Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

Mr_Shiftright

You could check a variety of online price guides, being sure to match mileage and condition and options if the guides allow you to do that online.

Then you sort of average all of them out and come up with a ballpark #.

Some guides are:

www.edmunds.com (click on "used cars")
www.kbb.com
www.nadaguides.com

These guides will NOT agree but they should be reasonably close. Keep in mind that "excellent" means a *very* sharp clean car. Most 8 year old cars are "clean" or "average". Very few are "oustanding".

Actually you should be glad it covered your loan. Some people don't end up that "whole".

fordfool

> I just found out my vehicle which was hit by a storm a few weeks ago, is deemed total loss.

> It's a 2000 5-speed Nissan Sentra…I'd like to just buy another used one

Depends upon the type of storm damage. If it's hail (or sand) damage and the repair would consist of removing hail dimples and repainting the car, then tell the insurance company that you'd like to keep the car. You will still receive the insurance payment less one or two hundred dollars for the salvage value of the car.

If there is water damage or a tree fell on the car, then take the full insurance claim and either buy another 2000 Sentra, making sure that the insurance pays for all of your costs including sales tax, dealer fees, etc.

Or use the insurance check as a down payment on as new a car as you feel comfortable with the payments.

> I got the value from the ins. agent and I just don't know if it's enough…Is there any way to know this?

Your car is worth what it would cost to replace it, say $5500 plus sales tax and dealer fees and minus the outstanding loan balance and minus the comprehensive deductible.

mikefm58

Try posting over on "Real World Trade In Values" on this site.

chuckie68

My 2007 Chrysler 300C was totaled last week. Somebody left-turned my wife. She had minor injuries, Thank God! The diver of the other car admitted it was his fault at the time of the accident, now he is singing a new tune. So, we decided to go through our insurance and letting them go after him.

So, here is were a need help:

The 300C was totaled by my insurance company. We had bought it NEW last Oct. (10 months old) for ~$33K. They offered ~$24K. I did some research and found that Edmunds.com and NADA value was around $27K - $27.5K. So i called and told them, they bumped their offer to up $400. to $25K. I told them that that was to acceptable. They played hard ball, and said that was all they could do. So i asked to talk to supervisor . I called and left a message. He never returned my call. However, 2 hours later, the adjuster called my back and offered $27K.

So here is my issue. The Chrysler 300C came with a Lifetime Warranty on the power train. If, I take the $27K and buy a used 300C I do not get the Lifetime power train warranty -- it is non-transferable. So i am basically out a lifetime warranty, which is why i bought the car to begin with. The adjuster said I was SOL, that the Lifetime warranty was an incentive and had no effect on the price of the car. which maybe true, but I am now out a lifetime warranty. He said they insure cars not warranties.

Do I have any recourse on the Lifetime warranty? If my insurance doesn't compensate, Can I go after his Insurance company?

What would make them jump from ~$25K to $27K so fast. Does the fact that the car is less than 1 year old factor into the value? It just seems strange that they would play hard ball and then jump the value up $2K.

Thanks for the help!

Mr_Shiftright

Well I think the idea, which makes sense, is that the fair market price of any vehicle reflects whatever factory warranty is on it. If people are indeed paying more for 300Cs because of their lifetime warranties, then this would show up in the used car market, which is driven by supply and demand.

So in other words, the insurance company is saying that their offer includes the value of the warranty.

While you are entitled to dispute their settlement, I would advise you to pursue that dispute based on market evidence (doing your own research or hiring an appraiser and going into arbitration), but not pursue it on the warranty argument---I just don't think that holds any weight.

As for the company boosting their initial offer, well, welcome to the insurance business.

You might try researching other price guides to see if they are any higher. There are some with a reputation for generosity that you have not explored.

houdini1

OK, here are a couple of things for you to consider:

1. I think you could make a good case to try and recover the sales tax you paid since the car was less than a year old, and

2. If your company pays, you may be faced with paying the collision deductible unless they waive it. Make sure they realize that you are aware that if they then recover from the other party you will want to be reimbursed for the deductible.

mikefm58

I believe in all states, the sales tax is always added on, I know it is in NY and Florida.

marsha7

FWIW, anytime you use your collision to pay for damages that is not your fault, it is common custom for your insurance to recover the full amount from the liability carrier...then, since they paid out $15,000.00 but your damages were $15,500.00, and they did recover the $15,500.00 they will routinely write you a check for your deductible...while it is always OK to remind them of anything you want, the refund of the deductible is SOP...

houdini1

I mentioned this because Chuckie is comparing what the insurer is offering him to the estimated values he is getting from Edmunds and others which does not include sales tax. If the est. value is $27,000. and the sales tax was 7% or around $2300. that changes the value to $29,300.

This is good info for Chuckie to have.

houdini1

FWIW, anytime you use your collision to pay for damages that is not your fault, it is common custom for your insurance to recover the full amount from the liability carrier...then, since they paid out $15,000.00 but your damages were $15,500.00, and they did recover the $15,500.00 they will routinely write you a check for your deductible...while it is always OK to remind them of anything you want, the refund of the deductible is SOP...

Sure it's common practice, and being in the insurance biz I am sure that you are aware that at times mistakes are made. It never hurts to be prepared and to look out after your own interests when negotiating a claim.

marsha7

Absolutely correct...mistakes can be made and reminding the adjuster is never a bad idea...

chuckie68

"You might try researching other price guides to see if they are any higher. There are some with a reputation for generosity that you have not explored."

The adjuster "warned" me not to use KBB. That their numbers where always too high, and was based on "asking" prices from dealers not actual deals. KBB value was just over $28K -- a thousand more than their best offer...

chuckie68

1. I think you could make a good case to try and recover the sales tax you paid since the car was less than a year old

So how do a go about that? I'm in a sales tax free state. But we do have to pay a 3.75% car tax. Which on $27K is close to $1K? do I just ask for that?

dvexpert

Chuckie68,

You are not getting the facts here. In a first party claim where your own insurance company is paying you have the right to collect for any and all losses not specifically excluded from your auto insurance policy in writing. Before the accident you had a full warranty on your car that could be honored at Chrysler dealerships regardless of where you reside or travel from one coast to the other. You paid this warranty coverage as a part of the sticker price when you bought your car. If you can't collect for the loss of warranty then you have lost the benefit of the bargain you held before the loss.

To resolve this I would encourage you to put the burden on the insurance company (in writing) to find you a like kind vehicle that has a full warranty. By doing this you are showing cooperation and basically saying, "I can't find a suitable substitute equal in every way to the car I had, so how about you all trying your luck?" Knowing that they can't find a car with a warranty either, they will have to pay you the value of the warranty. If they don't pay you they haven't fulfilled their end of the insurance contract to indemnify you of all your losses (excepting those that are excluded in your policy language). Their failure to hold up their end of the contract could leave them open to a bad faith lawsuit. I have never seen a policy exclusion for warranty and this loss is paid routinely in diminished value cases I am involved in.

Hope that helps.

David Williams
www.SafeCollisionRepairs.com
www.ConsumersGuideToAutoRepair.com

houdini1

I would definitely ask the adjuster about the tax. If he/she says it was already included then that means that they are possibly short changing you on the value of the car itself.

Also dvexpert raises some very good points about the warranty. I would listen to his advice.

bobsexton

I am dealing with a similar problem. I was involved in an accident that was not my fault. The other persons insurance totaled out my 93 Acura Legend. They first offered me $2800 and I complained. I told them I thought the vehicle was worth $6000. They did some more investigating and finally brought the offer up to $4000. They turned down some other expenses related to the accident. I filed a complaint with the NC Dept. of Insurance. Basically the findings state that the insurance company is not required to pay me anything, they are simply attempting to offer me money to avoid litigation that would involve their client. My insurance company will not help me because I did not have collision insurance on my vehicle.
By the way, the rep from NCDOI said that the insurance companies are tightening their belts, so guess who pays??

cccompson

How has the value of "this loss" (the value of Chrysler's lifetime non-transferable powertrain warranty) been calculated in the cases in which you've been involved?

dvexpert

Manufacturers know to the penny how much warranty costs on each model in their product line. While the exact dollar amount is never revealed by manufacturers for proprietary reasons, numbers are usually provided as a percentage of the sticker. It gets complicated sometimes because warranty for body, rust through, drive train, emissions etc have varying mileage and time limits that have to be considered. One also has to deduct for the time and mileage already used.

David Williams
www.SafeCollisionRepairs.com
www.ConsumersGuideToAutoRepair.com

dvexpert

It is YOUR burden to prove your loss. You'll probably have to hire and expert to establish this number for you. Then, it needs to be presented as a demand from the person who caused your damage, NOT his or her insurance company.

The at-fault party's insurance company is there to protect the negligent party from THEIR losses. It is not their job to protect you from your losses. You have no contract with the at-fault party’s insurer. To demand something from them will get you nowhere. The at-fault party’s insurance company will stall, lie, cheat etc - whatever it takes to make you go away and so it can protect its own policyholder from suffering losses.

While the at-fault party’s insurer has every obligation to deal fairly with their policyholder – the one they have accepted money from to protect - they have no obligation to you whatsoever. Don’t let that frustrate or discourage you. Even if the negligent party has no insurance they are still obligated to provide restitution to you for the damage they caused.

As for the DOI, its job is to protect the financial health and stability of the insurance industry - to see to it that funds are available to cover losses when they are owed. They are ineffective in policing the insurance industry because one can't levy fines and penalties against an entity it is sworn to protect the financial health and stability of.

A tort or a wrong has been committed against you. Lawyer and courts are the most effective means of settling these disputes. But again, you will have to sue the party that caused the damage, NOT his or her insurance company.

David Williams
www.SafeCollisionRepairs.com
www.ConsumersGuideToAutoRepair.com

cccompson

Saying that the manufacturer knows how much it costs doesn't much help the person whose car has been totalled. "Time limits" is not an issue here. Chrysler's warranty is relatively new and it's unlikely that even they know what their costs will be down the road (assuming that they will be around). Heck, they probably have yet to honor it even once!

Mr_Shiftright

If they offered you KBB pricing or very close to it, I'd take it. You can't do much better than that.

marsha7

KBB, NADA, and others are all approximate pricing, and that really depends on local markets...we are simply lucky that our used vehicles have any value at all, because if it was used jewelry, stereos, computers, or furniture, they are rarely worth more than 10-25 cents on the dollar 6 months after you buy them...

hilversum

Why would your car insurance increase when you remove one car from 3 cars covered on your policy ?

tidester

It may depend on who's driving those cars and their relative values. For example, if you had a teenager driving a clunker that you've gotten rid of and he/she is now driving your Bentley you might expect your premiums to rise. Or it could just be a coincidence that the premiums went up at the same time you removed one car.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

houdini1

Give us a little more info please and maybe we can help. Have you asked your agent?

euphonium

You got rid of the 3rd car that was driven by a youth who's grades dropped causing you to take away his driving privilege. That youth is now rated on one of the other two cars as an infrequent driver without a good student discount. Kids Cost.

chuckie68

If they offered you KBB pricing or very close to it, I'd take it. You can't do much better than that.

But Used car pricing does not include the LifeTime warranty which is NON-Transferable. So any used car pricing guides would not have this factored in. I found that I can purchase an lifetime extended warranty for $4K, would it be reasonable for them to include that in the settlement?

Mr_Shiftright

But you didn't pay anything extra for the lifetime warranty. How can you suffer a loss on something you did not pay for? And besides, you knew the warranty was not transferable when you bought the car---which is why a lot of people around here didn't bite on it. From my point of view it was little more than a marketing ploy.

I'm just not seeing the solid grounds for your argument here, although I do wish of course that you get a fair and just settlement.

mitzij

Is your $4000 'lifetime extended warranty' the same thing as Chrysler's 'lifetime limited powertrain warranty'?
I'm willing to bet 'no'. Two different sets of coverages, with different rules.

chuckie68

Isn't that like saying I didn't pay anything extra for the tires? If, for some reason you couldn't buy a car with tires, and therefore you would have to purchase the tires after buying a car, wouldn't that be a loss?

Mr_Shiftright

That's right. You didn't pay extra for the tires, and so you can't claim anything extra for them, unless you added value to the tires. You haven't added value to the warranty, it was included with the car. You have suffered no loss in my opinion, because the car and the Lifetime warranty went together. You lose the car (or sell it) and you lose the Lifetime drivetrain warranty. That was the contract.

I mean you could pitch this claim, this is your right, but I'm on the insurance company's side on this one. (which is rare, but it happens :P )

Besides, you could still buy a used 300C with remaining factory warranty, just not the Lifetime Warranty. You'd still get the remainder of 3 yr/36 mo.

mikefm58

Also, I would expect any value that is lost by a vehicle with that type of warranty to already be adjusted in its market value. This must be a real killer for some vehicles that are traded in that are almost new.

Mr_Shiftright

I really don't think loss of the Lifetime Warranty is reflected in used car values because nothing has been 'lost'. The warranty is not transferable, so ALL used Chrysler cars lose the warranty. The playing field is thus even. It's not like you can find a used Chrysler WITH the Lifetime and another without, so there is no supply and demand equation tweaking the market pricing.

mikefm58

Sorry for the confusion, but my point was comparing a new Chrysler with the lifetime warranty to an "almost new but used" Chrysler that now does not have the lifetime warranty.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, okay I see what you're saying.

But really, it's the original owner who owns the lifetime warranty, right, not the car all by itself. Without the original owner, the lifetime warranty doesn't exist in fact.

chuckie68

Doesn't matter how you slice it up. I am out a lifetime warranty. :mad: Because of an accident, that was not my fault. I guess that is just life in the fast lane...

Mr_Shiftright

Well as I said you can pitch your case, you have nothing to lose here. Maybe they will throw in some extra, I have no idea.

dvexpert

I would be interested in hearing how you think this consumer can be indemnified without payment for the warranty that cannot be purchased or reinstated. Is there no longer an obligation on the part of insurers to make consumers whole? What would you do if you were in charge of this claim?

euphonium

Tell me how much was paid for the warranty, date paid, and date of expiration & I will pro rate a return premium for the unused balance. If no payment was made, the situation is a non issue.

Upon breaking a mug of beer, how do you measure the value of the foam?

Mr_Shiftright

I would have to deny the specific claim for compensation of the warranty because there is no receipt for the purchase of a Lifetime Warranty. It's as much a part of the car as the paint.

However, insurance settlements can be somewhat arbitrary and are negotiable. As a claims settlement agent, I would give the consumer top dollar for a top notch car, and scale down accordingly. I'd try to make him whole for what he lost, but not for more than he lost.

Chrysler's "gimmicky" revocation of the Lifetime Warranty isn't my fault as the insurance company, seems to me.

wlbrown9

Only thing I can think of is that a multi-car discount decreased when insuring 2 cars instead of 3.

But that makes about as much sense and what I found out this week. Allstate insuring 2004 GMC Envoy XL & '00 Trooper, both with full coverage. I'm interested in buying a Saturn Outlook to replace the Trooper. My Allstate folks tell me that if I drop collision and comprehensive on the Trooper and add the Saturn at full coverage, my premium will either stay the same or go up $5-8 a month maximum. Since trade on the Trooper (137K miles) is probably less than $1500, I'm keeping the Trooper for dirty work :-). I had always assumed the cost to keep the 3rd vehicle even with only liability would be more than I wanted to pay.

euphonium

It may be more than you wanted to pay, but because in most states, Liability follows the vehicle. When you loan your car, you are also loaning your car insurance.

Just be sure the Liability ID card is is to find in the Glove box.

wlbrown9

Yes ot the insurance staying with the vehicle. If your name is on it you are responsible. Family (daughter or son and their spouse) would be about the extent of the vehicle loan. If one of their 2 is in the shop or one of our main vehicles, then the Trooper can fill in. I've decided I will probably drive the Trooper to work maybe 1 day a week...40-45 miles and the golf course on weekends (especially during sweat weather). I've been driving 17K miles a year on the Trooper...if I can put 4-5K miles on the Trooper and keep the Outlook in the 12 or 13K mile range and avoid extra deduction for high mileage, that will make it worthwhile to keep it.

mypoorcar

I was in a car accident recently in my 2006 Toyota Corolla. I was told by the insurance company that it is worth $14,000 and that my damage is $11,800. The other insurance company was convinced that my car was totaled, along with a few other friends that work on cars. I do not feel comfortable driving myself and my 1 year old son in a car that has suffered significant damage. Does anyone have any advice on how I can get the insurance company to total my car or any suggestions about my situation?
Thank you!!

euphonium

The other insurance company was convinced that my car was totaled,

What prevents you from dealing with "the other insurance company"? They & you both say "total"..

Mr_Shiftright

You need to re-check these figures with your insurance company. In my opinion, no insurance company in its right mind would actually put $12,000 in repairs into a car with a market value of $14,000. Something must have gotten mixed up in communication here.

Anyway, if you were hit by another party and they were at fault, let the other insurance company total it.

hello7

I have a 2001 BMW 325I with 90000 miles on. I had an accident about 3-4 years ago which cost about $7500 to fix. I got into another accident a few days ago and Mercury recommended body shop is quoting $7800 for the repair; it took them 3 business days to get me a quote with a tear down. In my knowlege, KBB vaue for my car is about $9000 at best unless I'm mistaken. But the insurance adjuster who recommended the shop is pushing for the repair. Body shop is saying that I already approved the repair when I dropped off the car by signing their forms without the estimate. Everything appears too shady. Do I have a right to demand the $7800 from Mecury and have my car back? I might as well donate it or junk it and use the money toward a new car. My adjuster did not answer the questions today. She just said she will have the body shop contact me. Does this sound right to anyone? Why is she forcing me to fix it? Help!

kyfdx

Is the adjuster from your insurance company?

If you would be happy with $9K for your car, then there is no way they should be doing a $7800 repair to it. I'd call the body shop immediately, and tell them that you have NOT authorized repairs.

If Mercury is your insurance company, I'd get on the phone to your local agent, ASAP, and tell them you are getting the run around. You need to stop the process, until you get answers.

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

Mr_Shiftright

This may even be illegal in your state. It's called 'steering' and in California it is against the law. You can have your car fixed at any body shop you choose presuming the insurance company agrees to the estimate. You can also choose not to have the car fixed and just take the money settlement. If they total the car though and pay you for it, they own it, not you, unless you buy it back from them. Also you have to pay the deductible. If the accident wasn't your fault, and your insurance company ends up in subrogation with another insurance company, you have the right to reclaim your deductible.

You are being bullied. Don't stand for it. Call your state insurance board if they keep stalling you.

euphonium

"I already approved the repair when I dropped off the car by signing their forms without the estimate."

Is not your signature on their forms binding? Are you Second guessing your decision?

Nobody including the Body Shop is doing any forcing. You approved the repair by signing forms.

The insurance company & body shop is relying on your signature of permission. :confuse: