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CR-V vs Escape

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  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    This room has died. Guess we hashed it all out huh?
    Escape sales continue to climb. Soon there will be a Mercury version in the bunch too!..
    anyhoo.. After 2 years my Escape XLT V6 4x4 is running great and has served me well. Snow is starting to fall in the Cascades and skii season is just around the corner. The trusty Escape will get me to the mountains for some new powder!
    Cheers.....
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    hey send some of that snow ober thisa way. I want a White Halloween...lol

    Odie
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    You may get your wish next week odie! Highs in the 40's over on this side of PA next week. I'm guessing you'll see the same a day later.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-03-honda-recall_x.htm

    My parent's 91 Escort had a similar problem but since we always use the e-brake it never really bothered us at all. I think theirs was caused by the crappy job the key cutter did when making us some new keys. Those never did fit right and the originals began to pull out not long after we started using the copies.

    We had a problem locking the ignition too. The stupid beeping thing would go off evertime you opened the door to get out (when the engine was off).
  • carguydccarguydc Member Posts: 46
    I remember some discussion on this forum about how the CRV was a consumer reports recommended pick and the Escape was not. The CRV folks were quick to point that out.

    Today the Consumer Reports New Car Buying Guide came out and BOTH Escape and CRV were CR recommended picks!

    Still loving my 2004 Escape Limited! The heated leather seats are great in the winter and the tunes from the Mach audio system sound great. Every time I floor that V6 it puts a grin on my face! Can't enjoy any of those simple pleasures in a CRV, can you???!!
  • kentkmokkentkmok Member Posts: 27
    Let's hope that your "powerful" Ford engine won't start leaking oil at 30k miles and need a major overhaul at 50k...
  • carguydccarguydc Member Posts: 46
    Actually, this is the sixth Ford SUV that I've owned. Between my wife and I we've had 4 Explorers and 1 Escape before this new Escape. Out of those 5 vehicles, the only problem I ever had was one of the Explorers needed a new transmission at 5,000 miles. The vehicle never left me stranded - check engine light simply came on and it was fixed by the dealer under warranty. No problems after that. So, six vehicles and only one problem, fixed under warranty. Beside's it's CRV that's had two recalls in the last year. Escape has not had any since it's launch year (2000).
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    30K on my 3.0 V6 in my trusty Escape and it runs great! No leaks, no problems, just power and reliability... thanks kentmok...
    Its obvious the news is spreading about how reliable the Escape/Trib have become. Sales are still strong. I would think if these vehicles were so problem prone after 3 years sales would plummet. Just the opposite has happened. While at a soccer game I ran into a Ford sales manager. He told me that the Escapes sell fairly quickly and they have no problem moving inventory.
    I too have owned several Fords over my lifetime and NONE have given me any reason to switch.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "Today the Consumer Reports New Car Buying Guide came out and BOTH Escape and CRV were CR recommended picks!"

    Most of us knew that all along. I guess it really does take a magazine article to get some people to notice! ;)

    (Not you carguydc. I'm referring to others.)
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Was that comment (#4424) really necessary? Too much bashing on this forum. I'm a CRV owner myself and a die-hard Honda man (also own a 2001 Accord and 2003 Honda motorcycle). But Ford still does make some fine products and personally I like the styling of the Escape/Tribute better than the new CRV. A co-worker just bought a new CRV and my first impressions when sitting in it was CHEAP.....Just my .02.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "Let's hope that your "powerful" Ford engine won't start leaking oil at 30k miles and need a major overhaul at 50k... "

    Oh yeah? Well let's hope your Honda transmission doesn't seize at highway speeds no matter what your mileage. ;)
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Just a couple of comments here:

    Congrats to Ford for finally making the "recommended" list here at edmunds ... however if you are referring to any of my posts, I am using Consumer Reports, which does not recommend the vehicle. Still, I think quality has been increasing, especially with the 2003.

    The Escape has had several recalls as well, in it's first couple of years, just as the CR-V is having some in it's first couple of years. They are posted on the NHTSB website. These are typical of a new generation, and the CR-V is a new 2nd gen, while the Escape is still first gen.

    Really, these are two different vehicles. I do wish people would respect others and refrain from inflammatory comments, on either side of the issues.

    In my opinion, people who prefer the engineering of a CR-V wouldn't appreciate the engineering of an Escape, and vice versa, anyway.
  • jrc346jrc346 Member Posts: 337
    I am not a CRV or Escape owner, however it did catch my eye that the Escape is now on Consumer Reports Recommended list. This list being found in the Fall of 2003 Auto issue that was just released (yesturday?).

    Here is the article that I read (mentioning the news about the Escape) at the Detroit News website which headlines that the Focus is now recommended and tops in two categories.

    http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0311/05/c01-315932.htm
  • carguydccarguydc Member Posts: 46
    Just to clarify, I absolutely was referring to Consumer Reports. I have the issue in my hands now - it is in the "New Car Preview 2004" - page 59.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Sorry my mistake. Congrats to Ford!
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "The Escape has had several recalls as well, in it's first couple of years, just as the CR-V is having some in it's first couple of years."

    It was actually the first couple of months for the Escape. In fact, I think all of the Escape's recalls were issued and over with before the year 2001 rolled around. 2001 was the first MY of the Escape.

    Recalls are not a very good way to judge quality (neither is CR if you ask me) anyway. They can inconvenience the owner, but it's better to have those problems fixed for free than to learn about them the hard way. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The Escape has not had a recall since its 01 introduction, lets make that clear. In fact if anyone would dig deeper they would also see the recalls were also for certain build lots and dates. So, not ALL 01 Escapes/Tribs were even affected by the doggone recall issue that just won't die or people are uneducated about!
    My whole hang-up is the outragous premium price Honda demands for the CRV in my region. This is going to get Honda into trouble in the future. All car brands have made leaps and bounds in the "reliability" category. Honda/Toyota are loosing this sales aspect. What then??
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    Actually, ALL recalls affect only certain VINs.

    Re:Price. Honda has this policy of offering very few factory options. Therefore it isn't possible to get a "stripped down" base model, like you can with most other auto makers. The question is how the models compare with similar equipment.

    Anyway, here in SoCal, the CR-V is priced competetively when the options are considered.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I have an on-line subscription to CR, so I'll post the Small SUV rankings for those who don't have a copy. The rankings are posted as a graph, so these numbers may be off by a point or two. A score of zero is considered average for the industry.

    Make of this what you will.

    CR-V +60%
    RAV4 +53%
    *Element +50%
    *Forester +30%
    Liberty +20%
    Xterra +19%
    Santa Fe +17%
    Rodeo +14%
    *Sorento +12%
    Wrangler 0%
    Escape -6%
    Tribute -6%
    Tracker -8%
    Vitara -8%
    Aztek -32%
    VUE -60% (this is a rather huge drop)
    *Freelander -148%

    Vehicles with an "*" are ones with only a single year's worth of data (too new to be fully rated).

    Although the Escape technically falls 6% below the industry average, this falls within the parameters of an average score. That is why it CR gives it "recommended" status this year.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    If local Honda dealers price their vehicles high like you've stated, then they won't drop until enough buyers won't pay the price. There's a local Dodge dealer close to me like that. Basic supply/demand applies.

    I agree with you in that the "reliability gap" is getting less than what it was. But wouldn't you expect that to happen?
  • desertmandesertman Member Posts: 30
    What do those rankings refer too?
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    It's the Consumer Reports reliability data. Vehicles at the top of the list have had few problems than those at the bottom of the list (according to their surveys).

    That data is part of the magazine's overall ratings, but they also use peformance evaluations, utility evaluations, safety data, and pricing considerations to make their final recommendations.

    One of the requirements for their "recommended list" is that the vehicle score in the average range for reliability. This is the first year that the Escape has done so.
  • vonhefvonhef Member Posts: 6
    Safety...a picture is worth a thousand words:

    Ford Escape
    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/0105_1_11.jpg
    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/0105_2_25.jpg

    Honda CRV
    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/0213_1_3.jpg
    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/0213_2_13.jpg

    And here is a reliabilty report from Consumor Reports:
    http://www.hondasuv.com/forum_crv/files/92_1068429624.jpg
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    This is old data and old news. Its obvious you have not seen nor will post how well the Escape does with side airbags... Hint, does just as well as the CRV.. Also, How about we post how terrible the CRV does in rearend collisions and how much money it will cost you?? And how The Escape bests the CRV in stopping distance by up to 13ft!...
  • vonhefvonhef Member Posts: 6
    "This is old data and old news."

    Since it is valid & current...it's not old to me :)

    "How about we post how terrible the CRV does in rearend collisions and how much money it will cost you??"

    It is true that a rear-end collision with the spare mounted on the rear door will cost more to repair....but I am talking about vehicle safety...not cost.

    "And how The Escape bests the CRV in stopping distance by up to 13ft!..."

    I will ask you a question in regards to this test...what tire was used on each vehicle?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I see we have another Honda worshiper in our midst, and he's been reading his "Honda Bibles". ;)

    "I will ask you a question in regards to this test...what tire was used on each vehicle?"

    Most of the tests were done on early production models meaning Firestone's were most likely used. The Continentals are actually better than the Firestones according to people who have tried them both. I've never seen any test evidence of that though.

    However I do know that the Escape stops hard and stops fast with little to no fade. The tradeoff? Lots and lots of brake dust.

    I think scape was eluding to the fact that the Escape is better at avoiding an accident. Since you seem to adhere to test results so much you will notice that the Escape bests the CR-V in braking, slalom time, lateral g's and pretty much every other handling test they throw out there. Better to not be in the accident at all don't you think?

    Seriously though, I hope all of your accidents are just like the one in the IIHS test (Really I hope you are never involved in an accident). Not 6 inches to the left or right because we don't know if the CR-V is as safe in those areas. ;)

    Don't fool yourselves people. No two accidents are alike and you're no safer in one of these vehicles than in the other. They're too similar. I've been in two accidents (both single vehicle unfortunately) and neither one came close to being like the IIHS' "most common" crash. If you really want to be safe buy an Excursion or something else along that line.
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    I'd sure appreciate some input on MPG expectancies..... for the Escape and CR-V

    I am leaning toward the manual shift CRV, but am leaving options open......thanks, ez
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    As requested, my CR-V miles. CR-V EX Auto, RT4WD.

    NOTE: My CR-V didn't reach full MPG until about 1500 miles.

    City: 21-22 MPG
    Highway: 26-27 MPG

    If you are interested in MPG, don't get the manual transmission; it has worse MPG due to the higher gearing.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The Escape's MPG seems to depend a lot on the driver. Some people on other Escape boards report high teens on average and others, including myself, report low 20's. If you mash the gas pedal at every stop sign/light then expect high teens in the Escape.

    I personally averaged about 24-25 MPG on the highway during a trip from PA to NC last year. Mostly because I added a few extra PSI's to the tires before we left.

    So there are ways to improve it if you need to but no matter how you slice it the CR-V will get better mileage than the Escape 99% of the time.
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Member Posts: 1,110
    "However I do know that the Escape stops hard and stops fast with little to no fade. The tradeoff? Lots and lots of brake dust."

    According to what I read here on Edmunds, it seems part of the trade-off is also the $400-600 brake job - and that's front brakes only.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "According to what I read here on Edmunds, it seems part of the trade-off is also the $400-600 brake job - and that's front brakes only."

    Only if you have the job done by the dealer. It's much cheaper to either DIY or take it somewhere else.

    Our Honda dealer charged us $220 to change the front brake pads on our Civic about 5 years ago. They had all of 13,000 miles on them at the time. Oh, and we're now on our fourth set of front pads (second set of rotors) at just under 56,000 miles. That was the last time I ever had a dealer perform a brake job. The pads we got from Pep Boys and our mechanic neighbor lasted longer and cost less than half as much.

    Take a look around. Many new vehicles exhibit the same soft pad/rotor brake dust covered wheels as the Escape. BMW's, MB's, Jeep's, and dare I say the new Accord!
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    I love the sound of that. I read about it prophesied in my Honda Bible somewhere... Now I read about it in my Detroit Free Press.

    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/truck10_20031110.htm

    Congrats Toyota!
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That was for the last quarter only. The year isn't over yet. Ford is still ahead for the year. Not by much though.

    Once Ford puts some decent cars on the road again that'll all change. Next year is supposed to be the year. ;)

    I think you also predicted that the Escape would not outsell the CR-V in the future too. I've seen the specs on the 2005 Escape from the Miami auto show and it's pretty impressive. New interior with floor shifter, updated exterior, new 4WD system, 2.3L I4 replaces the 2.0, improved offset crash results (for all you number crunchers out there), better fuel mileage, full-size spare (although it's mounted under the rear floor), safety canopy system (SAB/SAC, seat sensors for occupant weight detection, etc), new ABS system with four wheel disc brakes, and the list goes on.

    The news was posted on another Escape forum that I can't link you to but it did say that 2005 Escape production is supposed to begin in December 2003 with the vehicles actually arriving in early 2004. I'd think spring. Then the hybrid will be released. Sounds kind of early to me but it does make sense since they will be producing four versions instead of two for 2005 (Escape, Tribute, Mariner, HEV).

    If they can keep prices in check the CR-V doesn't stand a chance.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    me to see how short sighted we Americans can be sometimes. To praise the fall of an American industrial icon to a foreign one... We buy all these foreign goods and services for an initial less cost, short term, individual benefit. Without thinking longterm on what it is going to mean for future generations of Americans. Lower paying jobs with no benefits, working at Walmart or Target...Think about it, we are all economically connected.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Brake dust on the Escape is a bummer I have to admit. I try to wash my Escape at least once a week, give a good waxing 3x a year.. In between washings I use a terry cloth to wipe off my aluminum wheels. I have about 34K on my Escape and am sure I am getting close to a brake job. I am going to have some aftermarket brakes/rotors installed.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Dude, (there's that word again) get a grip. Without increased competition we'd all be driving crap. The addition of great vehicles from Asia has only meant the Big2.5 have to work harder.

    Competition drives a free market economy. If you can't compete, you die. Long live those that build the better product.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Well now, Ford has to do something, the Liberty kicked their butts last year and was in the drivers seat for much of this year. So, it appears, Ford's main competition on their take of the compact ute comes from Jeep.

    Then again, GM has the Equinox on the horizon and we shall see where that leaves both the Liberty and the Escape. If any of my babble has had a shred of truth in it,(and I believe it has) GM will out-sell both the Lib and Triape with employee and supplier sales leading the way. (They are a much bigger company with a much bigger network.)

    We shall see.

    BTW, 2005 is still quite a ways away. DCX will introduce the diesel Lib in there and I'm quite sure it'll sell very well. Toyota has a RAV4 overhaul in the works. KIA is turning heads with their compact ute. And Hyundai is still at the top of CR's list.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031111-1.htm
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    just turned 38k today and still pushing 25-28mpg's mixed driving. I haven't done the PA-TN trip in a while so I can't add TRUE Highway MPG's in there. All in all I'm still having fun, just can't wait for the Snow, even though some of your guys (gals) probally already have it. Send it thisa way.

    Odie
    Http://www.geocities.com/odie442/albert_family.html
  • vonhefvonhef Member Posts: 6
    "I see we have another Honda worshiper in our midst, and he's been reading his "Honda Bibles". ;)"

     Not really a worshiper... just a pleasantly surprised 1st time Honda owner :^) I have always owned American, and have many years of automotive repair experience (including working at a Ford dealership).
    Like many, I researched all the vehicles and had it narrowed down to the Liberty & Escape. After test driving my two choices, I found that I didn't like the road thump that came through the rear struts on the Escape. Driving the Liberty was a better experience (did have some wind noise)but was concerned about feeding fuel to the beast.

    On the same trip to my second Liberty test drive, I passed a Honda dealership and decided to give the CRV a closer look. At first glance some things seemed odd to me (shifter & parking brake on dash), but thought I would keep an open mind about it. Getting behind the wheel was a complete surprise! I never expected this 4 cyl engine to perform as well as it did.... It seemed every bit as good as the Liberty I had driven the same night. Later that week I researched insurance cost
    (CRV was less expensive) fuel economy, resale, engine torque curves, and reliability/safety raitings...and decided that the CRV made the most sense for our family.

    I almost didn't look at the CRV because it was a Japanese car with a 4 cyl engine... but the data and a test drive changed my mind.
  • kizhekizhe Member Posts: 242
    From your post I got lots of info except... . what kind of car your are talking about.
    Was it Escape or CR-V ?
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I got a 2001 Ford Escape XLT 4x4 V6 in Med. Wedgewood Blue color and it's name is "The Blue Hornet" (neice named it for me)

    Odie
    Http://www.geocities.com/odie442/albert_family.html
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I had a long post with comments from previous posts all typed out and ready to go yesterday but Edmunds' Town Hall server crapped out on me. This link sums up most of what I had to say:

    http://media.ford.com/products/press_article_display.cfm?article_- id=16802&vehicle_id=1004&make_id=92

    odie,
    It's a shame about the Nittany Lions football team this year. NOT!!!!!!

    At least one Div I PA team is giving us something to cheer for. ;)
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    A competitive 4cyl. engine in the Escape? But, what about towing? What about the advantage? What about 0-60 times?

    Wonder which will sell more?

    And look at that, it still has fewer ponies than my hamster powered Honda!
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    I read the Ford Promo, and from the description of the new "intelligent" 4WD system, it does not have a locking low range; the 4WD automatically engages when needed.

    "New Intelligent 4WD System

    Four-wheel-drive Ford Escapes have an all-new, fully automatic four-wheel-drive system for 2005. The new Intelligent 4WD System replaces the current Control Trac II System for more positive traction and vehicle stability, improved fuel economy and smoother operation.

    The automatic system requires no driver interaction and is so seamless in operation that most drivers will never notice that it has engaged - except by being impressed by Escape's capability in slippery conditions. Whereas current Escape models have two four-wheel-drive settings - either "AUTO" or "ON" to lock the center coupling - the 2005 models do not need the switch. The fully automatic system provides the maximum traction as driving conditions vary.

    The Intelligent 4WD System is a fully computer-controlled clutch that engages the rear wheels as needed; in normal conditions Escape is driven by its front wheels. Using sensors at each wheel, at the accelerator, the system's computer is able to calculate dozens of times per second exactly how much torque to send to the rear wheels to minimize slip - and can even predict slip and preclude it from happening at all.

    The Intelligent 4WD System eliminates one of the drawbacks of other four-wheel-drive systems tuned aggressively for maximum traction, which is a binding effect during tight turns and driveline harshness when the system engages. The Intelligent 4WD System can sense tight turns and continuously varies the torque to the rear wheels at all speeds, offering the benefits of a "locked" four-wheel-drive system without any of the drawbacks. "

    Sounds a bit like RT4WD on the CR-V....
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Yes they seem to have eliminated the "locking" feature and switched to a computer controlled system as found in the CR-V. The old ControlTrac II used a fluid based system which supposedly wasn't quite as "smart" as the electronic version.

    I for one thought the old system worked just fine but I'm sure Ford found out that the new one is cheaper while offering similar, if not better, performance. The "locking" feature is really nice for snow, sand, and mud (I've tried it in all of them) but I guess it wasn't really needed. Just nice to have.

    Someone mentioned that they remember seeing a 4X4 button on the Mariner's center console back when it was first shown. Maybe there's still hope!
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I noticed that they are addressing the Escape brake wear issue. That has been a major issue for Escape owners and should be good news for future Escape buyers.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Actually, the CR-V's RT4WD is not commuter controlled. It's purely mechanical. Hydraulic pressure controls the pressure between the plates of a wet clutch pack.

    The system in the upcoming Escape appears to be similar in concept to the VMT4 system used in the Pilot and MDX. Though VTM4 does have a low-speed locking feature and also the ability to lock the rear half-shafts for side to side power distribution.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Just had a thought.

    I wonder if Ford was having trouble with the RBC in the orginal design either getting bound up during tight turns, or being locked on dry pavement (when it shouldn't be)? The press release spends quite a bit of time trying to explain that point when it isn't something that would fall under the category of common knowledge.

    As I understand them, a rotary blade coupling (RBC) isn't going to be all that forgiving in a binding situation. Ford might simply be taking proactive action against the potential for trouble.

    Oregonboy - I noticed the brake upgrade, as well. But what gave me a giggle is the way they promoted IRC suspension like it's fancy stuff. Gotta love those marketing boys. =)
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    I can't stand Penn State Football. Just because I work for Penn State doesn't mean I have to be a Fan. I'm a Tennessee Volunteer Fan for College, But when it comes Pro, I'm a DETROIT LIONS fan (yes I'm proud to admit it too)

    On the Escape vs. CR-V note, I'm not sure where I read it. Probally in the Freestyle board. But the 3.0ltr duratec will be replaced in 2005 with a 3.5ltr that will push out 245hp - 260hp.

    Odie
    Http://www.geocities.com/odie442/albert_family.html
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