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Comments
But unlike the Freestyle, my looks are well, uh, umm, distinctive.
The Freestyle is free-of-style.
Accord and Camry are inoffensive but contemporary. They can get away with that because of their sheer excellence, The Ford simply;y does not have that cred.
The Freestyle would have looked fresh and contemporary 10-15 years ago.
I am agreeing with you, it's a promising car but Ford played it like a sports team who goes in uptight because they HAVE to win and are Praying not to lose. That never works.
Look what Ford had done to this poor vehicle. First they saddled it with invisible non-styling, no marketing at all then fed the rumors of it's cancellation and a Mercury replacement. Then they said never mind and wisely are going to restyle it (actually style it for the first time) as soon as they possibly can.
It deserves to sell despite their best efforts.
But on your styling concerns..
It's difficult (if not impossible) to make a tall wagon look like a Maserati and still maintain it's usefulness and practicality. Case in point would be today's Pacifica. Looks great yes, but... in contrast to the Freestyle, it's cramped inside, it doesn't have a useable third-row, has zero storage behind that third-row, and is generally considered to be overweight and consequently a bit of a gas hog.
But if looks are all that matters...
On a side bar note, there was also a Freestyle on display at the show that was modified a little. I was so busy talking to the designer that I didn't take too close of a look, but I did notice that they put on bigger tires (255/55/18) and made it look a lot sportier. Reading all the comments about tire size I respectfully recognize that drivers who live in extreme winter conditions ( I live in sunny southern California) would not like these bigger tires, but this sportier Freestyle looked GREAT! I asked the designer about the possibility of a "Sport" version and he said his V. P. came to the exhibit and saw the car. We both agreed that with a few modifications the Freestyle could look WAY better.
I think most of us bought our Freestyles because we recognize function and value as primary criteria in our decision making. Unfortunately, many other car buyers don't consider these priorities as important as self image based on outer aesthetics. Don't get me wrong. I would not buy an ugly car, but as a first step I think the Freestyle is on the right track and has it's priorities in order.
But if looks are all that matters..."
That explains why clearly inferior products from Chrysler and Buick,that look better, are selling better.
The Free-of-style has plain slab sides, tires that are too small, 1986 Taurus headlights, an oddly shaped grille that doesn't seem to fit the opening and completely bland taillights.
Fine, it's a functional box, it doesn't not need to be so anonymously sterile that it looks 10 years old at introduction.
That's why in the span of one year, Ford was going to kill it, hand if off to Mercury and now are revising is at fast as they can.
You either play to win, or you play scared and guarantee your own defeat.
Yes, that's true. I wouldn't believe the data collected by CR on them either.
Actually no, they're not. So far in 2006, the Freestyle is handily outselling both the Pacifica and the Rendezvous. (And Buick is practically giving away the Rendezvous.)
"1986 Taurus headlights"
Ouch... that really hurt. I think you exaggerate a bit though.
Tell me about her.
"Well, she, uh...has a good personality."
And?
"She's really hard working"
Ok...
"And she had a lot of good traits."
Is there something you're not telling me?
"Well, she is kind of slow but is should be very faithful."
Anything else?
"Her good qualities are not apparant on first glance."
So in other words, I won't want to be seen in public with her.
"Yes, but she sounds just like your Freestyle."
"Car was running parked for about 15-20 min in summer with air on, went into reverse and it died. I restarted engine and prceeded to drive off. When I went to get on high way I had no acceleration and the dash read "Engine in failsafe mode" I stopped shut it off and restarted and it was fine."
The only "failsafe mode" I've ever heard of is in the Ford Ranger, which will shut down 3 cylinders if the water pump fails, and use the other three cylinders to propel the truck. That was the German 4.0l engine. I wasn't aware that the Duratec 3.0 had this feature, and the owners manual makes no mention of it. Interesting.
When we got back downstairs, I realized that the gold vehicle was a late model Explorer.
Styling is a personal thing. I am glad that the Freestyle has some elegance, and doesn't look like a "Hot Wheels" truck like some new SUV/CUV's do. Others need that "contemporary" design. If you don't like the styling of the Freestyle, and that is your main criteria, don't buy it. No one made people buy the Pontiac Aztek.
Personally, the best way to deal with the Freestyle styling (if it bugs you) is to photograph your Freebie, launch Photoshop, and modify it to your liking - then post the images here, maybe even send them to Ford. :shades:
The way I personally dealt with it, is by not buying one.
As the sales figures and the free-of-style's sales figures and near-death experience indicate, many people did the same.
I don't need to show my pictures to Ford, they already know the FS is in need of a urgent makeover and is working on it as fast as they can.
A "great personality" combined with "big bones" will only take you so far...
Before we needed a new car, I saw a silvery blue Pacifica the first year they were out. It was loaded, and took my breath away. I saw a white Pacifica last month and thought it was some sort of deformed minivan at first.
I saw Honda Elements around for awhile and thought they were bizarrely ugly. Then I saw a lime green one and it just wowed me. What a fun look!
It's just funny how color can change your own perception of a car's looks. White makes some cars look stunning, while on others it makes you start thinking about making s'mores. Black can become utterly generic or glitzy.
Everyone around here was buying the tan Lexus RX300's like crazy. They looked glitzy a few years ago, now they are seeming akin to the old faux wood paneled wagons of my childhood.
Well, anyhow, I don't generally ride alongside the FS, I ride inside it
Knowing how safe I am in this CUV that has a 5 star rating without side airbags makes me feel extremely at ease after having been in an accident last year that I am still recovering from physically.
Ugly or not, I don't care at all what anyone thinks, I love it. It's a beautiful car to live in
The Free-from-style is not ugly.
It is unattractive.
That word means there is an absence of attractiveness. As in bland, plain or completely invisible to to its anonymous design. If it was introduced 10-15 years ago it would have fit right in. It's design reminds me of one of those "anonymobiles" from an insurance company commercial.
Ford played this (and the 500) like a really "tight" team plays a game.
They didn't play to win, they played hoping and praying not to lose. That team usually loses to the relaxed team that is playing to have fun.
And Ford admit they did this and shot themselves in the foot.
My posts are in response to a request for theories as to why a vehicle this good has been a marketplace failure.-
What is your theory?
We all know Ford builds vehicles unchanged way too long and milks every bit of life out of them before revising them.
I'm not debating that it is a vehicle with a "great personality"
I am answering the question that was asked. Can you?
How do you explain in only one year, Freestyle was introduced, cancelled, handed-off to Mercury, taken back from Mercury and is now being redesigned as fast as Ford can pull it off?
Oh, the Aztek is truly ugly, in any dictionary. Our Freestyle looks like Cindy Crawford next an Aztek.
Anyway, I think the Freestyle is sharp looking. Its in the eye of the beholder.
Since it never happened I know you can't point out one instance where I criticized any owners as you claim nor did I "trash" the car.
As each of my posts mentioned, I think it's a very promising vehicle.
How Ford has handled it summarized why their company and the American auto industry is in such a mess.
They rushed it to market with a weak, unrefined engine to accomodate their odd transmission choice, a body devoid of styling and then did their best to hide it from the public so they could focus on selling 14 mpg Explorers.
I'd be interested in buying one if it had a non-industrial powerplant, a transmission that will not soon be remembered as an orphaned oddity and "styling" that does not look 15 years old.
I was hopeful when it was going to be given to Mercury but am glad Ford is now licking it's wounds.
Rather than surrender, they are going to give it another try, and after only one year, they plan to address everyone of my concerns.
Style, engine and transmission.
I guess I wasn't alone in my opinions.
Many thanks for this great website that helped us with our purchase.
Part of Ford's cost cutting is a reduction in overtime. They are going to cut back on 2nd and 3rd shifts and limit vehicle production to one plant- even if it causes production delays or limits production volume of popular vehicles.
8 weeks for a production slot isn't too bad.
You know, there's actually an ADVANTAGE to this. As in reduction of thefts.
Also, just compare the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX330. Surely we'd all agree that the Lexus is more stylish, less bland, etc, right?
Yet the Toyota is much more functional because of all the extra room its "blandess" allows.
Frankly, I think that most people who would want a Freestyle aren't the sort who would care too much about "style" in a vehicle.
One of the best things about the Freestyle is the CVT, IMO.
If I could use a metaphor, movie critics may pick apart a movie based on some academic criteria or personal agenda, but their views don't reflect that of the marketplace which pays to see the movie. Marketing failure is not the same as marketplace failure. Further, it is easy to forget that vehicle design needs to appeal to both male and female tastes. Women are a major vehicle purchase influence.
So, all of this discussion made me think of other CUVs and how their looks compared. If the Freestyle is not your cup of tea, don't buy it. Here is a list of purported CUVs. Is there a beauty in the bunch? Is beauty only skin deep? Do they seem designed by one person, or three different people with different visions. Engineering or image? You be the judge. I would say the Freestyle borrows many styling cues from the Lexus RX330 - the good ones that is. :shades:
**************************
CUV Model(s)
Acura MDX and Honda Pilot
BMW X3
BMW X5
Buick Rendezvous/Pontiac Aztek
Cadillac SRX
Chevrolet Equinox/Pontiac Torrent
Chrysler Pacifica
Dodge Caliber
Ford Edge
Ford Freestyle
Ford Territory
Honda CR-V and Honda Element
Hyundai Tucson/Kia Sportage
Hyundai Santa Fe
Infiniti FX
Lexus RX330
Mitsubishi Endeavor?
Mitsubishi Outlander
Nissan Murano
Porsche Cayenne
Subaru Forester
Toyota RAV4
Volkswagen Tuoareg
Volvo XC90
"Marketing failure is not the same as marketplace failure."
Sadly, Ford had both here. They failed to sell it and as a result of that and it's blandness it's running at about one-half of it's projected volume.
Next year Ford will have Edge, Escape, new and improved Freestyle, Explorer and the Expedition in regular and XL.
I think they might have the segment saturated.
The Lexus RX300, and later the 330 defined the CUV segment.
Most of us at this Forum ARE the "marketplace". Whether you view us as failures is a personal thing. I have not heard anything that those of us doing our Freestyle research prior to purchase were not aware of. If you can offer us ideas on how to get the most out of our Freestyles, your words will be the most use to this "marketplace". Time to move on :shades:
I assume you mean the 3.0 Duratec, not the 3.5
http://www.autofieldguide.com/driven/0605dri18.html
:shades:
********************************
The 3.0-liter Duratec engine has seen a host of improvements, so much so that it has earned a new name, the Duratec 30, starting with this vehicle program.
For example, the engine uses new 5W20 oil - which is an upgrade from ILSAC GF-3 to GF-4. The new GF-4 oil provides fuel economy as well as emissions and durability benefits. It has 20 percent less phosphorous and lower sulfur, which reduces contamination of catalyst and emission system components. It flows better at low temperatures, maintains its integrity under high load and temperature and helps keep piston rings clean.
The International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee began rating oils with GF-1 in 1993.
Among other improvements are:
* Electronic throttle body, heated for cold-weather performance
* Self-adjusting accessory drive belt rated for 150,000 miles
* Improved heat treatment on cylinder heads and improved head gaskets
* Upgraded sealing systems and gaskets rated for up to 15 years of service
* Re-designed pistons
* Improved cooling around the intake and exhaust valves
* Double heat-treated valve springs for durability
* New oil pan design with front sump for reduced oil aeration
* Integrated intake air fuel module for ease of assembly, with tuned intake runners for low noise
It'd have been nice if that'd made it variable-valve-timing for the Freestyle/500, though.
I actually tend to agree that the Freestyle is too plain. I think redoing the front and back would do wonders for it. I was interested in why you thought the Aztek could not find its niche when the Xb has the same ugly rep with most of the car buyers. It has found a market.
I think the Camry and Freestyle actually are very similar, but the car buying public just seems to either ignore the Camry's nondescript look or actually like it. I think if Toyota put its badge on the Freestyle it would catch much less flack and probably would outsell the Highlander. I think the Xb would have been a major bust if it had come out under any of the Big 3 banners. Considered ugly by most and slow by all, I don't think it would have ever made it to a 2nd year of production. I actually think it is so boxy and strange that I kind of like it. Although when I point it out to any of my family and friends as a good utility econobox, they can only laugh at it, and ask me to please not buy one.
I think the Freestyle is a refresh away from much bigger sales. Also, I first thought the 500 was plain, but now I rather like its look, but maybe I am just getting old.
The improvements mentioned in post #5874 were done ~2004 to the Duratec 30 engine best of my knowledge.
One more bit of trivia about the Duratec 30: "While Ford has reaped the Duratec's benefit, it was not an original design. The primary input for the design of this engine was Porsche, which was already developing the configuration for other purposes. Porsche sold the engineering to Ford and Cosworth, the dominant force behind the cylinder head design. There is actually a 6.0L V-12 Duratec configuration used in the Aston Martin, which is custom built for each vehicle by Cosworth in England."
:shades:
Yes, I've never understood the people who DON'T think the CVT is the greatest thing. No shifting is a good thing.
The concern about the 3.5L (in the Edge and later Freestyles) is that it has too many things new about it to be bug-free at first. The current Duratec 3.0L, a descendant of the Ford Contour's 2.5L, has years of refinements and gets great gas mileage as well. I get 25 mpg in 70% highway driving, which is very good in a vehicle this size, although the CVT gets some of the credit.
Wish we had Mazda's MZI Duratec version, which adds variable valve timing, as does Jaguar's AJ30. They are both versions of our Freestyle's Duratec. This is truly a "world" engine. Porsche and the U.K.'s Cosworth engineered most of it, with Ford picking up some work. Then Aston Martin makes a V-12 out of the design, and Yamaha makes a V-8 (Taurus SHO) out of it. This Duratec V6 gets around!!
"Whether you view us as failures is a personal thing."
That is sad in many ways.
We're talking station wagons, no one said a single word about you.
But this put a smile on my face:
"the Freestyle borrows many styling cues from the Lexus RX330 - the good ones that is..."
I'm sorry if the truth hurts and you take it personally.
The Free-of-style is a marketplace failure.
It's selling at about one-half it's projected volume, and had a date with the executioner months after it's introduction.
Luckily, Ford is not so thin-skinned. Instead, they are actually going to style it this time and will address the weak engine.
The question asked was "why aren't they selling?"
It's simple, Poor marketing and a product too bland and invisible to sell itself;
Ford knows it and will address both.
What's your answer?