Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

prosa

"Freestyle"

Interesting suggestion and an interesting vehicle. It has almost 800 pounds on the Forester, which is good, although the IIHS hasn't yet conducted a side-impact test. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could get a Freestyle within my price range, it probably would come down to what sort of deals the local Ford dealers are making.

redmaxx

Malibu. Gets good gas mileage and got IIHS highest ratings in frontal and side-impact (with curtain airbags) and an acceptable for headrestraints (usually vehicles score Poor or Marginal). Costs much less than 25k.

But the real question is: What does this have to do with inconsiderate drivers?

fintail

Idiot driver/parker

prosa

The Malibu seems like a decent enough car, but it's only ~150 pounds heavier than the Forester. Probably not enough to make a significant difference in terms of safety.

stmss

Getting off topic a bit but here goes, - No side tests, but good performance on frontal tests. A FWD SE with safety package (front/side impact bags, canopy rollover system) may not be far off 25k. Especially if you can find a 05. Check out Freestyle forums here - lots of info. just a suggestion.

yesroh

Was there a dog driving?
We were talking about that earlier...when my dog drives, he likes to get the nose of the car really close to the rear end of the car he's following.

redmaxx

Idiot driver/parker

Methinks it has more to do with the passenger than the story is letting on. If the driver really did put it in Park, then the only way to get it out (short of malfunction, which is another can of worms) is to depress the brake and the shifter button. If the driver didn't really quite make it to park, then the car would have started rolling when the driver let off the brake.

:confuse: :confuse: :confuse:

toomanyfumes

I dunno, it looks like a big old GM wagon, which would shift out of Park without hitting the brake. You would think that rolling into the PT Cruiser at idle wouldn't have enough force to push it off the garage, though.

fintail

Yeah I was thinking the same thing...when was it mandatory to have to use the brake to get out of park? Well into the late 80s at least, IIRC

I have a friend with an 83 Monte/305 that goes about 15mpg at idle, so who knows

bolivar

Or is it an old Ford?

Fords of 20+ years ago had lots of problems about 'seeming' to be in park, when they really weren't pushed all the way up to park. And then nastily dropping into reverse.

manamal

I *love* my forester. Also you can get a base outback wagon (AT, but no leather/sunroof) for about 23500 in the washington DC area (internet price at www.stohlman.subaru.com).
That car has about 500 lbs on the forester, and can be had for nearly the same price right now.

xwesx

That's darn good! If I could get 15 mpg at idle out of my old '69 Econoline I would idle everywhere I go! :P

Seriously, though. A big, heavy car moving at even 5 mph would toss that PT like it was a stray dog. The fact that the wagon did not flip over on its descent leads me to believe that it must have been going 10-15 minimum or it would have dropped straight on its butt and ended up just like the PT. It definitely had some momentum.

Haha... what a crazy event! There was a fella that put his pickup through the front of a busy restaurant a few years back up here when his foot slipped off the brake and onto the gas just as he was parking his truck. Sounds hard to believe, but after 4 months of winter, there can be a fair amount of ice buidup down in the floorboard area and it does get pretty slippery. :sick:

carlisimo

Yesterday I saw a couple of drivers zoom past a pedestrian that was starting to cross at a crosswalk (that didn't have a stop sign or light), right in front of me. Later that day, I saw a pedestrian crossing a 40mph suburban main street, not at a crosswalk, and one driver swerved around them, and the next one stopped because he pretty much had to.

This got me thinking... I'm pretty confused about yielding to pedestrians. In Berkeley (urban area, more pedestrians than cars), you can get ticketed for not yielding to them... and I've had classmates say they were ticketed for not stopping for pedestrians who weren't at a crosswalk. But in other areas (suburbs), I've heard of people getting ticketed for stopping for pedestrians jaywalkers.

It's hard to know what to do at crosswalks, too. If you stop and wave a pedestrian across, the car behind you might be like "what's this guy doing?" and swerve around you... and into the pedestrian. Swerving around a stopped car is common in the residential streets around where I live. So many people stop because they're lost, or they're shouting to get someone's attention... it's gotten to the point where no matter what the law is, other drivers are going to swerve around them. Worse, a lot of crosswalks are only one white strip extending halfway into the road. Others are faded beyond recognition.

So how do we know when to stop for pedestrians and jaywalkers, and when not to?

stickguy

IN NJ, I know that you have to yield to a pedestrian in a designated crosswalk, once they step down into the road. But, I don't think they have ROW if they just walk out into the road at a non-crossing.

snakeweasel

If the driver didn't really quite make it to park, then the car would have started rolling when the driver let off the brake.

Its possible to put the shifter into a position where it puts the transmission in park but doesn't lock it in, in that case it could be knocked into reverse.

snakeweasel

It was a parking garage and they do have inclines to drive up and down on. Many have parking spaces on those inclines. It is possible that the car was parked on an incline and got additional speed by rolling downhill.

210delray

BTW, the station wagon is definitely a GM B-body wagon from the 1977-90 model years. Beyond that, it's hard to tell the exact year, make, and model from the photos. Would be kind of ironic if it was an Olds Custom Cruiser that hit the PT Cruiser!

210delray

Stickguy has it right, at least in most states, as I understand it:

IN NJ, I know that you have to yield to a pedestrian in a designated crosswalk, once they step down into the road. But, I don't think they have ROW if they just walk out into the road at a non-crossing.

They don't have the right of way if jaywalking or crossing at crosswalk against the light. But the onus is still on the driver to stop to avoid hitting them, even if the pedestrian is in the wrong.

redmaxx

This pedestrian issue really burns me. I was almost beat up in a parking lot because some idiot walked out right in front of me, after looking right at me. I swerved and didn't even come close, but he thought I did something wrong.

Around here its the people at Costco that is the worst. They just stream out of the store and from their cars into the store without even looking! :mad: Those are bad enough but I hate it when they try to stare me down. They just keep walking towards me glaring at me. :mad: :mad: Ummm...let's see...who is in the multi-ton vehicle and who has the cart? I wonder who would win that battle?

kdshapiro

"But, I don't think they have ROW if they just walk out into the road at a non-crossing."

That's called jay-walking, a ticketable offense. In NJ, CA and a bunch of other states, it's up to the driver to yield to the pedestrians crossing in a legal manner in a designated zone. I always stop and I've been honked. I've seen people go around cars that stop for pedestrians, and sometimes they are in such a hurry they don't see the cop patiently waiting.

euphonium

He was importantly driving his Jaguar through the crowd crossing the street in the crosswalk failing to yield to the panhandler who took great pleasure in keying the rear quarter panel and then kicking a dent into it. The bum also managed to spit tobacco juice on the deck lid as the car sped away. I gave the rascal money for more snuse.

bottgers

The best thing to do in this situation is to just slow down until the tailgater eventually passes you. Sooner or later he/she will get impatient and will pass. Unless of course you liked my idea of mounting a squirter under your rear bumper to spray tailgaters winshields with vegetable oil.

imidazol97

>vegetable oil.

Used motor oil would be better. Recycling you know. "My motor does seem to leak a little oil--you must have gotten some drops of that blowing up from under the car" would be a good comment if someone complained!

carlisimo

That's a great idea. A few cars back, someone will slide on the oil and spin out, and cause a pile-up that'll keep anyone behind you from catching up and tailgating you!

imidazol97

There's already oil on the roads in many areas from dripping vehicles and trucks.

euphonium

I've noticed that single bikers ride on the oil line and later wonder why they spun out in the rain when trying to suddenly stop from following too close with their headlights on BRIGHT.

nippononly

driving habits suck HARD in this country. Improving everyone's driving skills by 50% would probably reduce traffic congestion as much as adding an extra lane to all the highways...

xwesx

Pedestrians have right of way in a parking lot. While there is a certain level of courtesy that should be observed by those pedestrians (after all, a vehicle would always win in direct contact as was so aptly stated!), just remember that these are the same people that will be on the roadway in a few minutes so don't expect too much from them. Takes the mystery out of why this thread is so popular, doesn't it?!

redmaxx

I give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time but it is the blatant ones that irritate me. Just because they have ROW, doesn't mean they are supposed to take it. If only more people could be taught that.

redmaxx

That's a great idea. A few cars back, someone will slide on the oil and spin out, and cause a pile-up that'll keep anyone behind you from catching up and tailgating you!

Method and apparatus for causing a road-block thereby preventing tailgating. Quick, to the patent office! :surprise:

imidazol97

Do you ever feel sorry that you made a comment? I do now with the oil

Speaking of inconsiderate drivers I made a trip to the border to get lottery tickets this morning and didn't get my bumper ridden once at 60 mph and 56 mph return trip on two-lane interstate. One trucker took a minute to figure out if he could pass on the slight upgrade and as soon as the road leveled he moved on.

No passenger cars tailgated either. Another refreshing trip. (Hopefully I'll be $340 million richer after this evening.)

xwesx

Hopefully I'll be $340 million richer after this evening.

The chances are good..... :P :P :P :P :P

LOL! I was going to put more "emotorcons" on there, but a popup window came up and said, "Ease up on the emotorcons, huh?!!" Hahah.... I love this forum.

redmaxx

That is easy to get around. You can manually write them. They are in the format of:

: icon_name :

So, hover over the icon to get the name, and take out the spaces between the colons!

redmaxx

we need one that looks like a car zooming by for this thread! :shades:

gee35coupe

The pedestrian has to be in the crosswalk. We have a bad problem of people getting hit here in Atlanta. Especially kids. Heck I even collected one on my grill about thirteen years ago. As long as you don't leave the scene, you are OK if some yahoo unsuccessfully tries to jaywalk in front of you.

yesroh

Honda's new cars are designed to minimize injuries if you hit someone (at a slow speed). Has anyone heard about that? I think this might be incorporated into their new Civics...not sure. They might even have a water bottle for them to drink from while waiting for parametics.
I drove Mom into town today. I was in a 40mph zone. I was doing 45. It was like going in reverse. A large truck carrying gravel or something flew by at what I estimated to be close to 60 and the rest weren't going much slower. And these people complain they can't pay for gas. Let 'em die. I just get so sick of all the people complaining and then I see this. And all the zig-zagging was crazy. I was doing 35 in a 30 zone and the cars were piling up on the left lane to get around this 'slow poke'. But every time they'd hit a stoplight and get stuck behind someone stopped in the left lane. I ended up gaining about six car spaces in the course of about two miles. It was funny. What a bunch of hillbillies I live with!
I guess I never took into consideration the illiteracy rate in Southern Indiana. Maybe they can't read. I just wanted to vent a little.

grbeck

The 2006 Civics were designed to meet the standards adopted by the European Community designed to minimize pedestrian injuries, if I recall correctly. Soon all cars sold in Europe will have to meet these standards, which means we'll be seeing changes in VWs, Mercedes, BMWs, Volvos, etc.

smoot

Don'tcha just absolutely LURVE those peeps who wear nothing but black and decide to cross at any point in the road.... at night? Wait! it gets better!....Don'tcha just LURVE it when they see you approaching in your car...headlights shining on them and instead of hurrying to cross illegally, they slow waaayyyy down to super-slow speed as if it's their perogative to have aaaaalll the time in the world while you have to wait until they've crossed, fuming' at their audacity!!!!

Oooh, the bonus is when they're pushing a stroller

Yup, just thought I'd share that gem there.

210delray

Everyone gripes about driver training or lack thereof in the US.

So, how are we supposed to re-train 150 million or so drivers? How much will it cost? And would it even be effective?

After all most people know they shouldn't blow through red lights or stop signs, but they choose to do it anyway. Plus most people already believe they're better than average drivers. We see it right here in Edmunds -- "I'm such a skilled driver that I can go 20 mph over the speed limit."

bottgers

.....know better than to drive the way they drive, but they just don't care. I don't think the biggest problem is with unskilled drivers, it's with inconsiderate drivers. It's like the whole LLC discussion; if people were more considerate they would stay right except to pass, and then do so in a timely manner.

210delray

Exactly. They know how to drive better, but they don't because they're too much in a rush, too distracted (cell phones, etc.), too lazy, too selfish, or plain just don't care, as you've said. So all this talk about training people to handle skids etc. isn't really going to address the crux of the problem.

kevm14

So, how are we supposed to re-train 150 million or so drivers? How much will it cost? And would it even be effective?

I propose to make obtaining a license a FAR more expensive proposition, just like it is in Europe. Some of the extra cost will go towards FAR more comprehensive, strict and rigorous driver training, almost something like mandatory 1-day Skip Barber events (though not exactly that).
The more expensive the driver's test, especially if you have to pay another fee to retake it (assuming the test includes skills learned previously), then the more prospective drivers might just take it a LOT more seriously and even more of a privilege. Imagine that.

"I'm such a skilled driver that I can go 20 mph over the speed limit."

There's more to what you're insinuating than you may (or may not) think. Basically, it boils down to the fact that there is some percentage of people who say they're qualified ARE NOT (or otherwise skilled the way they say), and some percentage IS. But what are the percentages? Dunno. I will say that someone who partakes in high speed driving on a regular basis will tend to have developed quicker reflexes, will be better at observing his surroundings (and doing it much faster) and will be better at maintaining control of his vehicle. Notice I said tend as this "rule" certainly does not ALWAYS apply...the people who are driving fast and not paying attention are obviously #1 exceptions.

Not that I want to start a huge debate on this, but I think it boils down to the fact that there's nothing inherently dangerous about driving fast. Safety is in the details, and most of it is the driver's (and car's) responsibility.

210delray

My point is that such extensive and expensive training and licensing would have little if no effect on crash rates in the US. It might weed out only the truly clueless or incompetent.

I contend people can be taught how to drive safely, but you can't make them do it. If anybody can solve this conundrum, that person deserves a medal!

At any rate, it ain't gonna happen, so there's little point in continuing the argument.

What does work and what the states have been willing to implement is graduated licensing for young/beginning drivers.

As for the comment about going 20 mph over the speed limit, I was just trying to illustrate the point that when the question is asked in a poll, invariably most drivers report their own driving skills to be better than average. Obviously, this is false on its face.

kevm14

I contend people can be taught how to drive safely, but you can't make them do it.

But I think what I proposed would slowly shift people into a more European driving mindset. If everyone found out via first person experience or someone they know that the test was "really hard and I failed, so you better pay attention at driving school" then maybe something would click. In what I'm proposing, something would HAVE to click. And once people have a more thorough understanding of vehicle dynamics and advance vehicle control concepts (as well as the steep price of entry), their attitudes just might change. I can't guarantee it, but I think it's very possible.
The harder thing to do would be to make current drivers re-certify under the new rules. There would be big debates about cost and necessity. And poor people who have based their financial standing on cheapish transportation would be outraged. But perhaps some of the money could go towards public transportation.

tpe

I think you're missing his point. The problems we have on our roads are more a result of poor judgement and inattentiveness, not lack of driving skills or knowledge of the rules of the road. Chances are if you are driving your car in a way that actually requires any kind of advanced driving skills you aren't exercising good judgement. If Skip Barber can effectively teach good judgement we need to apply his methods to other areas of society. At that point he not only deserves a medal, as another poster said, it should be the Nobel Prize.

bottgers

I'll take your comment one step further. I think the problems on our roads are caused by inconsiderate drivers. As far as they're concerned, they're the only driver on the road and to he11 with everyone else. I see it all the time and seeing courtious drivers is more and more becoming a thing of the past.

tpe

I'll go along with that observation. Some of the posts have mentioned how we have become complacent about using turn signals. There's another side to that and maybe one of the reasons turn signals aren't used as often. A lot of drivers have become adament about not letting anyone in front of them. When these drivers see that someone has indicated they are trying to get into their lane they instinctively close whatever gap might exist. After a while the drivers that use their signals realize that it is counterproductive to them accomplishing their objective. Anyway, that goes right along with your comment regarding lack of consideration.

I actually think that this LLC situation will improve over the next few years through a campaign of awareness. Up until recently it is something that just wasn't emphasized enough. There will still be those that stay in the LL not because they are unaware but because they have appointed themselves as the upholders of the speed limit. What can you do?

bottgers

....an unsafe aggressive driver yourself, nothing.

kevm14

The problems we have on our roads are more a result of poor judgement and inattentiveness, not lack of driving skills or knowledge of the rules of the road

But I believe with a european-inspired mindset and overall respect AND understanding of the car, some of that poor judgement and inattentiveness would just go away.

210delray

Attitude will always trump knowledge and skill, I'm afraid. Sure you can bone up to pass a stricter test, but what happens AFTER the test when there's no state trooper riding shotgun?

And where does this "European-inspired mindset" exist? Don't they drive like crazies over there, except in Germany and possibly England?