I am looking at purchasing an 81 300sd turbo diesel and was looking for some feedback. It has 170k miles on it. It has a perfect body ( came out of the US south 3 yrs ago). I have sen a number of comments previosly +/- on these cars. Can I expect to get another 100 - 150k out of this diesel like the dealers say??? is it reasonable to assume a 100.00 month upkeep? It is a private sale and they are asking 5000 CAD for it supposedly they have a reasonably complete service history with a gap in the middle few years.
Well, I have a 300D with 213,000 on it and it runs and looks great....however, to presume that you're going to get 300K on any car without major overhaul is reckless sales talk IMO. At 170K, ANYTHING can happen to ANY car at ANY time....KABOOM...really, at 170K the car has already done everything Mercedes intended it to.
That being said, if the car is well serviced and checks out thoroughly, you might get another 75K out of it before a major overhaul of some sort. Biggest issues are the climate control systems and a/c, which aren't very good and may fail periodically. Also the automatic door locks seem to go on the blink a lot....be careful also to note if there's a whine in the differential as you accelerate. Other than that, I can't think of any endemic problem....of course, with any diesel you have to watch for fuel contamination (algae and water in the fuel tank), so if you buy the car be sure to treat the fuel every tankful with a conditioner and cetane enhancer and every once in a while with a bio-cide for algae.
AS for the turbo, it should be quiet...if the car smokes excessively when started cold, this could indicate a worn turbo. A bad a/c system may be the climate control valve or the a/c compressor, both of which cost hundreds of dollars. So play with every knob and switch and make sure everything works!
While considering the 81300D I have found an 86 190D (non turbo)with 140K miles. What is the general opinion on this model. I am looking for a reliable comfortable vehicle to last me 3-5 years of commuting. I am not interesed in speed or performance. I have been told by a non involved mechanic that the 86 190D is a good car, reliable engine, solid body no major electrical problems and easy parts avaialbility. Does anyone have experience with this model?? thanks for all the info so far this is very helpfull.
I personally think the 190D is a slow, rattly slug of a car, and I sure wouldn't commute in it. They may be reliable, but I wouldn't pay anything for one (nor would anyone else, apparently...the value is quite low)
The 300 series is a big 5-cylinder car that is smoother and quieter by a long shot, and for that reason is a popular used car. I think I could sell mine in a red hot minute for $4,000 (but I won't).
I have a gorgeous '66 250SE with an annoying automatic transmission problem. I can't maintain a steady 35 mph or so without having the thing rev to about 3000rpm. At 37/38 it finally shifts into high, but by then I'm over the speed limit in an ever-watchful town. So the result is a beautiful classic gliding around town making much more noise under the hood than is necessary. Does anyone know how difficult it would be to replace this automatic with a floor-mounted stick shift? And where would I find everything I need to perform the swap?
I think that trans shift pattern is adjustable. A conversion would cost you more than the car is worth I think if it's a 4-door, and if it's a coupe you really wouldn't want to mess it up by cutting holes in the floor, or having to weld this and that, etc. I think you could get this car to shift sooner. Conversions of this sort are a big job, especially with the pedal assemblies, driveshafts, etc. Even on an easy car, such as my Saab, the conversion cost me over $3,000, and that is a "bolt-in" affair. And besides, I've driven stickshift models of this car and they aren't very nice to drive...the shifter is not very positive, and it's a big car to be shifting all day I think.
If this were a 280SL, I'd consider it, since the car warrants a stickshift and the value is upwards of $30K....but on your car I just don't see either the economics or the conversion itself being very satisfying.
I need some advice. My wife is considering buying a 1980 450SLC. It has been very well maintained by someone she knows personally. It has 74,000 miles and appears to be in very nice shape. The asking price is $8,600, which is somewhat negotiable. I know very little about these cars. Is this a good price? Also, how expensive is it to maintain? Tune ups, etc... Is this a reliable car. Are there any problems specific to this model I need to know about? My wife really likes the car. But I don't want (and can't afford) a lot of expense trying to maintain it. Any help would be much appreciated.
Hi All, I am trying to calculate a fair price for a 1991 190e 2.6 with 110,000 miles. I tried to trade it in (which I realize is a losing proposition) but was stunned to be offered only $3500 for the car. I have the full service record including the original window sticker and have added keyless entry and a cd player. The only repair I know of that is currently required are new control arm bushings. Is $6000 a fair price to ask? (edmunds says its worth more and KBB says less, so I am splitting the difference at $6000.)
mdames---the 450SLC is a pretty good car overall, and if it's been cared for will run many miles. The only disadvantages I can think of are a)it's a big heavy clumsy kind of car b)it's a gas hog, and c) if any major repairs are necessary, it will be expensive. Also, don't expect the car to appreciate in value...there are a lot of them, and the ragtop versions are somewhat more popular than your car. But it's a nice cruiser for the highway and a strong car, so it has some appeal if that's what you want. If you're looking for a sportscar, though, this isn't it.
gixwomack--the used car guides are pretty accurate....go to www.traderonline.com and see what the reasonable (middle range) asking prices are and go by that.
Selling it yourself, $6K sounds like a good to slightly low asking price based on what I see in the San Diego papers. (Real selling prices may vary!) In addition to the site Mr_Shiftright gave you, there is Edmunds.com (of course), Carprices.com, carprice.com, NADA.com, http://infoseek.go.com/Automotive/Buy_a_car/Used_cars/and kbb.com PS: The dealer was just going to wholesale the car and was not interested in it, so the price was low.
The $8,000 price should be for a very very very nice car needing nothing.
Routine maintenance is average for a luxury car--figure $300-400 for a routine maintenance check twice a year, plus whatever expendable parts might come up, like tires, brakes, mufflers, etc.
67-71 Mercedes 300SEL 6.3 is what i'm interested in. Does anyone have any advice on such cars. I know that i should find a low mileage car and check the a/c, suspension, and especially the engine, but i was hoping that someone would have some reliability ratings for me. hopefully someone owns one of these fine autos. M-B sure knew how to build cars! This car has exceptional speed, luxurious appointments for 4-5 passengers and can easily carry their luggage in utter comfort. sounds like the same recipe for 2001 BMW M5. so, if someone owns one, or has some knowledge about these cars, please respond. oh, about how much are they worth?
The 6.3 is an awesome car...I used to drive one as a company car when I worked for MB, but I would not rate it highly for reliability nor collectibility. Also, engine repairs could be enormously expensive, as this is the same engine as the Mercedes 600 limos....you could have to cough up over $1,000 for a water pump, for instance.
I would not recommend getting involved with this car, as I see it as nothing but a huge money pit with no rewards at the end of a long, hard road. If I were you, I'd rather look for a nice 6.9 sedan....it's cheaper to buy, almost as fast, and easier to deal with. Around $12,000 should be enough to buy any nice 6.3, and around $9,000 should get you a lovely 450SEL 6.9. If you really want a big Benz, consider the later 560SELs, also in this price range and a much better car than either of the earlier big V8s.
Sorry to dredge up an old topic and disagree with you Shiftright, but my family had a '67 200Diesel and a '72 220D and I think the earlier car was much better.I would explain further but a detailed comparison of two of the slowest cars on earth might terminally bore some readers...
My dad bought a 1988 BMW 735i in 1992 for a mere $17,900 CDN. The car had about 150,000 km on (don't know what that is in miles, maybe 105,000), so the price was severely chopped. The dealer must've been a little slow, because he should've known that BMW engines last forever and he could've got a higher price.
Anyway, my dad still has the car, runs like a dream, looks like it could be a 1994 because '88 was the first year of the new body style, and the bonus is it has a manual transmission. It is quite rare, there are only about 10 in Canada, probably 30 in all of N.A. 1988 was the last year 7's came with a standard, and he's a big guy so he needs the room, but loves a stick. The best deal he ever got!
Mr. Shiftright, how would you rate a 1986 Mercedes Benz 2.3, 16V with a 5-speed transmission? The car is available here in No. Calif for only $5000. What are the disadvantages, and what are the items I must look for when I go to test drive the car?
Mercedes 200D----my main objection to this car is that it is GUTLESS....at least my 300D can get outof it's own way....you couldn't spin the wheels on a 200D on a concrete garage floor that was wet!
Also, they are very noisy compared to the MB 5 and 6cylinder diesels.
I'm not a big fan of the 7-series BMWs, at least not an a used car. I think owning one from the beginning is great, but buying one as a high mileage used car from a stranger is rather scary. They are complex and major component repair is expensive. Also, in spite of your dad's preference, I think rowing around in a stickshift in a car of that size is a chore (to me). This is a big tourer and needs an automatic. The stickshifts are "rare" because nobody wanted them.
The MB 190 2.3-16 is an interesting car, possibly the only interesting 190 there is. Definitely worth a look, even though it is an "entry-level" Benz and pretty bare-bones in trim and materials. On the down side, I think (I THINK) a 1986 190 2.3-16 would be a gray market car, so you might want to investigate that further, and see if an MB shop will work on it and, if possible, have the shop assess the level of quality of the conversion work to US specs. Sort of a minor collectible.
I bet your 300D doesn't have a 4-speed.I bet your 300's trunk has never slept 2 people.I bet your 300 doesn't send you into a wild series of uncontrollable fishtails every 80,000 miles or so just to keep you wary, huh, huh ,huh?...I didn't think so... Actually, there's nothing that will teach you more about conserving momentum and using your brakes judiciously like driving a 190 or 200 diesel for a while.Unless you're like my idiot (ex) brother in law who got so frustrated by it he just ruined the engine.But I really did love that car.
Mr. Shiftright, do you think it is a GRAY market car even if it is listed in the Kelley's Blue Book? The car has done 120K miles, which is not a lot for a MB. My Q was is the 2.3L 16 valve engine as robust as a normal 2.3 or 2.6? The car is black in color. I saw on the internet that one owner of an identical car in every respect uses it for racing! It is a 5-speed which is what I want. My other two cars are a 991 Honda Prelude (181K) and a 1994 Miata (68K). I will probably sell the Honda if I get this Merc.
When you say bare-bones does it mean it willhave no air-conditioning, etc? The ad. says it is "loaded" and Kelley's blue book confims it comes with A/C and ABS as well. Any more info. you or any other TownHall correspondent can give me will be appreciated. I have never owned a Merc. and this will be my first.
I think I'd need to see the ID plate to know if the car was gray market...I know that the 16V did not come into the US immediately, and that some were imported as gray market, because enthusiasts wanted them (supply and demand don't you know).
Sorry, by "bare bones" I meant that the trim levels and quality of materials is not particularly lavish or extravagant...the interior and exterior of the 190 is pretty modest and austere...but it should have a/c, sure.
I think a stickshift 16V 190 would be fun, I'd certainly investigate it further....but remembrer, it's a used car and so you have to do your homework here. The car's ID plate would identify if it conforms to US specifications or not. But I wouldn't drag my feet...this car will be bought if the price is right.
Ah, grey market cars. My neighbor showed up with his "new" 1986 380 SEL that was his dad bought in Europe when it was new. It has been registered in Texas ever since he came back from Europe shortly after purchasing it. His dad passed away, so my neighbor picked up the car in Texas and drove it here to CA. He has been trying to get it registered. First, the local smog check guys say they can't pass it so he has to go to the referee station where he's told it will take around $5K to meet CA standards. Then the guy says he doesn't think it has been properly "federalized" either and that will cost about $15K. The neighbor is thinking of leaving it in a field somewhere.
DGraves and ShiftRight, thanks for your comments. This 190E 2.3 16V Merc. is already in California and has California registration plates. Also, it is at a reputable used car dealer who specializes in not easy to find European and Japanese sports cars. However, how do I know if it is a Gray car? From the VIN number? Or can I run the registration number past the DMV? I am well aware of problems that can arise by bringing an out of state car to California! But this Merc. is already in California. I am going to check it out this Saturday. But I am wondering why the price is as low as $4999!!??
Dgraves, your neighbor will have to leave the car in the field, or better still soup it up and use it as a autocross race car!
The ID plate will state very plainly if it is a US car or not....and yes, you can also ID it through any Mercedes dealer. The dealer doesn't have to disclose if it is a gray market car as far as I know. Just ask him why don't you?
Price isn't particularly low...these cars are not well-known nor are they particularly admired by collectors. By and large, the 190 didn't have a good reputation, and the 16V got caught up in the bad press.
I'm thinking of having a 1970 MB 280SE 3.5 changed from coupe to convertible. I love the car now, it's a 2 door coupe, great style, great condition, but really want a convertible. Has anyone done this? Does it work out OK? What problems were there? Am I crazy to think about cutting off the top of a coupe in great condition to make it into a convertible?
Oh, yeah, people chop cars all the time, and it is not uncommon for this to be done with many different types of cars.
The only "crazy" part is that your chopped coupe will not be worth any more than it is now (presuming in very nice shape, maybe in the low 20s)....while a "real" 3.5 cabriolet low grille is worth 3 or 4 times that.
So you will endure substantial expense for no financial benefits, but only the pleasure of a top down experience. Given that scenario, you may want to consider getting your top down jollies in a little Alfa Romeo or MGB for under $10K.
The MB coupes do not have the value of the convertibles, nor will they ever come even close to matching them--the only exception being the Gullwing, of course, which outpaces its convertible sibling the 300SL roadster.
Some people will tell you that you are ruining a "classic" but they are not really in touch with history or the market on that....true, I myself would be reluctant to chop a 3.5 especially, but really it's your baby and the car is not so rare or valuable that it's the Mona Lisa or a hand-built Ferrari...they made over 4,500 of your car, and maybe half of those are still around somewhere, so it's not a one of kind type of thing.
The 3.5 cabriolet is a great cruiser, and hard to beat even in a modern car if you want top down, 5-passenger luxury. It would be fun for tours and club events.
Thanks for the good advice on chopping the 1970 MB 3.5 coupe. I'm not looking for a place to waste money, but I guess I'd have to look at it as an expense and not as adding anything to the car's value. I knew it wouldn't bring it close to a real cab in value, but I was hoping for some boost to make up for the cost. Do you have any idea of what it would cost for a good conversion? Any tips on what to look out for, good or bad?
My problem with going to a 2-seat convertible is that I have an 11 year old daughter who loves to go to the ice cream stand and other great destinations in the summer with a friend in the back seat of a convertible. I had a Saab 900SE conv. (1997) but got out of it last year. It had a great back seat for kids. With only 2 seats, we'd eliminate the summer night rides with my wife, daughter and a friend, and my daughter won't be 11 forever. (I live in Michigan, where you have to appreciate each summer night.) I'd worry about buying an older Saab conv., plus I do love the unique style and feel of the 1970 3.5. Any other suggestions for good cruising convertibles with a good back seat? The 3.5 would be hard to beat, even if it is a fake cab.
I am going to look at this car today.I saw it locked up yesterday. Cosmetically,it's outstanding-no rust bubbles anywhere.It has 163,000 miles-asking $7200.Should I expect motor and/or transmission to have been rebuilt? If they haven't,shouldn't I expect to have to soon? What is a reasonable price to offer?
I'd offer below wholesale book or below trade-in...as this is just a normal "used car", you can find pricing info right here at Edmunds, on the home page.
That mileage is very high, and just about anything could go wrong at that high number...the car has essentially done all that Mercedes or any reasonable person might expect, so really you are in completely unknown territory. I would certainly expect some problems, yes, but perhaps the basic driveline could still be okay. I'd worry more about the history of the transmission than the engine.
Try to buy it cheap and keep your fingers crossed is all I can say. Personally, cars with this much mileage have to prove themselves to me through an examination and good service records; otherwise, if the car cannot sell itself, I'd consider it nearless worthless at such high mileage...perhaps a $3,500 car. I bought a very clean, spotless 1980 300D for $1,200 with 212K on it...and really, I wouldn't have paid much more.
Mr. Shiftright, My mechanic, who i've trusted for close to 20 years has a fellow customer (also a long time customer) selling a 1992 190E with 105K miles. with all the options Edmunds returns a private party sale price between 8400 and 9200 for average to good condition. The seller is asking 9000. Are there any things to be wary of in this model/year? Do I have a reasonable expectation of driving it to 200K miles if its properly maintained? Regards, Charlie
I'm not aware of any glaring problems, although I'm sure the car has its idiosyncracies, like all cars....certainly it is a LOT better than the original 2.3 four cylinder car, which in earlier forms could burn lots of oil.
If the original Becker radio is still in the car, you can throw that over a fence and get a decent unit. Also, as with all Benzes, please check out the climate control system thoroughly to make sure everything is working just right. Same with the power windows...if they struggle, you will have future problems I think. Climate control and power windows were not MBs forte back then.
The 2.6 is a sturdy little car and with good care should last 200K yes. Of course, some components will wear out before then, but the basic driveline should be fine and the build quality is good. Price seems okay, too.
My wife used to drive a 1991 190E 2.6. It was a very nice little MB. Even for their smaller size, they are heavy cars. Brake pads, discs, shocks and struts tend to wear out faster than you would see on non-MBs. The 2.6L engine is definately better than the 4-cyl, but it's no race car either, but very solid, nice ride, etc. The cost of mainanence in the last few years we owned it was about $1,000/year.
I test drove the car this morning (Tuesday). The owner was pretty fastidious regarding maintenance. It handled well and all was in order but for the radio. It got reset needing a code from the dealer(?)to be able to use it. The climate control seemed to be ok. I'm still on the fence but it sure looked good.
Okay...like I said, if it's a Becker radio it is useless, so plan on replacing it.
Have you worked all the dials and switches and windows and sunroof etc. Play with everything!\Also, if you can see the prior service/repair records, this will give you an excellent idea of what's ahead.
Be sure the code works. We had an episode just after buying our car where we ran the battery down. I failed to turn the radio off when we jumped the car and we fried the radio's little anti-theft chip. No more radio. Luckily for us, the dealer replaced it without blinking. It was valued at $2000!
Yes, you really need to read the owner's manuals these days before jump-starting any car. I think radios became sensitive to this around 1990 or so, but perhaps even before that. Some automakers recommend running a lot of accessories while jump starting, to sort of share the load of the possible voltage surge.
I know you've discussed this in a forum somewhere, but for the life of me I cannot remeber where. So, if you don't mind posting the information again: What are the differences and likely causes of blue vs black smoke exhaust upon start up? How do you confirm the suspected cause? What are the likely repairs that will be needed?
Well, then, in general terms, blue smoke on start up is usually a sign of bad valve stem seals or in a turbo car, of turbo bearing wear. If the smoke persists all day long, then it is likely that there is piston ring wear as well, but if it goes away a few minutes after start up, then valve stem seals is a likely cause.
Black smoke is always a rich mixture..unburned hydrocarbons...could be a tune up problem, a bad injector, a bad sensor.
Probably the worst scenario is lots of WHITE smoke, which is usually indicative of a blown head gasket.
My wife's 1984 380sl has a very dirty exhaust when it first starts up. It is a mixture of black soot and water vapor. I am amazed at how much soot and water vapor this car puts out in the first 5 minutes of running. I put a piece of white cardboard under the tailpipe and in a few minutes had about 5-6 tablespoons of water with black particles foating around in it. After that it settles down and runs pretty clean, although moisture is seen even after running for 20 minutes.
Would it be worthwhile to run some injector cleaner through the gas?
I guess it couldn't hurt, although most over the counter injector cleaners are maintenance strength, not industrial strength....if you know a good repair shop, they can probably order you a stronger type of injector cleaner. Possibly the enrichment valve in your injection system is staying on too long. The older V8 SLs do tend to be gas hogs anyway, so there may not be much you can do for this. The water vapor is normal, as this is a natural by-product of the combustion of gasoline.
Appreciate the input since my wife just got her mothers 71 with hard top which has never been removed, sure the soft top is trash after 30 years. Not even sure when or if to try to take the top off since I expect the rubber to be baked to the body after that long. Seems they did keep it up nicely since with just a little wax it's a very nice burgundy, and the engine purr's although 4th in the auto seems to be a little high in the rev's at 65mph, shift points are smooth and it has respectable power for a six compared to what I know. Clock and radio don't work but we can get to that over time as we can make sure the maintenance records cover all the major things you have noted, like the timing belt. Looks to be a very good weekend car and a once in awhile commuter, my wife works in secure area so parking is great.
If anyone has a recommendation for a good mechanic in the Walnut Creek or Danville, CA area please pass along, just shop name, I can look it up and plan to get several inputs. Thanks again for the input on 280's and early 70's era.
Actually that car has a timing chain, not a belt, so no real worries there.
The 280 SL is geared very low, so the car is really wound tight at 75 mph. It's one of the car's less desirable characteristics....I'm sure the car could pull a higher gear ratio.
Yeah, I bet the soft top has rotted, but you know, you never know. Be sure to get the German=type top reinstalled if you want the car to have any resale value...don't put an American style vinyl top on, it just doesn't look right on the car.
What can you tell me about the '74 230's? I'm looking at one that seems to be in excellent shape, except for a minor dent on the passenger side. It's got 79K on it, was a weekend car for an elderly gentleman who babied it, kept it in a carport in Oklahoma City, and never drove it in inclement weather. Does 3 grand sound reasonable? A/C and everything seems to work fine. No rust. What kind of maintenance costs should I expect, and what kinds of issues are there typically with this model? Thanks.
Pretty sturdy car as I recall....the only issues I recall is that they had some trouble with the valves...something about how the valve is supposedto rotate in the head and occasinally gets stuck. So you want to check compression.
Also, the a/c systems on these cars are pathetic, so if you are expecting to stay cool in your hot summers, just forget it.
Price seems fair enough, miles are great! A nice 'little' car, but don't expect it to be worth anything in the future, because it won't be. It's just a nice used car--so don't sink a fortune into it.
They pulled the hard top at the dealer and with 4 guys working it, they got the soft top up and in place, took 4 tries and they had to dampen it to get it to streach, amazing after 30 years. Wife is now driving it just on nice days with the top off and the tune up, had forgetten about points and such, and they had to clean out break lines, mostly plugged. Since it had been repainted orignal burgundy just a few years back it is a great looker and fun to drive. Surprised at the nice sound from the 6 going up in 2nd and 3rd, but you're right, low gearing from the get go. Still have a few minor issues but will work them over time and with the weather in Nor Cal lots of days to enjoy the red roadster.
There is a broken chrome cover at the left of the drivers shoulder, through which the hard top latches. Any input on replacement? The guy at the dealer who basicly works older MB's said need to find a specialty parts dealer. Thanks again for any input and the prior as well.
You need to get a copy of Hemmings Motor News (www.hemmings.com) and look over the extensive listings in the "Mercedes Parts" section, which is just after the Mercedes Cars for Sale section. There are many, many parts outlets, and it's just a matter of e-mailing and calling the toll free numbers. I'm sure your part is in there, somewhere!
Be sure to tell wivey to rev that car up...if you putt around town, you're going to foul the plugs time and time again.
Comments
That being said, if the car is well serviced and checks out thoroughly, you might get another 75K out of it before a major overhaul of some sort. Biggest issues are the climate control systems and a/c, which aren't very good and may fail periodically. Also the automatic door locks seem to go on the blink a lot....be careful also to note if there's a whine in the differential as you accelerate. Other than that, I can't think of any endemic problem....of course, with any diesel you have to watch for fuel contamination (algae and water in the fuel tank), so if you buy the car be sure to treat the fuel every tankful with a conditioner and cetane enhancer and every once in a while with a bio-cide for algae.
AS for the turbo, it should be quiet...if the car smokes excessively when started cold, this could indicate a worn turbo. A bad a/c system may be the climate control valve or the a/c compressor, both of which cost hundreds of dollars. So play with every knob and switch and make sure everything works!
thanks for all the info so far this is very helpfull.
The 300 series is a big 5-cylinder car that is smoother and quieter by a long shot, and for that reason is a popular used car. I think I could sell mine in a red hot minute for $4,000 (but I won't).
I think that trans shift pattern is adjustable. A conversion would cost you more than the car is worth I think if it's a 4-door, and if it's a coupe you really wouldn't want to mess it up by cutting holes in the floor, or having to weld this and that, etc. I think you could get this car to shift sooner. Conversions of this sort are a big job, especially with the pedal assemblies, driveshafts, etc. Even on an easy car, such as my Saab, the conversion cost me over $3,000, and that is a "bolt-in" affair. And besides, I've driven stickshift models of this car and they aren't very nice to drive...the shifter is not very positive, and it's a big car to be shifting all day I think.
If this were a 280SL, I'd consider it, since the car warrants a stickshift and the value is upwards of $30K....but on your car I just don't see either the economics or the conversion itself being very satisfying.
Thanks in advance
gixwomack--the used car guides are pretty accurate....go to www.traderonline.com and see what the reasonable (middle range) asking prices are and go by that.
Routine maintenance is average for a luxury car--figure $300-400 for a routine maintenance check twice a year, plus whatever expendable parts might come up, like tires, brakes, mufflers, etc.
I would not recommend getting involved with this car, as I see it as nothing but a huge money pit with no rewards at the end of a long, hard road. If I were you, I'd rather look for a nice 6.9 sedan....it's cheaper to buy, almost as fast, and easier to deal with. Around $12,000 should be enough to buy any nice 6.3, and around $9,000 should get you a lovely 450SEL 6.9. If you really want a big Benz, consider the later 560SELs, also in this price range and a much better car than either of the earlier big V8s.
Anyway, my dad still has the car, runs like a dream, looks like it could be a 1994 because '88 was the first year of the new body style, and the bonus is it has a manual transmission. It is quite rare, there are only about 10 in Canada, probably 30 in all of N.A. 1988 was the last year 7's came with a standard, and he's a big guy so he needs the room, but loves a stick. The best deal he ever got!
Also, they are very noisy compared to the MB 5 and 6cylinder diesels.
I'm not a big fan of the 7-series BMWs, at least not an a used car. I think owning one from the beginning is great, but buying one as a high mileage used car from a stranger is rather scary. They are complex and major component repair is expensive. Also, in spite of your dad's preference, I think rowing around in a stickshift in a car of that size is a chore (to me). This is a big tourer and needs an automatic. The stickshifts are "rare" because nobody wanted them.
The MB 190 2.3-16 is an interesting car, possibly the only interesting 190 there is. Definitely worth a look, even though it is an "entry-level" Benz and pretty bare-bones in trim and materials. On the down side, I think (I THINK) a 1986 190 2.3-16 would be a gray market car, so you might want to investigate that further, and see if an MB shop will work on it and, if possible, have the shop assess the level of quality of the conversion work to US specs.
Sort of a minor collectible.
When you say bare-bones does it mean it willhave no air-conditioning, etc? The ad. says it is "loaded" and Kelley's blue book confims it comes with A/C and ABS as well. Any more info. you or any other TownHall correspondent can give me will be appreciated. I have never owned a Merc. and this will be my first.
Sorry, by "bare bones" I meant that the trim levels and quality of materials is not particularly lavish or extravagant...the interior and exterior of the 190 is pretty modest and austere...but it should have a/c, sure.
I think a stickshift 16V 190 would be fun, I'd certainly investigate it further....but remembrer, it's a used car and so you have to do your homework here. The car's ID plate would identify if it conforms to US specifications or not. But I wouldn't drag my feet...this car will be bought if the price is right.
Dgraves, your neighbor will have to leave the car in the field, or better still soup it up and use it as a autocross race car!
Price isn't particularly low...these cars are not well-known nor are they particularly admired by collectors. By and large, the 190 didn't have a good reputation, and the 16V got caught up in the bad press.
The only "crazy" part is that your chopped coupe will not be worth any more than it is now (presuming in very nice shape, maybe in the low 20s)....while a "real" 3.5 cabriolet low grille is worth 3 or 4 times that.
So you will endure substantial expense for no financial benefits, but only the pleasure of a top down experience. Given that scenario, you may want to consider getting your top down jollies in a little Alfa Romeo or MGB for under $10K.
The MB coupes do not have the value of the convertibles, nor will they ever come even close to matching them--the only exception being the Gullwing, of course, which outpaces its convertible sibling the 300SL roadster.
Some people will tell you that you are ruining a "classic" but they are not really in touch with history or the market on that....true, I myself would be reluctant to chop a 3.5 especially, but really it's your baby and the car is not so rare or valuable that it's the Mona Lisa or a hand-built Ferrari...they made over 4,500 of your car, and maybe half of those are still around somewhere, so it's not a one of kind type of thing.
The 3.5 cabriolet is a great cruiser, and hard to beat even in a modern car if you want top down, 5-passenger luxury. It would be fun for tours and club events.
My problem with going to a 2-seat convertible is that I have an 11 year old daughter who loves to go to the ice cream stand and other great destinations in the summer with a friend in the back seat of a convertible. I had a Saab 900SE conv. (1997) but got out of it last year. It had a great back seat for kids. With only 2 seats, we'd eliminate the summer night rides with my wife, daughter and a friend, and my daughter won't be 11 forever. (I live in Michigan, where you have to appreciate each summer night.) I'd worry about buying an older Saab conv., plus I do love the unique style and feel of the 1970 3.5. Any other suggestions for good cruising convertibles with a good back seat? The 3.5 would be hard to beat, even if it is a fake cab.
That mileage is very high, and just about anything could go wrong at that high number...the car has essentially done all that Mercedes or any reasonable person might expect, so really you are in completely unknown territory. I would certainly expect some problems, yes, but perhaps the basic driveline could still be okay. I'd worry more about the history of the transmission than the engine.
Try to buy it cheap and keep your fingers crossed is all I can say. Personally, cars with this much mileage have to prove themselves to me through an examination and good service records; otherwise, if the car cannot sell itself, I'd consider it nearless worthless at such high mileage...perhaps a $3,500 car. I bought a very clean, spotless 1980 300D for $1,200 with 212K on it...and really, I wouldn't have paid much more.
My mechanic, who i've trusted for close to 20 years has a fellow customer (also a long time customer) selling a 1992 190E with 105K miles. with all the options Edmunds returns a private party sale price between 8400 and 9200 for average to good condition. The seller is asking 9000. Are there any things to be wary of in this model/year? Do I have a reasonable expectation of driving it to 200K miles if its properly maintained?
Regards,
Charlie
If the original Becker radio is still in the car, you can throw that over a fence and get a decent unit. Also, as with all Benzes, please check out the climate control system thoroughly to make sure everything is working just right. Same with the power windows...if they struggle, you will have future problems I think. Climate control and power windows were not MBs forte back then.
The 2.6 is a sturdy little car and with good care should last 200K yes. Of course, some components will wear out before then, but the basic driveline should be fine and the build quality is good. Price seems okay, too.
The owner was pretty fastidious regarding maintenance. It handled well and all was in order but for the radio. It got reset needing a code from the dealer(?)to be able to use it. The climate control seemed to be ok. I'm still on the fence but it sure looked good.
Have you worked all the dials and switches and windows and sunroof etc. Play with everything!\Also, if you can see the prior service/repair records, this will give you an excellent idea of what's ahead.
Some automakers recommend running a lot of accessories while jump starting, to sort of share the load of the possible voltage surge.
Black smoke is always a rich mixture..unburned hydrocarbons...could be a tune up problem, a bad injector, a bad sensor.
Probably the worst scenario is lots of WHITE smoke, which is usually indicative of a blown head gasket.
Would it be worthwhile to run some injector cleaner through the gas?
If anyone has a recommendation for a good mechanic in the Walnut Creek or Danville, CA area please pass along, just shop name, I can look it up and plan to get several inputs. Thanks again for the input on 280's and early 70's era.
The 280 SL is geared very low, so the car is really wound tight at 75 mph. It's one of the car's less desirable characteristics....I'm sure the car could pull a higher gear ratio.
Yeah, I bet the soft top has rotted, but you know, you never know. Be sure to get the German=type top reinstalled if you want the car to have any resale value...don't put an American style vinyl top on, it just doesn't look right on the car.
Also, the a/c systems on these cars are pathetic, so if you are expecting to stay cool in your hot summers, just forget it.
Price seems fair enough, miles are great! A nice 'little' car, but don't expect it to be worth anything in the future, because it won't be. It's just a nice used car--so don't sink a fortune into it.
They pulled the hard top at the dealer and with 4 guys working it, they got the soft top up and in place, took 4 tries and they had to dampen it to get it to streach, amazing after 30 years. Wife is now driving it just on nice days with the top off and the tune up, had forgetten about points and such, and they had to clean out break lines, mostly plugged. Since it had been repainted orignal burgundy just a few years back it is a great looker and fun to drive. Surprised at the nice sound from the 6 going up in 2nd and 3rd, but you're right, low gearing from the get go. Still have a few minor issues but will work them over time and with the weather in Nor Cal lots of days to enjoy the red roadster.
There is a broken chrome cover at the left of the drivers shoulder, through which the hard top latches. Any input on replacement? The guy at the dealer who basicly works older MB's said need to find a specialty parts dealer. Thanks again for any input and the prior as well.
Be sure to tell wivey to rev that car up...if you putt around town, you're going to foul the plugs time and time again.