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Just kidding, but it is an interesting coincidence.
Steve, Host
I'm glad you bring that up because I thought the same thing. Over on the "big" Escape board there are actually a few threads devoted to the binding issue. Most, if not all, of the problems people are having can be equated to the fact that they did not take the time to read their manual and find out how to operate the system. I remember some folks saying that they drove with it on ALL THE TIME and couldn't figure out why they needed a new transmission!
Ford went to great lengths to show owners how to work it by devoting a couple of pages to it in the manual as well as printing a big yellow label on the driver's visor with some instructions. Both clearly state that you should not "lock" the system on dry or wet surfaces. It's really not that hard to understand is it?
So yes, I guess Ford got sick of the complaints and decided to make the vehicle think for the driver instead of the other way around.
That's exactly the kind of problem I meant. This new design reduces the chance of binding by sensing sharp, low speed turns and routing the power to the front wheels only. Thus, it decreases the potential for problems.
FWIW, Consumer Reports data shows a relatively good score for the Escape's transmission. It earned an "above average" rating, which translates to between 2-5% of the surveyed population reporting issues.
The CR-V's RT4WD system has a built in allowance that enables it to turn without binding. In fact, the turning radius is quite small. That's how many owners find out it's time to change the differential fluid. If the fluid wears out, the system will begin to make a noise during tight turns as the RT4WD reaches the point when it starts to engage.
Odie
Http://www.geocities.com/odie442/albert_family.html
Over the lifetime of my Escape I have noticed one thing. I have the Continental tires and in my lifetime of owning vehicles I have never had a vehicle that has had so many objects puncture my tires. I have had 3 nails and 2 pieces of metal puncture my tires over the years. Does anyone else with these Continentals notice the same pattern?
I swear I must have had a sign on the front of my escape saying;
"GO AHEAD, JUST PULL OUT IN FRONT OF ME!"
LOL
Hope everybody else had a good thanksgiving.
Odie
My Homepage
After about 2.5 years of ownership this vehicle has performed flawlessly....
This room has sure died off..
Not much more to say really.
Thank God they didn't aim for the RAV-4!
Very few would argue that the Escape and CR-V haven't surpassed the RAV4. Even Toyota themselves would most likely laugh at your post. That's why they're playing catch-up for 2004 after being behind since (at least) 2002.
And "very few would argue" your rebuttal statements are laughable, thanks.
"Heck, if you're gonna own a vehicle that gets mileage in the 20-28 mpg range, why not get one with room you can use?"
-Because some people don't need the extra room, and don't like the family-wagon look.
"I'd take a Matrix/Vibe over the RAV4 in it's current form."
-Even with the low ground clearance?
Baggs: Yes, 3 years and counting. Be sure to tip your waitress well.
Because some people don't need the extra room, and don't like the family-wagon look.
Yes, the rolling ball of silly putty is a much better look. LOL
Even with the low ground clearance?
Matrix GC - 5.9 RAV4 GC - 6.7 That's less than an inch.
You've gotta bring more than that to hang out on this thread.
"Dearborn, MI. Ford will recall all 2001 Escape models assembled at the Kansas City Assembly plant that were built from 10-22-99 through 5-31-2001 and Escape models built at the Hofu plant from 10-22-99 through 7-31-2001 for seat belt safety concerns.
Ford is concerned that a part inside the seatbelt may break causing a no-latch, partial latch or a latch failure to occur. In some cases, the seatbelt may appear to be latched; however, may disengage in an accident.
The recall is 03S10."
I have not seen this on the NHTSA's site so it might be that Ford found it and acted quickly on their own. We all know how long it can take the NHTSA to investigate these things.
My wife, who is at home with the newborn, saw it on CNN about an hour ago too and called me right away. I reminded her that we own a 2002 copy and are in the clear.
Amazing how those little humans can make you worry about the smallest things! She wouldn't have thought twice about seeing that news two weeks ago.
Boy named Ryan, 11/28 8:47PM, 7 lbs 15 oz. (Although he mysteriously weighed 8 lbs. 2 oz. in the nursery a few hours later), 19 1/2 inches in length, ten fingers, ten toes, and all is very well!
I am definitely ready for that new Mazda! Most likely in March. I finally saw a Mazda3 live and in person the other day. I'm going to wait for the snow to melt to take a test drive though.
It's killing me to be this close to a new car, but yet so far away.
All this baby stuff we have to lug around is making me wonder if we need an Expedition!
"Rolling ball of silly putty?" Name calling?
I'll refrain from making derogatory comments about the CR-V styling.
We have very different senses of style, my good fellow.
"What part of my rebuttal is laughable? Toyota is picking up the pieces [This part.] trying to produce a compact SUV that can compete in the segment [This part.]. Nothing funny there. [Again, our tastes are different.]"
"You've gotta bring more than that to hang out on this thread." Tough guy, eh?
Reminds me of the movie line, "This is Ames, mister."
We got our Mazda3 brochures about three weeks ago. Pretty neat stuff.
On another note, too bad Mazda/Ford didn't have the 4cyl in the Tribute/Escape when I bought. I would have bought one.
[This part.] trying to produce a compact SUV that can compete in the segment [This part.]. Nothing funny there. [Again, our tastes are different.]"
I'm sorry, opinions don't factor into whether a vehicle is competing within its class. The RAV4 is getting killed by the competition. (On the road, off the road and in the showroom) Nothing funny or difficult to figure out there. If you believe differently please support your view with actual facts, figures and data.
Silly Putty, family wagon, tah-may-toe, tah-mah-to. Dish it out and take it.
angles of approach and departure You brought up ground clearance. I simply pointed out that it is minimal (almost nil). What's it matter? The Vibtrix can do most anything the RAV4 can in AWD form.
Not a tough guy, just asking you to bring more than opinion and loose statements to the "table".
Yes it is! I feel part of some elite club now after having gone through all of that. Your life really does change (for the better of course) and you gain a whole new perspective.
"On another note, too bad Mazda/Ford didn't have the 4cyl in the Tribute/Escape when I bought. I would have bought one."
I doubt you're the only one! Might be too little too late for them.
Your styling comment was an opinion.
"Silly Putty, family wagon, tah-may-toe, tah-mah-to. Dish it out and take it."
You mean it's not a family wagon?
"I'm sorry, opinions don't factor into whether a vehicle is competing within its class."
I'm sorry, too. You may put it into a certain class, but that doesn't mean its owners or manufacturer see it that way. It's a little different, which is a strong point to some of us.
"'angles of approach and departure' You brought up ground clearance. I simply pointed out that it is minimal (almost nil). What's it matter? The Vibtrix can do most anything the RAV4 can in AWD form."
You're right - I should have originally said "angles of approach and departure". In my case, with my driveway, they matter very much. And a higher seating position is, to me, a plus over the Vibtrix.
You may put it into a certain class, but that doesn't mean its owners or manufacturer see it that way. It's a little different, which is a strong point to some of us.
I'm not putting it in any class. It is already in a class with other vehicles, like it or not. And, it doesn't lead that class as far as performance, safety, offroad abilities, on road abilities or sales go.
I can see you don't care to discuss anything with any actual facts. And I don't care to ramble on about opinions. So, good day.
When we hit the 75k mark on the escape we will probally go bigger (Pilot, Exploder, Durango) I refuse to buy any MINIvan unless it's that Viper powered V-10 prototype Caravan from a few years back.
Odie
My Homepage
Kimmie rules (especially if you have a 4 and 6 year old)!
Seriously, I went from a Minivan to my CR-V because I no longer needed the extra space (and didn't want to drive a tank anymore). When I had two strollers, I wanted the size; as the kids got older, I wanted a SMALLER car.
Course, we haven't driven it to Yosemite yet; I may regret the loss of some of that cargo room when we pack. But that's only once a year.
Man he's awesome so far. I never thought it would be so cool to have that little person around! It's going to be really cool watching him grow over the next few months. I'll hold off on commenting on the teenage years.
The Escape has proven to be a great vehicle when you have kids. We've already been to SAM's Club, with stroller in tow, to pick up all the necessities. Everything fit just fine. We'll definitely step up to something bigger if another one comes along though. I like minivans, specifically the Mazda MPV, but I like 4WD no too. Hopefully someone other than DC and Toyota will offer it when we're ready.
On the other hand, my wife's sister and her husband have three girls ranging in age from 5 down to seven months. They own an early nineties Saturn (I forget the model name) sedan and a 2001 CR-V SE. They somehow get by, but let's just say they don't go to SAM's Club too often.
On that one trip I saw the Colorado Natl. Monument, Pikes Peak, Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Rushmoore, Hoover Dam, Grand Canyon, Vegas, Yellow Stone, Four Corners, Red Wood Forest, watched a taping of CHiPs which, in 1980 was a pretty big deal, Bryce Canyon and a ton more that I'm sure I've temporarily forgotten.
To this day my grandmother still refers to that as her favorite trip, and she has been just about everywhere a person can go in the world.
Yeah, that's the thing. We like to go to the Outer Banks in NC and you can drive on the beach in several places to get to a less crowded corner of the world. 4WD/AWD vehicles only on the beach. A FWD minivan won't do it. Not to mention getting through the snow and ice covered hills here at home. The latter isn't quite as bad as most of us have done it in a RWD vehcle at one time or another. It's kind of a right of passage around here.
It's all depends on your lifestyle, aesthetic taste, gender, age, climate, etc.
I got CR-V, but I believe both CR-V and RAVA are great cars. For me RAVA has more 'girly' attractive look - and CR-V is more 'macho'. Yes, RAVA is smaller, but there are plenty of people who do not need to haul stuff around - and the 'look' of their car is far more important for them than any specs or utility. Reliability of both cars is about the same. Both are 'toys'
anyway - I would not take them to safari or to Iraq. But for U.S consumers - both are just fine.
MY main point was that if you don't want any of the strengths of the Escape or CR-V in an SUV, then you don't need an SUV. If you don't need the utility and room that they offer, why not save money and get a Matrix or a Vibe? Why not save fuel? I never said it wasn't good, it just hasn't been competitive in the class. With the 2004 update it will be.
SUV'ish looking car. There still will be lots of RAV4 lovers regardless of the size of the engine.
And of course Toyota wants more of them ... .
In my office women like RAV4 better than CR-V. They do not care about specs - they like
how RAV4 looks... .
Odie
My Homepage
P.S. - My wife thinks I'm nuts because I have all the kid shows songs, character's and sure burned into memory already...lol (I hate having a photographic memory) But as I tell her, "Everyone in the world has a photographic memory, Just not everyone has film for their camera."
ICVI, I was saddened to see the Escape/Trib/Mariner going away from a manual 4x4 switch. This was one of the pluses and an edge given to the Escape over the CRV for 4x4 ability in this class. The new 4cyl is a 2.3 coming from Mazda. HP is yet to be determined. I have read as high as 155 to as low as 145 for HP. However the Torque is supposed to equal HP. Along with it being ULEV and giving much better MPG. To say "Ford has seen the light"? Honda presently holds 8 percent of the U.S. market.. Ford 24 percent... Light anyone?? If anything Honda needs to offer a V6 in the CRV and then Honda will see the light....The introduction of a 4cyl engine that will pretty much match any 4cyl in its class will give the Escape/Trib just one more advantage.
What's more telling is that Ford is expected to finish the year with 17.2%, making it the 8th year in a row for declining market share. Back in 1995, Ford had a 21.8% share. On the other hand, Honda's share has been climbing steadily over the same period.
Another reason why they have to put more efforts into their car line. The Taurus was still popular back then. And not just for fleets.
Scape - 0.1% of market share is worth about one billion dollars. Back in 2001, Honda/Acura had about 6.9% of US market share. Now they have about 8.2% despite facing the huge incentives used by the domestics in the post 9/11 economy.
It's amazing what the big2.5 have conditioned much of the population to accept.
Scape can we agree that gaining market share (at no matter how small an increment) is better than losing marketshare?
What may be more telling is the difference between Honda and Ford when you drop the markets where Honda does not compete. Remove sales of the Ranger, F-150, and E-Series vans and Ford's market share is about 10%. Even without those vehicles, Ford has a larger product line than Honda.
"Even without those vehicles, Ford has a larger product line than Honda."
When you strip away each of the big three's other brands and leave just one they are going to be more comparable to Honda or Toyota when it comes to market share. Parity rules in today's market. Just look at the NFL!
Ford's product line IS larger than Honda's after removing those models but not by much.
Accord=Taurus
Civic=Focus
S2000=Mustang
Pilot=Explorer
CR-V=Escape
Odyssey=Freestar
N/A=Expedition
N/A=Crown Vic
N/A=Excursion
Insight=N/A
N/A=SportTrac (Don't know how much longer this one will be around though)
You might as well remove the Expedition and Excursion too. Both are based on models previously removed. I don't think the market share will drop by too much without them.
"Remove sales of the Ranger, F-150, and E-Series vans and Ford's market share is about 10%."
When Honda finally introduces it's new pickup "truck" you can add the F-150 back in the number comparison will just look silly again.
Hard to believe they let that happen.
I think Honda's "Truck" will be built to compete more with the Explorer Sport Trac than the F-150.
Sorry, that distinction got lost in between posts. Based on the last numbers I read:
Honda alone = 7.2%
Honda w/Acura = 8.2%
As for product line comparisons, it can get pretty sticky when you get into details. For example, there is an Accord coupe, but no Taurus coupe. The Mustang is both a coupe and a convertible, but the S2000 is a dedicated roadster and competes in a different class of cars. Then there's the T-Bird and Element. So, there are some cars that just don't match up.
The only one I would consider quibbling over would be the upcoming Honda SUT. That's not competition for the F-150. It's an SUV-based trucklet like the SportTrac.
Anyway... point is, the market share isn't as uneven as one would think when you consider how the two companies compete. And the gap keeps getting smaller, not bigger.
That didn't even occur to me. I doubt they would add much to the final number anyway. Just like Acura to Honda.
I forgot about the T-Bird and Element. I know how I could forget about the latter, but forgetting the former is unforgiveable!
We'll leave the GT out of this one too. That's a whole 'nother subject.
"The only one I would consider quibbling over would be the upcoming Honda SUT."
That's exactly what the articles I've read stated too. Only they all continue to call it a "pickup" so I grouped it with the F-150 just in case.
Here's one of those articles:
http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0312/12/d01-6025.htm
"Hard to believe they let that happen."
They were too busy trying to beat the competition across the street instead of across the ocean.
I think they're starting to see the light as shown by their sudden work with Mazda.
On another note, I've called off the car hunt. I keep going back and forth on what I want and I've finally decided that all three of my choices right now (Mazda6i, Mazda3s, Focus SVT)are not going to hold me over for more than two years. So I'm going to dump some money into the Civic and wait for the '05 or '06 Mustang. I'll probably buy one (or maybe something else) next December or January though.