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D.V. is on the table when the damage is considerable.
Where do you draw the line between "That's life, suck it up" and major replacement of parts and paint?
As your Porsche lost its virginity, our VP would say "So?"
Insurance companies are not there to support the love affair you have with your car.
Let it go would be my advice on this one.
This PRESUMES of course that following:
a. That the car is satisfactorily repaired and shows no evidence of repair.
b. That proper OEM parts are used
You forgot an oil change. :P
Drive manual!!!! :P
www.prine.net/farmers.htm
Many thanks.
Otherwise, you'll have to sue them and that of course gets very expensive.
Insurance law is written against the consumer. If you are seeking fair market value, that's one thing, go for it. If you are seeking "justice", that's pretty hopeless under the current system.
It comes down to whether or not this is the hill you wish to die on, or whether you can cut your best deal and move on.
If they gave you $10K, you could buy yourself a very tasty 300CE---not YOURS, regrettably, but something similar I think.
SEE HERE:
'93 Benz 300CE for sale
So my advice would be play tough but be realistic in your numbers. The cards are stacked against you anyway, so arbitration might be your only hope. Maybe some appraiser will value it at $15,000, who knows? then the "split" down the middle gets better for you. It's a game, really. The insurance company doesn't CARE if you win or if they lose. It's all about bottom line at the end of the year.
Under the present insurance laws, the victim is usually punished.
Items of maintenance do not add to a vehicle's value, they are maintenance not improvements.
It is speculation that someday your M/B will be a classic, but you were not t boned in the some day future. The car was damaged before it achieved any superficial status such as collector's car.
You are responsible for the storage fees because it is your car and the storage facility can file a mechanics lien on the owner of the vehicle, not anyone else.
Because I have a collectible car with collectors plate, you have my empathy, but not much sympathy due to your "know it all" attitude in your communications with farmers. (You lost control of the claim when you insisted on not using the telephone.) That you are an Insurance Broker could mean you are not a Casualty Broker, but just a Life & Health agent.
Were I to arbitrate your claim, you'd get exactly what the farmers offer. Asking for $99 a day because you drove an old luxury car is unfair, because it is an expense you did not actually endure.
Finally, farmers is looking at your car objectively. No insurance company is out to screw you over, nor are they out there to support your love affair you have with your ride. What does your husband say about the problem?
The legal obligation of the insurance company is to compensate you fairly for the fair market value of your car, period, as it sat 10 seconds before the accident. Injuries are a separate matter and handled in another type of claim--and settled separately as well.
As for the storage, future collectibility, etc., that's all going to be thrown out, if you read your insurance policy as you agreed to it.
It's all about market value as determined by the supply and demand equation. How many 300CEs are out there and how many people want them, and there's your market price in a nutshell. They buyers ultimately determine market value, not you, not the insurance company. What the owners and insurance companies do is *research* that market, and, as is human nature, try to tilt things each their own way.
About 15 years ago I had the experience of getting t-boned and having the car totaled. The other driver's insurance made an offer and I said (nicely) I'd just done $1,500 of work on it committing myslef to hand on to this thing for a couple more years. They upped the offer. No, I didn't get everything I wanted but I did better than the initial offer.
I can't say whether that would work with Farmer's but I can say with some confidence that in this case it's too late to try that tactic.
I never thought I was entitled to any more in a rental than something that would provide transportation equivalent to what I was driving. If they hit my van I'd expect a van as a rental because I'd need the seats. I have found insurance to be pretty accommodating in that respect.
How you equate that with a 16 year old car I don't know.
Refusing to chat on the phone is actually best. Everything is in writing. On the phone it's simply "he said, she said". Ask a lawyer friend what s/he thinks about that decision of mine.
Also, do some research on the car itself. That entire model line is in demand. Not classic status just yet, but well on it's way. People like that model and it will increase in value. Far more than that 1972 Pinto sitting in front of your house.
And while I appreciate your offer to arbitrate I'd have to pass due to your comment "no insurance company is out to screw you over". May your Higher Power see to it that you never find yourself in my place.
Finally, I've no husband. Nor wife. I prefer the company of my cars. When I get PO'd at one of them, I can sell it.
Now does anyone have something helpful to say or must I endure more of this?
"the victim is usually punished" Oh so true. But darn it, I just can't understand why. I guess there's so much insurance fraud that we all have to suffer for it. I know my demand was stupid. But I'd settle for just having my car back in the same shape it was before that dumb lady ran the red light. I fail to see why that is, in Farmers eyes, unfair. The car can be repaired. Their insured is an idiot. But yet Farmers considers me the bad guy. How dare I drive thru a green light!
Now that I've yelled "I'm the victim" loud enough, I'd still love to hear of any sort of success anyone has had against ANY insurance company.
"It seemed Farmers was civil and was not getting that courtesy in return." I should mention that the email messages started 21 days AFTER the accident and by then I was talking to the sixth person at Farmers. At that point I wasn't feeling particularly warm & fuzzy. Nor did I suspect that Farmers wanted to be my BFF. Their adjuster had no option but to be civil. After all, she's in a dead end job, probably making minimum wage and hates it. Every day she has to get up, go to the office and annoy people. Eventually one turns into something much like a Stepford Wife.
On the rental thing my position was just like yours. I should have a car that offers a level of refinement and luxury similar to what I was driving. A Pontiac G6 just wasn't gonna do. But I guess I should be happy that California mandates a $25 per day reimbursement for "inconvenience". Now if they'd just allow a fee for "annoyance". Heck, at this point I'd be rich.
Your car is not a classic and probably never will be. If a 1970s coupe struggles to be a collectible of even marginal value, I can't see how a 90s coupe is going to be a classic in our lifetime. Trust me on this one. It's just a nice, lovely, old used car.
So I see no reason for you to refuse $10,000 as a settlement. The advert I posted for $10K asking price on a 300CE--that was a lovely low mileage car. Why wouldn't that satisfy you?
As for "totaling" it, the insurance company is, as you know, probably obligated by law to do that, as the damage has exceeded the percentage of value that triggers the "total" rule.
I think you've been given any number of rational solutions to your problem and you should pick one and get moving. The longer you delay, the more of a mess you will create for your ultimate solution, IMO.
It's a drag that you lose your car to a reckless driver, but again, the insurance system is not about "justice on earth", it's about playing a game and maneuvering to best advantage. You've got some decent options, so use 'em.
That's my two cents. If you can't let go of this "classic" business, then I can't argue with you about it. This is an area I really do know about and I'm passing on to you that it's a very weak and unsustainable argument.
By the way, why the personal attack? A hobby of yours? If so, I now understand why you're so sad.
I threw out the outlandish price to encourage them to come up from their original offer. Had they made any movement whatsoever, I would have gone down. But they won't.
And by the way, the law does not mandate how a car is totaled. I've read the insurance code and much of the DMV code. While they allow a car to be totaled when the repairs exceed the Actual Cash Value, it does not mandate it. Frankly the code really doesn't mention much about the accident victims. Rather it's more geared towards settlement of claims when you're fighting your own insurance company.
Farmers offered ACV based on books and statistics. Per your original suggestion, I think an independent third party should determine the actual value. And that's a course of action I'm considering unless someone has a better idea.
And finally to all, if you think I'm a jackass and I'm getting what I deserve, that's fine. But please keep those opinions to yourself. Posting insults is a waste of time. I promise to be a good boy from here on.
Yep, get your car appraised and go into arbitration. You'll get more money that way. Of course you will have to pay the appraiser (about $250) plus 1/2 the arbitration fee (about $250). This presumes of course, that your appraiser will beat the appraisal value offered by Farmers.
If you can't find an appraiser to value your car higher (and you may have some trouble with that) then, aside from hiring an attorney, you're a dead duck I think.
Your car is desirable....to YOU...but not to the general public. Your car is a "hard sell" unless its cheap enough. Why? Because it's an old German car that is expensive to fix.
Now then------Since you were hit by a third party, with whom you have no insurance contract, you can sue the other insurance company even after arbitration. I don't think the arbitration would be binding in a 3rd party claim.
I suppose you could even sue the person who hit you after you get paid off by Farmer's. Not sure, that's a lawyer problem. I'm not playing attorney.
LAST OF ALL -- I would suggest not fixing a car that old that has sustained almost $10,000 damage.
The reason the insurance company doesn't want to fix it, as you probably know, is that they don't want to be hooked into unforeseen repairs, parts delays, etc. on a car that has obviously incurred substantial damage. Personally I wouldn't want to fix it either.
FYI, to get any check out of an insurance company one has to sign a statement confirming no future litigation. Such does not apply if suing the lady who hit me.
Thanks again. I appreciate your insights.
My car was rear ended by a truck (happened in Texas), I called the police they asked me to exchange the insurance details (Thats the only police record). I immediately contacted my insurance company, they advised me to go thru the other guys insurance as it is not my fault and i dont have rental on my plan.
The other guy's Insurance company estimated the damage and totaled the car, They are offering me 9920 dollars, my Insurance company is going by KBB value and offering me 10830$-100$ deductible= 10730 (800$ difference).
Questions:
A
If I go through my insurance and they subrogate from the other company
1) will it increase my premium?
2) Is there a chance for the other party to say that they are not at 100% fault in a later stage? as there is no police report
3) Is it fine...if I inform the other company what I'm getting thru my insurance and ask them for that amount? Am not sure if they will discuss each other and ask my insurance to pay me less (my insurance didnt take a look at my car,they are going by KBB value, but the other company has taken a look at my car and estimated the value). If they dont agree for that amount...any suggestions to handle this situation?
B
1) I recently spent some money on timing belt, tires, Battery etc for 1300$...they are offering me 100$ for the tires, but they rejected other expenses saying they are maintenance services. Is that so?
2) My new spare tire and wheel also got damaged...but they are saying those are included in the car price. Is that so?
3) Can they offer me any money for car rental to buy a new car?
Please advise me
Thx
A
1) No fault accidents SHOULD NOT increase your premium but you might check with your agent to be sure
2) If the other party's insurance is offering a settlement then obviously it has been determined they were at fault.
3) The two insurance companies cannot compare settlement offers. Not sure, but I think that's called collusion. So negotiate away. Work all angles.
B
1) Same problem I had. Seems the only way to fight that would be an independent appraisal. And there you'll spend at least $250 to get such and there's no guarantee the appraiser will agree. Or you can try arbitration. You'll have to balance the costs of proving your point verses what you're being offered.
2) Probably, but see B1 above.
3) That depends on Texas law. In California they must offer you $25 per day for "loss of use". You can take it in cash or you can use it towards a rental. Hopefully someone else can answer that question.
Nevertheless, best of luck and don't let the bast$$ds get you down. Fight 'em.
I did have one experience with an auto insurer, State Farm, when my wife was rear ended by a drunk driver, and they were great. We had just bought the vehicle a year prior and were upside down on the vehicle, but they paid everything off.
I like the option offered by Mr. Shiftright, get an independent arbitrator to do an appriasal and go to arbitration. Most likely the ins co won't agree unless it is binding. It may cost you a few hundred at most, but could be well worth it to you.
Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
Hey, where's marsha7 when you need him most?
To quote a famous song: "You have to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run"...I ran...
As far as totalling the car (breaking my own rule and jumping in where I am probably not wanted), I always thought it was up to the insurance company to set their own limit, usually between 75-85% of the value of the car...
Sentimentality has zero value, and fair market value will be set by a number of factors, KBB and NADA just being a few of them...
Not that I would take the side of the insurance company, but when you come right down to it, it is a wonder that our cars maintain any value at all, so we are lucky that we get as much as we do...
For comparison, buy a diamond for $1000 and see if you can get over $250 for it when you sell it...buy $1000 worth of furniture and see if you can get $100 for it a year later...buy a $500 pair of cowboy boots and see if anyone offers you $50 for it a year later...
Yet we all (me, too) expect that our cars should magically depreciate only 5-10% per year because we think that they are worth at 3 years almost what it was worth new...
It simply does not pay to repair something if the cost of repair is close to the value of the vehicle, it is easier to just total it and junk it...insurance companies process thousands of claims daily, and to expect them to see your car as a crown jewel is ridiculous...if it is listed in a database somewhere, they will determne its value from that...after all, IT'S ONLY A CAR, IT ISN'T YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD, but many take it personally because some adjuster tells them that their car was hardly worth what a boat anchor is worth, but so many of us have our egos wrapped up in them with custom wheels, chrome, when all they are is a piece of depreciating metal...
Years ago, ins companies used to try and find you a "similar" car...so if you had a 72 Impala with a 350, 4 door, power seats and A/C with AM/FM radio, they used to scour the countryside for a similar car...
But when they found one, it only had a 2 barrel carb, you had a 4 barrel...theirs had no power seats, but everything else matched, so it was unacceptable...theirs had 35000 miles but yours only had 20000 miles...theirs needed a brake job, but your brakes were in good shape...they finally realized that they could spend months searching for a similar car, and nobody was ever happy...
So, they defaulted to the most logical solution, esp as the auto population grew and more and more wrecks occurred daily...the simple answer was to total the car, pay you what it was worth, and close the file...the fact that your grandfather gave you that car for your 16th birthday really adds nothing to its value, but I have had clients that actually tell me they expect more because the car meant so much to them, as it came from Grandpa...I don't know whether to laugh or cry, as these people need a reality check...to actually think that someone will pay you an extra $500 or $1000 as tho Grandpa added any value to the car is absurd...
Sadly, they let those people vote, when they should be institutionalized...
Some of this is the way cars are pitched by ads and especially salespeople as being "investments." This is especially try for the chic models where they can play to the ego as well. As we all know, investments don't go down, or at least don't go down much; therefore the loss in value per year should be minimal in the owner's mind.
This plays into the "wunderkar" approach in thinking as to value.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-mike
The most "scientific" system was for real estate, with appraisers determining value by using "comparables", and they are the "science" by which a lender will loan money, because an outside authority said it was worth what they said it was worth...
Well, throw that out the window...condos that were built for $50K just a few years ago, were flipped and flipped again, suddenly "worth" $350K...Katrina hits, and they can't sell those condos for $100K, but numerous banks loaned $300K because some appraiser said they were worth it...
Builders here cannot sell their $400K new homes, so, they are NOT worth $400K as the market is the true determiner of value...
So, if real estate is that variable and tenous, how can anyone expect a used car to be valuable, when they depreciate like rocks, except for a famous few, but almost all cars probably do not have the value we want to think they do...so, when it is totalled, it is easy to see why insurance companies and policyholders are severely at odds, because even KBB, NADA, and Edmunds are based on wishin,' hopin, and prayin"...
I think it would have helped making your case on that web page were you to give a little background as to what led you to the point where things start. Because it starts with you already angry you don't come off well on it. Just editorial advice.
I certainly sympathize and, believe me, siding with an insurance company doesn't come easy for me.
Bob/marsha explains it well. I hate agreeing with him but sometime it is inevitable.
Take the settlement and go buy that car that Shifty is pointing you to.
Maybe we could get cars insured by Farmers some sort of identifying device so we know not to run green lights around them.
I am flattered...no, HUMBLED... :P
Sometimes even the blind pig can stumble on an acorn, so maybe that is my function in life...:):):):):)
When some fool knocked down my mailbox and dug up my lawn years ago I dealt with Nationwide. I called them up and told the claims person that I could either have the repairs done by a professional carpenter and landscaper OR I could fix it myself for $100.
The adjuster was both friendly and smart (knew my way would save them money). She said to take a few pictures and send them to her so she could verify the damage. I did and a week later a got my check. Easy peasy.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's pretty much how things went here in Florida when we got hammered with several back to back storms in 2004. I knew people that got hit hard and did all the work themselves: cut down and remove trees that were hit, fixed fences and their roofs, all the while getting paid somewhat close to the going rate for a professional to do the job.
Big hugs to all. I appreciate the opportunity to vent. And thanks to y'all and a new friend made at Craigslist (I posted the same message there), I think I have a plan of action that might work. It won't get me all that I want, but it will get me more. I'm suing the lady who hit me in small claims court. Not once but twice. First for the damages (small claims can award $7,500 wherein Farmers only offered just under $7,000 total) and then a second time for loss of use (perhaps another $750 to $1,000). Best part of all this is that I can keep the car without it be branded salvage. Once all is settled, I'm selling the car to a mechanic friend of mine. He wants to fix it for his wife. I'll then take all of the cash and head to Honda for a new Accord. It will be a nice car of which I'll not have any emotional attachment. Although someday I hope to love another car.
There does remain one question. How will Farmers respond to me suing their insured? If it encourages them to be more reasonable, great. I will now be happy to settle for $4,697,521,590,386.09 ;-)
Nevertheless, wish me luck and I'll keep y'all advised as this progresses. Thanks again.
Probably not much different, I'm sure it's happened to them before so they'll know how to handle it. They might up their offer a bit.
And you won't be able to sue them twice as any kind of payout whether they just settle up or you win in court will require you to sign something that eliminates future claims. That's pretty much standard legal practice.
Cut your losses and move on, life is too short.
This sounds like a grotesque game but sometimes it works. As for the ethics, I shrink in horror, but then the other side doesn't always play fair either.
The worst scenario is though when everyone would assume someday that everyone else is corrupt and then everyone jumps into the slime pit. This is sometimes called the Fall of Rome.
And let the bastards win???!!!??? You sound like my best friend. No, I've the time and I certainly have the gumption to see this thru.
I know my way around small claims court. I've been there and won twice. I'd like to think I know how to choose my battles. First time was my landlady who refused to refund my deposit and the second time against American Home Shield who tried to screw me out of new furnace. Such was covered by their home warranty policy but they insisted they would only pay for a cheaper unit that wouldn't fit. Jerks.
I agree life is too short. But a defeatist attitude allows life to march right over you. Yes, at the end of the day we're all dead. But the occasional victory reinforces my belief that, at times, life can be fair.
If Farmers coughs up enough for me to agree to settle, yes, there will be a signed release for all future claims or I don't get the check. Such does not apply in small claims court. I've two separate actions (damage and loss of use) and will file the second after the first is adjudicated. The court does not require the signature on any release. It just keeps you from suing for the exact same thing again.
I almost feel sorry for the lady who hit me. Because of her insurance company she's going to have court judgments on her credit record. Oh well, had she learned that red lights meant stop, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Right on!
I agree... sue the hail out of them.
True. That's why I won both times. But sadly some just can't see reason. Farmers is a good example.
In this case, the above statement is going to read:
"Because of my unreasonableness there is going to be court judgements on my credit record. Oh well, had I learned to accept her insurance company's fair offer, I wouldn't be in this mess."
If you turn down a fair offer from the insurance company, a Small Claims judge is going to jump on you with both feet I fear.
Best thing, get an appraisal on your car and submit it for settlement or arbitration and take any reasonable offer.
I can see where you have a right to small claims court, but what about her coverage by her insurance company? Does your right to small claims court void her right for the protection she is paying for?
Anyone have a valid answer to this one? Would it vary depending on different state laws?
given the natural bias of Small Claims court toward the consumer, having a snappily dressed lawyer berate the judge---well yeah, go shoot yourself in the foot why don't you? :P