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No. Actually, we were in construction traffic on Monarch Pass. Backed up for about 20 minutes. Stop and go. Once we got past the construction it went like this - straight-away to 60 mph then curve that slows you to 30 or 40 then back up to 60. It did take acceleration. The kind of acceleration that some Escape fans said it wouldn't have under a load. Sure was nice to have disc brakes that I knew were well ventilated.
Try starting from a stop light or stop sign in the middle of a hill that is steeper than those you travelled.
Why? There aren't any of those within 250 miles of my home. And I haven't ever been stuck in a situation like that even once in my 17 years of driving. (Or 33 as a passenger.) If I had, I still wouldn't buy a V6 because that wouldn't represent 99.99999999% of my everyday driving. (Or most peoples for that matter.) Anyway, I'm sure it'd do just fine.
Your Civic has what? 106HP? I drove my 86 CRX through the Smokey Mountains without problems and that only had 99HP. Of course I didn't try to locate the nearest one mile road with a 12% grade and a stop sign.
I wonder what HP numbers would look like if the Escape's added weight was taken into account? How much of that additional HP is used to pull that additional weight.
I test drove one on some hills and didn't like it. In fact the CR-V's lack of hill climbing power was the number one reason why we didn't buy one. I know what I prefer and it's not the CR-V.
"Another thing, other than the Acura, there is no other engine similar to the CR-V. Comparing it to a Mazda simply displays an ignorance of the CR-V."
The Mazda 6's 2.3L I4 is actually very similar to the CR-V's in output numbers. I don't really have time to look them up right now so you can go do it yourself.
icvci,
Our Civic has 127 HP (at about eight hundred million RPM that is).
"Why? There aren't any of those within 250 miles of my home. And I haven't ever been stuck in a situation like that even once in my 17 years of driving. (Or 33 as a passenger.) If I had, I still wouldn't buy a V6 because that wouldn't represent 99.99999999% of my everyday driving. (Or most peoples for that matter.) Anyway, I'm sure it'd do just fine."
Because most of my every day driving is like that. The CR-V will climb the hills around here. There's just more drama involved in doing so.
How can you say "most people"? The Northeast is one of, if not the most, heavily populated regions in the U.S.. A lot of people over here drive on roads just like the one's I described.
They spend the majority of their time driving on 12% grades with stop signs in the middle of them? I don't think so. I bought for the usual drive, not the rare occurance.
BTW, I didn't ask why you didn't buy a V. I stated I wouldn't buy based on your 12% grade scenario when it's doubtful I'll ever encounter it.
Mazda6 - 160HP @ 6000 155 @4000
CR-V - 160 @ 6000 162 @ 3600
Good grief.
I also know what I prefer, and it is not the Escape. I drove one for 3 days, including off road. To each his own...
Ah, with your clarification, I will accept that the OUTPUT of the Mazda and Honda 2.4 is similar, which is not what you said earlier. However, the transmission / engine combinations are completely different, so I doubt that the performance would be the same. Does the Mazda also have technology similar to I-VTEC?
If I have no interest in Escapes, they become invisible (I exaggerate again). But try to sneak a Ford GT40 past me... no way!!!
james
Icvi.. I guess you didn't try to pass going up hill with a full load in your CRV.. You keep forgetting I did this in the Cascade Mountains and there is no way the CRV does just as well as the Escape/Trib when loaded down. The numbers just don't add up my friend. The weights of these two vehicles is within 120lbs, yet the torque/hp is 40 apart.. Please quite trying to insult us!
The expression Can't see the forest for the trees. has a completely different meaning than what you're implying. Per bartleby.com - An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at the situation as a whole. Which, seems (oddly) to fit you to a tee. You're too wrapped up trying to tell me how fewer means easier to find to realize that statement makes no sense.
I'll see thousands of Civics before I see one Enzo.
If anyone is doing anything with magic dust (or brainwashing), it's Ford. Something must be in the HVAC vents that makes their owners ignore the quality, reliability and dependability studies by J.D. Power, CR, Autopacific, and MANY others. Not to mention the consumer rags that sing the praises of the V. PLUS countless testimonials of those who have been burned and continue to be burned by Ford products. Last time I checked we don't have anyone on the CR-V board posting horror stories about their vehicle and how they'll never buy another Honda.
is no way the CRV does just as well as the Escape/Trib when loaded down.
Show me where I said it did.
I guess you didn't try to pass going up hill with a full load in your CRV
Why do I have to re-post everything for you? I did and I did. Loaded. Passed. Next.
Almost everything you'll ever want to know about VVT is here:
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/engine/vvt_1.htm
Mazda's latest version of VVT is called SVT and is similar to the VANOS system from BMW (according to the "experts" on the 6 threads anyway). Honda's i-VTEC is more advanced, but seems to be a "band-aid" (because they sort of combined two systems to make one) until they can come up with something better which I'm sure they will.
"Ah, with your clarification, I will accept that the OUTPUT of the Mazda and Honda 2.4 is similar, which is not what you said earlier. However, the transmission / engine combinations are completely different, so I doubt that the performance would be the same."
Well, it might not be what I said according to you but it is what I meant. I apologize for the confusion. Now you can factor in the weight differences (CR-V is 245 lbs heavier) and you can see how they do offer similar performance. Different drivetrains or not.
"They spend the majority of their time driving on 12% grades with stop signs in the middle of them? I don't think so. I bought for the usual drive, not the rare occurance.
BTW, I didn't ask why you didn't buy a V. I stated I wouldn't buy based on your 12% grade scenario when it's doubtful I'll ever encounter it."
I should start off by taking back some of what I said before. The coast is more densely populated than the inland portions of the Northeast states and it actually is pretty flat over there. Like I said before if we lived in a flat area a CR-V might be in our garage right now. Unless I could talk my wife into letting me buy a boat that is.
But stop signs in the middle of steep hills are a fact of life for the inland folks and the CR-V (RAV-4, Tracker, etc.) just does not do as well on those hills as the other SUV's with larger engines like the Escape. Sure it's (the CR-V) fine for a highway trip where you are just passing through, but having to live with the lack of oomph every single day isn't for everyone. Which brings us back to personal preference I guess.
Do people still buy CR-V's around here? Yes they do but they probably don't care about the difference in performance, don't use it for anything but commuting to daycare and work, or they subscribe to CR.
Every now and again you'll even see an Escape with the 4-banger driving around. Now those people are crazy!
Did you get a chance to read the article I posted on the Mazda3 board about it not sharing it's platform with any other Ford vehicles? Just an FYI before you look at the S40. Which I haven't heard very nice stuff about. Check out the carconnection.com article too. Lots of nice things to say about Mazda and the 3.
An Escape 4 banger? Why would anyone do that? I'm sure you remember the Automobile mag article that says just buy a Focus wagon and you'll be happier. I just can't imagine getting the 4.
I think calling it a "band aid" is like saying that peanut butter is just a condiment for the jelly sandwich.
For the techie types... Honda has not yet made use of the full potential for their particular brand of variable valve technology. They simply haven't needed it. However one of the great things about the cam design used by Honda is the fact that it can be added to without great expense and little risk to reliability. If needed, they could add variable timing, lift, and phase to the exhaust valves.
For comparison of the Honda 2.4 and the Mazda 2.3, you really need to see the torque curves. The Honda's long-stroke pistons in addition to the more flexible valve timing makes a difference. Combine that with the different gearing and tires and you've got a very different feel to the vehicle. (I'll refrain from making cracks about Mazda and hp ratings.) ;-)
You simply don't need that much power to climb a hill. And I'm not so lazy that I can't downshift or step harder on the pedal. In fact, I'm adding a hitch and basket on the end of my rig so I can haul more for a trip this weekend.
I would be willing to participate in an intervention about your Tornado gizmo though :-)
Steve, Host
I was thinking about doing that. Seems like a better option than the roof boxes. It wouldn't kill your aerodymanics or add to the tippiness inherent in SUVs. Can you direct me to aftermarket sites you may be looking at. And keep me updated in the mod./acc. thread. Thanks!
I did read that article but I recall it (and others) telling us that the 3, S40, and European Focus share the same platform. The U.S. Focus will not use the platform until somewhere around 2008 (it originally was scheduled to use it in 2005). Ford will just give the current Focus platform some spiffy new clothes and carry on meaning, once again, we're missing out on one of their better cars.
The S40 may end up costing too much anyway and it most likely won't drive nearly as well as the 3.
"I'm sure you remember the Automobile mag article that says just buy a Focus wagon and you'll be happier."
Ain't that the truth! I don't recall that line in the article but it does make a lot of sense. Especially now that the Focus can be had with the new 2.3L PZEV engine.
The four-cylinder Escape makes one wonder why on earth anyone would pay $4000 more for this than for Ford's own Focus wagon.
We know people buy SUVs for their high seating position, their image, and their go-anywhere ability, and because they can haul stuff. But while the Focus wagon can't provide the image or the lofty perch, it has better traction,more rear-seat legroom, and, with the rear seats up, more cargo volume (rear seats folded, the Escape wins by nine cubic feet). And when equipped with the 130-horsepower Zetec engine, the Focus is lively, with superb ride and handling.
From here:
http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,112022,00.asp
Steve and Tidester,
Whatever they're paying you it's not enough!!!!
tidester, host
Steve, Host
http://home.comcast.net/~tbragg702/vtec.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-06-car-loan_x.htm
If the big 2.5 ever get back on the ball and produce decent cars they will (i.e. your Malibu post from the 3 thread).
Probably not anytime within the next 2-5 years though.
I saw a Navigator ad this morning and they're giving $6000 cash back on it. SIX GRAND!!!!! Plus there was more on top of that. Why not price it to sell in the first place?
I agree but people think they're getting a better deal when they see rebates.
I remember reading (a long time ago) that for each Explorer sold Ford makes somewhere around $15,000 in profits. Imagine what their profit is on a Navigator! $6000 is probably nothing compared to what they are still pocketing from each sale.
I was toying with the idea of trading the Escape in (again) for an '03 Explorer or Escape Limited because of all the rebates available. I'm as guilty as anyone else when it comes to falling for these incentives I guess.
If you search around the news sites you'll find articles explaining how this practice is very common with the big 2.5 in these days of big incentives. Because people are so zeroed in on those big rebates they aren't even noticing the price increases.
Go to RESEARCH then AUTOMOTIVE then TOTAL VALUE then TVI RELEASE
Enjoy.
Odie
Odie - Belated congrats on the your baby girl.
Ivcvi - If you click on the small SUV link (segment won by the Element), you'll see the segment average, scores for all above average vehicles (CR-V, Santa Fe, and RAV4), and the Escape along with all the other below average contenders (there's quite a few).
Ford delays hybrid Escape, again.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030922/autos_ford_hybrid_1.html
Odie
p.s. - I have also upgraded the speaker system and added a rear seat dvd system into the escape.
I second that! My father-in-law had one a couple of years ago and the oil pump went bad. Long story short, the engine seized and he lost a ton of cash on it because they wouldn't fix it for some reason or another.
He is now happily driving an '03 Explorer Eddie Bauer V6. He absolutely loves it.
"Even with $15,000 profit per Explorer, Ford's average profit per vehicle is lower than any major manufacturer other than DCX. That should tell you something about the profits they fail to make on other designs."
This is true. I'm pretty sure they lose money on each Focus, Taurus, and ZX2 they sell right now. That's a lot of dough. They really need to get their act together with the cars.
For example, I was told that my '99 CR-V EX with 75K miles (at the time) was worth the same as a '00 CR-V SE model with 57K miles. Why? Because mine had new-looking tires, aftermarket heated leather seats, and it's silver. The SE model had un-heated OEM leather and a host of other upgrades over mine (tinted windows, auto transmission, painted bumpers, etc.). But it was white, and certain items are worth more to the dealers.
A Mazda salesman asked us several questions about appearance when we were talking to him about our Civic. He basically wanted to know about the "extras" like the moonroof, CD player, size and type of wheels, etc.. I guess it's easier to sell when they have some extra goodies to pitch too.
So far on the Escape I've added;
1. JBL Dual Titanium 6x8's (integrated 2way tweeter) - upgraded from the factory 5x7's in both front/rear doors
2. Kenwood 1200 watt amp (mounted under driver seat)- runs all speakers for the stereo and dvd system
3.(had to fight with wife to get this one because of price including install) Rear Dvd ent. system with 9" flip down screen. Player is mounted under pass. seat.
4. JBL Titanium Power series 12" sub - upgraded from the 10" in the rear.
5. Tornado for the engine (yes it does work) Had the Ford dealer I bought escape at install and they placed on dyno to see if there was a difference - pushing 215HP
6. Upgraded headlights / Foglights to Xenon bulbs.
all I need to say is WOW.
7. Replaced side mirror's with Turn Signal Mirror's ( Http://www.muthco.com )
I've put about $5500 extra's in my escape, so you can see why I DON'T want to get rid of it. It's the Wife that wants me to go Bigger.
Odie
http://home.comcast.net/~tbragg702/vtec.htm
It should still work because I haven't taken it down yet. If it doesn't just do a search for the words 'honda', 'hamster', and 'vtec'. You're bound to find it then.
Wouldn't a hamster be considered vermin though? Man, you Honda fans can't get anything right!
Who can't get what right? :O)
james (a Forester fan)
Right. That's exactly what I said.
Now pay attention as this is very important!
I think vermin would be something like a rat, or a hamster for this matter, while a varmint (not the Edmunds user) is something like a rabbit or or a beaver. Didn't you ever watch bugs bunny (Yosemite Sam used to call Bugs "varmint" in case you didn't)?
I also didn't say varmint (the edmunds user) was vermin, but I did say hamsters may be vermin. He was saying hamsters are varmints, while referring to his user name, but I don't think they are. I believe they are vermin.
Clear?
If you are the type to trust the American Heritage Dictionary, fourth edition, then the word "varmint" is actually a variant of "vermin".
Princeton's Wordnet lists vermin as a synonym for varmint.
If you look at as many entries as I have, you'll find a dozen variations on what the word "varmint" really means. The most common is an obnoxious person, while the term "varment" refers to an animal. Once again, they are most often listed as synonyms of one another.
Where did you find the time to look all that up? Maybe between hamster feedings at the engine lab?