I wouldn't touch a 116 body car with rust. If you really want one, look for one in the southwest US, where rust is not a big problem. With all of the trim on the car, there are literally hundreds of places where there can be rust lurking, not to mention the trunk, where sometimes the whole spare well is missing or about to fall out. The design of the 116 tail lights allowed water to run into the trunk if the seals are bad. There are many fine late 70's MB cars available, from diesels, 280's, 450's, and a few 6.9's around, but it takes a lot of knowledge of the car and a lot of looking to find one. Also, these cars need a lot of maintenance to keep them in peak condition.
I have come across a pristine one with only 15,000 miles in a private estate. Perfect condition, no rust, full maintenance and sales documentation. One elderly owner. I can establish market value for condition 1 and condition 2 cars (6-point scale). Condition 1 is $16,000 and condition 2 is $11,200. I like these old 116 models and am familiar with them. Question: how much of a premium should one expect to pay for the very low mileage factor? Thanks
In post #48 you indicate that the US model 350SL had a 3.5 liter v8. I beg to differ. The US model 350SL, which was imported to the US only in 1972, has the 4.5 liter engine. This was the first year of the 107 chassis, which was sold in the US as the 350SL (1972), the 450SL (1973-80), the 380SL (1981-85) and the 560SL (1986-89). The 107 was sold in Europe beginning in 1971 with the smaller 3.5 liter engine. By the way, my 350SL is 107 chassis production number 531.
I think the 560SL is the best of the older style V-8 roadsters. As for price, it's simply not the kind of car one would buy at auction, and besides, they are so plentiful (they made a ton of them), why not just find one in your area? For a 1987 with that mileage, presuming very nice condition with all service records and no damage or needs, I'd say around high teens low 20s should be enough. These are fast, comfortable cars and very durable, but are too plentiful to ever be collectible. Nonetheless, their value will drop slowly since they represent a lot of car for the money, and in time they'll probably bottom out no lower than the 450SLs, around $12K-13K for very nice ones.
As for your sturdy MB diesel, as you know diesel cars are a hard sell in America, so your car would really best appeal to the Mercedes bargain-hunter. I don't think it would be worth very much, especially with that high mileage, and you'd be better off keeping it I think. Or donating it perhaps and taking a write-off? Otherwise, I don't think the market would bear more than $3,500-4,000 for the car in the best of circumstances.
I need a good reliable car and came across a 240D with 171K miles. This car is in excellent condition; new paint and garaged, new calipers and pads, plus other minor maintenance. The car still runs good but uses a quart of oil every 500 miles or so. The air conditioning is not working but seems a minor fix is in order. My question is this; is this car worth $4000 or is that out of line? It is a very clean car, all trim in excellent condition, no rust, interior almost perfect, and everything works. Don't want to pass up a potential good deal or get slammed with a car not worth anything. Thanks. TY
I think it is overpriced. The mileage is very very high, and in theory the car's useful life is over. The a/c is probably not a simple fix since Mercedes a/c of that era is notoriously bad and will never really work anyway. Also, the car is so slow as to be almost dangerous to drive on modern roads. Even as clean as it is, I can't see offering more than $1,500 for it. And the oil burning is not a good sign, either. Who knows? It could go on for years, but just because it's a cheap Mercedes doesn't mean it won't cost every bit as much to fix as a $40,000 one. I'd pass and keep your eye out for a clean 300SD with fewer miles. Much better car, and much more luxurious.
I THINK I am interested in purchasing a "collector or classic" MB. I am fond of the styling and attraction of the 230sl-280 sl models. I don't really know the first thing about how to value the cars, other than the CPI book, and I don't know whether these cars are 1) a collector, 2) a classic in the real sense, 3) just another old car 4)something to run away from due to high maintenance, etc. could you help me with your opinion on this? I DID drive a '67 250 SL on a whim, pretty nice, 4 spd, both tops, probably a 3-, 133K miles, drove nice, asking price $24K..... the books seem to thnk price should be between 10 and 16K. Is this more of a realistic price? Would a car like this likely hold it's value? How much should I expect to spend on maint/month if it drives 3K per year? Thanks for the help. I really am glad to have found this forum to help on this question.
I just bought a '74 234 in good condition with about 77K miles. Everything works fine, but I noticed something when I hit a traffic jam. Driving at that slow speed, there is a distinct oily smell coming through the vent. At higher speeds, there is enough fresh air coming in and you don't notice it.
Is this just something about the way vents were designed at that time? Or could it indicate a serious problem?
I'm interested in input from Mr. Shiftright and others on SL models. I've owned several Mercedes models over the years and still own an '85 300D and "86 420SEL, both in outstanding condition and just wonderful cars in every respect. Ten years ago I bought a mint low mileage '72 350SL. Unfortunately, three years ago it was hit while parked and had to be totaled. I've pined for another SL ever since. I've located a mint '88 with 44,000 miles. The price is a hefty $25,000 (perhaps slightly negotiable). Here is my dilemma: My wife prefers the post '90 model SL and I, too, like all the technological advances offered in those models. However, I don't think I want to spend over $35,000 for such an automobile. That means I will be limited to a '90-92 model. Some friends associated with the business have told me there were many annoying problems with these cars before the '94 models. Do you have any information on this? I feel the '88 model was basically "bulletproff" except for the usual problems of maintenance and wear. I don't mind spending a little for upkeep and repair over time but don't want to get into a model with a track record of chronic problems. Any imput would be appreciated.
The later SLs from the early 90s were, as you say, technically superior to the 560SL you were looking at, as well as more nimble and responsive overall.
The annoying problems you heard about were probably the usual complaints about Mercedes climate control systems, which were STILL substandard even around 1990--so you'll have to fiddle and test all the climate controls a great deal to be sure they are in good working order before you buy. The power tops also had glitches, sometimes exhibiting a less than smooth operation and water sealing problems. So test the top for smoothness and look for signs of water entry. Check also for irregular tire wear, as the early 90s SLs had alignment problems...if the car feels like it is wandering over ruts and bumps, you may need front end work.
But all in all, the newer SLs are prettier and sportier than the older cars...the only real advantage of the 560SL is a) price and b) that MB worked a lot of the bugs out of the old platform by 1988.
Like I always say for any used Benz:
1. Give the climate controls and electronics a very good testing yourself
2. Examine all service records and reject any car without them.
3. Have the car thoroughly examined by a qualified MERCEDES technician, not an Audi or Porsche or other "German" shop.
4. Don't buy a high mileage car, or if you do, pay very little for it. I wouldn't go for one much over 100,000 miles, on a complicated car like this, because this is when all the expensive service and repair items are likely, statistically, to begin. I personally think buying any Benz over 150K is foolish unless it is truly a bargain basement price, way, way, below wholesale book value.
I bought my wife a new Camry and she gave me permission to buy an older luxury type car if I kept the (non)investment in a reasonable range.
It has been repeatedly suggested by my business colleagues that I stop driving a 1990 VW Golf 4d (50K miles) around town and buy a Lincoln, MB, BMW, Audi, or Jag XJ6. They suggested that older classic luxury or sports cars were acceptable substitutes for a new luxury car. I don't have the money to buy new. I would like something big and nice...I am not a small person and would be driving some big and some snooty(discriminating tastes) type people around.
I love the big old SELs. I got to drive a 6.9 and a 500SEL for a few weeks each. I hate the 190s. I love the Jaguar XJ6s too. I don't know if I can afford anything I like though. I have crossed all Audis off the list because of previous problems we have had with them. I would also rather not end up with a Volvo or an older American luxo boat, but they would be better than the VW.
What models and years look reasonable at both ends (low 3k - high 7k) of the range. Again, I love big and medium sized MBs and Jags.
Are there cars I should concentrate on and what should I avoid.
Thanks in advance...I have enjoyed and benefited from your advice to others...
I really don't think that given your budget you could get anything worthwhile in that price range. The older Jags are cheap but dreadfully unreliable, but perhaps a 1990 XJ6 on up might work out for you.
With older luxury cars, you must buy the lowest mileage and best car you can afford. There are no "bargains". Even if someone GAVE you a 500SEL or XJ6 "needing work" you'd lose big time. Remember, the engines on these cars are worth more than the entire automobile!
I'd say for $7K find yourself a nicely maintained BMW 325 from the late 80s. It's a pretty safe bet and a decent car to drive, much more fun than a Benz or Jag. If you must have a Benz, try to find a 300E sedan. A Jag in your price range is not a good idea, IMO.
Well, you know, with such low mileage it's really up to the individual to decide if the low miles are worth paying the premium price. But it is definitely way above blue book price, and really your best course would be to drive it and get all the use you can out of it, since these cars will not appreciate in value. On the other hand, it's a lot of car for $30K, if you want to look at it that way. But the price you paid is best justified by using the car as your daily driver. Sounds like it has lots of life left in it, at least 150K miles, and the 560SL is my favorite of the older V8 SL models.
Just had an email from a friend whose wife wants an "SL". Last night he went and looked at one locally, in mint condition, and ends up buying it, noit knowing anything about old Benzes in general. I was just wondering, what's the scoop on this model, and how does it rate as an old Benz? What would be a fair price to pay? It has been owned by a gal who had double knee surgery, and didn't enjoy getting in and out of it anymore.
The scoop? Well, it's a very well-built heavy two seater that looks good, rides great, eats gas like a hog with a bad case of the munchies and handles like mom's sofa on a wax floor (oh, not really that bad, but if one is looking for a "sports car", this isn't it). Also pretty expensive to repair and maintain, but generally, with good care, it can be a reliable car and a nice everyday cruiser.
Regarding price, the supply is large (almost 70,000 made, and they last a long time), the demand somewhat low (due to age, abundance on the market and fear of repair costs, as well as a somewhat clumsy design compared to the earlier and much more attractive 280SLs), so the prices are not very high. Around $12K-13K should buy you a really, really nice one. The car has no collectible car value and isn't likely to for the above-named reasons...if it's still dropping in value after close to thirty years, it's not going up in our lifetimes I don't think.
You never know. The build quality is good so that's a bit of a trap. An old SL can look GOOD but really be worn out mechanically. Hopefully, he's in cheap enough to take car of normal things. Should the engine go, he'd pretty much have to junk the car, but as long as it's running well, it's a very nice way to look rich for cheap.
Can anyone help with a fair price for this car? It is my aunt's and she purchased it slightly used in 1985. It has 42K miles on it and looks good. The paint is a little dull but I figured on having it painted at some point. I will have the car gone over by a reputable Mercedes mechanic. I looked on Kelley's Blue book sit and they say 11.1k for a dealer car that has been "reconditioned" and 90 day warranty. I have never owned a Mercedes and don't have a feel for expenses associated with this old a car. So I need help with that also...but the car it great. Thanks.
Sounds like $7-8K should be enough for the car if it needs a repaint. The 380SL is the least valuable of all the V8 SLs, and none of theV8 SLs are particularly collectible anyway--so I wouldn't pay too much more than that for it.
Your mechanic can give you an idea of expenses. With the low mileage, you should be fine, but by all means have him check the timing chain and make sure the timing chain modifications have been done to this car (a double-chain instead of a single one).
i have really enjoyed scanning thru this forum. thanks for all the helpful info.
i have a personal facination with m-b diesels. i think i just love the diesels in general, but i live in the states and m-b is the only maker who still sells them (and not that many at that). i've been scanning the local paper lately looking at the non-turbo charged models from the early 80's and found a few in my area. i took the time to look at 3 of them this weekend. i found a bomb, an ok wagon, and a very clean 83 240D 4 speed. all of the above cars had an asking price for well over the kelley blue book price. from the one comment i read above on the diesels, the prices should not command any sort of premium even if serious restoration work had been done to them. i'm certain i will negotiate for the 83 240D. they are asking 4k on this car that had the engine rebuilt 50k ago. the blue book says about 2300$. should i add any more for a re-built engine?
Don't know a thing about Mercedes diesels, but your question reminded me that not all rebuilds are the same. My father bought a diesel VW Golf truck and then discovered that it smoked way more than it should, even for a diesel. Rather than go with a complete rebuild, he did a ring and valve that's lasted a good twelve years. I don't know what VW used for bearing material but it's good, very good. So check the receipts if any to find out whether it's a complete or partial rebuild. My guess is that even a complete rebuild really doesn't add much to market value, since a car with that many miles probably has plenty of other worn components, but I'm interested in what a bona fide expert in value would say.
No, rebuilds generally don't add value per se, since every used car is presumed to have a decent engine in it to begin with. However, a documented rebuilt engine with an extensively detailed repair order would certainly sway me to pay a fair price. But I'm not paying for the rebuilt engine ON TOP OFF the retail price of the car...no way.
As for early M-B diesel prices, I suppose an extra clean mint car would bring over Kelley Blue Book prices, but it would have to be something exceptional to "beat the book". Restored or "mint" originals do beat book prices, but remember, we are talking about 'gems' here, not just somebody's used car.
I presume you are prepared, in a 240D, to be the slowest car on the road. There is a certain amount of anxiety associated with driving this model for that reason.
yeah...i'm prepared to be faster than a speeding turtle. i just would like to have a nice reliable car to run about in. you know..something nice that you dont have to worry about when you are carrying stuff home from home depot. i just bought a '00 328Ci this summer so i can work out my aggressive tendencies when driving that.
thanks so much for the advice. i'll let you know how the test drive goes after tonight. i'm thinking its clean and well kept so not perfect so maybe i'll off 1900$. we'll see if he bites.
Okay....yes, it will definitely decrease your agression level because you ain't goin' nowhere fast!
If the car turns out to be too "rough" for you (they are rather vicious vibrators) you could try stepping up to a 300D, although I recommend a 300SD (turbo). In all Mercedes of that era, pay particular attention to the heating/ a/c systems, which are generally not very good.
what can i say? it drove great. shifted smoothly. idled smoothly even. not a rough thing about it. i couldnt get any cold air from the a/c but then again i couldnt figure out if i was hitting the right switches. every mercedes i get in has a different way of turning on the a/c but there was nothing on this one that just stood out. the only thing i could find was the temperature wheel. i'm not that worried about a/c anyway. its gonna be my workhorse car anyway.
i offered 1700$. i'm not sure if they will take it. the car is in a unique position. apparently the pastor of a church donated it to the church and now someone from the business office is in charge of getting rid of it. of course, several people on the "inside" have expressed an interest if nobody on the "outside" will pay what they want. we'll see what happens.
i drove the greatest little diesel ever tonight. it was seriously in great shape. only 129,000 miles on the sucker and very well taken care of. it purred a beautiful diesel purr and actually felt "peppy" on the rode. the interior looked great except where someone decided to make holes for a custom stereo system. exterior still had original paint and not a lick of rust. i wanted it bad!! the guy had it listed for 5000$. i just couldnt justify it for a car that old! that would move it into the, "take care of me i'm the perfect car!!" syndrome. that is exactly what i don't want. he wouldn't budge past 4500$. i tried.
Oh, the 220D is a much smoother and more sophisticated diesel engine than the old 190D and 200D. Night and day difference...the 300SD is even better IMO.
2 years ago I took over stewardship of an immaculate '76 300d that had been in the family since '78. What a great car. Smooth and vibe-free, classic styling but handles like a much newer car and way outclasses its American contemporaries. Once it finally reaches speed, it will fly. I accept up front that the only thing on the road I can pass is probably a 240d
i found just what i wanted and more. i found the perfect 300D '84. odometer says 95,000. i was skeptical about that but after driving it this whole weekend, it just might be correct. it drives like a champ. the a/c blows ice cold air. its apparent the car has been to the body shop at some point but i wasnt looking for a show car. i put some new michelins on the back today and had the front ones balanced. i also waxed her up to protect her from the elements. i think she'll do just fine for 3400$.
It's hardly a luxury car, but I drove my father's diesel VW pickup yesterday and brother, if it's typical of an old oil burner, you can count me out. I was barely keeping up with traffic so I thought, "what would happen if I floored it?". So I pushed harder on the accelerator and discovered it WAS floored. The only good thing is that no one tailgates you, because if they did they'd be asphyxiated.
Kind of reminded me of how you had to drive the Fiat 850, wringing every last ounce/foot of torque out of it just to get away from a stop sign. Only in the 850 you didn't even know you were always shifting at 5 grand, it was that smooth. Can't say that about the old VW diesel. I'm sure the MB is smoother.
The VW diesels of those days was pretty lame. I just drove a Mercedes 300D (80s era) to see if I remembered correctly, and while it was way better than the VW diesel it's still a pretty slow and noisy piece of work by modern standards. But these cars are cheap enough so that one really doesn't have much to complain about. A good stereo would definitely be in order to keep the noise out.
Modern diesel cars are much improved, although with state and Federal crack-downs on diesel emissions just around the corner, I really can't see any advantages to these cars anymore.
I'm not very keen on museum cars...they tend to be troublesome because of non-use, and yes, it is a high price because it is not a car that is appreciating in value at the moment. So this makes paying a premium price somewhat illogical unless you are really going to use the car a lot and get your money out of it that way. If that's your plan, the price is not outrageous...but this presumes it is perfect and needs nothing. Otherwise, if you pay $15K + repairs and you don't use the car, you've essentially paid paybe$17,500 in the end for a $12,500 car that will be worth the same or less than $`12,5K a year from now. Some of the V-8 SLs have bottomed out at $8K, so it could go as low as that.
So be careful and think it out carefully would be my advice. It has been my experience that museum cars usually need work.
Okay, I bought myself a pristine 1980 Mercedes 300D mostly because the condition was outstanding and the price really low.
So far so good...it is as slow and noisy and I told you, but I've added some dyna-mat insulation, had a full monster service done and fixed the tape deck, so it's not half bad. Also scrubbed the car inside and out to get rid of the diesel odor, and sprayed everything with OZIUM odor killer, including the vents, trunk, etc.
So right now I'm into the car for a total of $2,000 including the purchase, plates, taxes and major service. Not bad for a like-new sedan, even if it is a bit clunky. I'm amazed how well someone took care of this car.
Only thing left to do is repair, at some point, the notorious a/c system, which (as usual) has failed on this car. I located a compressor for $75 (used but good), but some people may not know that if a compressor "eats it" while driving, you really must replace the dryer and the expansion valve, because the system has been contaminated by the debris from the bad compressor. So I'm searching now for these parts.
There's a little whine in the differential but that's gear wear and could last for 50K miles...one never knows, but used cars are always a bit of a risk, right?
The 560SLs are easily the best of the V-8 SLs, so that's a good choice. I'm really not sure about fuel mileage, but of course a 1999 car would usually be more fuel efficient than a 1987 car, so I'd expect the Corvette to be better by a good margin.
As for which car to choose, they are rather radically different automobiles so I think the issue is more one of taste than comparison...you'd be well advised to spend a few hours in each car and allow the car to reveal itself to you, both pros and cons.
I would say though unless you are really into heart-stopping acceleration and extremely fast driving, the Corvette may be more car than you need. The 560 would be better for luxury long distance cruising.
Am interested in your opinion of the following: 1966 230SL, 117K (undocumented miles). Sheet metal patch on floor pan, slight rust in trunk, otherwise no evidence of rust on body panels. Good runner, no smoke, good compression. Two tops, good (not mint) interior. I am not looking for a show car, just a good, fun summer ride. Asking price is $10,900. Curious about (ball park) costs of engine rebuild and replacing floor pan and/or trunk sheet metal. This would be my first vintage car purchase. I am quite enamored of the looks and ride of this era of SL's. Would it make more sense to pay the extra $8-10K for a more pristine example... in otherwords, do I have $8-10K worth of work in front of me, not including general maintenance?
Yes, I think it would make sense to shop for a better car for a number of reasons:
One, the 230SL is the least collectible of the 6 cylinder AL series, whereas the 280SL is the most collectible and potentially best "investment" ( we mean by "investment", in relation to other collector cars, not in relation to stocks or mutual funds!).
Second, rust is a big no-no on these cars, and it will bedevil you... also expensive to fix.
Third, you can buy a nice 230SL for around $16K (decent, not a show car), and rust repair and paint would gobble up $5K easily
Fourth--an engine would cost you around $5K-6K easily.
Fifth--the 230SL is pretty slow and a rather stripped car compared to a 280SL
So, I'd say if you like the 230SL, it is fully priced as you see it and you'd best be careful how much more you put into it. As a driver it might be an okay deal... I'd certainly offer less, maybe around $8,500, because of the rust issue. You definitely have $10K work ahead of you, yes. If you need a hobby, go for it, otherwise, try to pick off that clean 280SL if you can..... and make sure it's a US car, not a European one, if possible. Last of all, a stick shift car is considered more desirable and worth perhaps $1,000-1,500 more.
Does anyone here have any experience with the large mid-70s MB sedans? How horrible is the upkeep on these cars? There's a 1977 6.9L in running shape that I've been looking at. There's something about these massive, powerful boats that attracts the red-blooded American in me. (Never mind that I drive Swedish car usually).
I wouldn't recommend buying one of those unless perhaps it was some spectacular low mileage mint condition car that you could buy cheaply, or resell quickly should it prove troublesome. The 6.9 engine would be very expensive to repair, and I believe some of those cars still used carburetors which were also troublesome.
I don't really see the sense in buying a less than perfect example of a 6.9, and I don't see the point in paying very much for one, because they aren't worth anything as a collectible.
Just look at one as you would a used car. If you want a nice old luxury 4-door Benz, go for an 80s model 560SEL. They are everything a 6.9 is and much more, and if you shop you can find them priced quite reasonably.
I'm looking for a 80-84 911 model to buy as a 3rd vehicle. Anyone have some advice as to what not to buy, look out for and what is the best models for long term keeping as a show model and such. I am well versed in maintainence and have driven sporst cars for over 20 some years. Presently own an MZ3 and 328i. Thanks
They're all good cars in that year range. If you mean by "show model" a collector car, they really aren't collector cars at this point in their lives, as they are fairly common. The 1983 cabriolet would be a car worth having, and it may grow in value in another 10-15 years, since they only made some 4,187 of those. The 1984 Carrera is a changed model from the 1983 coupes, more luxurious and more powerful, with different FI system, so that might be of interest to you as well.
These are sturdy cars you want to buy, drive and use up. They hate being stored in garages, and will deteriorate rapidly if you do that.
Thansk for the infor. I'm reading several boards and the coments are mostly the same. It comes down to common sense with buying an older car. This will not a a "show" car but one to show off by driving and keeping it clean. Will drive but not to death. Thanks
Take care of it and it'll take care of you. What I meant by "use it up" was "don't baby it". You can drive a Porsche hard, in fact you should, it can take it and that's what it was built for...high rpm performance. "Soft" driving or longtime storage just kills 'em, IMO.
Comments
As for your sturdy MB diesel, as you know diesel cars are a hard sell in America, so your car would really best appeal to the Mercedes bargain-hunter. I don't think it would be worth very much, especially with that high mileage, and you'd be better off keeping it I think. Or donating it perhaps and taking a write-off? Otherwise, I don't think the market would bear more than $3,500-4,000 for the car in the best of circumstances.
TY
2) a classic in the real sense, 3) just another old car 4)something to run away from due to high maintenance, etc. could you help me with your opinion on this?
I DID drive a '67 250 SL on a whim, pretty nice, 4 spd, both tops, probably a 3-, 133K miles, drove nice, asking price $24K..... the books seem to thnk price should be between 10 and 16K. Is this more of a realistic price?
Would a car like this likely hold it's value? How much should I expect to spend on maint/month if it drives 3K per year?
Thanks for the help. I really am glad to have found this forum to help on this question.
with about 77K miles. Everything works fine, but
I noticed something when I hit a traffic jam.
Driving at that slow speed, there is a distinct
oily smell coming through the vent. At higher
speeds, there is enough fresh air coming in and
you don't notice it.
Is this just something about the way vents were
designed at that time? Or could it indicate
a serious problem?
--concerned
The annoying problems you heard about were probably the usual complaints about Mercedes climate control systems, which were STILL substandard even around 1990--so you'll have to fiddle and test all the climate controls a great deal to be sure they are in good working order before you buy. The power tops also had glitches, sometimes exhibiting a less than smooth operation and water sealing problems. So test the top for smoothness and look for signs of water entry. Check also for irregular tire wear, as the early 90s SLs had alignment problems...if the car feels like it is wandering over ruts and bumps, you may need front end work.
But all in all, the newer SLs are prettier and sportier than the older cars...the only real advantage of the 560SL is a) price and b) that MB worked a lot of the bugs out of the old platform by 1988.
Like I always say for any used Benz:
1. Give the climate controls and electronics a very good testing yourself
2. Examine all service records and reject any car without them.
3. Have the car thoroughly examined by a qualified MERCEDES technician, not an Audi or Porsche or other "German" shop.
4. Don't buy a high mileage car, or if you do, pay very little for it. I wouldn't go for one much over 100,000 miles, on a complicated car like this, because this is when all the expensive service and repair items are likely, statistically, to begin. I personally think buying any Benz over 150K is foolish unless it is truly a bargain basement price, way, way, below wholesale book value.
It has been repeatedly suggested by my business colleagues that I stop driving a 1990 VW Golf 4d (50K miles) around town and buy a Lincoln, MB, BMW, Audi, or Jag XJ6. They suggested that older classic luxury or sports cars were acceptable substitutes for a new luxury car. I don't have the money to buy new. I would like something big and nice...I am not a small person and would be driving some big and some snooty(discriminating tastes) type people around.
I love the big old SELs. I got to drive a 6.9 and a 500SEL for a few weeks each. I hate the 190s. I love the Jaguar XJ6s too. I don't know if I can afford anything I like though. I have crossed all Audis off the list because of previous problems we have had with them. I would also rather not end up with a Volvo or an older American luxo boat, but they would be better than the VW.
What models and years look reasonable at both ends (low 3k - high 7k) of the range. Again, I love big and medium sized MBs and Jags.
Are there cars I should concentrate on and what should I avoid.
Thanks in advance...I have enjoyed and benefited from your advice to others...
With older luxury cars, you must buy the lowest mileage and best car you can afford. There are no "bargains". Even if someone GAVE you a 500SEL or XJ6 "needing work" you'd lose big time. Remember, the engines on these cars are worth more than the entire automobile!
I'd say for $7K find yourself a nicely maintained BMW 325 from the late 80s. It's a pretty safe bet and a decent car to drive, much more fun than a Benz or Jag. If you must have a Benz, try to find a 300E sedan. A Jag in your price range is not a good idea, IMO.
Regarding price, the supply is large (almost 70,000 made, and they last a long time), the demand somewhat low (due to age, abundance on the market and fear of repair costs, as well as a somewhat clumsy design compared to the earlier and much more attractive 280SLs), so the prices are not very high. Around $12K-13K should buy you a really, really nice one. The car has no collectible car value and isn't likely to for the above-named reasons...if it's still dropping in value after close to thirty years, it's not going up in our lifetimes I don't think.
Your mechanic can give you an idea of expenses. With the low mileage, you should be fine, but by all means have him check the timing chain and make sure the timing chain modifications have been done to this car (a double-chain instead of a single one).
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i have a personal facination with m-b diesels. i think i just love the diesels in general, but i live in the states and m-b is the only maker who still sells them (and not that many at that). i've been scanning the local paper lately looking at the non-turbo charged models from the early 80's and found a few in my area. i took the time to look at 3 of them this weekend. i found a bomb, an ok wagon, and a very clean 83 240D 4 speed. all of the above cars had an asking price for well over the kelley blue book price. from the one comment i read above on the diesels, the prices should not command any sort of premium even if serious restoration work had been done to them. i'm certain i will negotiate for the 83 240D. they are asking 4k on this car that had the engine rebuilt 50k ago. the blue book says about 2300$. should i add any more for a re-built engine?
As for early M-B diesel prices, I suppose an extra clean mint car would bring over Kelley Blue Book prices, but it would have to be something exceptional to "beat the book". Restored or "mint" originals do beat book prices, but remember, we are talking about 'gems' here, not just somebody's used car.
I presume you are prepared, in a 240D, to be the slowest car on the road. There is a certain amount of anxiety associated with driving this model for that reason.
thanks so much for the advice. i'll let you know how the test drive goes after tonight. i'm thinking its clean and well kept so not perfect so maybe i'll off 1900$. we'll see if he bites.
If the car turns out to be too "rough" for you (they are rather vicious vibrators) you could try stepping up to a 300D, although I recommend a 300SD (turbo). In all Mercedes of that era, pay particular attention to the heating/ a/c systems, which are generally not very good.
i offered 1700$. i'm not sure if they will take it. the car is in a unique position. apparently the pastor of a church donated it to the church and now someone from the business office is in charge of getting rid of it. of course, several people on the "inside" have expressed an interest if nobody on the "outside" will pay what they want. we'll see what happens.
Aha! I was right about the a/c though. It doesn't matter if it works or not...it blows the same temperature working or not
Oh, the 220D is a much smoother and more sophisticated diesel engine than the old 190D and 200D. Night and day difference...the 300SD is even better IMO.
Kind of reminded me of how you had to drive the Fiat 850, wringing every last ounce/foot of torque out of it just to get away from a stop sign. Only in the 850 you didn't even know you were always shifting at 5 grand, it was that smooth. Can't say that about the old VW diesel. I'm sure the MB is smoother.
Modern diesel cars are much improved, although with state and Federal crack-downs on diesel emissions just around the corner, I really can't see any advantages to these cars anymore.
Am interested in buying from Volo Museum, is
15,000 too high for mint condition w/hardtop?
61,000 miles
Click on New Arrivals, go tp the third page and scroll down. What do you think?
So be careful and think it out carefully would be my advice. It has been my experience that museum cars usually need work.
So far so good...it is as slow and noisy and I told you, but I've added some dyna-mat insulation, had a full monster service done and fixed the tape deck, so it's not half bad. Also scrubbed the car inside and out to get rid of the diesel odor, and sprayed everything with OZIUM odor killer, including the vents, trunk, etc.
So right now I'm into the car for a total of $2,000 including the purchase, plates, taxes and major service. Not bad for a like-new sedan, even if it is a bit clunky. I'm amazed how well someone took care of this car.
Only thing left to do is repair, at some point, the notorious a/c system, which (as usual) has failed on this car. I located a compressor for $75 (used but good), but some people may not know that if a compressor "eats it" while driving, you really must replace the dryer and the expansion valve, because the system has been contaminated by the debris from the bad compressor. So I'm searching now for these parts.
There's a little whine in the differential but that's gear wear and could last for 50K miles...one never knows, but used cars are always a bit of a risk, right?
As for which car to choose, they are rather radically different automobiles so I think the issue is more one of taste than comparison...you'd be well advised to spend a few hours in each car and allow the car to reveal itself to you, both pros and cons.
I would say though unless you are really into heart-stopping acceleration and extremely fast driving, the Corvette may be more car than you need. The 560 would be better for luxury long distance cruising.
One, the 230SL is the least collectible of the 6 cylinder AL series, whereas the 280SL is the most collectible and potentially best "investment" ( we mean by "investment", in relation to other collector cars, not in relation to stocks or mutual funds!).
Second, rust is a big no-no on these cars, and it will bedevil you... also expensive to fix.
Third, you can buy a nice 230SL for around $16K (decent, not a show car), and rust repair and paint would gobble up $5K easily
Fourth--an engine would cost you around $5K-6K easily.
Fifth--the 230SL is pretty slow and a rather stripped car compared to a 280SL
So, I'd say if you like the 230SL, it is fully priced as you see it and you'd best be careful how much more you put into it. As a driver it might be an okay deal... I'd certainly offer less, maybe around $8,500, because of the rust issue. You definitely have $10K work ahead of you, yes. If you need a hobby, go for it, otherwise, try to pick off that clean 280SL if you can..... and make sure it's a US car, not a European one, if possible. Last of all, a stick shift car is considered more desirable and worth perhaps $1,000-1,500 more.
good luck!
Shift right
I don't really see the sense in buying a less than perfect example of a 6.9, and I don't see the point in paying very much for one, because they aren't worth anything as a collectible.
Just look at one as you would a used car. If you want a nice old luxury 4-door Benz, go for an 80s model 560SEL. They are everything a 6.9 is and much more, and if you shop you can find them priced quite reasonably.
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These are sturdy cars you want to buy, drive and use up. They hate being stored in garages, and will deteriorate rapidly if you do that.
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