Volkswagen Phaeton

andyman73

I saw a nice silver one parked near a Pep boys, I saw the rear end sticking out and recognized it instantly. Unfortunatly, I am not in the financial situation to purchase one of these lovely cars. For my clam it would be the W12, loaded up. Still be the cheapest 12 burner to buy. I feel sorry for you lucky owners who are getting shafted by second class service centers. Local Mercury dealer treats my wife like a queen, with her 2 month old 04 Sable LS premium wagon. Honestly I'd love to be able to afford those kinds of headaches. I hope all of you will be able to find a true Phaeton service center. Best wishes to you all.

ricco

My BILaw purchased a 99 Lexus. .. after about a year, the engine froze up... needed a new short block... . Lexus said provide us with oil change receipts and we will put a new engine in.. . he couldn't come up with any such receipts. . . Lexus gave him a new engine anyway. . absolutely no cost to him.

andyman73

My MIlaw drives a 97 ES300, since new, nary a niggle with it. FIlaw convinced his BIlaw to take it around the block. BIlaw said it made his Aurora seem second rate. Promptly went and bought a 2000 LS400 in fall of 99. Loved it so much that he bought an 01 LS430 in spring of 01. Now is looking at the 05 LS430s. During same time frame he went through 3 motorcoaches. His current one is a 400K Safari. Must be nice to have cheddar like that.

peterphaeton

Hello,

Has anyone gotten a great lease deal on a 2004 phaeton like the ones I have read about, in central florida or north florida, even georgia? I am currently looking. If so what was your deal and which dealership?

Thanks

dcowan699

My W12 phaeton has been a wonderful car purchase. Everyone that sees it goes nuts over it. I will never listen to the negativity I read about this car again as everything bad I've read has not been true. The handling is great, It is quiet, Has plenty of torque and the comments I get from people have been much more positive than I ever expected. I was surprised to hear so many people say, "I like it much better than your MB" . I recommend this car with 5 stars*****
As with any car, especially a different brand, their are things I had to get used to, but only a few days behind the wheel and I'm already adjusted.

Go get one, you will be happy!

bobm1

I have the V* and ditto on the 5 stars. And I've had mine since last January and it is still my favorite car ever. It's funny when you read from all the naysayers, none of them owners BTW. Go to the specific Phaeton forums and read the posts from us owners and you will see a common thread of very happy owners. For the price, there isn't a better car.

corral

IThis car is beautifull and well crafted. But mine is full of problems, I have spent the whold day dealing with this and resent that I ever bought this car. It has it's flaws but the servicing dealer has made me hate it. Either you can afford true luxuary and buy an audi a8 or lexus ls 430 or you can get the yugo of luxuary cars the Phaeton. Love the car hate the dealers.

vwguild2

Seems as if you are throwing out the baby with the bath water...99% of these automobiles have been bulletproof...I would suggest another Dealer; not another car...

corral

Actually, I contacted one of the best lemon law attorneys in the us and he has all ready won got 2 phaetons bought back in less than one year. I don't have time for a car like this. I expect more and I will get more. I miss my old Lexus.

lastwatcher

I have had the 04 V8 for about three months now, and really enjoy the car. Looked at lots of other lux brands and went with this happily. I do have a few issues I would like owner feedback on please.

The navigation system is really below par. My wife's Acura MDX could get you to Mars with little hassle and has a great display and interface (that actually tells you the street you are on!). Anyone know if we have something better coming our way in 05 to retrofit or upgrade an 04?

Most important, the car just does not pull away smoothly from low speeds to the 45 to 70 mph range no matter how I try to use the gas pedal. I don't mean the engine is rough, I mean I can feel it kind of lurch (best way to describe it, sorry) during normal driving. It does not happen in sport mode. My guess is that it is related to the auto transmission in regular drive mode. It goes through the gears so fast that I am in 4th and even 5th or 6th at pretty low speeds. So maybe it is just moving through the range too quickly?? But, it is not acceptable for a high end car. I have one friend that owns the same car and has said he has the same feel. Anyone else? I have not gone to the dealer yet, as I have not had time. My friend did call them and they gave him some response about the car "learing" how you like to drive. Sounds good, but who likes to drive in a lurching way?

Anyone got any thoughts? Could this be adjusted via computer?

corral

I also own a Phaeton and the nav system is far below industry standard. I find the Japanese Dvd touch screen it has been in the shop for most of the best. But most other German cars have a dvd nav system and work better. None of the german cars now have a touch screen that I know of. s for the transmission issue, I have only driven my car about 300 miles it has been in for repairs for most of the 18 days I had it. I owned a mercedes and it had a learning transmission and the dealer reset the computer 2 times to cure the problem, I found the shift problem worse when I had lent the car to other drivers using my key, So if you lend the car to any one then let them use the guest key and guest mode.

vwguild2

Your PHAETON's NAV will also show you the street that you are on and where your next turn will be...This is displayed in the Center information screen between the Tach & Speedo...Are you familiar with those functions?

lastwatcher

Thanks for that info. Sorry to hear you have been shop bound. While I have not been in the shop yet my few calls to service has been below my expectations. I had this impression that calling and identifying yourself as a Phaeton owner sent people running on the double to help. Not so, so far.

I hope they can reset the transmission in some way. I am just waiting for one of my lux car owning friends to take a ride with me and start to ride me about getting whiplash!

Enjoy the holidays.

lastwatcher

Yes, I am aware of that. But you have to have a destination in the system in order to get that very basic information. I did know this was not the best nav system around, but I did not know how poor it was. With others (including our Acura) when you drive around it gives you a full map with all street names and highlights lots of good stuff if you wish. It is really a short coming to have to have a destination in the system just to get a street name, and even then, just the street you are on! I am very disappointed. Since it is CD based, (also a short coming in my opinion) is there any word on an upgrade for this in the future?

Any input on the issue I mentioned regarding the less than smooth acceleration? It is noticable enough that I just drive in sport, which is not a great thing to have to resort to.

corral

I got my car back yesterday and it still smells like rotten eggs. They factory claims it is normal. They voltage problems still exist and the tech said it seems normal, but was concerned that the stereo does not work at times. But offers no solution. Now my infotainment system screen is just blank and I cant even adjust the front climate controls. This car comes out of the shop with more problems than it started with. I blame the servicing dealer and not the auto maker. The auto maker has a duty to its customers to weed out bad dealers and honor its promise to a customer. So it looks like I will be driving a low end enterprise rental,Vw has offered to to repurchase the car but not replace it. I can't get another one for the same lease deal so I want a replacement under the same lease contract. I will unfortunately have to use legal representation to enforce my rights. What the point of t his post is that reading that most of these cars are good, I am willing to try it again. But Vw owes it to it's customers to provide the high level of customer service to phaeton customers and all of their customer for that fact and get rid of dealers that act like the one I got my car from.

loslobos71

Does anyone know when the DVD nav. will be available? Is the CD one like the one in the older Audi's, where they give you an arrow and tell you when to make the next turn? Is it any good? Thanks

vwguild2

Where did you get this PHAETON?

corral

email me at twplus2is4@aol.com

 

I got my car at a dealer in Northern california

 

I wish not to have any leagal problems from posting thier name on the web sight.

pat

Corral, you are free to post the dealer's name here (check the Rules of the Road at the top of the page for the specific do's and don'ts), but I strongly suggest you not post your email address. The spam bots will pick it up and in short order you will be inundated.

 

You have your email address public in your profile - this means that any registered, logged-in Forum member can find it without you putting it into a posted message.

 

If you'd like me to delete the message where you posted your address, just drop me an email.

vcheng

I have been lurking on this board for quite a while now. The reason to disengage the cloaking device is the following deal:

 

Base V8 Phaeton Gray/Black, MSRP: 66,400, 3 year / 36k miles lease, $4000 to drive off, monthly payment $559.

 

I suppose one could drive a harder deal, but this seems reasonable to me. I would love to hear opinions.

 

Coming from a 2003 LS430, I look forward to my first lease, my first german car, and my first four wheel drive car.

 

I will post back when I get the vehicle.

 

PS: There is one more Phaeton available that I know of, but it is $70k with a few added goodies, and a deep reddish color that I did not like. There may be only a few more 2004 cars left out there. One dealer told me there wer 135 cars in port as of October 12, but they appear to be mostly gone now.

murphdog

Good lease if it weren't for the $4000 cap reduction. You should have been hit with 1st month and some dealer fees (no more than $150). If you haven't signed, go back and re-do. They will do it for you. The dealers want these 04's off there lots. I heard from my dealer that many Phaeton dealers are going to deep six it when their inventory is gone.

 

in the dealers defense, the deal that VW put together for them stinks (from a financial point of view). My dealer has had his 2 initial cars sitting on the lot for 8 months. I am taking one of them next Thursday. It just happens to be the deep red (Aubergine) with Sonnenbeige interior. MSRP was 70,215. My deal with $0 down was $651 for 36 month/45K miles and that includes 5% sales tax. The selling price of the vehicle was $60K even. You should have negotiated your car to somewhere around $55K with all the dealer money available.

 

I am interested to get your thoughts regarding the switch from the LS to VW. I am getting out of a 2002 GS430 (one of 4 Lexus' over the past 7 years)and still have the LS430 calling me. I am still skeptical about making the switch, but I figure if I make a mistake, it's only a lease...

bkpawsat

Today is Sunday and I'm still trying to negoatiate a lease for a 2004 Phaeton with a $70,415 sticker price. I'm using an internet ad that quoted $3000 down and $559 mo for 36 months, 12k miles per year. If you can't find a good deal on the 04's, wait 6 months. I'm sure VW will offer incentives on the 05's.

 

If VW had marketed this car in the $55,000 price range at introduction, I would have bought one last summer. AT $72,000 there are too many other tempting BMW's Merc's and Lexus's but with a lease under $600, I can sleep at night knowing that I'm not risking what will surely be a very steep depreciation rate on these cars.

vcheng

Murphdog: Thank you for the comments.

 

I'm a complete novice at leasing. The way I looked at it is as follows:

 

4k + 36*559 = $24,124 for 36k miles of driving a base v8 Phaeton. This would seem like a reasonably good value lease at 67 cents per mile. Of course insurance and gasoline costs would be on top of this, but all maintenance is included, so other than maybe a set of tires over the lease (touch wood) I should not have any other out of pocket expenses.

 

I think the deal includes the whole initial shebang in the $4k, the tax rate of 8.25%, new plates etc. The residual value is 55% of MSRP.

 

The initial offer was 5k down, 599/month. I got it down to what I've said above. To go to 15k miles / year would have taken the monthly payment to 598 with a residual value of 52%.

 

My only frame of reference was my friend who is leasing a BMW 325xi sedan for $7k down, 400/month for 3 years, 36 k miles.

 

I hope I am not going to be proven a total fool.

 

After 4 Lexuses in three years, I figured a change would be nice.

 

I look forward to your comments and contributing mine to this board.

fish8

As long as your happy with your purchase that is all that counts. But, I think some of the comments on this board are directed to the fact that you could of gotten a similar deal with more $$ remaining in your pocket. But, if you have the money and $4,000 is not substantial to you, be happy with your purchase.

vcheng

markcincinnati

Gulp, maybe the best way to be introduced to your first German Car is to swing for a new Audi A6 4.2 with all the goodies or a SWB A8.

 

I keep reading the dealer issues herein, and love German cars (esp VW and Audi) as I do, I would hate for your first experience to be sub par -- even with this deep discount on the mo pay.

 

Just a thought.

lastwatcher

I posted a few times recently and got a bit of feedback, but would like others if they are out there.

My car is the V8, 2004 model:

 

Anyone else experience a somewhat lurching acceleration in the regular drive mode when going from stop or low speed to 40 to 70 mph. It feels like the throttle is uneven or the gear shifts are not smooth.

 

Also, the nav system is very poor. Does anyone know if we have hopes of upgrades for existing 04 models? Sure would like to know what street I am on and the streets around me when I am out for a drive. I know you can get the street you are on if you have a destination inputted. But I often don't need to do that, I just want to see the info displayed.

markcincinnati

You seem to have the same problem many Audi owners have -- tip lag or drive by wire "feature" -- I noted in great detail the work around availble on late model tiptronics from Audi over in the A6 forum.

 

I would doubt there will be an upgrade to the Nav system, there should be, however, replacement and updated CD / maps.

 

Ask VWGUILD -- he knows almost everything and is very keen to help.

vwguild2

I wish that there was a simple one sentence answer to this question, but I am afraid that there is not...

 

It would seem that certain commitments had been to the PHAETON system that dates back to 2002.

 

There are new alliances regarding NAV & Bluetooth that will be found on the Touareg, A5 Jetta, and B6 Passat later next year. And my assumption, in the PHAETON next year as well.

 

It is my understanding that to make "UpGrades" would be prohibitively expensive.

 

In terms of priorities, I can only surmise that that the overall performance, fit & finish, and value of the PHAETON has greater import than the NAV for the typical owner. At least this has been true in my experience...both as merchant & driver.

 

Because of the overall more adventurous spirit and requirements OffRoad for the Touareg owner,

and because the Touareg NAV is much more complex,

retrofitting it first makes sense...

 

As to the PHAETON NAV...I really believe that, although certainly not perfect or the best, it is basically adequate to the task. The greater priority, to me, is the addition of BlueTooth technology and this is being addressed with vigor.

oac

Hi vcheng:

 

After 4 Lexuses in three years, I figured a change would be nice

 

If you will be leasing, why not get a real luxury car from Audi instead of a VW ? At least, you can expect somewhat higher level dealership treatment when you bring your car in for those appointments. Does VW give loaners on their Phaeton ? And this car (Phaeton) has no real history to predict how the next 36 months of the lease will pan out. Compared to an LS, the Phaeton is not as great a choice of change, unless there is a $ factor.

 
But a VW is a VW.....

 

Good luck, and let us know how this VW rates relative to your prior 4 Lexuses.

vcheng

Well, it came down to 1500 down, 559/month, 36 months, 12k per year, on a 2004 base v8 Phaeton.

 

Routine factory service is included, and the dealer will give either a Phaeton or a Touareg as a loaner.

 

Coming from an LS430, it is an interesting change. The driving experience is different, and I will post my impressions here as I get some miles under the belt.

 

The bad news is that it has to go back for replacement of the rear windscreen due to a manufacturing flaw. Not an auspicious start, but at least the dealer is being very helpful.

corral

I have still been having problems with my car. I was driving out of the area when my natural gas smell returned and my passengers began getting sick. I dropped the vehicle off for service at the most local dealer and was told they would call that afternoon. That was Monday, they finally called Friday at 4:30 and said pick it up. I tried to get vw customer service via the onstar but it was not working due to the voltage problem. The vehicle was returned and they told me the rotten smell comes from using low grade fuel. The car has had 4 tanks of gas the original one on purchase and 3 tanks of chevron supreme. I was told that dimming lights on the dash and dome are normal. And that the transmission is designed to slam into gear between 1st and 2nd. The onstar works properly even though the green light is not on and if you push the button it sometimes will never connect or say onstar un aviable. They never addressed the blank infortinment screen even though it was listed on the check in reciept. So the car is now 1 month old, it has 1200 miles, of which 840 are put on by the dealers of intransit to service. I have made 6 trips for service one on a tow truck, and spent 20 days in a car rental. And the selling dealer backed my car into another car and damaged the bumper, they agreed to fix it and won't return my calls. Buyer Beware Other Automakers want luxuary car buyers and treat them with respect.

vwguild2

Congratulations! Welcome to the Volkswagen Family!!!

 

Have never heard of a problem with the rear glass...What is that all about?

vwguild2

That is some Baaad karma...

corral

Bad karma Not. Bad dealerships and poor customer service from an automaker. I doubt Lexus did not get to the top of customer service satisfaction by treating their customers like Vw and their dealers do. BUY A LEXUS BOYCOTT LOUSY COMPANIES LIVE VW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lastwatcher

Sorry for all your troubles. Please tell me just a bit more re the slamming from 1 to 2 gear. My 04 V8 really jams in to 1st when down shifting from 2nd as you roll to a stop. If I'm not covering the brake it really lurches and accelerates as a result. One of these days I'm going to rear end someone as a result. Is yours having that problem?

sapparo

That's not bad karma that's VW at higher price level LOL. Have no fear Lexus will always be here and getting better. Leasing is the only way to go on this one once they pull the plug on it.

corral

I have the same problem , the phaeton tech called me today and told me vw master hotline tells him there is no soloution to this and he has dealt with it on almost every car he works on. He tells me to drive in sport mode and that he hopes theat they will have a software patch for the transmission soon. How lousy of vw to expect us to drive around with a slamming tranny untill they have time to work on it. So vw of america's responce is that this is "normal". Even though they are working on resiolutions. Go figure

paldi

Getting closer to offering "about $60k" on a msrp $72 V8 with 50 miles on the clock. Black. Rumors are flying that a lot of dealers won't be selling them in 2005. Seems to be a few big players in city markets and the rest are not selling many.

 

Better to buy a useed one at Manheim auction for $42,000 with 8-10k miles or negotiate harder with the dealership on the "new" 2004?

lastwatcher

Please respond, by same problem do you mean it happens when you downshift from 2 to 1 and the car tends to accelarate as a result?? Not good regarding the "answer" that VW gave. Uh oh, can't wait till I get to experience a real service call.

 

NEW PROBLEM and a QUESTION

Any Phaeton owners experienced a window freeze up after a little rain that iced up the windows at the bottom? We had just a small amount of rain and sub zero temps here in Connecticut last week and my windows would not power through the small amount of ice that formed at the rubber stipping a the base of the window frame. I had to slip a knife in to crack the ice up and break the seal to get them to operate. Our other two cars had no problems at all. I hope this is not a reoccuring issue, as it is a pretty common weather experience here in the Northeast. Anyone have a similar issue yet?????

vcheng

No problems with ice or snow freezing up the windows so far, although it has been down to minus 6F.

 

Just one thing: My fuel consumption is at about 11.5 mpg! How about others?

murphdog

Dealer in Quincy, Ma is advertising the last 2004 in stock @ $55.6K ($70.6K MSRP). I think the earlier post is dead on about dealers getting out the Phaeton business. I bought mine out of state, and I talked to the GM when I picked mine up Saturday, and the are likely to ditch the program. I think they are making a big mistake. VW just mis-fired when they priced the car. When VW gave dealers all the money back (~10K)over the last 2-3 months, it became difficult to find 04's. That should send a message that unless you're willing to commit a new badge to the car, ala Lexus and Infiniti, you're price point needs to come down.

 

Nobody wanted to pay 40-45K for a Toyota in 1989 (or whenever Lexus rolled out). Now not many people want to pony up 65-80K for a VW. Call it the Bentley Phaeton, and you won't be able to keep them in stock!!

 

If the next 3 years are like the first 3 days, I will be one satifisfied customer. For the money, I can't imagine driving anything comparable. My lease is $650 for 3 years and 45K miles ($0 down, $70.6K MSRP). You can't find an LS 430, 745, S500 or XJ for that money anywhere. And I am amazed how many looks the car has gotten, not to mention the people in parking lots asking what it is or how I like it etc. It may not have the cache of the above mentioned cars, but driving a car that is rarely seen on the road is kind of fun. I just hope nobody has the experience that "corral" has had!!

 

I hope the Phaeton owners/drivers on the board continue to update us on the experiences (good and bad).

paldi

The 2004s are difficult to find because there arn't very many 2005s here yet either. Supply is drying up as the smaller VW dealers hesitate to stock them. Sure, they'll Order one for a customer, but what about trying to Sell one if there's nothing in the showroom to demo? Maybe they expect you to test drive a Toureg and buy a Phaeton if you were impressed?

ffb13

i have been out of here for many months .

not because i was censored when i blasted vwguild or the host took a dislike to my posts,but because after wanting badly to buy a phaeton ,the results of all my research pointed out a number of flaws in the car itself ,but mostly ,the dealer network and the dealers themselves.

 

as i have read the many owners posts,i gain more credibility with my earlier post and feel sorry for vw guild for him being what appears to be an honest and serious vw dealer who has been let down by vw mgt. and his dealer peers.

he tries hard to put his best face forward but unfortunately ,and as time goes by and more owners come in ,it will be more difficult to do so.

i do feel bad for him because i think he is a commited dealer .and appears to be a straight shooter.

i will state here that if i lived near his dealership i would not hesitate to get a vw from him.how about that r32.

 

in some posts a few months ago i stated that the vw dresden fty. where the phaeton is built will someday have to be recycled to another make such as audi or other.

well, i think i have read somewhere that vw plans just that.

 

and, a few months ago i drove the new bentley continental for a few days and let me tell you,it is nothing more than a downsized version of the phaeton at twice ,or more the price.cavet emptor.

a beautiful car , great moves ,great driver, but........????????

 

back to the phaeton, i think that if you have the money to throw away in a lease,the deals being offered are good. problem is ,you have to deal with the dealers.

by the way,the mercedes marquee is in the same boat as of lately,as is bmw.but,vw is really down there in the pits. a shame because there was a time when they made a great car.i still have one of their engines .

and the dealers are overly greedy.but most are competent in the mechanical dept. and the fty. does back them up.

 

so,let us hope that some miracle happens ,and vw pulls itself back up from the total mess that they are in now.not only inthe usa but also,and worse,in europe.

paldi

I'm new here and prob haven't read your earlier posts. I agree with you about the dealers. Some a relatively presentable, others a like garages almost. Gear heads from air cooled days. lol The Benz dealer down the street has a lounge, Starbucks coffee, big screen tv on the wall. Lots of money showing and many many big bux cars on the lot and in the showroom.

 

That said, I still like the Phaeton. Mebby because of my DeLoean... I admire cars that were gutsy projects produced by men who wanted to build something great! Hope I can buy one smart! My D is still worth more than I paid for it 20 years after.

ffb13

well paldi,

 

anytime you want to drive a real car come drive my 1955 posrsche 550 spyder with a custom built vw air cooled at 2170 cc's and 175 hp with 160 lbs. torque and all at around 4800 rpm.

car is partly original and partly chuck beck.

it is my daily driver when i am in florida.and have been cross country on it.

0 to 60 about 4.8 and top speed 135 ,but because the bottom is enclosed ,120 is about it or,in a gust it will become airborne.

 

and some other toys that go a little faster .

paldi

Well, my DeLorean won't touch your spyder 0 to 88 mph. After the flux capacitor kicks in, wahoo! Unfortunately for me, The flux isn't fluxing... Merry Christmas!

corral

Good luck to all with their new phaetons. I agree that this car is a lease value. My car is still in the shop. It is now 5 weeks old and still in the shop. I have now had it 37 days and it has beed broken or out of service for over 25 days. The parts need to repair my car are not even in stock in germany and who knows when it will be ready. I am glad for vw's willingness to pay for a rental, they have done their best to accomadate me and I enjoy the infinit fx that they rented me. Still I could have 2 fx's for the msrp of my phaeton. I have 1150 miles on my phaeton of which only 250-300 Are driving miles. The rest are shop miles, transit miles, pre delivery miles, or service manager/ tech miles taking it home. The best part is that the car stalled for the tech when he took it home. I have learned that in the 1200 miles I have put on the rental infiniti is that the japanese sure know how to build a reliable car.

ffb13

on a PREVIOUS post here i stated that after driving all cars out there and not needing another car but wanting a change ,i settled for the most fun ,most reliable ( i hope ) and best handling ,,

i bought the infinity fx35.

 

it feels and handles like a sports car.

peterphaeton

Great deal, would you mind letting me in on the dealer or a contact email?

 

Thanks