tilted as some have a documented history of a similar problem).
I think many of us have had experiences where our rental cars seemed to be a little more worn (some even abused) more than our own personal vehicles.
You've told your same basic story, (many times), we all know that the Tribute you rented was bad. It is perfectly fine for you to come to your own opinion based on your experience (from a vehicle which you have no idea of the history). It funny that everytime you tell the story, new symptoms seem to get added, (mushy tranny, tilting seat?).
I'm not all that concerned about being 'outnumbered' (sounds like a 5th grade arguement). In what way does being 'outnumbered' (on this board) make the Honda a better vehicle?
26MPG! thats it! I got a strong 23.7 MPG out of my V6 Escape on my last trip. So your saying the CRV gets only 2-3 miles more MPG? Not much of a bargain in my book.. Escpecially when the V6 offers you 40HP and 40ft/lbs of torque to get you up and over those mountains, along with passing power..
Freeb, tried to answer your question but it was deleted. Give me your e-mail address and I will send you a reason.
Bess, there are other factors that make it look like Escape owners are "outnumbered". Get out on the net there are plenty of Escape/Tribute owners out in other chat rooms. And I can easily say over 95% are satisfied, happy, and have reliable vehicles..
Like I said, my lady got lousy mileage, often around 16 to 18 mpg. Rarely got above 20 mpg.
So, 95% of Escape owners may be satisfied on the internet but I can't help but notice... that there are 1600+ Posts in the Escape problems. That is just as many as the Ford Escape discussion and nearly as much as this very popular CRV vs. Escape discussion board!
http://evarmint.home.attbi.com/index.html
Edmunds has sponsored the event with free goodies and we have a good group of people coming.
Bess - For the record, many owners have reported "the stall" during a variety of driving condition. Downhill is only one of them. Also, many others have classified the issue as dangerous.
While I agree that it is a dangerous situation, I do not know that I would consider it the fault of the vehicle that stalls. Apparently, the NHTSA and Honda seem to think that it is. I just received a recall notice for my '99 regarding a problem with an ignition switch, which can lead to a stall. So there is a precedent for stalling that leads to a recall. Dunno how Ford has managed to avoid it this long.
daveghh I have wondered how come there are so many posts (Escape/Tribute problems)myself but was told some excuse about it being normal!!!!! Do you own an Escape or a CRV??
p.s. Great looking kids you have there LOL!!!
varmint,
On other sites with just Escape owners the "coasting downhill" situation is the one reported 95+% of the time. It seems that way here too. I've done a lot of research on this problem (mostly because it happened to us) and can honestly tell you that any other situation, i.e. stalling at a stop light, is not related. Things like that can happen to any vehicle out there. I even remember a CR-V owner on the CR-V board stating that his 2002 kept stalling when he came to a stop. Post 7854 if you are interested.
There were others (situations) too.
"So, 95% of Escape owners may be satisfied on the internet but I can't help but notice... that there are 1600+ Posts in the Escape problems. That is just as many as the Ford Escape discussion and nearly as much as this very popular CRV vs. Escape discussion board!
We're not really going to go over this again are we?
davegh, go count how many CR-V problems were posted in the CR-V board. I bet the ratio is pretty comparable to the sum of actual problems from actual owners in the Escape problems board (which is probably only about half of the posts in there) and the number of posts in the Escape board.
This is no way to measure a vehicle's stability, quality, or reliability.
August 24th sounds inticing, but this is a busy time of the year for me, maybe I can get something to work out so I can head that way, I love that area!
varmint & muckyduck,
I know my post #1626, would be rebutted as such, that is why I threw in the smiley face, but I didn't know this was already discussed b4. I agree with you, I thought is was interesting and "may" merely suggest something.
Hondaman,
I prev. owned a 98 CRV, now I own the 2002 CRV.
Everyone: regarding Motor Trend,
I missed a lot of that discussion regarding the CRV, Escape comparison in the magazine, so let me know if somebody already brought this up. I finally got to see "that" article and typically, one would average the grades out to determine the higher score. They both average out to a B+, with the escape 1% higher then the CRV if you convert it to numbers. That is the difference between an 80 and 81. Personally I don't care to much but I just wanted to point that out.
I agree that I am not one to believe too much in the number of posts BUT I do look at the type of problem!
Sorry about the confusion but I have been getting 22 to 27 mpg with my 2002 CRV and I love this vehicle! I mostly have been getting 23 to 24 mpg. My lady had the V6, and she was getting 16 to 18 mpg and she didn't want to keep it while she moved to NYC for a little while because when she returns she wants something that gets better mileage and still has space and is higher off the ground. She is really hoping for the XTrail.
The PCM fix suggests that the idle setting is a problem. This seems to concur with what owners that have the fix are reporting. If that's true, then driving down hill and at certain speeds are factors only because those are conditions where the idle may drop. That does not mean those are the only conditions when it may occur.
Sorry about the confusion but I have been getting 22 to 27 mpg with my 2002 CRV and I love this vehicle! I mostly have been getting 23 to 24 mpg. My lady had the V6, and she was getting 16 to 18 mpg and she didn't want to keep it while she moved to NYC for a little while because when she returns she wants something that gets better mileage and still has space and is higher off the ground. She is really hoping for the XTrail.
AND you will save money on insurance on the Escape over the CRV.
So you get more warranty, more power, more towing, and lower insurance.
AND the CRV has NEVER won a head to head comparison against the Escape.
I'm not quite sure how to react. Why are you telling me all of that?
varmint,
"The PCM fix suggests that the idle setting is a problem. "
When you come to a stop, the rpms do not drop and stall the vehicle. The stalls occur when you let off the gas after having accelerated to about 30-40 mph. At this time, as in any vehicle, the rpms begin to drop rapidly as you coast with your foot off of the gas. For some strange reason, whether you are going down hill or not (if you were going up hill you wouldn't be coasting would you?), the PCM is not stopping the "deceleration" of the engine in time. It is not all that common of an occurance for most people (ours stalled once in seven months) and seems to happen in the same exact spot every time. Only the engine shuts down and you do lose the power assist on the steering and brakes. You do not lose control in any way shape or form. Even my wife was able to pull over and stop when we stalled on a steep winding hill.
The new TSB (02-11-06), which the tech used to fix ours last month, adjusts the PCM's reactions to engine deceleration events. I and many others' who have had the TSB performed have definitely noticed a big difference in the performance of the vehicle, and the rpms have not dipped below about 550 ever since. Not even at the spot we originally had stalled. None of the previous "fixes" made any difference in the tach's movements which is probably why they didn't work and is also why I waited for a fix that did make a noticeable difference. I myself do believe that they have finally found the solution to the problem.
Getting a service dept. to listen to you is another problem.
That's kind of the short of it. Let me know if you want to hear more.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Baggs - No, that actually proves my point.
"For some strange reason, whether you are going down hill or not, the PCM is not stopping the "deceleration" of the engine in time."
This is pretty much how I interpreted the information as you posted it in another forum. The hill and speed have nothing to do with it. It's a problem with controlling the engine speed. I used the term "idle" earlier, and perhaps that is a misnomer, but it's basically the same idea. Instead of returning to idle, the engine goes past the mark and heads for stall.
Whether or not this is a recall issue is up in the air. The NHTSA recalled Hondas for stalling. They claim that it creates a dangerous situation. Why a stalling Ford is not also considered dangerous is not clear to me.
Personally, I'm not sure I agree with the NHTSA as it is only a problem if someone drives into you. That's their fault. It doesn't matter why you stopped or slowed. But I'm not the guy who makes the rules.
Baggs....what did you do to whotheman to make him disagree with you???? Who is that guy? By the way whotheman, didn't the CRV beat the Escape from 0-60? Would that not count as a direct comparison? Even Motor Trend tested the CRV a while back (automatic) and it said that it beat it then too!! 8.9 to 9.0 seconds!!! Don't want to bring that up again but I had to say something to this guy!
"The hill and speed have nothing to do with it. It's a problem with controlling the engine speed."
But it only happens when the engine is decelerating after having accelerated the vehicle to 35-40 mph.. It doesn't happen at higher or lower speeds. It seems that the PCM is/was having a hard time controlling the engine speed while the transmission is in whatever gear it is in at that speed. I have not counted, but I think it is third or fourth. Likewise, I don't think the size of the hill, or any hill for that matter, has anything to do with it. You just have to be coasting while the engine decelerates.
I thought you were implying that it just stalled randomly. It seems that a very unique set of events has to happen while you are coasting in order to make the engine stall. That's why it has been nearly impossible for everyone to reproduce it.
"Baggs....what did you do to whotheman to make him disagree with you????"
That's what I don't know. I'm not sure that he was completely in disagreement with me because I did say some of those things (in other words) in the past. However, the C&D 5 Best award was awarded based on a comparison of five or six small SUV's and the Escape was one of them.
Just like I didn't see the new Range Rover beat the Lexus LX470 (the reigning luxury SUV champ in their last comparo).
OR the Silverado beat the Dodge Ram in any comparison (The Ram won their last comparison only six months ago!)
So some real verifiable testing on this matter would be appreciated.
On level ground, go 40mph, let off the gas.. What are your results: rpm, gear selection, speed.
Do the same thing going up hill: the resulting rpm drop, gear changes, speed changes are much different. Speed drops faster, causing shifts to occur at different times, etc.
Do the same thing going down hill: the result is different yet again. speed drops slower, tranny holds the gear longer etc..
Now throw into the mix the throttle position, which is also an input to the PCM which controls fuel flow, timing, tranny shift points among other things. How a person backs off the throttle to decelerate is different depending on whether they are going uphill, level, downhill..
The point I'm trying to make is that your quote:
"In fact, I am not aware of any gyro-related equipment in the Escape that would even sense a grade. Speed is obviously covered. Resetting or replacing the PCM would not cover such an issue."
is not accurate.
The PCM setting can most definately be a factor.
Is that clear enough for you? The Escape was not discussed in the 5 best comparison test, because it did not win.
Bess - Okay. But my original point still stands. The hill is one possible location. It is not the only possible location. If a stall happens somewhere other than on a hill, that does not mean it isn't the same problem.
How exactly did the Escape win in the Motor Trend article? If you average out the grade the both get the same GRADE! DUH! There is a 1 % difference. Please do me a favor and site the article in which the Escape beats the CRV! I can surely mention articles in which the CRV beats the Escape!
-Consumer Reports, which actually uses data rather then subjectivity.
-And correct me if I am wrong, but Canadien Driver supports my claim that the CRV is better.
-Car and Driver: Don't know
-Motor Trend: Tie with the CRV beating the Escape from 0 to 60 when you average the grades! Who wouldn't take the average?
-According to Edmunds.com, the Consumers chose the CRV over the Escape! Contrary, the editor of Edmunds chose the Escape over the CRV.
Hondaman,
My lady had the V6 Escape and she hated the mileage and the door sounded very cheap when you shut it, compared to the CRV. It sure gives one, the impression that the Escape is cheaply made.
I don't think you should say that the Escape is "cheaply" made because of a door sound. My 1999 Civic Si did not sound very convincing when the door closed as well but still place quite high in impact tests. I agree that it is not made to the same standards as the CRV in fit and finish and overall panel alignment but cheap.......I am not convinced. I believe that Ford has never done so well before and that is the purpose of our arguments here. If it was a Kia Sportage.......it would be easy but the only comparison between those two is the results of the crash tests, however.....I won't go there again!