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#2 Forester
#3 Hyundai Santa Fe GLS (V6)
#4 CR-V
#5 Escape
#6 Tribute
#7 Saturn VUE (V6)
#8 Land Rover Freelander SE
#9 Suzuki XL-7 Touring
#10 Jeep Liberty Sport
#11 Suzuki Grand Vitara
#12 Nissan Xterra SE (V6)
The CR-V is the LEAST expensive (it also has the best re-sale numbers).
It is also ONLY available for 24 months.
X PLAN! S PLAN! EMPLOYEE AND SUPPLIER INCENTIVES!
I N C E N T I V E S!!!!!!!
Why don't you want to touch this subject? I bet it accounts for a L A R G E portion of Ford's sales.
Out of how many vehicles? And how many times did they visit "Your friendly neighborhood Ford dealer" to get there?
I have a friend who manages a Honda dealership. He said since the arrival of the new 2002 CRV prices for the pre 02 CRV's have tanken a nose dive...
There is very little difference in 1.9% and 0 percent over the period of a loan. 1.9% for Honda in my area is 3 years, 2.9 4 years, 3.9 5 years...
Thanks for the CR numbers. This quality/reliability garbage will be coming to a fast end.... The Escape does not rate at the bottom of the heap like so many Honda followers believe and hope for...
I just hit the 19,000 mile mark on my Escape. Still waiting for all these problems the Honda crowd speaks so highly of to appear.
Your theories about 1.9% are from the dealer and not the whole company. He probably raises the price to compensate Honda the difference!
By the way, it is not the Honda crowd that has made up the problems your vehicle has faced........ but from reality. We don't make up rediculous stories for the fun of it! I will repeat.......I have driven many more miles in a Ford than you and they are not what you think they are! Your one vehicle does not make for the whole!
My mother had a 99 Catera w/50,000 miles on it. Loaded, sticker was around 32,000 dealer offered 6,000. Yeah, re-sale doesn't mean a thing
http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0205/26/autos-498944.htm
Studies show that about 1 in 4 U.S. car-buyers won't consider General Motors products, citing quality and reliability, the automaker's report said.
If that's a fact, and GM ranks higher than Ford (according to this report) what are people thinking about Ford. And how are Ford or GM selling cars???
INCENTIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HYBRID ESCAPE MOVES TO MISSOURI
Ford says the long-planne hybrid version of its Escape SUV won’t be built in Ohio after all, the AP reports. Ford now plans to build the gas/electric hybrid at a plant in Missouri that now build the vehicle. With sales of the Escape slipping almost 15 percent in 2002, the company needed to boost the productivity of the Missouri plant. The Ohio plant — the Avon Lake facility formerly charged with building the Mercury Villager/Nissan Quest minivan — has been assigned future production of a Mercury-branded Escape derivative.
The CRV has three, 3-point safety belts in the rear seat. The CRV is the safest mini SUV and the Ford Escape is the least safe of the mini SUV's. These pictures say it all. Also the links provide the scores for each vehicle respectively.
FORD ESCAPE http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm#1
HONDA CRV http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0213.htm#1
I'm not sure about the 2003 model escape but my '01 only has 2 3point belts...middle seat is still a lap belt.
Odie
p.s.- My wife and I are both happy with my Escape, which has not had a single problem to date.
*This picture is NOT graphic, it is an aerial shot prior to landing.*
Http://www.hmc.psu.edu/lifelion/scene1.jpg
Odie
"In the Institute's 40 mph offset test, 40 percent of the total width of each vehicle strikes a barrier on the driver side. The barrier's deformable face is made of aluminum honeycomb, which makes the forces in the test similar to those involved in a frontal offset crash between two vehicles of the same weight, each going just less than 40 mph."
The NHTSA has a slower speed test (35 mph), but uses a full frontal barrier instead of an off-set. Both the CR-V and Escape score well in this test. The CR-V scores one star higher for better protection of the front passenger. Both also do well in the side impacts.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2003SUVs.html
I second what odie said about the Escape's rear seat belts. I don't know about the 2003's, but the 2001-2002's only have two three point belts. However, the Escape, 2003's included, does come standard with the LATCH system in the rear seats in addition to three tether hooks on the cargo area's roof. If you are still using car seats, these are supposedly really good things to have.
-Mike
OK, I've got too much time on my hands.
In reference to your post #2830, I am deeply concerned. In keeping with our company's mission statement, I have forthwith appointed a committee to study this matter, and will report the findings to you in a timely manner.
Look for me on your television.
Best regards,
Bill
Good grief! What has this board come to - born again horses?? Yes, you do have too much time on your hands! ;-)
tidester, host
Tugboat, don't get caught up in the, Honda can do no wrong syndrome. Go out and test drive and price them yourself.
Burnt valves at 65,000 miles?? I thought All Hondas went 100,000 with no problems. Talks of a class action lawsuit??!! LOL!!
Go to www.crvlub.com..
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/december/20021210_dai_ford.xml
What is your definition of handles better? Test drove both ourselves, and the reason we are driving a CR-V is we felt it handled better!!
4 feet difference when you are talking about a stopping distance around 130 feet is not considered statistically significant.
Around town the difference is not going to be significant. I doubt it would be something that anyone could detect during an ordinary test drive. What you are thinking of as "better handling" might actually be "better steering feel", or something along those lines.
Diploid - Yes, it is amusing how small differences get played back and forth as either huge or insignificant.
That depends on what you read (and what the conditions were like during their test). Some have listed an 8 - 10 foot difference in favor of the Escape. Some have listed less than 4 feet in favor of the Escape again.
varmint,
I think C&D misquoted a wire report. The real report, from what I understand, only tells us that the HEV production will be moved to the KC plant because demand for the Escape has dropped 14 or 15 percent in the last year. This means the KC plant is not running at full capacity and can accommodate the HEV's production. The Mercury version of the Escape/Tribute will still be built at the Avon Lake plant. I have not seen anything else to back up C&D's report. Ford's web site even says to still expect the HEV in 2003.
One other thing, these tests that you are saying based on handling and stopping, are they done with the same brand and model of tire. I dont know what the Escapes original tires are, Hondas CR-V have Bridgestone Duellar H/T( poorly rated tire), so unless they were both tested with the same tire, then some of us class this as a altered test, meaning results can vary.
It appears Ford got those good braking numbers by using overly-soft brake pads which will need frequent replacement. And if an Escapee goes to harder pads, will the braking distances increase?
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/5best/2002
Hint - Congrats Pilot, CR-V and Odyssey.
That is the case when a buyer simply takes the word of the reviewer. Someone who reads MotorTrend and buys the COTY (cuz MT said it was the best) may end up very unhappy. The buyer needs to dig deeper and look at why MT picked that car. MT's standards may be very different than those of the buyer.
This contrasts greatly with someone who reads both the information on the page and also between the lines.
As for tires, most owners do not change the tires on their vehicles. They live with the stock rubber for at least the first 40K miles. So tests conducted with stock treads are best for the majority of owners. BTW, Honda uses two different tires as stock equpment for the CR-V.
SUVshopper - Yep. I often see Escapes with brown rims up front. And many owners have complained about replacing pads early. Given the choice, I'm not sure which way I would go. Frequent brake maintenance is both costly and it represents a certain safety risk if not kept up. However, a shorter braking distance is never a bad thing.
The actual AP wire report (which I have not seen myself) is said to have made no mention of the HEV's cancellation. Just the production move. I think C&D actually recognizes AP as their source somewhere on that page, so I have my doubts about their story. You're right though, we'll just have to wait and see. Didn't they already sign the contract with Toyota for the hybrid systems though?
"And if an Escapee goes to harder pads, will the braking distances increase?"
Any vehicle will experience longer stopping distances with harder pads. A lot of people on another Escape forum have replaced their stock pads with Raybestos pads because of the brake dust. The Raybestos pads produce very little dust, and, from what everyone says, don't reduce stopping distance by much if at all.
"so unless they were both tested with the same tire, then some of us class this as a altered test, meaning results can vary."
Varmint hit this one right on the nose in his post above. I'll just add that the Escape's stock tires aren't exactly the greatest in the world either. Some 2001's came with Firestones, and most of the rest, including mine, came with Continental ContiTracs.
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/5best/2002
Hint - Congrats Pilot, CR-V and Odyssey.
A month ago, before my wife and I purchased our 02 CR-V, the Escape was the other vehicle we narrowed down our selection to. We had read many magazine/internet tests and reviews but never rely completely on those sources for our decisions. After a week and three back to back test drives in both, we decided the was the CR-V was the vehicle that met our needs best. We also felt that in our back to back test drives that the Honda's build quality was better (that's only comparing NEW to NEW.) We also quizzed many of our friends and family, many of which own Escapes and 01 or earlier CR-V's and overwhelmingly the Escape owners liked their vehicles but would definitely shop other makes next time while the V owners would definitely buy a V again, even without shopping other brands.
The Comments:
Everyone liked their Escapes overall but most mentioned that it don't feel like they did when they were new. They also describe the performance of the V6 as only good, not great. (This was my biggest surprize in back to back tests between the V and Escape....hardly any noticable benefit in performance with the V6)
The common complaint with the V owners (01 and earlier) was lack of low and mid-range power...which of course has been nicely addressed for 02 and beyond. Other than that no one reported any reliability issues and would'nt think again about buying another V.
No magazine reports here. Just word of mouth from owners I personally know
Reed
I wonder if those pad changers are doing 60-0 brake tests with accurate measuring devices. Maybe the 60-0 stopping distance difference with the aftermarket pads is, oh, say about 4 feet.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021211/dcw037_1.html
I seriously doubt that those people are using any equipment to test stopping distance with their new pads too. But if you go by one of the reviews that has the Escape stopping about 10 feet faster, it still stops 6 feet faster with the newer pads when using your logic.
Please don't try to make it sound like Honda uses superior brake pads too! Our Civic's pads lasted all of 12,000 miles before they needed changed. Not so good if you ask just about anyone. I've read, on Honda boards, of similar situations on other Honda models as well. The Accord being one of them.
I don't really know how well the CR-V's pads are wearing, but I'm sure all of you Honda folks will tell us some miraculous stories of how they last for like 85,000 miles.
Remember that song called "A**hole" by Dennis Leary? There's a verse where he says something about driving down the highway in a big old, gas-guzzling, 60 or 70 something Cadillac convertible (the one's with the big fins) while eating a Big Mac and tossing the styrofoam containers out the side. Remember that?
Those were the good old days.
Looks like Ford got wind of the C&D HEV article:
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?article_id=13941&id=&art_ids=0&bn=1
An actual assembly line worker at the KC plant (where they assemble the Escape and Tribute) confirmed it over at the "big" Escape forum too. He's pretty happy about it actually.
How about the special air that Honda puts in the tires? Do you ever have to add "regular" (God forbid!) air to them?
For what it's worth, my Dad's 96 Sable has 40,000+ miles on it's OEM brake pads (front and rear disc). It depends a lot on the model as to what kind of pads you get because my old ZX2's pads only went for about 15,000. Same company, different models, different pads.