Kia Sorento

paisan

My buddy is back from being out sick for 2 months @ the Kia dealer in SI, I'll talk to him and find out when they'll be coming off the intial high prices for yah.

-mike

bigelm

I'd appreciate that. That would at least give me some leverage as to which way I will go. I really want the Sorento and I will lease it for the wife. It's still my first option.

Thanks.

anonymous02

SI? Sports Illustrated has their own town now?

;-)

(hopefully, full of January issue ladies!)

bigelm

at least not in Staten Island... LOL!!! ;-p

paisan

Have I told you to go.... yourself today? hee hee

Back on topic, I'm not sure you are gonna do well with a lease on a sorento, the residual values will be horrible, especially on a first year product.

-mike

bigelm

...well, that's what I need to see. Maybe one of their lease offers when holidays come in... just weighing options ;-)

I don't plan on buying the vehicle once the lease is up, so.... maybe that'll help, I don't know.

steve_on

Question about the new Sorento.

Can any owner report on RPM/MPH numbers.

Like RPM @ 60 MPH

RPM @ 70 MPH

RPM @ 80 MPH

Trying to get a feel for what the noise levels are like at freeway speeds, I do about 100 miles round trip per day, mostly freeway.

anonymous02

Why not just take one on a test drive?

That is what test drives are supposed to be for.

steve_on

Well thank you for "helping" me figure that out, and yes I have test driven one. I tend to not focus on things like RPM and most dealers in my area like to stick to surface streets.

anonymous02

You are kidding, right?

When I test drive, I TEST DRIVE!

That means panic stops on the freeway 70-0, acceleration 0-100, cornering, fording snowy streams, cornrows at 10-25 MPH, climbing mountains, loading boxes, etc., etc., etc.

Put that puppy through its paces.

diploid

I've actually had the experience of being able to test drive a vehicle without the dealer. Usually the larger dealerships allow it.

paisan

I refuse to buy from a dealer that won't let me give it a good workout. For my $20-$30K they better!

-mike

anonymous02

Meaning what? That they don't ride along with you?

I have only been for two test drives where they don't just throw you the keys and say "take it out".

paisan

where they just tossed you the keys... Then again I live in NYC. People would be driving away with them left and right.

-mike

jmatero

That is so bizzare because I drove 2 Sorrentos this weekend and on my way back home, spotted the Outlander parked in front of Mitsubishi.... and took a look...

I have to tell you, the ride and handling are VERY different on the two. The Outlander drives like a car and is very quiet and comfortable. Also, the dash is very rich looking and the ride height is perfect... you slide right in. I was totally shocked because I haven't read much about it other than it being attacked for having 'only' 140hp. But while not as powerfull as the Kia V6, it was no slouch. The motor makes a lot of twisting power down low... HP is not the only number to look at here... this motor is torquey. My CEO (that's really funny!!!) likes the look of both but since we NEVER go off road and are looking for something good in snow and rain, the idea of full-time AWD for around $20,000 tilts us in the favor of the Mitsubishi. Not to say the Kia is a bad vehicle.... it's awesome... but unless you NEED 4WD LOW, there is no real advantage to the vehicle.... particularly at $27000 by the time you add the Outlander's features and ABS. I didn't even know the Mitsubishi was out honestly and 140hp sounds low but it handles a lot better than the kia and the CEO and I didn't find it underpowered at all. It seems like the reviewers nowadays trash anything that can't do 0-60 in 6 seconds. it's worth a look.

bigelm

Thanks for your feedback... I may be paying a visit to Mitsu just for the heck of it. I know for one, my CEO (LOL!) won't be off-roading and she's very picky about comfort and not performance. Which like I said before, I don't mind because it will be HER vehicle, though I would be tossing it around sometimes ;-)

The 140HP makes it sound sluggish and not worth a look, but I've been reading (and you also) that the torque makes up for it kicking in at 2500RPM. Kia Sorento is good and have come to kick butt, but I'm still debating on price. We'll see... I'll give my feedback once I test drive. So Kia, any AWD option coming...?

paisan

Do I have to tell you people the SORENTO HAS AWD. WHen you order the TOD option you get FULL-TIME AWD!!!!!

-mike

bigelm

Where's your volumn??? Somebody calm this Italian guy down.... LOL!!!

I forgot about the TOD (whatever that means)... Anyway, the 4WD and AWD w/TOD is confusing.......care to explain?!

paisan

4wd on the Lower Model = RWD or 4wd HI or 4 Low
TOD on the upper/middle model = RWD or 4wdTOD or 4 Low

On the TOD models you can have it in RWD exclusively or if it's in TOD mode you have AWD, where the transfer case will put 15% power to the front wheels >5mph and will vary it up to 50/50 torque split (similar to the subaru AT AWD system, except with a RWD bias instead of the subaru FWD bias)

Also anytime slippage is detected it will shift the power as well (so below 5mph it will shift if there is slippage)

4 Low on the TOD model locks it in 50/50 split and gives you low range.

So TOD mode = AWD mode with a std 15/85 torque split and will vary up to 50/50 split.

-mike

carspy01

I just read your postings, and I am really tickled that you liked my expressions so much!!!
What a wonderful world!!! I guess those will stick with you, ey???

Best regards from my wife, the CEO,
yours very truly,
carspy01
Executive Vice President of Garbage Disposal

bigelm

I've used similar 'titles' as well but Garbage Disposal... damn, what a dept? :-)

Ok....back to subject:

Thanks Paisan for the detailed info. Question... what does TOD mean? I understand the concept but does the letters have any definition?

bored

steve_on

I just got back from looking at a Sorento in Simi Valley CA., dealer there is smoking some good stuff.

How's about $390 for a Wax Job
$390 for Interior protection
$350 Insurance policy, in case your car is stollen, they pay $2500 towards the deductable, what a DEAL!

How about the Trailer hitch, the KIA branded one with a retail price of $375, for such a deal, $780.00

There was some other stuff that they had stuck on like bug defectors and other stuff, also way over priced.

All up about $2500 worth of "stuff".

Sales guy did say they are about three weeks behind on shipments, which is how long the docks were closed.

I don't care how good a car is, I don't and won't buy one from dealers that try this stuff, tells you what they will be like in the future.

steve_on

Why buy a Kia Sorento?

Consideration 1) You buy a Kia for the perceived value/price ratio. Lots of features, lower cost than the mainstream makers, with probably a lower resale value and some amount of risk the company will be around in 5/10 years and that the car is a quality built product.

An EX 4x 2 Sorento with all the goodies stickers for ~$24,000, fits the value/price requirement.

10/100,000 mile warranty address to some extent the protection of your investment over the “Long Haul”….LOL.

Consideration 2) Kia Resale value will not be the same as the major makers, real or just perception KIA’s don’t hold value like a Honda, or other brands. This may change over time, but that’s reality today.

Consideration 3) GM and Ford are pretty much blowing out their cars, low finance and better resale value than KIA along with some good deals on SUV’s right now. Cars Direct shows an Envoy nicely loaded for ~$30,000, or $5,000 more than a Sorento at sticker.

Seems KIA dealers are getting greedy and blowing the best selling point of the KIA, more bang for the buck.

I really like the Sorento, but West Coast dealers are making it really hard for me to take the risk by buying a KIA. Close to invoice, yep, overpriced by greedy dealers, I don’t think so, the risk/reward ratio is just not good.

Anyone ?

diploid

Hyundai dealers did the exact same thing with the Santa Fe - I know cause I looked at one.

They become just as bad as the Honda dealers once they realize they have something that people will pay a premium for.

steve_on

I guess it's the bigger fool thing going on. If the bigger fool will pay the price, then the dealers were right.

The free market at work...sigh.

saber86

I have come to realize its not particular brand but more particular vehicle. I checked the local kia dealer again tonight and they have couple of ex thats been sitting on the lots for at least 2 months now. I can tell by looking at the state inspection sticker how long they have been on the lot. They are still not discounting and want msrp. I check several other dealers in dallas/fort worth area and they all want msrp or above.

I went thru santa fe and elantra Gt board and looks like they played the same game when they first came out. Most of the kia dealers are multi brand vehicle dealer so I don't think its specific kia dealer related. I have said it in the past, as long as dealers sense they can get msrp or above, they will not budge until market conditions change.

If you can afford to wait than just wait until they start discounting. The vehcile is still new so I think most dealers are still testing the market.

On a side note, anyone else notice just how ugly the steel wheel and tires are on the LX version?

steve_on

"Just say No"

alamode

Test drove a 4X4 LX this afternoon. Pushy salesman directing me where to take it and turn, etc. but anyway I'm curious about my experience with the ride. It seemed VERY harsh -- by that I mean I felt every crack, seam, dip, piece of dirt, rock, etc. in the road ... EVERYTHING! Now, I've owned an Explorer, leased a Blazer and at various times rented Pathfinders and Troopers and none of them has ever felt this harsh (and I've taken all four of them way off road too).

With my experience on asphalt and concrete I'm concerned about what a harsh experience I would encounter if I were to take a Sorento off of pavement! The thing was so bad that after ten minutes I even started to feel a little queasy....

Has anybody else experienced a harsh ride in one?

Oh, the dealer had about $2000 in rustproofing and scotchgarding which was described as "Group A" on the dealer's window sticker. Didn't even both trying to haggle based on my ride experience and I just don't deal with those kind of salesmen. Basically, I stopped by to check the vehicle out and go for a test ride.

Will look to lease or purchase in late December or early January -- could be a Sorento, or something else. By the way, the salesman claimed that Kia does not offer a lease program.

paisan

That is what you want offroad. If you car is mooshy offroad you won't be able to rock crawl or hold loads.

-mike

anonymous02

$60 for a carnauba wax job here.

I'd not pay more than $100-120 for a hitch, installed. I bought a new bumper with integrated receiver hitch, for less than $200!

anonymous02

I still can't believe it. The dealer not only came with you on the test ride, but TOLD YOU WHERE TO TURN? I'd tell him or her where to go. I assume you didn't take it offroad, then?

paisan

For a hitch. I got mine for $120 shipped from JC whitney so installation should be ~$200 total. Not including wiring and tounge

-mike

jmatero

I don't know about Italy, but AWD on the Sorento is not available in the U.S. The Kia site doesn't mention it. Nor does Edmunds, KBB, Carpoint or auto-by-tell. Even the dealer told me that it's 2WD or 4WD but no AWD. That being the case, there is no model that's helpfull to non-offroaders who want good rain/snow traction so it's not a viable option when shopping. NOW in the south or in warmer climates, this isn't an issue as long as you're ok with Rear wheel drive. Maybe they'll offer AWD here in the future,but only if it's a hit because if a loaded model is $27,000, AWD is going to cost at least $500-1000 more and now you're talking about a Kia approaching $30 g's and THAT'S a tough sell.

paisan

You are just wrong.

TOD = AWD TOD IS available in the US.

Go to Kiasorento.com Look under the Luxury package. It clearly lists TOD AWD there.

-mike

diploid

It's all marketing. And of course the dealer will say it's 4WD - if it's going to help sell the car, he'll tell you it's 4WD.

Look up a Honda CR-V on Edmunds and you'll see it's listed as 4WD too. But it's really 2WD, not even AWD, as power shifts from the front wheels to the back wheels, but never are the 4 wheels all spinning at the same time.

paisan

By the way I live in NYC.

-mike

anonymous02

I think I'll take Paisan's word on that one.

Besides, what's the problem with RWD/4WD anyhow? I live in Taxachusetts. If you start slipping so bad in RWD, shift it into 4WD.

The TOD just does this for you automatically. No problem! (Alf.)

01r1

(a bit off-topic, I'll keep it short)
diploid - I'll have to disagree about the CR-V. It's normally front wheel drive, until front slippage occurs (relative to back) and the Real-Time 4wd system delivers torque to the rear wheels in addition to the front wheels. There is no mechanism to stop torque from going to the front wheels. The only variable is how much torque goes to the rear.

I've confirmed this myself, stuck in deep snow, front and back tires spinning at the same time.

paisan

The TOD just does this for you automatically. No problem! (Alf.)

That's not the case. What TOD does is put 15% power to the front wheels once you start moving, this way you are less likely to slip in the first place. The std torque split on TOD is 15/85 and it will use clutch plates in the transfer case to vary it up to 50/50 depending on which axle has more traction. The Sorento also has a rear LSD which will apply the power to the rear wheel that is not slipping.

-mike

stever

One dealer here backs onto a residential neighborhood. The neighbors complained so the city passed an ordinance and now you can't test drive in that area, but have to take the main feeder street elsewhere.

Some insurance companies dictate where test drives can occur and what streets and intersections to avoid. Your salesperson may have just been following the rules (and could have saved everyone some grief by saying so if this was the case).

Everyone all over Town Hall is jumping on salespeople today, but you only have to put up with them a few hours. I'd suggest ignoring the crap and focus on the car until you decide to talk numbers, or just ask for a different person to help you.

/rant

Steve, Host

jmatero

That's correct, 4WD and AWD are NOT the same thing. You cannot drive a car in 4WH or 4WL on dry pavement as the front and rear wheels are locked and are forced to rotate at the same speed (a problem when turning the wheel....) AWD has a clutch or coupling that allows the front and back axels to operate independently of eachother, therefore, allowing use on dry, wet, snowy, sandy... all kinds of surfaces. My Friend's Infiniti QX4 has the best of all worlds... a switch on the dash that has 4 settings: 2WD, AWD, 4WD HI and 4WD LOW. Sorry "Italy Guy" about the TOS thing....it's just that Kia and reviewers do NOT mention this as a feature or advantage of this vehicle. Also, the only way to get it is by purchasing the EX with luxury package bringing the cost to the upper-edge. That being the case, my point still stands: there are a dozen similarly sized vehicles with AWD for $18,000- low $20's. $27,000 for a Kia Sorento with AWD is a LOT of money when you can get CR-V's, Santa-Fe's, Escapes and others for thousands less... and they all have independent suspension and are front wheel drive primarily. Again, the only reason people would be attracted to the Sorento would be if they NEED 4WD LOW which the other small suv's don't offer. Agian, the Sorento is a great vehicle... I think it's great looking... but unless you spend High $20's you have a Rear Wheel Drive truck that you can throw into 4WD in bad snow storms.

anonymous02

"Some insurance companies dictate where test drives can occur and what streets and intersections to avoid. Your salesperson may have just been following the rules (and could have saved everyone some grief by saying so if this was the case)."

Streets? I thought you were talking about test driving SUV's here!

;-)

And what choice does the dealer have anyhow, when he's sitting behind his desk and you are out on the test drive?

anonymous02

"That's correct, 4WD and AWD are NOT the same thing."

OK. With you so far....

"... You cannot drive a car in 4WH or 4WL on dry pavement as the front and rear wheels are locked and are forced to rotate at the same speed (a problem when turning the wheel....)"

Why would you WANT TO put it in 4hi or 4 lo on dry pavement? You lost me on that one.

"...CR-V's, Santa-Fe's, Escapes and others for thousands less... and they all have independent suspension and are front wheel drive primarily."

Yeah, but those are a totally different CLASS of vehicle. They have no low range, and the independent suspension is a liability, not a plus for serious SUV work. Front wheel drive is another minus. What kind of towing capacity again?

jmatero

Again... if you go off road, fine...but most people who purchase SUV's DON'T take them off road. The reason I mentioned dry pavement is this: AWD is active all the time. If there's light rain, patches of snow..... ONE wheel slips on a patch of ice..... there are sand drifts by the shore on the road, .... all reasons AWD is great for general driving as it is on all the time and reacts instantly. You can't use 4WD High in these situations. In fact, driving a 4WD vehicle in 4WD High in the rain is actually dangerous as the front and rear wheels can lose traction as the vehicle is steered left or right.

Now, if you go off road alot, well, 4WD is the vehicle for you. But if you don't... and like I said, most don't (they drive on the road like any other car) then independent suspension and Front wheel drive are awesome as you get a car-like ride. As for independent suspension, ask owners of 2003 explorers, expeditions and navigators about their ride vs. the ride of 2001 models. On the Road, drive an explorer vs a trailblazer. The Chevy is great but the Explorer handles like a car.

AGAIN... if you need off-road capabilities, there is no substitution for 4WD... AWD is ok but not in extreme situations. However, if you drive on the road, maybe a light trail, some sand..... but mostly road.... the Sorento (or any other truck without AWD and Independent suspension) is not the best choice.

anonymous02

"Again... if you go off road, fine...but most people who purchase SUV's DON'T take them off road."

I see it differently than you on that one...

"... The reason I mentioned dry pavement is this: AWD is active all the time. If there's light rain, patches of snow..... ONE wheel slips on a patch of ice..... "

So? There are 3 others holding you to the road. If it is a drive wheel, just put it in 4wd to get unstuck. I don't require 4wd or even awd for rain! (rolls eyes)

"...all reasons AWD is great for general driving as it is on all the time and reacts instantly."

Haven't really been in those kind of in between situations. You either need it or you don't. I usually wait until I am spinning in 2wd and then go to 4hi. If the road is dry, I'm not spinning.

"... and like I said, most don't (they drive on the road like any other car) then independent suspension and Front wheel drive are awesome as you get a car-like ride."

So, why not just get a car then? Or 4wd van? You get all the benefit, and better space use and better MPG. ?????

"As for independent suspension, ...but the Explorer handles like a car."

Because it IS basically a car. (rolls eyes again!)

paisan

There are a few other reasons to get a Truck like the sorento v. Car like the cute-utes...

It has a FRAME so you can put more weight on it, it will handle a towing load better, it will put up with city street abuse better etc. It's wider than the cute-utes. Higher ground clearance.

-mike

paisan

Is similar to the QX4 one you mention. It's the best of both worlds. 4-low for the real grungy stuff, and AWD for dry pavement and the not-so nasty stuff.

If you don't want a truck, then don't look at the Sorento.

-mike

bored

"Again, the only reason people would be attracted to the Sorento would be if they NEED 4WD LOW which the other small suv's don't offer."

The Sorento is NOT a small SUV. It is a Midsizer packaged in a smaller wrapping, kind of like what Dodge did with the Durango, only the Durango is slightly bigger.

schip1

We purchased a 4x2 EX on Monday, from a dealer and salesperson who treated us professionally, cordially, and fairly. The dealership is Florin Road Nissan-KIA in Sacramento and our salesperson is Sean Fowler. The included options are: ABS, luxury package, auto load leveling, and spoiler. Our cost (before tax & license) is $24,302, which is $1,033 below MSRP of $25,335, arrived at by adding $500 to invoice.

A few days ago, some of the people bashing dealerships were reflecting nostalgically on the ‘good-old-days’, when every new car came with a full tank of gas. Well, right there on the window sticker, on the left hand side as the last line under “Standard Features”, in bold type and upper case letters, is this notation: “EVERY NEW KIA INCLUDES A FULL TANK OF GASOLINE”.

After spending less than 3 days with our new Sorento, I can say that it is everything we expected……AND MORE!