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Long ago I was cured of any interest in a motorcycle when I saw a high school aged kid lying on the highway on a curve where he'd gone over the handlebars of his bike cutting his upper leg. He was lying there with a stream of blood from the upper lane to the bottom edge of the road. A car didn't see him and made a left turn in front of him into a discount store. This was before some states required headlights and suggest helmets.
I would be so nervous trying to be defensive if I rode a motorcycle, I couldn't enjoy the ride.
I'm not sure I can fault the car drivers in some cases. Albeit they are responsible for being aware of bicyclists and motorcycles, there are so few of each in most areas that car drivers just don't expect to see them. I'm not sure if Ohio requires headlights on cycles or not, but it seems to me some don't have them. On the other hand some have bright lights that are offensive or that flash on and off twice per second. I consider them the ultimate inconsiderate driver.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Over the summer we had one of our drivers nearly killed on a cycle she had just purchased. Nearly lost a foot.
I was witness to a fatal m/c accident one day when an elderly man made a left in front of a young guy on a cycle. He was married just one week when he died.
Another driver at our school went out over the summer and got his m/c licence for the first time...he's 72!
I think I'll stay on 4 wheels thank you.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's pretty much what it comes down to me. I would need to move to a less densely populated area, or ride in residential areas on Sunday afternoons.
When I see the obliviousness of the average driver, I can see why some motorcycle riders choose annoyingly bright or flashing headlights.
The group, Angry Neighbors With Paintball Guns, posted signs at strategic locations throughout the city, warning motorists to slow down or risk being shot at with a paintball gun."
'Angry Neighbors With Paintball Guns' amazed at reaction (WRAL)
Wow. One shot toward me and my car would involve a call to police and my attorney if the police didn't wish to press charges against them!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Then there is the Potato gun that can really put a dent in the door.
Gee, ya think?
I have a friend with a paintball gun, and he's offered to shoot at the speeders who go past my house, since he's heard me gripe about them on occasion. I told him do what you want, just not in front of MY house! Go a couple doors down to that property that was bought by a church, and do it from there. :shades:
Plus, I just look at it from my own point of view. Considering that I almost put my then-new Intrepid in the backyard of some kids who got me in the eye with a laser pointer (and then got their address and called the cops on them), and I chased a couple county employees in their work truck down a bike path in my '79 5th Ave when they cut me off and I almost t-boned them, and then they got stupid about it, I got a feeling I'd really go off if someone actually hit my car with something...paintball shot or otherwise.
I rarely never initiate anything...at least, not intentionally. But I have a bad habit sometimes of escalating things. And the anger management class just pissed me off more! :P (just kidding on that one...I'm not THAT bad!)
Were they coming from a town hall meeting?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Knew the area well and that a phone booth (no cell phones yet) was couple blocks away. Stopped, called police, he arrived quickly and we went back to house where boy was standing. He and we went into yard area behind house and boy was there with long bb gun. Police officer nabbed boy, got his mother and then started giving talk. Don't recall if we were asked whether or not to press charges. We left and police officer was still on scene.
Shooting at cars, vehicles, whether bbs, bullits or paintballs deserves jail time.
Kansas Enacts "Right Lane Law" To Keep Slow Traffic Out of the Fast Lane (Straightline)
We have too many people that think that they can use the left lane as long as they are going the speed limit. And others who don't even care about keeping up their speed. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We had a neighborhood where every so often someone would shoot out a school bus window. Some of those pellet guns are powerful. As I recall they did catch some kid.
Another time one of our drivers was driving along the river and a bullet shattered the window next to her head. It lodged in the metal of the bus so it was a real bullet. They never found the person. It might have been a stray bullet from a hunter or target shooter but the driver swore that they were gunning for her.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In WA, it is "pass where you can, when you can".
really means keep the Left lane free for maniacs which encourages breaking the speed law enabling the WSP to tag the idiots.
When the "other guy" is driving the speed limit in the Left lane, what is there about him that prevents you from breaking the speed law? Is it that you are being denied your self importance and anarchist desire? Or have you the opinion that the DOT, loaded with graduate civil engineers, are of lesser intelligence than you?
The speed limit signs trump all other road advisory signs. LLC may provoke road rage, but it is the other driver's stupid decision to commit the rage. Just submit to the speed limit regardless of how good of a driver you think you are.
The driver in front of me, often labeled as a LLC, doing the speed limit, is exercising his position on the freeway that he helped pay for with his taxes.
LLC'ing is most evident on I-5 and for good and valid reasons including the high volume of truck traffic breaking up the outside lane resulting in an uncomfortable road compared to the inside lane which the LLC also helped to pay via taxes.
Frequent on ramps from other roads encourage LLC which allows others to merge more safely.
Mind the speed limit. (in any lane)
When you try to incite road rage, the guilt rests at least as much on you. Answer for the messes you make, something the silent generation and those who came before do just as poorly as anyone else.
" Is it that you are being denied your self importance and anarchist desire"
Are you not expressing insolent self-importance by trying to play traffic deputy by camping out against the flow of traffic?
" Or have you the opinion that the DOT, loaded with graduate civil engineers, are of lesser intelligence than you?"
Are you able to provide any concrete evidence that limits are set by these "civil engineers", and that their decisions are both relevant and defendable, not based on revenues and typical American backwardness? Why is the public sector never called out to prove itself?
"The speed limit signs trump all other road advisory signs"
Based on your formal legal training, or?
I simply commented about life here (and I'm sure other parts of the country) in relation to the new Kansas law. For the record, I never drive more than 5 miles over the SL. I travel across the state frequently and always drive 70 in eastern Washington (sometimes less) on I-90 (that's the SL for most of it).
I believe it is very inconsiderate to drive in the left lane all the time. Traffic around here (and it sounds worse in other parts of the country) goes faster than the SL. It is not my job to enforce the SL by being passive aggressive and camping in the left lane. I may shake my head at those who drive fast but I sure as heck am not going to hold them up.
The speed limit signs trump all other road advisory signs.
You've made that statement before and I've corrected you. In Washington, that is not the case. The speed limit sign does NOT trump other signs. In fact, it is just the opposite.
Poking along in the left lane? Prepare to pay
To quote the news report:
Leary reminded Bonifcho that drivers need to stay in the right lanes unless they're passing another vehicle.
Everyone pulled over during Leary's patrol said they thought it wasn't a problem as long as they were going the speed limit. But the law says otherwise.
Here's the law: RCW 46.61.100
I'll bet if we were to meet on I-5, you'd be passing me.
The yellow "advisory" signs (like, "Slow Curve 45") aren't enforceable in most juristictions. City of Pleasanton CA (pdf file)
(like it was always ok to play dead in the middle of a roadway)
So if you are on a 55 mpg highway, and the yellow curve ahead sign says 45mpg, you can still legally go 55 though it. Per my link and in most jurisdictions anyway.
LA's version
MN's version
I suppose you could get cited for driving too fast for conditions, but that's a bit different.
MI's version - "Advisory speeds are not enforceable in Michigan courts except under the Basic Speed Law provisions and are posted only in combination with the appropriate warning sign."
If DOT Washington puts up a black and white Keep Right sign, then I think camping out in the left lane will get you a ticket that you can't beat.
Speed limit signs don't trump anything...they aren't even enforced strictly or consistently. If LEOs only give them value when they have to, it's hard to see why anyone else should do different.
That is true. I've always felt those signs were waaay conservative. They do help give you some sense of the impending curve, however. It's all relative.
I don't understand why an enforceable speed limit law has to trump anything? You speed, you can get cited. If you speed and are DUI, you get two citations. The DUI violation doesn't make the speeding citation go away.
If a cop cites you for going faster than the advisory speed, then the "black and white" speed limit gets you off, until the cop shows that you were driving too fast for conditions.
If you ever drive a freeway in Southern California in the rain and do the speed limit, you'll likely get pulled over and told to slow down, especially if you have out of state plates. All that fresh oil and rain gets way slippery down there.
Back to the thread, does WA have black and white Keep Right signs? If not, they need to put some up. :shades:
I've seen a few of those over the years, but don't remember where. For a while the interstate heading east out of Boise had a 10 mile stretch of Keep Left signs. The right lane was badly rutted and they only wanted people to use it for passing.
1. because they CAN'T (go faster)
2. because they can (go slower) (because they chose to or don't want to go up to 70 mph)
YES, and they have been up for at least 55 years that I know of. It is just they have been IGNORED for so long, that they are literally hidden in plain sight.
To answer your questions directly say 35 mph in a 70 mph zone:
1. because they CAN'T (go faster)
2. because they can (go slower) (because they chose to or don't want to go up to 70
I would add ,
3. There are many drivers that are afraid to drive, but out of necessity they drive. I suggest if you see a person driving with the old "death grip" coupled with 25 in a 550 zone you have spotted a driver that is fearful and/or don't understand/know how to drive.
That was we had on I 5 coming up from Mojave last Jan. an older man driving 35 mph in a 70 mph zone fo almost 1/2 of the trip back to Concord.
We stopped at several rest stops adjacent to I 5, got back on I 5, and found ourselves behind this gentleman.
Good luck to all and enjoy the wonderful weather in Ca or else where.
jensad
Exactly. And that's what I meant about it being all relative. I know that I can easily go 10 mph over those yellow signs and not even feel it. I've relied on them whenever I'm in a place I haven't been before, especially at night.
As many have pointed out, if there is rain, snow, or ice... that's a different story.
So KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PAST or SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT makes all the sense in the world. Indeed it is the LAW, albeit seldom enforced. If you care to answer and don't mind waxing back to the "days", how many tickets did you write for failure to keep right....etc etc.
I also find it VERY hard to believe that the majority, if not ALL folks following this thread have NEVER had the treat of getting behind a fully loaded 1.2.3. tractor/ trailer rigs in the so called #1 or passing lane, in the act of passing another fully loaded 1,2,3, trailer rigs going 34 MPH pedal to the metal in the #2 lane and the passing trucking pedal to the metal going 34.15 mph to pass ( the tractor trailer rigs in the #2 or slow lane) !!!! So if this logic does not "MOVE" one, one might be intentionally clueless or belligerent. (in a passive/aggressive kind of way)
*sigh* It all passes soon enough, but I usually find myself unreasonably frustrated by it at the time.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Interesting, where is this 550 zone located? Is everyone locked into the right lane since no one can come anywhere near the speed limit?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In urban areas during rush hours, the alternate reality is there are too many vehicles for the road space provided. Sometimes, you just gotta kick back, turn up the radio, and go with the flow.
Cheers!
Paul
My view of the left lane is probably a little skewed, but it works for me and I have rarely run into problems with it. Yes, keep right. When possible. Go with the flow of traffic ALWAYS. If the SL is 65, but traffic is going 70, then go 70. You are more of a problem trying to go 65 if the flow of traffic is going 70. If you don't want to go 70, then stay in the right lane and go with the flow of traffic in that lane, whatever it may be.
Here is what happens on the stretch of freeway I frequently travel on. It is I-5 in southern Oregon for those you interested. There are two limits in this area. One set at 55 for trucks and anything pulling a trailer. The other limit is 65 (in most areas). Frequently what happens is the trucks will do right about 55, sometimes as much as 60, but they generally stay at 55. As such, they will usually stay in the right lane. Regular traffic however generally travels around 70, sometimes as much as 75, sometimes right at 65 if traffic is heavy enough. The average traffic load is such that there is always a good amount of traffic in the right lane that is going right at 55. If one wanted to even maintain just the 65 SL that is posted, he would find himself constantly moving from lane to lane. He would pass a group of trucks, move over only to have to move back over a couple minutes later to pass again.
So here is what I practice and it has worked well for me. The flow of traffic generally flows at 70 MPH in the left lane. The right lane flows at about 55. I tend to stay in the left lane, maintaining a good several second space between me and the car in front (if there is a car in front.) I also watch my mirrors to make sure that no one is zooming up behind me. When I notice a car coming up behind me that I can tell for sure is going to want to get past, I move over as soon as it is possible. I won't squeeze between to two vehicles (especially trucks) in the right lane going slower than I am and cut into my safety zone, nor will I cut off a big rig, but will give a good clearance before I move over. I do move over though as soon as I can safely do so. I will also increase my speed by 1-2 mph to complete my "pass" a little faster, unless a car in front of me prevents me from doing so. If a car is in front of me and doing the same speed that I am, I can only go as fast as he is going.
This seems to work well. Since I maintain the flow of traffic, whether it be 65, 70 or sometimes even 75 (there have been times when there will be a string of several cars going 75 MPH in the left lane, while the right lane is going much slower), I feel that staying in the left lane is okay, especially when you are in a group of cars that is always going faster than those in the lane next to you. If you always had several cars jumping in and out of the right lane, it would create more of a potential for something disasterous to happen rather than just staying in one lane.
Now if I am the only in in the left lane passing cars in the right lane, then I do move over once I get past a group of cars and there isn't another group of cars for some distance or so... (does this all make sense??????)