Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Also, the engine will be offered in the Focus with ratings of 148 hp and 152 ft-lbs starting in January.( CA, NY, and MA).
Very smooth and well behaved with the auto tranny. HP 160 @ 6000 Torque 162 @ 3600
No me too, cookie cutter, styling either. No one will look at your vehicle from behind (or the side) at 50 yards and think it's a Cherokee. Style is subjective but I like a car that atleast trys to be different. (Unless it's the Asstek.)
You seem to be having a very hard time finding more info about this class action lawsuit against Honda for Burnt Valves:
"No comment on the burnt valve issue with the CRV's?? I gave you an internet site, along with a CRV owner posting right here at Edmunds thier problems with their CRV. Seems like this is not a single person either, class action lawsuit in the works against Honda...And once again a secret HOnda warranty coverage.."
First off, if you look at the posts on different sites, its the same person. Secondly, nobody is responding to this persons cry for class action, INCLUDING THE LAWYER THAT RUNS THE CRV SITE YOU KEEP TRYING TO REFERENCE! One person typing hardly represents a 'lawsuit in the works'. Third, Hondas warranty is so secret that only a crack sleuth like yourself was able to find out about it right?
Honda's not perfect, just better. Since we're not supposed to post links to competing forums, I'll help you out the best I can by telling you to add a 'go' in front of the crvclub address. You'll find the post you were talking about with its one reply stating no interest. You can find a post by the exact same person on a website dedicated to hondasuv(s), only that site has NO REPLIES.
Sigh....did you miss me? lol
I read it was spreading like wildfire across the internet.
No doubt, people are mad, and they should be. My point is simply that I wouldn't give too much creedence to a class action suit until the filing for class action status goes through.
Essentially, there could be a problem, but we don't know enough about it. Now that the initial panic seems to have died down, we're left with more questions than answers.
Have your dealers send their CR-V's to New England! I've been waiting 6 weeks for mine, since every dealer within 50 miles has a waiting list a month long.
I don't see anything about the CR-V's valves.
Steve, Host
Pros: love the functionality of interior (especially that folding tray that makes access to the rear easy) and exterior, great little engine, great back seats and cargo space, excellent safety ratings on frontal, offset, and side impacts, respectable gas mileage for it's class.
Cons: the plastic on the B pillar scratches easily from retracting seatbelts, rear vision feels limited (I've added a wide angle lens on the back and would love an audio back-up sensor), bumperless design and poor 5 mph bumper crash tests.
Conclusion: next vehicle will be a hybrid or hydogen fuel cell CR-V.
You don't think the back of the CR-V looks like the back of a Volvo wagon? I sure do.
I agree that the back of the Escape looks like the back of the Grand Cherokee. That's not necessarily a bad thing though. Neither is the back of a Volvo wagon.
"Honda uses big incentives to move stock at the end of the year. Ford uses big incentives to move cars all year."
Back in January our Escape had absolutely no incentives offered on it. Financing was even at the market rate. We had to go through my wife's Credit Union from work just to get it down to 6.2%.
"Someone keeps bringing up Ford's fantastic quality and supports that argument by sales figures. I am saying incentives bring in a lot of customers that buy a Ford strictly due to it's affordability."
Some shoppers do go to Ford because of affordability, that's true.
Several Honda owners have supported the reliability issue with sales figures in the past too by the way.
Ya see, sales figures sort of work for Honda though. They don't offer the major incentives the big 3 do, therefore there must be another reason people are buying their vehicles.
I'm not making this up. Please see the clip from the NY Times. Almost $2,000 more on average per vehicle. That is a major incentive.
BTW you may want to look in to a refi through an online source. You could probably lower it free of charge.
On the other hand when the CR-V just came out lots of people were mentioning its back end treatment similarities to the distinctive Volvo wagon backs.
And confusion will probably only grow when Volvo brings its XC90 to the market. I think it's almost as tall as the CR-V.
http://www.volvoxc90.com/details/gallery.shtml
I would also agree that the rear of the 2003 CRV does resemble a Volvo, and maybe even the old Chevy Lumina Minivans from years past... Since I like so many other things about the CRV, I am trying to look past that thou
I realize that, but Ford has been in a price war with GM for the past year or so and it would be a great disgrace to them if they lost the sales crown to them. Incentives have to be at or near an all time high due to that fact. Honda sells just about everything it builds which is a whole lot less than Ford or GM. If you ever see them offering the same incentives as those two giants, sell your stock immediately. My point really was that the incentives aren't always there. I apologize for not being more clear.
People buy Honda's based a lot on reputation (sometimes undeserved) if you ask me. None of their vehicles, save for the S2000, really stir the soul. All the rest are pretty basic transportation and a lot of people are looking for just that.
"I can't tell you how many times I've thought an Escape (at quick glance) was a Jeep."
I used to do the same thing. Still do to an extent.
Lumina mini van tail lights? Ummm, they were rounded and all except for some ugly black horizontal lines. The CR-V lights are squared off not round at all and the CRV lights contain an amber and white (clear)element. The only thing they really have in common with either vehicle is their length and placement. It's kinda like saying Catherin Zeta Jones looks like Rosie O'Donnel cause they're both brunettes. Besides the CRV's body shape and spare tire placement basically assure you're never going to ask if it's a Honda, Lumina or a Volvo.
I think I'd worry more about losing my shirt than the sales crown. That's just my opinion though.
I can understand comparisons of the 1st gen CR-V with the Lumina. The lights were basically the same shape. In the dark, I've had to give the Focus hatch a second glance. But the 2nd gen CR-V lights have a very different shape. They do look more like the Volvo lights, now.
People don't have much to compare with, so our visual vocabulary on D-pillar tail lights is rather limited. It looks like a Volvo because that is the only other design that is similar. In truth, they are almost as different as Katherine Zeta and Rosey. However, if those two ladies were the only brunnettes in the whole world, the resemblance would be more understandable.
What gets me are the people who claim that these high-mounted lights don't belong on an SUV or truck. Have they checked the back of a Discovery?
Ford has $25 billion in cash reserves, and who knows how much GM has. Either one of them could buy and/or sell Honda like it was a red-headed stepchild. (No offense to those of you who may fit that description, it's just a cliche'.) No shirts are going to be lost anytime soon. Besides, they're both still turning profits. Not as high as Honda's, but profits while offering heavy incentives nonetheless.
"I don't see how that lessens what Honda and Toyota are accomplishing."
It doesn't, they are still selling only what they are producing. If they were to produce more, they might not be able to sell all of them due to the incentive war on the other side of the pond. Both Ford and GM desperately need to revamp their current car lines to get back in line with Honda and Toyota's record profit margins. The foreign makes are way ahead of them in that category.
Ford and GM would still be outselling Honda and Toyota by a very large margin without the current round of incentives. They just produce that much more product.
Also, remember that quality and quantity tend to move in opposite directions. Look at Toyota. They are catching up to the Big Three in production and sales, but the problem is, their quality ratings are dropping too.
"IMO the new Accord with the 6 kicks butt too."
I have not driven one yet, but all the reviews I've read state that Honda forgot to give that sporty engine a sporty suspension. I believe that there is more to stirring the soul than straight line acceleration. We don't have too many straight, flat roads around here.
Cars only. That's why I stated above that GM and Ford really need to revamp their car lines in order to catch up.
"What gets me are the people who claim that these high-mounted lights don't belong on an SUV or truck."
I don't have a problem with them as long as they have the amber turn signal lamps. I always hated the all red Lumina van version. You're supposed to be looking through the glass to see what's going on up ahead anyway.
None of that matches my understanding. As I understand it, Ford lost about 20 billion under the Nassar regime.
http://biz.yahoo.com/fin/l/f/f.html
Also, recent articles show that Ford lost money (on average across the product range).
I do agree that the incentives war is only a temporary solution. Ford (and GM) need to up the ante in their line of cars. The incentives are there to prevent loyal buyers from trying (and possibly liking) other brands.
http://yahoo.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2002/nf20021217_9475.htm
I do believe they did, and most of that loss was due to the Firestone tire recall, but they also made a $20 something billion profit in one of his years so it wasn't all bad. They must have been saving their pennies because a pretty recent article speaks of the $25 billion reserve. Unfortunately I can't remember where it was right now. They were discussing the pension issue when it was mentioned.
"Also, recent articles show that Ford lost money (on average across the product range)."
Yes, but they did manage to turn a modest profit the past two quarters somehow. Probably with SUV's and trucks. The Explorer and Expedition used to be huge cash cows for them and I'm guessing that they are still pretty profitable despite increased production costs for both due to IRS and other new features.
They are in dire need of a good Taurus replacement/redesign. I read a rumor today that the NY Times is reporting word of a Mazda 6 based Taurus within the next year or so. That may not be soon enough to keep Toyota from grabbing the car sales crown.
Ford and GM would still be outselling Honda and Toyota by a very large margin without the current round of incentives. They just produce that much more product.
? What does how much you produce have to do with selling more? Supply is related to demand, demand isn't a product of supply (in this instance).
No shirts are going to be lost anytime soon.
I guess you don't work for either one of them or, were lucky enough to not be effected by their layoffs and plant closings. And I guess you don't have stock in either company. Maybe the big wigs won't lose their shirts but, the little guys are. Sure, it's the entire economy but, I wouldn't run around saying everything's great at the big 3 and they can throw money around like it's nothing at all.
They are catching up to the Big Three in production and sales, but the problem is, their quality ratings are dropping too.
According to who?
J.D. Power has Toyota dropping below Chevy in initial quality.
"What does how much you produce have to do with selling more?"
As said before, they have left-overs. The incentives help get those left-overs off of the lots. If all manufacturers produced only what they could sell, incentives wouldn't exist. We're talking a "perfect world" scenario now.
"Supply is related to demand, demand isn't a product of supply (in this instance)."
Sure it is. The supply was high so they lowered the prices. Therefore demand increased.
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—
...Toyota Motor Sales models virtually sweep the seven truck segments, with the exception of the full-size SUV category, which is led by the Ford Expedition.
"With truck sales now surpassing 50 percent of the light-vehicle market, truck quality is critical to automakers," said Walters. "Toyota Motor Sales’ consistency in building truck models with high initial quality certainly gives them an advantage."
Of the 16 segments included in the study, Toyota and Lexus models lead nine segments, the most earned by a corporation in 2002. General Motors Corporation is the best-performing domestic manufacturer in the study, with four models earning top rankings, including the competitive premium midsize car segment. Ford Motor Company, which includes Mazda, tops three segments.
In addition to having a number of models topping segments in initial quality, Toyota Motor Sales and General Motors Corporation have both demonstrated above-average increases in quality, improving by 31 and 30 percent over five years, respectively.
Where'd you get your information? I got mine from jdpower.com.
As said before, they have left-overs. The incentives help get those left-overs off of the lots. If all manufacturers produced only what they could sell, incentives wouldn't exist. We're talking a "perfect world" scenario now.
You are saying Honda only produces what it can sell yet, they are offering incentives for leftovers.
Sure it is. The supply was high so they lowered the prices. Therefore demand increased.
That's just it, demand DIDN'T increase, it fell and has continued to fall. They are trying to get it to increase but it's not working.
...sales fell 32 percent at G.M. and 34 percent at Ford despite incentive spending of $2,575 and $2,392 a vehicle, respectively.
I must have been thinking about one model. I thought for sure that someone published a brand comparison where Chevy pulled ahead of Toyota only in initial quality.
"You are saying Honda only produces what it can sell yet, they are offering incentives for leftovers."
Honda doesn't have left-overs (not many anyway). The domestics do.
"That's just it, demand DIDN'T increase, it fell and has continued to fall. They are trying to get it to increase but it's not working."
So instead of selling 3 million vehicles, they'll only sell 2.7 million. I don't know where you got that little clip from, but Ford was only off of last years sales pace by about 10% for the year to date as of November 30th.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=13847
The high demand for Honda automobiles is an illusion. If they produced three or four million vehicles as the Big Three each do, they would be offering the same incentives. There's just too much competition. As it stands today, enough demand exists for them to sell what they make and maybe a little more.
I don't understand what you are trying to get across. Do you think Honda or any other manufacturer would be able to sell 3 million vehicles at sticker price? Especially when each one has about 7 competing models up against it? Dream on.
Honda's system is efficient and profitable, I'll go as far as to say. On the other hand, dealers are harder to find and the vehicles tend to cost more. Now we're back to personal preference again.
Here's a question:
When we read about Honda's profits, do they include the lawn mowers, weed wackers, toasters, robotic butlers, nose tweezers, etc. that they produce/sell in those figures?
Research by Allison-Fisher International LLC, presented to reporters during a briefing at GM World Headquarters, showed actual and perceived quality were about even for cars built by Ford and DaimlerChrysler’s Chrysler Group, while perceived quality for Volkswagen cars was more than double the German automaker’s showing in the J.D. Power study.
For Toyota, perceived quality was marginally higher than actual quality, and actual quality for Honda was almost imperceptibly higher than its J.D. Power showing.
“GM has a gap that no other manufacturers face,” Ballew said.
I got this from cars.com and I like where they said "and actual quality for Honda was almost imperceptibly higher than its J.D. Power showing".
How far was that off the previous years pace? I'd say sales dropping 10% is fairly significant. You wouldn't? If we look at the drop, approximately 300,000 vehicles. And then figure how much they would have given away in incentives, an average of $2300(money they theoretically could have made) that's almost $70,000,000. Yeah, no big deal. Unless maybe you lost your job in there.
I got my figures from the NY Times.
2. According to the quarterly reports I posted a few messages ago (Here's a link), Ford has not increased its bottom line. They've had increases in sales, but operating costs and other factors still have them in the red.
3. Baggs is correct, we cannot separate lawn mowers and rental cars from the totals of either company. Also, none of these numbers can be realistically attributed to either the CR-V or the Escape.
All I can say is this..
I bought an Escape over a year ago. It now has about 19,000 trouble free miles on the vehicle. I have used it in the snow to get to skiing areas, to tow my watercraft, to get to my fishing spots and its performed perfectly. In fact, I'm thinking about dumping my wifes Honda Accord for a Tribute next year!
Some say 19,000 is nothing, fords don't last.. yada, yada.. yada.. I now have a Ford with over 85,000 miles and no sign of complete failure like Honda fans like to think.. I was told over and over again the Escape is not reliable and mine will breakdown, engine will blow-up, transmission will fail... At 19,000 it purrs like a kitten and performs like new...
Happy Holidays....
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4733&sid=192&n=156
"...CU and other East Coast elitists..." - LOL.
Honda Bible exposed!
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT
As for myself, and many of you, we tend to rely on experiences related to us from family friends and most importantly personal experiences. This is why we ended up with the CR-V. Every Honda owner we talked to raved about their vehicle and had many times bought many other Honda s. Likewise, this is the exact same reason many have stayed with Ford. No big deal. Just glad we all ended up with the vehicle that BEST MET OUR NEEDS.
Honda Bible exposed! ..............well...........
At least Honda and Bible can be used in the same sentence!!!!!!!hahahaha
I agree with reed.. It depends on what and who you know... I know many people with Ford products that have not had any problems and would buy another Ford product at the drop of a hat..
Get out out on the net, visit other chat rooms/review rooms. There are plenty of peeved off Honda/Toyota/Ford/GM/Dodge.. you name it.. owners out here...
As for his many opinions, I share some but not others. For example, I think he is correct about CR's preference for cars that handle like the Europeans, but his guess about the reason why is completely absurd. I also think he makes the common mistake of assuming that the reliability data is more than a general guideline.
When I read CR reliability data, I read the fine print, too. When I use it in discussions like this, I do with the understanding that the information is general-purposes stuff. If the difference between the CR-V and Escape was 10 percentage points, I wouldn't discount the possibility that the data is skewed by the types of anomalies described in that article. But the reported difference is more like 70%. And it's consistent with the reports we've read by "getting out on the net". It's also consistent with what we know about the companies from other statistical reports.
If you read right here at Edmunds some of your CRV fans are not getting the MPG Honda quotes.. Hmmmm...
70 percent? is a very extreme in my opinion. I have an 01 Escape that has none, no, nada problems or issues.. I can now name of 16 people I have approached and/or know who have modles of the Trib or Escape and all have not had these major problems/quality issues you speak so highly of..
"Honda just released a zero-emissions vehicle. GM's EV1 has been on the road for 5 years...and it outperforms the Honda."
Yes... but can you buy an EV1 anymore?? And it was only available in Ca and Az.
Toyota and Honda now have the Civic and Prius hybrids and RAV4 EV. The hybrids are available across the US.
The big 2 and one half have yet to offer the general public anything this technologically advanced. All they do is fight progress and drag their feet.
Oh and to get back to this discussion... As nice as the Escape is, my friend bought a 2002 and had the infamous dangerous stalling on a hill problem at 6K miles. It was in the shop with no loaner for 6 days with an explanation that the battery had leaked onto engine components. Really?
At 10K miles, so far so good, but no Fords again for him.
Is this propaganda spreading at its best?? In this weekends paper every Honda Dealership was advertising CRV's also..